Bad service at Paxton in KC

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:10:39 -0600, "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote:

Have you try Liberty Hardwoods, Inc. in 7200 Truman Rd.? MO?
I believe they are more friendly and flexible in their pricing. Their
phone number toll-free 1-888-908-0852 and local number is
1-816-231-0852.

I am NOT from Liberty Hardwoods, but a satisfied customer.

>I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood and
>some oak crown molding.
>
>They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
>expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
>oak. I decided to pass.
>
>What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of the
>plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was closed on
>Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
>that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before. He
>told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he could
>do.
>
>They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
>They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
>them.
>
>I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go to
>their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the molding I
>wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for oak.
>I won on both counts.
>
>Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
>
>Rob
>
>



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Oops... I forgot they also make free delivery if you buy more than
$350. Furthermore, they sell Mexico or China made compatible Accuride
slide for a ridiculous low price.

>I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood and
>some oak crown molding.
>
>They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
>expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
>oak. I decided to pass.
>
>What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of the
>plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was closed on
>Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
>that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before. He
>told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he could
>do.
>
>They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
>They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
>them.
>
>I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go to
>their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the molding I
>wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for oak.
>I won on both counts.
>
>Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
>
>Rob
>
>



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On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:45:48 -0500, "Tbone" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Why the argument?

Like I say earlier, if you live in KC just go to Liberty Hardwood, in
Mo. I know they are cheaper and the sales people are friendlier.

>Not to just jump in but IIRC, the OP said that your salesman simply stated
>that "we don't do that on Saturday" without even looking to see if the item
>requested was accessible while following union rules. If that is the case,
>then you might want to have a talk with your employees. I guess that my
>question is if you don't keep some supplies of the more popular items in
>your warehouse where they can be reached on a Saturday, why do you bother
>opening?



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On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:07:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>how ridiculous for say a set of 24"s?

For 24" - $5.35 and 28" - $5.95.
Why pay more when you don't need to?

>
>WD wrote:
>
>> Oops... I forgot they also make free delivery if you buy more than
>> $350. Furthermore, they sell Mexico or China made compatible Accuride
>> slide for a ridiculous low price.



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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:35:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

I have purchased them before and they are just as good as the REAL
ones. I will be getting more of the other sizes as I need it to
complete many tool cabinets in my garage and sewing room in the
basement for my wife. Their red oak, 4/4 FAS is only $2.15bf and their
Lauan plywood is cheaper than the Home centers here. In fact I get all
my plywood there now.


>that's a good price if they are on a par with the quality of the KV's I
>get for $10 a pair for 24".
>
>dave
>
>WD wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:07:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>how ridiculous for say a set of 24"s?
>>
>>
>> For 24" - $5.35 and 28" - $5.95.
>> Why pay more when you don't need to?
>>
>>
>>>WD wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oops... I forgot they also make free delivery if you buy more than
>>>>$350. Furthermore, they sell Mexico or China made compatible Accuride
>>>>slide for a ridiculous low price.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:51:34 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>whine, whine, whine...the store could ALSO choose to be closed on
>Saturdays so the employees could spend time with their families. There
>are always going to be disgruntled shoppers no matter what. As long as
>a store serves the needs of the bulk of the paying customers, then they
>will thrive.
>
>Neither my wife nor I currently belong to a union, but because of
>unions, we have a decent standard of living as wages are based on
>matching the salaries of the union shops. There's two sides to every
>story, Clif. :)
>
>dave
>

Yes Dave, the store could close on Saturday, then this topic would NOT
have been under discussion. My complaint was that although the store
was "open for business", the union was able to DICTATE to the business
owners what sort of business they could be open FOR.

As far as comparable salaries go, if you depend on someone else to
bargain FOR you, even by proxy, you are not truly free to earn as much
as you might otherwise be able to. In my profession,
consulting/IT/business change management, I have been able to work
diligently enough to earn several hundreds of thousands each year.
Pretty good for a person with a Loyala Univ Info Systems Bachelors
degree.

One does NOT need to belong to a union to earn a "decent standard of
living wage", he or she just needs to be as LAZY as your typical union
EMPLOYEE. Remember, a 40 hour workweek is for 1) losers and 2) those
who do not desire to make as much as they are able to earn.

Clif

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:40:56 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Gee, that's too bad you can only make a couple hundred thou a year while
>working overtime to boot. Glad I'm not you!
>
>dave
>
>

Gosh Dave, A poor attempt at humor from a guy who does not even bother
to accurately understand the contents of a message to which he is
replying. I said "several hundred thousand" Not a couple. in any
case, "overtime is a concept invented for the non business owners,
just ask anyone who owns and operates a business that he/she has
started what hours they work. Only EMPLOYEES and the dumb masses look
at each and every hour as a goal in and of themselves. To an OWNER,
the goal is success.

Oh, by the way, I too am glad you are NOT me, I couldn't stand myself
for being a sheeple such as yourself.

Clif

Remember, TANSTAAFL, There Ain't No Such Tthing Aas A Free Lunch
R.A. Heinlein, in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress

I STILL say be glad they are open on Saturdays! If you want something
that may not be accessible call in advance so you don't waste your time
and increase your blood pressure. SOLVE the problem, instead of merely
whining about how the store is out to inconvenience you.

