I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
and those who chose round like round.
I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
way or the other and later regretted it?
I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
square.
-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
In article <[email protected]>, Rob V
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Round dogs w/ a rectangle that fits over the top of it.
> Helps prevent little marks in the side of your boards when you hold it w/
> your vise.
The latest Woodsmith has a neat tip involving a dowel to fit the round
dog hole and a stove bolt. Cut a kerf in the dowel and use a wing knob
to tighten the bolt, causing the dowel to expand and lock into the hole
for holding a variety of jigs.
I'm going to build a few.
That is what I use too. Start with a 1" x 1-1/4" rectangle about 5" long,
mount in the lathe between centers and turn down all but 1" to slip fit the
dog holes. Saw a split in the round lengthwise at 1/3 the diameter up to a
half inch of the rectangular head. The split should be positioned closest
to the side that will be the face of the dog. This ensures the dog will
always slip fit even when the dog holes have a bit of crud. The whole thing
takes about 5 minutes each. Cut the 1" head down to whatever height you
need when working with thin stock. Angle the face of the rectangle a bit if
you like the effect of pulling stock down to the bench.
Rob, your description sounds like you make little rectangles with a hole
that slips over the top end of a dog dowel. That works too and is easier
for the non-turner.
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop
"Rob V" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Round dogs w/ a rectangle that fits over the top of it.
> Helps prevent little marks in the side of your boards when you hold it w/
> your vise.
[email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder) makes the cast:
> So put a round dog in the square hole. I never did buy this argument
> for round dog holes.
[He waits for the rings to settle and gives the lure a twitch]:
> You can put a round dog in a square hole just fine. It's possible
> to put a square dog in a round hole, though the corners (if it's wood)
> will get scrunched, and of course, you don't have the usual advantages
> of a square dog.
[Another pause, then two twitches]:
> The best reason to make round dog holes is because the bench is
> already built. During construction, it's just as simple to make
> square/rectangular dog holes.
[And finally, he starts walking-the-dog back to the boat]:
> BTW, it's simpler to make your own square/rectangular dogs than round.
<raises hand> Excuse me ... Perfesser Thunder ... over here ... er,
sir ... what could be simpler than to take a length of 3/4" dowel and
cut a flat on it? Or if you wanted to really make it complicated, you
could take a small square of wood, drill a hole in it and glue a dowel
in the hole.
I mean ... when I registered, they told me this class was for
woodworkers ...
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Now excuse me while I try to extract that treble
hook from my lip.
[email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Conan The Librarian) writes:
>
> > <raises hand> Excuse me ... Perfesser Thunder ... over here ... er,
> > sir ... what could be simpler than to take a length of 3/4" dowel and
> > cut a flat on it? Or if you wanted to really make it complicated, you
> > could take a small square of wood, drill a hole in it and glue a dowel
> > in the hole.
>
> I always have plenty of 4/4 scraps lying around the shop, but I never
> seem to have dowels. Also, I like to make my dogs with one of
> those springy thingys to hold them in place. IMHO, it's easier
> to make square/rectangular bench dogs.
I understand your point about the springy things, but disagree with
which is generally easier to make (assuming you have both round and
square stock in your shop). And if you need to retrofit a doghole or
twenty into your bench, which is easier to make?
> But you know me, I'm just contrary. :)
Hmmm ... I'll bet you cut pins first when you do dovetails, too.
:-)
> I also refuse to put a "finish" on my bench. Discerning eyes
> (and closet voyeurs) can take a peek:
>
> http://www.math.niu.edu/~jthunder/PDRM0020.JPG
>
> NB: That pic is from our former chateau, not the new and improved version.
> Also, you'll be happy to know that salsa jar really contains some
> jenyouwine Paddylac (tm), Chuck.
>
> (The truely masochistic may take advantage of the full tour at
> http://www.math.niu.edu/~jthunder/shoppics.html.)
That was fun, thanks. But I notice a dearth of hand-powered tools.
I could have sworn you had *some* neanderish tendencies.
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Aside from that, you seem like a nice enough
guy. ;-)
I have a Garden Way bench purchased a zillion years ago. It has 2-inch long
dog pegs that are 3/4-inch round steel, that fit in 1-inch deep holes in the
maple top. The dogs can be used as a bench stop. In addition to the dogs,
there are square maple blocks that fit over the dog pegs and are free to
swivel to hold various shapes. The bench has two wooden vises; one end vise
and one side vise. The top of the wooden vises are flush with the bench
top. Optionally, the vise faces can be rotated 180 degrees so the vise face
is proud of the bench top and clamp work between the vise face and the
dogs/blocks.
I keep telling myself I need to add more round hole locations. Since I'm
able hold stuff without drilling more holes, adding holes is not high on my
To-Do list. I call the round holes that I may add someday 'round tuits'
Anyone else have a Garden Way Maple Woodworking Workbench?
Jack Flatley
"Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Round holes are easy to make accurately.
> I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
> Wilson
> "John Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
> > square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
> > posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
> > their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
> > and those who chose round like round.
