If you go down to your neighborhood hard wood dealer and asked them to pull
you 50 Bd Ft of say, 5/4 rough cut oak, you will find that it is sold in
random widths and lengths and will be somewhere around 1 1/4" thick (5,
1/4's of an inch). This is the nominal size or, the size before the wood has
been S2S (surfaced two sides).
If you buy the wood S2S it will be thinner since the work of surfacing has
been done. Just how much thinner depends on it's nominal size. There are
charts for that. S2S costs more then in the rough and less then what it
would cost you at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.. In most cases rough cut stock is
half the cost of stock bought at a home store.
If you do buy stock from a hardwood dealer pick it out yourself. If the
dealer does it, unless you are a very very good customer, you will get a
wide variety of widths and lengths with no regard to matched grain, end
checks, twists, warps, cupping, etc. After sorting through and picking out
you stock, DO leave the stacks in nice shape if you intend on doing more
business with the dealer.
S2S means surfaced two sides NOT sanded and ready to have a finish applied.
It will almost certainly need further work. Some hardwood dealers may, for a
price, do all the milling work, to your spec's, for you though I have never
found one. But, then again, I don't look all that hard for one that does.
Buying stock, rough cut or S2S is cheaper then buying your stock from a home
store where it is sold by the linier foot and all the milling work is pretty
much done for you. However the initial investment in the tools necessary to
accurately mill your own stock from rough cut lumber (jointer and planer or
a lot of skill with a hand plane, something you should learn in any case) is
usually out of the reach for the budget of a newbie woodworker and the extra
cost of buying from a home store or having the milling done for you is
usually a better way to go when first starting out.
Further, while milling the stock so it is true (the stock is the same
thickness and width along it's entire length and all sides are at 90
degrees to each other) is essential in avoiding frustrations when building
something, the process is a time consuming and boring.
In short, if stretching the budget too include the tools and or time
available to build things is in short supply pre milled stock is probably
not a good way to start out.
Construction lumber, 2 X, 1X, stock from the home store is usually has too
high a moisture content for building furniture type pieces. There are charts
that explains the grading of stock and you will find furniture grade pine at
a home store but it is more expensive then the construction stuff.
Final note, whatever stock you buy for building something the various rules
for acclimation should be followed to avoid or at least mitigate extreme
wood movement.
Good luck
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> geeze now I'm gonna get confused!!!
>
> You all here must really bear with me for a time, I took woodworking WAY
> back in high school. I now have a home shop with a good bit of power
tools,
> I am starting out by making bird houses and feeders as well as cutting
> boards. I would like to make a table saw table next. So look out for me
for
> questions
>
> Thanks in advance'
> Rich
>
>
--------------44AC85EECA8F8E565B7A18F6
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JP is certainly correct. IMHO, I think Rich needs more than that. IMHO = In My Humble
Opinion.
Dressed lumber from BORG = Home Depot, et al, meaning planed four sides = dressed all
sides, both faces and both edges. A tuba is less than 4X2, etc.
Play nice here and you will learn a heck a lot of good info from these wood-working
veterans. Trust me. I am a newbe also and not an original card carrying original Rec.
I hope to be admitted one day into their inner sanctum. At 70 years old, and a
retired NASA engineer who designed and developed the 10-foot Lunar Drill, I tip my
dusty hat to each and all of them. I screwed royally up with a highly inappropriate
slam against Lee Valley a while back. That will never happen again from me. Each of
these veterans have there own significant histories. Listen to them and learn. You
can do far worse.
Hoyt
"Bill
> Wait a few weeks before you confuse him. LOL
>
> "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:56:06 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks I now may understand the talk around here
> >
> > Maybe, but not just based on that last response. 4/4 could actually
> > mean say 13/16ths depending on how it's milled.
> >
> > JP
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<html>
JP is certainly correct. IMHO, I think Rich needs more than that. IMHO
= In My Humble Opinion.
<p>Dressed lumber from BORG = Home Depot, <i>et al,</i> meaning planed
four sides = dressed all sides, both faces and both edges. A tuba is less
than 4X2, etc.
<p>Play nice here and you will learn a heck a lot of good info from these
wood-working veterans. Trust me. I am a newbe also and not an original
card carrying original Rec. I hope to be admitted one day into their inner
sanctum. At 70 years old, and a retired NASA engineer who designed and
developed the 10-foot Lunar Drill, I tip my dusty hat to each and all of
them. I screwed royally up with a highly inappropriate slam against Lee
Valley a while back. That will never happen again from me. Each of these
veterans have there own significant histories. Listen to them and learn.