I love In & Out burgers, but if I don't ask for my burger "well done" it
invariably is too pink for my liking. Rather than complain about how
they can't cook a burger properly, I just ask for it well done when I
order. THAT'S problem SOLVING instead of COMPLAINING.


dave


dave

Clif wrote:

> Ah, dave and rob,
>
> I have never said I wanted everything, just the same accessibility to
> marketable goods WHENEVER the retail location was open without having
> to hear, as a customer how "union rulkes" forbids employees that are
> properly trained from doing the job. What job you might ask, the job
> of the business to sell merchandise.
> All the rest of your discussion aside, it IS apparrent that, at least
> at that paxton's location, the management believes more in serving the
> employees than in serving the customer.
>
> Clif
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:09:04 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Alex, just ignore Clif. He's a loose cannon with little concept of how
>>to run a business. Any reasonable person would understand the concept
>>of not getting everything they want, when the want it, at a price they
>>want to pay, at a location of their choosing, as nothing more than the
>>childish "me, me, me" attitude that it is. Let HIM start up a similar
>>business and see how far he can take his concepts.
>>
>>dave
>>
>>Alex wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Clif;
>>>
>>> It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
>>>use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
>>>policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
>>>and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
>>>cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
>>>he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
>>>discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
>>>of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
>>>is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
>>>As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
>>>you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
>>>advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
>>>make sure that what they need is available.
>>> We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
>>>to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.
>>>
>>>Alex
>>>ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!
>>>
>>>Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>>>>machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
>>>>act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
>>>>satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
>>>>the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>>>>go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>>>>there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>>>>business.
>>>>
>>>>Clif
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
Clif <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, I'll give you the point for having to go out of my way to solve or
>prevent a potential problem for myself, now, why does the store
>management make certain that when they choose to be open, they ensure
>there is adequate, properly trained staff available to retrieve items
>that they sell?

"The answer to *any* question that starts off "why don't they..." is _always_
'money'." -- Robert A. Heinlein.

I expand on this later..

> Why make a potential customer responsible for doing
>what a business should do as a matter of service?

The answer is simple: Money.

> Especially when a
>customer cannot be expected to know what items the store CHOOSES to
>make inaccessible on SOME operating days.
>
>That is my primary problem with this entire discussion, that you and
>others see nothing wrong with a store not serving their customers
>appropriately.

"Appropriately" by _your_ definition.

Maybe we feel that "access to _some_ of the products" on Saturday
is better than "access to *none* of the products" on Saturday -- which
would be the situation if the store was _closed_ on Saturday.

> Appropriately defined as having items the store has in
>stock and available on a "weekday" not be available merely because
>some employee cannot be bothered to go get it for him.


You're a liar. (Since you've chosen to be inflammatory in your mis-
statements of fact, I'll be equally inflammatory in my accurate statements.)

It was *not* "some employee cannot be bothered to", it was "the employee
was NOT ALLOWED, by corporate policy, to". "Management" made that clear,
and you have acknowledged reading that statement from 'management'.

Thus, you have materially, and *KNOWINGLY*, _mis-stated_ the facts. In
other words, you lie.


Of course, if one takes what you wrote 'literally', and -not- as 'what
you meant, not what you said', Then your *entire* argument collapses
into nonsense. To wit:

You defined "appropriately" as:

... having items the store has in stock and available on a "weekday"
_NOT_ be available merely because some employee cannot be bothered
to go get it

Now, by *your* definition of "appropriately"< the store in question _is_
serving their customers "appropriately".

Yet, _you_ "see something wrong with this", apparently.

You demand that they serve their customers 'appropriately', and object
to actions that meet your declared definition of appropriately.

> Rob stated
>that it is not a matter of training, eliminating the "safety" excuse,
>just citing company "policy". A company with a policy that shows its
>disregard for its customers, interesting.

A company that is 'fiscally responsible' -- as it is *required*by*law*
to be, on behalf of it's stockholders.

The economics of the situation *are* simple:

Staffing the 'yard' on Saturday *costs*more* than the additional income
generated.

Staffing the 'office' on Saturday brings in *more*revenues* than the
additional costs incurred by being open on Saturday.

Believe it or not, 'serving the convenience of the customer' is *secondary*
to serving the stockholders. *USUALLY*, the two goals are mutually consistent,
but, _when_there_*is*_a_conflict_, serving the stockholder's interest *does*
take precedence. Otherwise, you're in the situation of the guy "who gave
discounts till the day he went broke."

Clif wrote:

> That is my primary problem with this entire discussion, that you and
> others see nothing wrong with a store not serving their customers
> appropriately.

About the only thing you can do is vote with your feet. I did that when a
local computer store charged me 15% restocking fee to literally put the item
on the shelf right by the cash register. (1) The clerk didn't even have to
move his feet. That was, um, two printers and four computers ago, and they
didn't get any part of it.. They chose their policy; I chose mine.

-- Mark

------------------

(1) I knew that was their policy but I thought we had an agreement. I
needed a video card but when I got to the store I couldn't remember 100%
sure the chipset needed. To save a trip I bought one of each, and I had the
firm impression I could bring the wrong one back when convenient for full
credit.