> >
> > I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
> > but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
> > way or the other and later regretted it?
> >
> > I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
> > from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
> > square.
> >
> >
> > -- jc
> > Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
> > If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
>
>
"John Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
> square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
> posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
> their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
> and those who chose round like round.
>
> I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
> but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
> way or the other and later regretted it?
>
> I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
> from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
> square.
>
My dogs are all turned from square stock. The heads are straight/square so
they don't mark the work, and the tails are round to fit in round holes, and
so that the square head can fit angled work.
I'm trying to figure out why any other shapes would be contemplated.
--
Conehead
"John Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I was thinking I could do that if for some reason I needed a
> square-faced dog. But I hadn't thought about the round ones making
> dimples in the wood. Thanks for the tip.
> -- jc
Check out the bench dogs at Lee Valley. Round, but have a flat face. They
also have a wonder dog clamp and hold downs.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
I haven't built a bench yet, hoping to this summer. But my Dad built
his way back just before the last Ice Age when he was just starting
out and didn't have much in the way of tools or skills yet. He made
his dog holes round. For his dogs he used corresponding diameter
dowel rod (1" or 1 1/4" if memory serves). Then he drilled out a
matching hole in a 3/4" thick square (2" on a side maybe) which he
attached to the top of the dog by cutting a kerf in the dowel and
wedging it tight to the hole in the square. All sharp edges and
corners were eased with a dose of sandpaper. The flat surface doesn't
leave any dimples and the round shape allows the dog to rotate and
grab the work at an odd angle if need be. I'm planning to do mine the
same way.
John Carlson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
> square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
> posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
> their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
> and those who chose round like round.
>
> I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
> but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
> way or the other and later regretted it?
>
> I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
> from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
> square.
>
>
> -- jc
> Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
> If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
Round holes are easy to make accurately.
I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
Wilson
"John Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
> square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
> posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
> their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
> and those who chose round like round.
>
> I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
> but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
> way or the other and later regretted it?
>
> I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
> from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
> square.
>
>
> -- jc
> Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
> If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
Round dogs w/ a rectangle that fits over the top of it.
Helps prevent little marks in the side of your boards when you hold it w/
your vise.
"Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Round holes are easy to make accurately.
> I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
> Wilson
> "John Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
> > square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
> > posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
> > their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
> > and those who chose round like round.
> >
> > I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
> > but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
> > way or the other and later regretted it?
> >
> > I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
> > from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
> > square.
> >
> >
> > -- jc
> > Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
> > If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
>
>
Made mine from 3/4" diameter and simply cut a piece out of the top to give a
flat bearing surface. Been using them for nigh on 25 years with out any
problems. Did it this way as it was all I had at the time and I couldn't
afford the flat ones. This philosophy also meant that the end vice on my
bench was made with a 1 1/4" left hand threaded piece of stainless steel. I
must be the only person that knows which way to open it without thinking!
Alan
"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That is what I use too. Start with a 1" x 1-1/4" rectangle about 5" long,
> mount in the lathe between centers and turn down all but 1" to slip fit
the
> dog holes. Saw a split in the round lengthwise at 1/3 the diameter up to
a
> half inch of the rectangular head. The split should be positioned closest
> to the side that will be the face of the dog. This ensures the dog will
> always slip fit even when the dog holes have a bit of crud. The whole
thing
> takes about 5 minutes each. Cut the 1" head down to whatever height you
> need when working with thin stock. Angle the face of the rectangle a bit
if
> you like the effect of pulling stock down to the bench.
>
> Rob, your description sounds like you make little rectangles with a hole
> that slips over the top end of a dog dowel. That works too and is easier
> for the non-turner.
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop
>
>
> "Rob V" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Round dogs w/ a rectangle that fits over the top of it.
> > Helps prevent little marks in the side of your boards when you hold it
w/
> > your vise.
>
>
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:14:48 GMT, "Rob V" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Round dogs w/ a rectangle that fits over the top of it.
>Helps prevent little marks in the side of your boards when you hold it w/
>your vise.
>
I have dozens of oddly shaped blocks I drop on my round dogs .
Some with rubber sides for gripping that slippery stuff.
>
>"Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Round holes are easy to make accurately.
>> I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
>> Wilson
>> "John Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > I'm building my first real workbench and trying to decide on round vs.
>> > square dogs. I've gone through the archives and found a number of
>> > posts on the subject but nothing definitive. It seems like both have
>> > their pros and cons, and those who chose square dogs like square dogs
>> > and those who chose round like round.
>> >
>> > I don't want to re-hash all the discussions that have gone on before,
>> > but I would like to ask one question: Is there anybody who chose one
>> > way or the other and later regretted it?
>> >
>> > I'm leaning toward round, so I'd be especially interested in hearing
>> > from anybody who used round dogs and later wished he'd gone with
>> > square.
>> >
>> >
>> > -- jc
>> > Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
>> > If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
>>
>>
>
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:03:48 GMT, "Wilson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Round holes are easy to make accurately.