You can do far worse.
<br>Hoyt
<p>"Bill
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Wait a few weeks before you confuse him. LOL
<p>"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
<br><a href="news:[email protected]">news:[email protected]</a>...
<br>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:56:06 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
<br>> wrote:
<br>>
<br>> >Thanks I now may understand the talk around here
<br>>
<br>> Maybe, but not just based on that last response. 4/4 could
actually
<br>> mean say 13/16ths depending on how it's milled.
<br>>
<br>> JP</blockquote>
</html>
--------------44AC85EECA8F8E565B7A18F6--
mtt, neither (of course).
The design of the Lunar Drill featured segments of hollow core of some exotic metal
which I have now forgotten the name. It may have been a titanium alloy. The drill bit
was the annular rim of the first joint. The rim had tiny hand-set diamonds set a very
particular way for increased toughness. The drill stem segments were fitted together
by the astronaut. The cores were about 15 inches long. Of interest to woodworkers
will be that the drill motor was made by Black and Decker. The motor was powered by
NiCad batteries. This was the very first use of NiCads. Our present-day cordless WW
tools, et al, owe a debt of gratitude to the US tax payers and NASA for paying for
that invention.
The drill went to the Moon three times. It landed two times and worked perfectly. The
first launch of the drill was on Apollo 13. You may recall that all unnecessary items
had to be jettisoned to get the astronauts back home. That drill is still "lost in
space."
The drill had no chuck. Each stem segment, except the diamond tipped end, was fitted
with a twist snap-lock thingahmajig. As the drill motor neared the Lunar surface as
the bit went deeper, the motor was removed and another stem segments were attached,
and the motor was then repositioned about chest height.
I apologize for such a long reply which is not directly on wood working.
Hoyt
mttt wrote:
> > At 70 years old, and a retired NASA engineer who designed and developed
> the 10-foot Lunar Drill, I tip my
>
> What kind of chuck?
> Did they use brad-points or Forstners?
Hi Rich,
Sorry about all the partly correct answers. A lot
of helpful and good intentioned, but sometimes
misinformed people here. Not attempting to slam
them, just beware of incorrect advice.
1. 4/4 is the milling size. When a tree goes to a
mill for processing, the wood is cut to thickness
in 1/4 inch increments. 4/4 therefore is one inch
thick. The wood is then sold rough cut, or is
then milled. Usually it is milled to 13/16". This
is because after sanding, the wood should
then allow the case, mill, or trim carpenter to
make his measurements based on 3/4" thickness.
2. Straightness (lack of cup, twist, bow, etc.) is
an attribute of proper drying, wood thickness
(thin sliced Walnut for example has a high
rate of degrade due to "potato chipping"),
grain of the wood, and the type of wood.
Hope this helps a little.
-Rick
>I am kinda new to WW I would like to
>know what the numbers mean
>
>IE 4/4 Walnut if I remember correctly is has something to do with
>straightness???
>
>Be forewarned, other "dumb" questions may follow!!!!
>
>Rich
Now I'm really impressed! A NASA engineer reading the wreck. I sure
agree that the information is astounding here. Also the entertainment
isn't to bad either.
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:28:29 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I am kinda new to WW I have a little education in it but I would like to
>know what the numbers mean
>
>IE 4/4 Walnut if I remember correctly is has something to do with
>straightness???
>
>Be forewarned, other "dumb" questions may follow!!!!
>
>Rich
>
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:56:06 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Thanks I now may understand the talk around here
Maybe, but not just based on that last response. 4/4 could actually
mean say 13/16ths depending on how it's milled.
JP
>The design of the Lunar Drill featured segments of hollow core of some exotic metal
>which I have now forgotten the name. It may have been a titanium alloy. The drill bit
>was the annular rim of the first joint. The rim had tiny hand-set diamonds set a very
>particular way for increased toughness. The drill stem segments were fitted together
>by the astronaut. The cores were about 15 inches long. Of interest to woodworkers
>will be that the drill motor was made by Black and Decker. The motor was powered by
>NiCad batteries. This was the very first use of NiCads. Our present-day cordless WW
>tools, et al, owe a debt of gratitude to the US tax payers and NASA for paying for
>that invention.