O
>
>It seems Clif is looking for a place to rant. He was offered a nice
>explanation by Alex. But for self-centered Clif...."AS LONG
>AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted" it is all about him! If a store is
>open on Saturday it means that everybody in the store must jump to his
>every whim! And if they don't he must have someone to blame! Never mind
>the fact that Paxton is well known for their service. Never mind the fact
>that the rules, whether union or not, are there for the safety of the
>workers. (How would you like to leave your normal work area, go to a dark
>warehouse, finally find the keys to an unfamiliar forktruck and maneuver
>several hundred pounds of plywood 25 or 30 feet over your head while
>knowing that other customers are waiting for you and nobody else in the
>store knows you are in the warehouse or will come to see if you need
>help.)
>You see, basically this is a human rights issue. But Clif is the type of
>person who is too blind and uncaring to understand this. He can brag
>about having "been able to work diligently enough to earn several hundreds
>of thousands each year, Pretty good for a person with a Loyala Univ Info
>Systems Bachelors degree" but he obviously don't care if the salesperson
>at Paxton has a safe place to work or not. It is also obvious from his
>rant that he doesn't care if the salesperson makes a wage that is enough
>to feed his family, nor does he care that the people who work in the
>warehouse can spend a weekend with their children. He just feels entitled
>to them being there to bow to him every minute the door is open and get
>him whatever he wants at the lowest price in town because in his life he
>is the only one that matters.
>In my shop he is the type of person we like to see go to the competing
>stores, because we know that no matter how hard we try he will never be
>pleased. He is too cheap to spend enough money to make putting up with
>him worth our while. And he is too selfcentered to understand that,
>though we try to meet the needs of every customer that walks through the
>door we must balance that with the requirement that we make enough profit
>for all of us, both managers and workers, to live on or we go out of
>business. Then everybody loses, customers, managers, workers...everybody.
>
>I am not associated with Paxton except that I have received products from
>there and the service has always been good. If you have read this far I
>appreciate your putting up with my rant. I am just tired of some people
>who are always ready to blame the "unions", "government", (insert one of
>many names in the blank), without trying to understand why things are the
>way they are and without ever putting any effort into making things better
>for people.



Why should I be responsible for making things better for others? Is
that not their own responsibility? Oh, I forgot, from each according
to their means, to each according to their needs. Typical
union/democrat/xocialist crap.

As far as "bowing to my every whim, no, I do not expect that, just
Reasonable access to the retail store's goods whenever the retail
store is OPEN for business.

Clif

Alex,

Will you please send me your email address. I would like to send you a
private note.
I tried the address shown in the newsgroup for you, but it rejected.

Don Dando

"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rob;
> My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
> Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
> channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
> respond.
> First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
> expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
> strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
> On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
> open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
> from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
> Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
> any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
> that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
> making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
> molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
> a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
> did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
> find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
> Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
> one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
> try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
> Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
> all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
> in the future.
>
> Alex
>
>
> "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood
and
> > some oak crown molding.
> >
> > They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> > expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> > oak. I decided to pass.
> >
> > What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of
the
> > plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was
closed on
> > Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> > that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before.
He
> > told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he
could
> > do.
> >
> > They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> > They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> > them.
> >
> > I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go
to
> > their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the
molding I
> > wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for
oak.
> > I won on both counts.
> >
> > Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
> >
> > Rob

Alex,

Thank you for your professional and service oriented reply.

I am sure the molding was from a different supplier and was not my main
concern. As I mentioned, my main problem was the plywood. I drove quite a
ways to find that you had the product but couldn't or wouldn't get it for
me.

Your yard does seem truly inaccessible on Saturday due to overly restrictive
union rules, but I assure you, I have been given plywood on a Saturday
before. I don't know exactly where they went to get it but I do know it was
up a flight of stairs in the back. Perhaps you could have several sheets
brought down on Friday in case a customer comes looking for it on Saturday.
You did have a nice selection but did not have 3/4" oak. I would think that
would be a popular size. Of course, it is possible there were several
sheets there Saturday morning and someone else bought them before I arrived.
I don't have a good answer for that one.

I don't want to think, however, that I have to take off work to reliably buy
plywood from your store.

I will certainly shop your store again. You offer a unique blend of wood
and woodworking products.

Thank you for your response.

Rob


"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rob;
> My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
> Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
> channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
> respond.
> First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
> expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
> strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
> On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
> open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
> from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
> Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
> any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
> that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
> making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
> molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
> a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
> did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
> find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
> Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
> one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
> try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
> Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
> all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
> in the future.
>
> Alex
>
>
> "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood
and
> > some oak crown molding.
> >
> > They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> > expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> > oak. I decided to pass.
> >
> > What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of
the
> > plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was
closed on
> > Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> > that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before.
He
> > told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he
could
> > do.
> >
> > They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> > They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> > them.
> >
> > I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go
to
> > their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the
molding I
> > wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for
oak.
> > I won on both counts.
> >
> > Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
> >
> > Rob

Alex, just ignore Clif. He's a loose cannon with little concept of how
to run a business. Any reasonable person would understand the concept
of not getting everything they want, when the want it, at a price they
want to pay, at a location of their choosing, as nothing more than the
childish "me, me, me" attitude that it is. Let HIM start up a similar
business and see how far he can take his concepts.

dave

Alex wrote:

> Clif;
>
> It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
> use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
> policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
> and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
> cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
> he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
> discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
> of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
> is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
> As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
> you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
> advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
> make sure that what they need is available.
> We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
> to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.
>
> Alex
> ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!
>
> Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>>machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
>>act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
>>satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
>>the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>>go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>>there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>>business.
>>
>>Clif

Gee, that's too bad you can only make a couple hundred thou a year while
working overtime to boot. Glad I'm not you!

dave

Clif wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:51:34 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>whine, whine, whine...the store could ALSO choose to be closed on
>>Saturdays so the employees could spend time with their families. There
>>are always going to be disgruntled shoppers no matter what. As long as
>>a store serves the needs of the bulk of the paying customers, then they
>>will thrive.
>>
>>Neither my wife nor I currently belong to a union, but because of
>>unions, we have a decent standard of living as wages are based on
>>matching the salaries of the union shops. There's two sides to every
>>story, Clif. :)
>>
>>dave
>>
>
>
> Yes Dave, the store could close on Saturday, then this topic would NOT
> have been under discussion. My complaint was that although the store
> was "open for business", the union was able to DICTATE to the business
> owners what sort of business they could be open FOR.
>
> As far as comparable salaries go, if you depend on someone else to
> bargain FOR you, even by proxy, you are not truly free to earn as much
> as you might otherwise be able to. In my profession,
> consulting/IT/business change management, I have been able to work
> diligently enough to earn several hundreds of thousands each year.
> Pretty good for a person with a Loyala Univ Info Systems Bachelors
> degree.
>
> One does NOT need to belong to a union to earn a "decent standard of
> living wage", he or she just needs to be as LAZY as your typical union
> EMPLOYEE. Remember, a 40 hour workweek is for 1) losers and 2) those
> who do not desire to make as much as they are able to earn.
>
> Clif

Alex,

Thank you for your professional and service oriented reply.