I figure square holes won't be hard to make if I make 'em as I'm
putting the top together, so that wasn't a deciding factor
>I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
That's what I'm thinking. If I needed to clamp something on an angle,
or something that wasn't rectangular, it would be easier with round
dogs.
-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
In article <[email protected]>,
John Carlson <[email protected]> writes:
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:03:48 GMT, "Wilson" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
> That's what I'm thinking. If I needed to clamp something on an angle,
> or something that wasn't rectangular, it would be easier with round
> dogs.
So put a round dog in the square hole. I never did buy this argument
for round dog holes.
You can put a round dog in a square hole just fine. It's possible
to put a square dog in a round hole, though the corners (if it's wood)
will get scrunched, and of course, you don't have the usual advantages
of a square dog.
The best reason to make round dog holes is because the bench is
already built. During construction, it's just as simple to make
square/rectangular dog holes.
BTW, it's simpler to make your own square/rectangular dogs than round.
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Conan The Librarian) writes:
> [email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder) makes the cast:
>> BTW, it's simpler to make your own square/rectangular dogs than round.
>
> <raises hand> Excuse me ... Perfesser Thunder ... over here ... er,
> sir ... what could be simpler than to take a length of 3/4" dowel and
> cut a flat on it? Or if you wanted to really make it complicated, you
> could take a small square of wood, drill a hole in it and glue a dowel
> in the hole.
I always have plenty of 4/4 scraps lying around the shop, but I never
seem to have dowels. Also, I like to make my dogs with one of
those springy thingys to hold them in place. IMHO, it's easier
to make square/rectangular bench dogs.
But you know me, I'm just contrary. :)
I also refuse to put a "finish" on my bench. Discerning eyes
(and closet voyeurs) can take a peek:
http://www.math.niu.edu/~jthunder/PDRM0020.JPG
NB: That pic is from our former chateau, not the new and improved version.
Also, you'll be happy to know that salsa jar really contains some
jenyouwine Paddylac (tm), Chuck.
(The truely masochistic may take advantage of the full tour at
http://www.math.niu.edu/~jthunder/shoppics.html.)
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Conan The Librarian) writes:
> [email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> square stock in your shop). And if you need to retrofit a doghole or
> twenty into your bench, which is easier to make?
As I originally posted, the best reason for round dogholes is because
your bench is already made. I can't be held responsible for your
lack of planning, Chuck. :)
>> But you know me, I'm just contrary. :)
>
> Hmmm ... I'll bet you cut pins first when you do dovetails, too.
>:-)
I follow whatever the Leigh manual says. [rimshot]
>> (The truely masochistic may take advantage of the full tour at
>> http://www.math.niu.edu/~jthunder/shoppics.html.)
>
> That was fun, thanks. But I notice a dearth of hand-powered tools.
> I could have sworn you had *some* neanderish tendencies.
I thought it was clear that you could only see a few tools
in those pics, as the majority were not visible due to my
weak organizational and cleaning skills. And even on a clear
day you won't spy the chisels, scrapers, etc. as they're
in drawers.
The only "cool" neander tools I have are a Sargent VBM smoother
and a MF eggbeater drill. I have a not-too-uncool collection of
handsaws (mostly crosscut, one rip). Their coolness factor is increased
since I sharpen them myself with a reasonably cool collection of files
and a sawset. I have a decidedly uncool old Dunlop block plane
(unused), and several uncool newish Satanly planes (low angle block,
7C, 93). I also have an extremely cool old toolbox (my grandfather's - he
was a mechanic).
The coolest tool I own is a certain used shaper (not the PM in the
pics) with a very flat top. Ask Keeter.
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:14:48 GMT, "Rob V" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Round dogs w/ a rectangle that fits over the top of it.
>Helps prevent little marks in the side of your boards when you hold it w/
>your vise.
>
I was thinking I could do that if for some reason I needed a
square-faced dog. But I hadn't thought about the round ones making
dimples in the wood. Thanks for the tip.
-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
Jeffrey Thunder wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> John Carlson <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:03:48 GMT, "Wilson" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> I'd like my dogs free to point any direction.
>> That's what I'm thinking. If I needed to clamp something on an
>> angle, or something that wasn't rectangular, it would be easier with
>> round dogs.
>
> So put a round dog in the square hole. I never did buy this argument
> for round dog holes.
>
> You can put a round dog in a square hole just fine. It's possible
> to put a square dog in a round hole, though the corners (if it's wood)
> will get scrunched, and of course, you don't have the usual advantages
> of a square dog.
>
> The best reason to make round dog holes is because the bench is
> already built. During construction, it's just as simple to make
> square/rectangular dog holes.
Exactly the reason I'm going with round. I finally took step one to convert
my bench to resemble somthing closer to a woodworker bench. I removed the
4" machinist vise from the right end where it has been for the past 30+
years. I'm going to mount it to a piece of plywood with protruding dowels
to makie it sort of portable. It will work for light use. I have to do a
little modification to the end support to mount the woodworker's vice nce I
get it, then i"ll poke some holes for dogs.
--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome