Greetings and Salutations...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 09:19:39 GMT, BigDog
<[email protected]> wrote:
>OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
>I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
>goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
>first? A joiner or a planer?
>
>--
>BigDog
>To E-mail me, you know what to do.
it depends on what you want to do. However,
in terms of order of usefulness, get the jointer
first. You can always get wood thickness planed
to the appropriate thickness from the dealer for
(essentially) no extra cost. However, a jointer
is the ONLY painless way to end up with boards
that will glue up into a panel without gaps or
dents from the pressure needed from the clamps
to get them together.
The thickness planer is simply the
OTHER half of the toolset needed for preparing
lumber. You HAVE to have the jointer first,
bcause a thickness planer cannot produce
a flat surface. It can only produce a surface
that is parallel to the other face. Joint
first, and get flat, then, thickness plane
to the final thickness.
Having said that..I would also seriously
recommend getting a good bandsaw. It is an
amazingly useful tool. I will often use it
as a cut-off tool or a ripping tool, instead
of firing up the tablesaw. A well-tuned
bandsaw can not only cut curves...but it
can cut laser-stright lines too!
Regards
Dave Mundt
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:13:46 -0500, "Tbone" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Why would a jointer be indispensable for this? I would think that a planer
>would be more indispensable with rough sawn lumber. I can get a clean
>straight edge with my table saw and a good blade but it is not going to
>plane down the wood for me and neither will a jointer unless I get one of
>those 16 inch monsters from Grizzly. I would go for the planer and make
>sure to get a good one.
A jointer will give you one _flat_ face and a straight edge that is 90
degrees to the face.
You can straighten an edge on a tablesaw and you can flatten a face
with a planer. That is, with a whole bunch of futzing around. <G>
The straight edge created on the TS will not be a perfect 90 to the
reference face, unless the face is flattened first. Any twisting,
cupping, or bowing will cause the edge to vary from the face by random
measurements.
Barry
"BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> first? A joiner or a planer?
>
> --
> BigDog
> To E-mail me, you know what to do.
I've dealt alot with rough-sawn hardwoods, either stuff we had milled
ourselves or purchased as rough sawn from the mills. Yes, the saw mill that
doesn't surface wood is the cheapest, even cheaper is green and you dry it
(oak for $1/bf or less).
And we have a good 15" planer that makes lots of chips. But man, when the
board isn't straight, nothing beats a jointer with a nice long bed (Delta
DJ20 or such) for getting a straight edge. Yeah, you can snap a line and
saw it, and saw it, and saw it some more, or get out the trusty 'ole jointer
plane ... hm, I wonder why it's called that ....
The other thing, and this has been noted already, is that to flatten a board
and have one true face the jointer wins out. The feed rollers of the planer
can (not always but can) press the board flat so that it springs back once
out of the machine. On small planers this isn't such an issue, but big ones
with heavy agressive cuts will do it. The kiln/planing mill we used 25
years ago had a machine they called a "surfacer" which was really just
planer with rough feed rollers that would grip and thus didn't need lots of
pressure to feed the stock. Yeah, it left marks on the stock, but the next
stop was the finish planer.
Tim Mueller
(To ward off spammers offering everything from meds to oriental girls, my
e-mail address is distorted. Edit to reply.)
Ok, now I see where you are coming from. I am still fairly new to serious
woodworking and learning new things all of the time. I guess that in order
to seriously work with rough sawn wood, you really need both. A good
jointer to get 1 flat surface and a precise 90 edge to it,
and a planer to get the other side both flat and parallel to the other side.
That makes sense. You could do it with a tablesaw and planer alone, but
would probably waste a lot of time and wood doing it. Thanks for the info.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:13:46 -0500, "Tbone" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Why would a jointer be indispensable for this? I would think that a
planer
> >would be more indispensable with rough sawn lumber. I can get a clean
> >straight edge with my table saw and a good blade but it is not going to
> >plane down the wood for me and neither will a jointer unless I get one of
> >those 16 inch monsters from Grizzly. I would go for the planer and make
> >sure to get a good one.
>
> A jointer will give you one _flat_ face and a straight edge that is 90
> degrees to the face.
>
> You can straighten an edge on a tablesaw and you can flatten a face
> with a planer. That is, with a whole bunch of futzing around. <G>
>
> The straight edge created on the TS will not be a perfect 90 to the
> reference face, unless the face is flattened first. Any twisting,
> cupping, or bowing will cause the edge to vary from the face by random
> measurements.
>
> Barry
I would suggest a jointer. As a cost saving measure I buy rough lumber and
as such a jointer is indispensible.
Buying rough wood also allows me to create projects that are not limited to
3/4" thick wood. :-)
Fred
"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you are buying wood that is bowed and twisted find a better supplier
> That eliminates the need for the jointer for flattening
> You can get a straight edge on the saw actually better and faster than a
> jointer,
> SO its the planer first
> Now you will more than likely get just the opposite opinion from others.
> This is mine, I'm outa here and will not visit this thread again <G>
>
> George
>
> "BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> > I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> > goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> > first? A joiner or a planer?
> >
> > --
> > BigDog
> > To E-mail me, you know what to do.
>
>
Why would a jointer be indispensable for this? I would think that a planer
would be more indispensable with rough sawn lumber. I can get a clean
straight edge with my table saw and a good blade but it is not going to
plane down the wood for me and neither will a jointer unless I get one of
those 16 inch monsters from Grizzly. I would go for the planer and make
sure to get a good one.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Fred MacMurray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I would suggest a jointer. As a cost saving measure I buy rough lumber
and
> as such a jointer is indispensible.
