I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the grain
still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
Help!
Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted lacquer.
Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the grain
and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If that
didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but that
seems like a lot of work.)
But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
...you have probably seen the product before (it's actually older than I
am)...it's called "sanding sealer"...don't know why it works (you can ask
the pros here) but it does on most things. I think it is a thinned version
of poly that when sanded keeps the fibers down but still accepts color.
Good luck
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> you probably sanded too much, thereby providing a fresh set
> of fibers ready to pop up the next time you applied a water
> based product.
> dave
>
> Toller wrote:
>
> > I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the
grain
> > still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
> > Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
> >
> > Help!
> >
> > Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted
lacquer.
> > Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the
grain
> > and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If
that
> > didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but
that
> > seems like a lot of work.)
> > But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
> >
> >
>
Accept after the last coat has dried.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Wally Goffeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not a good idea to use steel wool if you are working with water base
> systems. Steel particles can cause rust stains.
>
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:53:40 GMT, "Jim Akins" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Use 000 steel wool or a scotch brite pad after raising the grain,
sometimes
> >more than 1 grain raising is required. Jim A.
> >
>
> Wally Goffeney
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wgoffeney/index.htm
you probably sanded too much, thereby providing a fresh set
of fibers ready to pop up the next time you applied a water
based product.
dave
Toller wrote:
> I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the grain
> still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
> Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
>
> Help!
>
> Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted lacquer.
> Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the grain
> and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If that
> didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but that
> seems like a lot of work.)
> But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
>
>
...was just a thought...don't remember which project Normy was working on
that he used it...I used it about a million years ago on a pine desk and had
no problems, but then again I was using oil base stain over the top and not
a water based dye. Have never used dye now that I think about it since I
never saw the need.
Maybe the solution is to let the grain rise and deal with it accordingly...I
have more higher number grit sandpaper in my shop than lower...400g wet/dry
gets a lot of use.
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually sanding sealers are made with mineral soaps I.E. zinc sterate..
> Their purpose is to make sanding the first coat easier by preventing
corning
> and other such problems.
>
> The down side is that the soaps can cause adhesion problems and, in
general,
> commercial sanding sealers containing such sterates are best left on the
> shelf at the paint store.
>
> Then of course what the action of sealing the surface will have when
trying
> to apply the stain has to be considered.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "Tom Kohlman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:2p%[email protected]...
> > ...you have probably seen the product before (it's actually older than I
> > am)...it's called "sanding sealer"...don't know why it works (you can
ask
> > the pros here) but it does on most things. I think it is a thinned
> version
> > of poly that when sanded keeps the fibers down but still accepts color.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> >
> > "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > you probably sanded too much, thereby providing a fresh set
> > > of fibers ready to pop up the next time you applied a water
> > > based product.
> > > dave
> > >
> > > Toller wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the
> > grain
> > > > still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
> > > > Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
> > > >
> > > > Help!
> > > >
> > > > Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted
> > lacquer.
> > > > Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides
the
> > grain
> > > > and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral.
(If
> > that
> > > > didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but
> > that
> > > > seems like a lot of work.)
> > > > But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
hmmm...while playing around with dyes and stains, I found it
nigh impossible to change the color of oak with a water
based stain, after first applying an oil modified pigment
stain (the stain left the tightly grained portions
relatively unstained, which is why I like to use dyes). why
would poly (even a light coat) allow a water based dye to
effectively color the wood? seems like if it seals the
wood, dye wouldn't work. what am i missing?
dave
Tom Kohlman wrote:
> ...you have probably seen the product before (it's actually older than I
> am)...it's called "sanding sealer"...don't know why it works (you can ask
> the pros here) but it does on most things. I think it is a thinned version
> of poly that when sanded keeps the fibers down but still accepts color.
>
> Good luck
>
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>you probably sanded too much, thereby providing a fresh set
>>of fibers ready to pop up the next time you applied a water
>>based product.
>>dave
>>
>>Toller wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the
>
> grain
>
>>>still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
>>>Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
>>>
>>>Help!
>>>
>>>Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted
>
> lacquer.
>
>>>Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the
>
> grain
>
>>>and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If
>
> that
>
>>>didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but
>
> that
>
>>>seems like a lot of work.)
>>>But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Actually sanding sealers are made with mineral soaps I.E. zinc sterate..
Their purpose is to make sanding the first coat easier by preventing corning
and other such problems.
The down side is that the soaps can cause adhesion problems and, in general,
commercial sanding sealers containing such sterates are best left on the
shelf at the paint store.
Then of course what the action of sealing the surface will have when trying
to apply the stain has to be considered.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Tom Kohlman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2p%[email protected]...
> ...you have probably seen the product before (it's actually older than I
> am)...it's called "sanding sealer"...don't know why it works (you can ask
> the pros here) but it does on most things. I think it is a thinned
version
> of poly that when sanded keeps the fibers down but still accepts color.
>
> Good luck
>
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > you probably sanded too much, thereby providing a fresh set
> > of fibers ready to pop up the next time you applied a water
> > based product.
> > dave
> >
> > Toller wrote:
> >
> > > I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the
> grain
> > > still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
> > > Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
> > >
> > > Help!
> > >
> > > Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted
> lacquer.
> > > Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the
> grain
> > > and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If
> that
> > > didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but
> that
> > > seems like a lot of work.)
> > > But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Toller <[email protected]> wrote:
: I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the grain
: still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
Try using a cabinet scraper, instead of sandpaper. This will shear off
the raised fibers. Sanding will cut/grind them off, but cut new short
fibers that may raise on the second application.
-- Andy Barss
Not a good idea to use steel wool if you are working with water base
systems. Steel particles can cause rust stains.
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:53:40 GMT, "Jim Akins" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Use 000 steel wool or a scotch brite pad after raising the grain, sometimes
>more than 1 grain raising is required. Jim A.
>
Wally Goffeney
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wgoffeney/index.htm
Of course the question that now comes up is, what do you mean when you say
you let it dry and sanded?
Wood is made up of strands of intertwined cells running length wise along
the grain of the wood, think day old spaghetti left to dry in the pot .
Well, mostly anyway.
Mill wood and you leave some of these strands shaved off short.
When wood is dampened the cells absorb water and swell. When it dries it
shrinks back. However, these severed strands, with nothing attached to pull
them back, remain standing and make the fuzz.
Now, if you actually SAND the wood you not only shave off this fuzz but you
also sever new strands. The whole thing becomes a self perpetuating process.
Think of it as a government program, the problem never gets fixed it just
keeps on growing.
What you want to be doing is just ever so lightly scuffing or slicing off
those nasty little fibers with as little impact as possible on the
underlying wood.
Note, if you are not staining but are using a water based finish pre
dampening isn't necessary. Just apply a wash coat of the finish and let it
dry. The fuzz stands up nice and stiff and the dried finish makes it's
harder to accidentally sever more strands in the underlying wood.
Good luck. Hopefully that will be the problem and solution.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the grain
> still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.
> Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.
>
> Help!
>
> Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted
lacquer.
> Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the
grain
> and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If
that
> didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but that
> seems like a lot of work.)
> But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?
>
>