I am sure the molding was from a different supplier and was not my main
concern. As I mentioned, my main problem was the plywood. I drove quite a
ways to find that you had the product but couldn't or wouldn't get it for
me.

Your yard does seem truly inaccessible on Saturday due to overly restrictive
union rules, but I assure you, I have been given plywood on a Saturday
before. I don't know exactly where they went to get it but I do know it was
up a flight of stairs in the back. Perhaps you could have several sheets
brought down on Friday in case a customer comes looking for it on Saturday.
You did have a nice selection but did not have 3/4" oak. I would think that
would be a popular size. Of course, it is possible there were several
sheets there Saturday morning and someone else bought them before I arrived.
I don't have a good answer for that one.

I don't want to think, however, that I have to take off work to reliably buy
plywood from your store.

I will certainly shop your store again. You offer a unique blend of wood
and woodworking products.

Thank you for your response.

Rob

"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rob;
> My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
> Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
> channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
> respond.
> First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
> expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
> strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
> On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
> open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
> from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
> Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
> any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
> that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
> making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
> molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
> a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
> did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
> find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
> Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
> one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
> try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
> Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
> all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
> in the future.
>
> Alex
>
>
> "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood
and
> > some oak crown molding.
> >
> > They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> > expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> > oak. I decided to pass.
> >
> > What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of
the
> > plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was
closed on
> > Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> > that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before.
He
> > told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he
could
> > do.
> >
> > They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> > They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> > them.
> >
> > I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go
to
> > their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the
molding I
> > wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for
oak.
> > I won on both counts.
> >
> > Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
> >
> > Rob

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood and
> some oak crown molding.
>
> They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> oak. I decided to pass.
>
> What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of the
> plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was closed on
> Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before. He
> told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he could
> do.
>
> They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> them.
>
> I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go to
> their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the molding I
> wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for oak.
> I won on both counts.
>
> Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
>
> Rob
>
Rob,
Got any contact info for Schutte?

"Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I don't want to think, however, that I have to take off work to reliably
buy
> plywood from your store.
> Rob

Maybe you can call a day ahead if you know you need a sheet.
Ed

"Clif" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 6 Jan 2004 06:45:26 -0800, [email protected] (Alex) wrote:

>
> Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
> machinery is required to accomodate a customer?

He stated is was a union shop. There is a written contract and rules that
must be followed. A clerk in the store would not be allowed to operate a
fork lift. Period. I've seen cases like that and the shop hat to pay a
union guy for 8 hours work as a penalty just becuase of things like that.

Taking your argument a bit more, why does he not have someone available 24/7
just in case a customer wants something?


> I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
> go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
> there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
> business.

Sometimes there just is no way to satisfy a customer. There are
restrictions in a union shop. That does not mean the owner wants the union,
most don't, but the labor laws allow it and he must comply with the contract
work rules.
Ed

Rob;
My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
respond.
First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
in the future.

Alex


"Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood and
> some oak crown molding.
>
> They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> oak. I decided to pass.
>
> What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of the
> plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was closed on
> Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before. He
> told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he could
> do.
>
> They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> them.
>
> I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go to
> their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the molding I
> wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for oak.
> I won on both counts.
>
> Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
>
> Rob

Rob;
You are correct in assuming that 3/4" red oak is a popular
plywood. I am reviewing our stocking practices in light of this
unfortunate event. My store is small enought that it is difficult to
keep plenty of everything on hand, so I am looking into stocking more
of what sells best and less of the others. It would be just my luck,
though, that someone will come in on a saturday to buy a sheet of teak
plywood. I am sure that you have gotten it in the past from the yard
on a saturday. As I stated, we can and will pull from the yard if the
material can be gotten safely. I did some checking and found that the
plywood you were after was on the third tier and not accessible by the
guys in my store. I will do what I can to try and make it more
convenient for more people in the future, but I am afraid that no
matter what I do, someone will walk away disappointed. Such is the
bane of retail.

Alex

"Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Alex,
>
> Thank you for your professional and service oriented reply.
>
> I am sure the molding was from a different supplier and was not my main
> concern. As I mentioned, my main problem was the plywood. I drove quite a
> ways to find that you had the product but couldn't or wouldn't get it for
> me.
>
> Your yard does seem truly inaccessible on Saturday due to overly restrictive
> union rules, but I assure you, I have been given plywood on a Saturday
> before. I don't know exactly where they went to get it but I do know it was
> up a flight of stairs in the back. Perhaps you could have several sheets
> brought down on Friday in case a customer comes looking for it on Saturday.
> You did have a nice selection but did not have 3/4" oak. I would think that
> would be a popular size. Of course, it is possible there were several
> sheets there Saturday morning and someone else bought them before I arrived.
> I don't have a good answer for that one.
>
> I don't want to think, however, that I have to take off work to reliably buy
> plywood from your store.
>
> I will certainly shop your store again. You offer a unique blend of wood
> and woodworking products.
>
> Thank you for your response.
>
> Rob
>
>
> "Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Rob;
> > My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
> > Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
> > channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
> > respond.
> > First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
> > expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
> > strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
> > On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
> > open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
> > from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
> > Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
> > any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
> > that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
> > making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
> > molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
> > a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
> > did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
> > find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
> > Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
> > one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
> > try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
> > Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
> > all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
> > in the future.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood
> and
> > > some oak crown molding.
> > >
> > > They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> > > expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> > > oak. I decided to pass.
> > >
> > > What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of
> the
> > > plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was
> closed on
> > > Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> > > that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before.
> He
> > > told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he
> could
> > > do.
> > >
> > > They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> > > They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> > > them.
> > >
> > > I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go
> to
> > > their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the
> molding I
> > > wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for
> oak.
> > > I won on both counts.
> > >
> > > Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
> > >
> > > Rob

Clif;

It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
make sure that what they need is available.
We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.