>
>The drill went to the Moon three times. It landed two times and worked perfectly. The
>first launch of the drill was on Apollo 13. You may recall that all unnecessary items
>had to be jettisoned to get the astronauts back home. That drill is still "lost in
>space."
>
>The drill had no chuck. Each stem segment, except the diamond tipped end, was fitted
>with a twist snap-lock thingahmajig. As the drill motor neared the Lunar surface as
>the bit went deeper, the motor was removed and another stem segments were attached,
>and the motor was then repositioned about chest height.
>
>I apologize for such a long reply which is not directly on wood working.
What apology, Hoyt!
Finally a tax dollar that really did something.
In case no one has mentioned it in a while, a BIG THANK YOU for your
service to our great country.
Would these be the same engineers that smacked a Mars probe into the planet
because they "forgot" to convert MPH to KPH?
Now that was impressive and entertaining not to mention expensive.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Rodger Pevehouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Now I'm really impressed! A NASA engineer reading the wreck. I sure
> agree that the information is astounding here. Also the entertainment
> isn't to bad either.
quarters of and inch.
ie 4\4 is one inch thick
8\4 is two inches thick
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am kinda new to WW I have a little education in it but I would like to
> know what the numbers mean
>
> IE 4/4 Walnut if I remember correctly is has something to do with
> straightness???
>
> Be forewarned, other "dumb" questions may follow!!!!
>
> Rich
>
>
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> geeze now I'm gonna get confused!!!
OK - 4/4 is the nominal thickness of a rough-cut, dried piece of
lumber: 4 quarters of an inch, or 1" total (incidently, it's
pronounced "4 quarter" not "4 fourths").
Because lumber doesn't dry consistantly, a piece of 4/4 rough
can be anywhere from slightly under 1" to about 1.25" thick.
Usually it will be between 1" and 1.125".
To use the lumber, it has to be planed flat and jointed so the
edges are straight. This is called surfacing. Wood which is
planed on both sides & jointed on both edges is called S4S or
"surfaced 4 sides". If the faces are surfaced, but the edges
aren't jointed, it's S2S, surfaced 2 sides. Occasionally both
sides & 1 edge are done, S3S.
After surfacing, the lumber is, obviously, thinner. It's usual
to continue referring to it by the original thickness, tho. As
a rule, 4/4 lumber is 13/16ths thick after surfacing, so if you
buy 4/4 S4S lumber you should expect it to be 13/16ths. Sometimes
it's surfaced all the way down to 3/4 (which is a bit of a pain,
since you can't clean up any surface markings without making it
thinner yet).
John
Wait a few weeks before you confuse him. LOL
"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:56:06 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Thanks I now may understand the talk around here
>
> Maybe, but not just based on that last response. 4/4 could actually
> mean say 13/16ths depending on how it's milled.
>
> JP
Amen! Brother Hoyt!
Very True ! Someday I will get my very own membership card also.
Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> JP is certainly correct. IMHO, I think Rich needs more than that. IMHO = In My Humble
> Opinion.
>
> Dressed lumber from BORG = Home Depot, et al, meaning planed four sides = dressed all
> sides, both faces and both edges. A tuba is less than 4X2, etc.
>
> Play nice here and you will learn a heck a lot of good info from these wood-working
> veterans. Trust me. I am a newbe also and not an original card carrying original Rec.
> I hope to be admitted one day into their inner sanctum. At 70 years old, and a
> retired NASA engineer who designed and developed the 10-foot Lunar Drill, I tip my
> dusty hat to each and all of them. I screwed royally up with a highly inappropriate
> slam against Lee Valley a while back. That will never happen again from me. Each of
> these veterans have there own significant histories. Listen to them and learn. You
> can do far worse.
> Hoyt
>
> "Bill
>
> > Wait a few weeks before you confuse him. LOL
> >
> > "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:56:06 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Thanks I now may understand the talk around here
> > >
> > > Maybe, but not just based on that last response. 4/4 could actually
> > > mean say 13/16ths depending on how it's milled.
> > >
> > > JP
>
> --
geeze now I'm gonna get confused!!!
You all here must really bear with me for a time, I took woodworking WAY
back in high school. I now have a home shop with a good bit of power tools,
I am starting out by making bird houses and feeders as well as cutting
boards. I would like to make a table saw table next. So look out for me for
questions
Thanks in advance'
Rich