> Buying rough wood also allows me to create projects that are not limited
to
> 3/4" thick wood. :-)
>
> Fred
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > If you are buying wood that is bowed and twisted find a better supplier
> > That eliminates the need for the jointer for flattening
> > You can get a straight edge on the saw actually better and faster than a
> > jointer,
> > SO its the planer first
> > Now you will more than likely get just the opposite opinion from others.
> > This is mine, I'm outa here and will not visit this thread again <G>
> >
> > George
> >
> > "BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> > > I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> > > goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> > > first? A joiner or a planer?
> > >
> > > --
> > > BigDog
> > > To E-mail me, you know what to do.
> >
> >
>
>
"BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> first? A joiner or a planer?
A lot depends on the quality of wood that you buy.
I don't regret buying the planer first. I can get a good edge by using a
sled on the table saw if needed. In my case, I can get a good edge and flat
surface from my wood supplier now also. If you are cutting and drying your
own wood, it may not be as good as what I'm buying, making the joiner more
necessary.
I use the planer to get wood to the thickness I need and a jointer is not
made for that. I can glue up a panel (up to 13") and run that through the
planer to get it perfect.
I've seen some really nasty looking boards that were tamed on a jointer.
I've seen some for sale cheap, but I pass on it for now.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
"BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> first? A joiner or a planer?
Jointer. You can always purchase lumber that's surfaced,
but you'll need a tool to smooth, flatten and square the
edges of boards you run thru your saw(s).
Jim Stuyck
If you are buying wood that is bowed and twisted find a better supplier
That eliminates the need for the jointer for flattening
You can get a straight edge on the saw actually better and faster than a
jointer,
SO its the planer first
Now you will more than likely get just the opposite opinion from others.
This is mine, I'm outa here and will not visit this thread again <G>
George
"BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> first? A joiner or a planer?
>
> --
> BigDog
> To E-mail me, you know what to do.
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 09:19:39 GMT, BigDog
<[email protected]> wrote:
>OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
>I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
>goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
>first? A joiner or a planer?
Absolutely. :)
The real question is "What fits the projects you do?" In my case, the
planer was most important, I use it to thickness the material. For me
that's much more important than a jointer.
Your situation may naturally be different.
Jeff
You won't like this answer, but you need them both, and they work best
together. The edge jointing isn't the main thing. Flattening warp, bow and
twist from the face of boards is my biggest use for a jointer, and after
doing so, the faces are never parallel, thus the need for the planer.
If you absolutely could only get one, then get the planer, and learn to
flatten boards with a hand plane, make the faces parallel and establish your
thickness with the planer, and do your edge jointing with the plane or the
tablesaw w/a good blade. If you do this, save your money and add the jointer
as soon as you can.
Good luck,
Glenn de Souza
Scottsdale, Arizona
"BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> first? A joiner or a planer?
>
> --
> BigDog
> To E-mail me, you know what to do.
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 09:19:39 GMT, BigDog
<[email protected]> wrote:
>which do I need
>first? A joiner or a planer?
What are you making ? How much of it ?
I use my jointer a lot, but it doesn't give a much better edge than a
good cabinet saw and it does nothing that I can't do more slowly with
a hand plane.
My thickness planer (and chip collector) pays for itself, because it
lets me buy cheaper hardwood timber as-sawn, rather than planed.
Planed timber isn't much cheaper than sawn (from the same shop), but
the much cheaper suppliers are those who only sell it as sawn.
--
Smert' spamionam
I started with a planer. I learned how to edge join with a jointer plane.
There is a local millworks that will run panels through their wide sander
for a (not so) nominal charge. Since I bought a jointer, I get much squarer
wood and can work much faster.
It is true that you can buy wood that is already surfaced so you really
don't need the jointer. However, if you let the wood sit around any length
of time, it will warp. In addition, the surfaced wood costs 5-10 times
unsurfaced wood if you scrounge, have logs milled yourself, recycle, etc.
With hurricane Isabel logs, my jointer has/will pay for itself 10 times
over.
Montyhp.
"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you are buying wood that is bowed and twisted find a better supplier
> That eliminates the need for the jointer for flattening
> You can get a straight edge on the saw actually better and faster than a
> jointer,
> SO its the planer first
> Now you will more than likely get just the opposite opinion from others.
> This is mine, I'm outa here and will not visit this thread again <G>
>
> George
>
> "BigDog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > OK, I know this is a tired subject here, but,
> > I can only buy one. I have all the other basic
> > goodies except a bandsaw, so which do I need
> > first? A joiner or a planer?
> >
> > --
> > BigDog
> > To E-mail me, you know what to do.
>
>
That might work if you don't have a table saw.
Montyhp
"Ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Food for though.
>
>
http://www.woodmagazine.com/default.sph/wcontent_user.class?FNC=story1__Acategory2_html___7___47___129___274___1
>
>
> The thickness planer is simply the
> OTHER half of the toolset needed for preparing
> lumber. You HAVE to have the jointer first,
> bcause a thickness planer cannot produce
> a flat surface. It can only produce a surface
> that is parallel to the other face. Joint
> first, and get flat, then, thickness plane
> to the final thickness.
No....... All you have to do is get one surface reasonably flat, and a
thickness planer can do the rest. Last I checked, a couple used planes are
way cheaper than a jointer. (Note that I did NOT say it was faster). Or,
so says the person who's planes are in the mail. I'm pretty certain,
however, that I'd prefer to flatten (mostly, no need to be perfect) with
hand planes and thickness by machine, than flatten by machine and thickness
(perfectly) by hand.
--randy