Alex
ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!

Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
> machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
> act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
> satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
> the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
> go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
> there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
> business.
>
> Clif

Not to just jump in but IIRC, the OP said that your salesman simply stated
that "we don't do that on Saturday" without even looking to see if the item
requested was accessible while following union rules. If that is the case,
then you might want to have a talk with your employees. I guess that my
question is if you don't keep some supplies of the more popular items in
your warehouse where they can be reached on a Saturday, why do you bother
opening?

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving


"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clif;
>
> It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
> use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
> policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
> and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
> cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
> he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
> discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
> of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
> is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
> As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
> you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
> advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
> make sure that what they need is available.
> We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
> to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.
>
> Alex
> ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!
>
> Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
> > machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
> > act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
> > satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
> > the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
> > go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
> > there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
> > business.
> >
> > Clif

On 5 Jan 2004 13:15:25 -0800, [email protected] (Alex) wrote:

>Rob;
> My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
>Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
>channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
>respond.
> First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
>expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
>strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
> On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
>open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
>from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
>Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
>any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
>that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
>making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
>molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
>a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
>did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
>find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
> Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
>one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
>try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
>Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
>all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
>in the future.
>
>Alex
>
>


AH, another UNION deacle. When will we, as a country learn that
unions have grown too fat, lazy and ugly to serve our needs? As a
customer, I don't care if you hire "unionized" workers or not AS LONG
AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted. When businesses cannot do business
for their paying customers, they need to consider other options. If
your locale is a "closed shop" locale, I feel sorry for all of you.

true freedom does not come with union dues, nor with unions
restricting what can and cannot be done by a business owner.

DEATH to most unions!!!!!!!

Clif

TANSTAAFL, Robert A. Heinlein

how ridiculous for say a set of 24"s?

WD wrote:

> Oops... I forgot they also make free delivery if you buy more than
> $350. Furthermore, they sell Mexico or China made compatible Accuride
> slide for a ridiculous low price.

FWIW - I've been a Paxton (and other suppliers) customer for over 10 years.
I've always been happy with the Paxton service. In my view they have 2
niche's for the woodworker - great service and great variety in their retail
store. They're sometimes a little pricey (hint, hint Alex), but the pricing
varies between woods and other things, so it's always worth investigating. I
continue to go there because I can almost always find what I'm looking for
and more often than not, I'll find great things I haven't been looking for.
They carry the best selection of exotic woods in the city. And to be fair, I
called them pricey - but I just bought 22 board feet of 8/4 Cocobolo
rosewood from them for $11.33 a bf. I've NEVER seen it that cheap anywhere
so I had to stock up on some of the prettiest wood I've ever worked.

To be honest, I've gotten to know Alex over the past year and always enjoyed
the conversations in the store, the good service and the fact they've always
helped me load my stuff in my car (that's going for a little extra service
I've never gotten anywhere else).

Gary

"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rob;
> My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
> Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
> channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
> respond.
> First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
> expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
> strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
> On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
> open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
> from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
> Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
> any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
> that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
> making them pull items that are too high to pull easily. Also, the
> molding that you were looking was from a particular vendor that we are
> a distributor for. The molding that you found elsewhere most likely
> did not come from the same vendor. I am glad that you were able to
> find something that would work for you at a price that worked for you.
> Again, I am sorry that your experience here was not a pleasant
> one. I do wish that you had called me at the store and allowed me to
> try and put things right before airing this in a public forum, as
> Paxtons has always tried to maintain a good working relationship with
> all of its customers. I hope that we will be better able to serve you
> in the future.
>
> Alex
>
>
> "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I went to Paxton in KC today to buy a sheet of 3/4" oak veneered plywood
and
> > some oak crown molding.
> >
> > They did not have the molding in stock but could order it. It seemed
> > expensive at $7.35 per foot for poplar. I was told it would be more for
> > oak. I decided to pass.
> >
> > What really disappointed me was the fact that they did not have any of
the
> > plywood I wanted in the retail area. I was told that the yard was
closed on
> > Saturday so I would have to come back during the week. I told the clerk
> > that they have gotten plywood for me from the yard on Saturday before.
He
> > told me that must have been a one time thing and there was nothing he
could
> > do.
> >
> > They had the product but did not want to take the time to get it for me.
> > They wanted me to come back another day when it was more convenient for
> > them.
> >
> > I went to Schutte Lumber and got the plywood that day. They had to go
to
> > their yard to get it but did it with a smile. Also - they had the
molding I
> > wanted that Paxton would have had to order. It was $4.25 per foot for
oak.
> > I won on both counts.
> >
> > Next time, I will go to Schutte first.
> >
> > Rob

Ok, I'll give you the point for having to go out of my way to solve or
prevent a potential problem for myself, now, why does the store
management make certain that when they choose to be open, they ensure
there is adequate, properly trained staff available to retrieve items
that they sell? Why make a potential customer responsible for doing
what a business should do as a matter of service? Especially when a
customer cannot be expected to know what items the store CHOOSES to
make inaccessible on SOME operating days.

That is my primary problem with this entire discussion, that you and
others see nothing wrong with a store not serving their customers
appropriately. Appropriately defined as having items the store has in
stock and available on a "weekday" not be available merely because
some employee cannot be bothered to go get it for him. Rob stated
that it is not a matter of training, eliminating the "safety" excuse,
just citing company "policy". A company with a policy that shows its
disregard for its customers, interesting.

Clif

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:58:25 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>I STILL say be glad they are open on Saturdays! If you want something
>that may not be accessible call in advance so you don't waste your time
>and increase your blood pressure. SOLVE the problem, instead of merely
>whining about how the store is out to inconvenience you.
>
>I love In & Out burgers, but if I don't ask for my burger "well done" it
>invariably is too pink for my liking. Rather than complain about how
>they can't cook a burger properly, I just ask for it well done when I
>order. THAT'S problem SOLVING instead of COMPLAINING.
>
>
>dave
>
>
>dave
>
>Clif wrote:
>
>> Ah, dave and rob,
>>
>> I have never said I wanted everything, just the same accessibility to
>> marketable goods WHENEVER the retail location was open without having
>> to hear, as a customer how "union rulkes" forbids employees that are
>> properly trained from doing the job. What job you might ask, the job
>> of the business to sell merchandise.
>> All the rest of your discussion aside, it IS apparrent that, at least
>> at that paxton's location, the management believes more in serving the
>> employees than in serving the customer.
>>
>> Clif
>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:09:04 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Alex, just ignore Clif. He's a loose cannon with little concept of how
>>>to run a business. Any reasonable person would understand the concept
>>>of not getting everything they want, when the want it, at a price they
>>>want to pay, at a location of their choosing, as nothing more than the
>>>childish "me, me, me" attitude that it is. Let HIM start up a similar
>>>business and see how far he can take his concepts.
>>>
>>>dave
>>>
>>>Alex wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Clif;
>>>>
>>>> It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
>>>>use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
>>>>policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
>>>>and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
>>>>cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
>>>>he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
>>>>discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
>>>>of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
>>>>is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
>>>>As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
>>>>you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
>>>>advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
>>>>make sure that what they need is available.
>>>> We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
>>>>to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.
>>>>
>>>>Alex
>>>>ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!
>>>>
>>>>Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>>>>>machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
>>>>>act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
>>>>>satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
>>>>>the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>>>>>go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>>>>>there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>>>>>business.
>>>>>
>>>>>Clif
>>
>>

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:59:45 -0600, Jon Dough <[email protected]> wrote:

>It seems Clif is looking for a place to rant. He was offered a nice
>explanation by Alex. But for self-centered Clif...."AS LONG
>AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted" it is all about him!


yeah, it sounds like clif is pretty much a twit.

Ah, dave and rob,

I have never said I wanted everything, just the same accessibility to
marketable goods WHENEVER the retail location was open without having
to hear, as a customer how "union rulkes" forbids employees that are
properly trained from doing the job. What job you might ask, the job
of the business to sell merchandise.
All the rest of your discussion aside, it IS apparrent that, at least
at that paxton's location, the management believes more in serving the
employees than in serving the customer.

Clif
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:09:04 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Alex, just ignore Clif. He's a loose cannon with little concept of how
>to run a business. Any reasonable person would understand the concept
>of not getting everything they want, when the want it, at a price they
>want to pay, at a location of their choosing, as nothing more than the
>childish "me, me, me" attitude that it is. Let HIM start up a similar
>business and see how far he can take his concepts.
>
>dave
>
>Alex wrote:
>
>> Clif;
>>
>> It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
>> use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
>> policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
>> and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
>> cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
>> he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
>> discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
>> of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
>> is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
>> As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
>> you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
>> advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
>> make sure that what they need is available.
>> We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
>> to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.
>>
>> Alex
>> ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!
>>
>> Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>>>Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>>>machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
>>>act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
>>>satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
>>>the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>>>go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>>>there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>>>business.
>>>
>>>Clif

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:27:53 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Clif" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 6 Jan 2004 06:45:26 -0800, [email protected] (Alex) wrote:
>
>>
>> Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>> machinery is required to accomodate a customer?
>
>He stated is was a union shop. There is a written contract and rules that
>must be followed. A clerk in the store would not be allowed to operate a
>fork lift. Period. I've seen cases like that and the shop hat to pay a
>union guy for 8 hours work as a penalty just becuase of things like that.
>
>Taking your argument a bit more, why does he not have someone available 24/7
>just in case a customer wants something?
>
>
>> I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>> go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>> there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>> business.
>
>Sometimes there just is no way to satisfy a customer. There are
>restrictions in a union shop. That does not mean the owner wants the union,
>most don't, but the labor laws allow it and he must comply with the contract
>work rules.
>Ed
>
True, some customers cannot or will not be satisfied. However,
"union" shop is another way of saying, that the workers are more
important than the customer. As far as having someone 24/7, yes he
should, IF the retail outlet was open 24/7. If the retail outlet is
open on a Saturday, it is incumbent on the establishment to meet a
reasonable customer request, such as being able to purchase a STOCK
item. If union rules interfere with doing business, I think the
employer should be allowed, no, encouraged to dump the union unless
politicians in the union's pockets have made it illegal.

Clif

> On 5 Jan 2004 13:15:25 -0800, [email protected] (Alex) wrote:
>
>>Rob;
>> My name is Alex Garcia and I am the manager of the Paxton
>>Woodcrafters store in Kansas City. I received your post through
>>channels passed down from our parent company and would like to
>>respond.
>> First, I'm sorry that your visit to our store was not as you
>>expected. My main focus has always been good customer service and I
>>strive to maintain that focus as best as I can.
>> On Saturdays, our yard is closed and only the retail store is
>>open. Our policy is that we can pull stocked moldings and plywoods
>>from the yard on Saturdays if the items you seek are accessible.
>>Since we are a union yard, the retail crew is not allowed to operate
>>any of the machinery that would allow us access to some of the items
>>that we cannot reach otherwise. I would not endanger my crew by
>>making them pull items that are too high to pull easily.
>>Alex
>>
>>
>
>
> AH, another UNION deacle. When will we, as a country learn that
> unions have grown too fat, lazy and ugly to serve our needs? As a
> customer, I don't care if you hire "unionized" workers or not AS LONG
> AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted.
> DEATH to most unions!!!!!!!
>
> Clif

It seems Clif is looking for a place to rant. He was offered a nice
explanation by Alex. But for self-centered Clif...."AS LONG
AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted" it is all about him! If a store is
open on Saturday it means that everybody in the store must jump to his
every whim! And if they don't he must have someone to blame! Never mind
the fact that Paxton is well known for their service. Never mind the fact
that the rules, whether union or not, are there for the safety of the
workers. (How would you like to leave your normal work area, go to a dark
warehouse, finally find the keys to an unfamiliar forktruck and maneuver
several hundred pounds of plywood 25 or 30 feet over your head while
knowing that other customers are waiting for you and nobody else in the
store knows you are in the warehouse or will come to see if you need
help.)
You see, basically this is a human rights issue. But Clif is the type of
person who is too blind and uncaring to understand this. He can brag
about having "been able to work diligently enough to earn several hundreds
of thousands each year, Pretty good for a person with a Loyala Univ Info
Systems Bachelors degree" but he obviously don't care if the salesperson
at Paxton has a safe place to work or not. It is also obvious from his
rant that he doesn't care if the salesperson makes a wage that is enough
to feed his family, nor does he care that the people who work in the
warehouse can spend a weekend with their children. He just feels entitled
to them being there to bow to him every minute the door is open and get
him whatever he wants at the lowest price in town because in his life he
is the only one that matters.
In my shop he is the type of person we like to see go to the competing
stores, because we know that no matter how hard we try he will never be
pleased. He is too cheap to spend enough money to make putting up with
him worth our while. And he is too selfcentered to understand that,
though we try to meet the needs of every customer that walks through the
door we must balance that with the requirement that we make enough profit
for all of us, both managers and workers, to live on or we go out of
business. Then everybody loses, customers, managers, workers...everybody.

I am not associated with Paxton except that I have received products from
there and the service has always been good. If you have read this far I
appreciate your putting up with my rant. I am just tired of some people
who are always ready to blame the "unions", "government", (insert one of
many names in the blank), without trying to understand why things are the
way they are and without ever putting any effort into making things better
for people.

whine, whine, whine...the store could ALSO choose to be closed on
Saturdays so the employees could spend time with their families. There
are always going to be disgruntled shoppers no matter what. As long as
a store serves the needs of the bulk of the paying customers, then they
will thrive.

Neither my wife nor I currently belong to a union, but because of
unions, we have a decent standard of living as wages are based on
matching the salaries of the union shops. There's two sides to every
story, Clif. :)

dave

Clif wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:27:53 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Clif" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>On 6 Jan 2004 06:45:26 -0800, [email protected] (Alex) wrote:
>>
>>>Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>>>machinery is required to accomodate a customer?
>>
>>He stated is was a union shop. There is a written contract and rules that
>>must be followed. A clerk in the store would not be allowed to operate a
>>fork lift. Period. I've seen cases like that and the shop hat to pay a
>>union guy for 8 hours work as a penalty just becuase of things like that.
>>
>>Taking your argument a bit more, why does he not have someone available 24/7
>>just in case a customer wants something?
>>
>>
>>
>>>I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>>>go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>>>there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>>>business.
>>
>>Sometimes there just is no way to satisfy a customer. There are
>>restrictions in a union shop. That does not mean the owner wants the union,
>>most don't, but the labor laws allow it and he must comply with the contract
>>work rules.
>>Ed
>>
>
> True, some customers cannot or will not be satisfied. However,
> "union" shop is another way of saying, that the workers are more
> important than the customer. As far as having someone 24/7, yes he
> should, IF the retail outlet was open 24/7. If the retail outlet is
> open on a Saturday, it is incumbent on the establishment to meet a
> reasonable customer request, such as being able to purchase a STOCK
> item. If union rules interfere with doing business, I think the
> employer should be allowed, no, encouraged to dump the union unless
> politicians in the union's pockets have made it illegal.
>
> Clif

I agree if there is willful disregard for their customers, you have a
legitimate gripe, Clif.

OTOH, you KNOW that there are issues with accessibility with some sheet
goods on Saturdays, so calling ahead just seems prudent. Otherwise take
you business elsewhere IF there's anyplace else to go on Saturday that
you prefer. See, my point is that if they are your only option you need
to either work WITH them or go there M-F. What if you worked on
Saturdays and expected them to be open for YOU on Sundays? That's
obviously unreasonable. Think of them being open on Saturday as a
bonus. Perhaps SOME items will be unavailable then. That's something
you KNOW about and should be prepared for.

dave

Clif wrote:

> Ok, I'll give you the point for having to go out of my way to solve or
> prevent a potential problem for myself, now, why does the store
> management make certain that when they choose to be open, they ensure
> there is adequate, properly trained staff available to retrieve items
> that they sell? Why make a potential customer responsible for doing
> what a business should do as a matter of service? Especially when a
> customer cannot be expected to know what items the store CHOOSES to
> make inaccessible on SOME operating days.
>
> That is my primary problem with this entire discussion, that you and
> others see nothing wrong with a store not serving their customers
> appropriately. Appropriately defined as having items the store has in
> stock and available on a "weekday" not be available merely because
> some employee cannot be bothered to go get it for him. Rob stated
> that it is not a matter of training, eliminating the "safety" excuse,
> just citing company "policy". A company with a policy that shows its
> disregard for its customers, interesting.
>
> Clif
>
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:58:25 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I STILL say be glad they are open on Saturdays! If you want something
>>that may not be accessible call in advance so you don't waste your time
>>and increase your blood pressure. SOLVE the problem, instead of merely
>>whining about how the store is out to inconvenience you.
>>
>>I love In & Out burgers, but if I don't ask for my burger "well done" it
>>invariably is too pink for my liking. Rather than complain about how
>>they can't cook a burger properly, I just ask for it well done when I
>>order. THAT'S problem SOLVING instead of COMPLAINING.
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>>Clif wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ah, dave and rob,
>>>
>>>I have never said I wanted everything, just the same accessibility to
>>>marketable goods WHENEVER the retail location was open without having
>>>to hear, as a customer how "union rulkes" forbids employees that are
>>>properly trained from doing the job. What job you might ask, the job
>>>of the business to sell merchandise.
>>>All the rest of your discussion aside, it IS apparrent that, at least
>>>at that paxton's location, the management believes more in serving the
>>>employees than in serving the customer.
>>>
>>>Clif
>>>On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:09:04 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Alex, just ignore Clif. He's a loose cannon with little concept of how
>>>>to run a business. Any reasonable person would understand the concept
>>>>of not getting everything they want, when the want it, at a price they
>>>>want to pay, at a location of their choosing, as nothing more than the
>>>>childish "me, me, me" attitude that it is. Let HIM start up a similar
>>>>business and see how far he can take his concepts.
>>>>
>>>>dave
>>>>
>>>>Alex wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Clif;
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not a matter of training. We are all well versed in the
>>>>>use of the machinery that is required. It is a matter of company
>>>>>policy. We make every effort to satisfy the needs of our customers
>>>>>and we are mostly successful. Unfortunately, there are times when we
>>>>>cannot (not "will not") do what is required to get the customer what
>>>>>he or she wants. My explanation to Rob was not intended to start a
>>>>>discourse on the evils of unions, but simply to offer an explanation
>>>>>of one of the reasons the policy is in place. The overriding factor
>>>>>is not the union rules as much as it is the safety of my employees.
>>>>>As I stated in a previous post, if we can get to it we will get it for
>>>>>you. Most of my customers are aware of my policies and will call in
>>>>>advance to find out if the items they need are available or if we can
>>>>>make sure that what they need is available.
>>>>> We at Paxtons are committed to good customer service and strive
>>>>>to make sure that your visit is a pleasant one.
>>>>>
>>>>>Alex
>>>>>ps. I sure am glad that you're not the owner of Paxtons!
>>>>>
>>>>>Clif <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
>>>>>>machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
>>>>>>act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
>>>>>>satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
>>>>>>the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
>>>>>>go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
>>>>>>there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
>>>>>>business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Clif
>>>
>>>
>

On 6 Jan 2004 06:45:26 -0800, [email protected] (Alex) wrote:

>Rob;
> You are correct in assuming that 3/4" red oak is a popular
>plywood. I am reviewing our stocking practices in light of this
>unfortunate event. My store is small enought that it is difficult to
>keep plenty of everything on hand, so I am looking into stocking more
>of what sells best and less of the others. It would be just my luck,
>though, that someone will come in on a saturday to buy a sheet of teak
>plywood. I am sure that you have gotten it in the past from the yard
>on a saturday. As I stated, we can and will pull from the yard if the
>material can be gotten safely. I did some checking and found that the
>plywood you were after was on the third tier and not accessible by the
>guys in my store. I will do what I can to try and make it more
>convenient for more people in the future, but I am afraid that no
>matter what I do, someone will walk away disappointed. Such is the
>bane of retail.
>
>Alex
>
>

Why do you not train your Saturday workstaff to safely handle whatever
machinery is required to accomodate a customer? If you believe and
act as though you cannot, or rather will not make the effort to
satisfy your customers, you indeed are the "bane of retail" If I was
the owner of Paxton, I would simply have to fire a manager who did not
go out of the way to satisfy a customer and who had the attitude that
there is nothing you as manager could have done to prevent the loss of
business.

Clif

that's a good price if they are on a par with the quality of the KV's I
get for $10 a pair for 24".

dave

WD wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:07:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>how ridiculous for say a set of 24"s?
>
>
> For 24" - $5.35 and 28" - $5.95.
> Why pay more when you don't need to?
>
>
>>WD wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oops... I forgot they also make free delivery if you buy more than
>>>$350. Furthermore, they sell Mexico or China made compatible Accuride
>>>slide for a ridiculous low price.
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

guess I forgot to tell you I ran a business for 8 years... :)


dave

Clif wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:40:56 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Gee, that's too bad you can only make a couple hundred thou a year while
>>working overtime to boot. Glad I'm not you!
>>
>>dave
>>
>>
>
>
> Gosh Dave, A poor attempt at humor from a guy who does not even bother
> to accurately understand the contents of a message to which he is
> replying. I said "several hundred thousand" Not a couple. in any
> case, "overtime is a concept invented for the non business owners,
> just ask anyone who owns and operates a business that he/she has
> started what hours they work. Only EMPLOYEES and the dumb masses look
> at each and every hour as a goal in and of themselves. To an OWNER,
> the goal is success.
>
> Oh, by the way, I too am glad you are NOT me, I couldn't stand myself
> for being a sheeple such as yourself.
>
> Clif
>
> Remember, TANSTAAFL, There Ain't No Such Tthing Aas A Free Lunch
> R.A. Heinlein, in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress