Shop Heater for Rented Home?

Robert Bonomi wrote:

> *ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the building
> becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it without
> the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.




Wouldn't that be a bite in the ass.

Lose the security deposit because you damage the building, then not be
able to take the heater with you because it's part of the property.



--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

If the owner won't mind a four inch hole through the outside wall,
then you might consider a pellet stove. I use a small, older stove to
heat my 3000 sq ft shop for around $1 a day.

"Tbone" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Just a thought, but you might want to contact the owner and make sure that
> it is ok with him to punch a hole in the wall of his house. I would be
> pretty pissed if you did that to me without asking. Unless you spend a lot
> of time is a cold shop, you might want to consider an electric heater
> (220V).
>
> --
> If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
>
> "Bestest Handsander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have 18'x22' garage dedicated as a woodworking shop. But I'm cold. I
> > currently use a propane fired convection heater like this one from Mr.
> > Heater
> >
> >
> http://www.tool-universe.com/m/Mr_Heater/Mr_Heater_80_000_BTU_Propane_Convec
> > tion_Heater_Model_F172080_503598.htm
> >
> > but I don't like the smell, open flame, and lack of thermostat. I'd like
> to
> > install a externally vented gas heater such as the Hot Dawg with a control
> > thermostat, but the problem is that I rent the house. So, a permanent
> > installation isn't attractive.
> >
> > I could use either propane or natural gas. Of course if I use NG I'd have
> > to have a contractor come in and run the gas line. If I use Propone,
> could
> > I just stand a 100 gal tank against the wall and run the line to the
> heater?
> > Or do they require a more permanent installation? I realize I'll have to
> > vent it to the outside. But I figure when I leave I could just pull the
> > heater, tank, and venting, and leave just a nice vent cover in the wall.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >

In article <[email protected]>,
Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>> *ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the building
>> becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it without
>> the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.
>
>
>
>
>Wouldn't that be a bite in the ass.
>
>Lose the security deposit because you damage the building, then not be
>able to take the heater with you because it's part of the property.
>
>

*EXACTLY*CORRECT*. Unfortunately such events are _not_ as rare as one
would hope. There's a *lot* of 'ignorance' out there. <wry grin>

That makes me wonder if my dust collector hanging from chains and hooks in
the ceiling is now my landlord's property! :)

Thanks for all the insight. Still not sure what I'm going to do, but all of
your advice certainly has saved me a lot of headaches.

Thanks

"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> B a r r y B u r k e J r . <*removethis*[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:24:19 +0000, [email protected]
> >(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>*ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the
building
> >>becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it without
> >>the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.
> >
> >What law is that? This sounds like something that could vary from
> >locality to locality.
>
> It is NOT in statute, nor ordinance. It is part of the "common law"
> heritage going back literally hundreds of years.
>
> If a thing is permanently attached to a piece of real property, it becomes
> _part_ of that real property. And, as such, the ownership of that 'thing'
> which was attached to the real property transfers _to_the_owner_ of the
real
> property to which it was attached.
>
> "Nuts & bolts", "screws", "glue", "molly bolts", "toggle bolts",
"permanent"
> double-sided sticky tape are _all_ considered means of "permanent"
attachment.
> "Removable" double-sided sticky tape is not. Nor is 'scotch(tm) tape, or
> cellophane tape, or masking tape. Not even "duck tape". "Velcro"(tm) or
other
> "hook-and-loop" fastener is not considered permanent -- except for the 1/2
> of the fastener (itself) that happens to be 'permanently attached' to a
wall
> or whatever.
>
> "Construction staples" _are_ considered permanent, while 'desk stapler'
> staples are _not_ (*DON'T* ask me 'why its different', I _don't_ know :)
>
> Curtains, on a rod are not permanent additions, although the curtain rod
> itself usually is. 'Blinds' are a _really_ messy subject -- cases have
> gone both ways, depending on the precise construction/mounting.
>
> Wall cabinets raise some interesting issues, too. If they're
bolted/screwed
> to the wall, they're 'permanent'. If they're just hanging on a French
cleat,
> they're *not*. (although the wall-side half of the cleat *is*).
>
> There is *lots* of case-law on point. *VERY*LITTLE*, if anything,
approaching
> "recent" regarding a dispute over whether a thing "is or is not
permanently
> attached", however -- *that* has been a 'solved problem' for a long time.
:)
>
>
>
>
> If you _don't_ have an *explicit* agreement with the owner about what you
> can do (and, equally important, "can undo"), any 'improvements' you make
*DO*
> become the property of the owner.
>
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y B u r k e J r . <*removethis*[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:24:19 +0000, [email protected]
>(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>
>>*ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the building
>>becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it without
>>the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.
>
>What law is that? This sounds like something that could vary from
>locality to locality.

It is NOT in statute, nor ordinance. It is part of the "common law"
heritage going back literally hundreds of years.

If a thing is permanently attached to a piece of real property, it becomes
_part_ of that real property. And, as such, the ownership of that 'thing'
which was attached to the real property transfers _to_the_owner_ of the real
property to which it was attached.

"Nuts & bolts", "screws", "glue", "molly bolts", "toggle bolts", "permanent"
double-sided sticky tape are _all_ considered means of "permanent" attachment.
"Removable" double-sided sticky tape is not. Nor is 'scotch(tm) tape, or
cellophane tape, or masking tape. Not even "duck tape". "Velcro"(tm) or other
"hook-and-loop" fastener is not considered permanent -- except for the 1/2
of the fastener (itself) that happens to be 'permanently attached' to a wall
or whatever.

"Construction staples" _are_ considered permanent, while 'desk stapler'
staples are _not_ (*DON'T* ask me 'why its different', I _don't_ know :)

Curtains, on a rod are not permanent additions, although the curtain rod
itself usually is. 'Blinds' are a _really_ messy subject -- cases have
gone both ways, depending on the precise construction/mounting.

Wall cabinets raise some interesting issues, too. If they're bolted/screwed
to the wall, they're 'permanent'. If they're just hanging on a French cleat,
they're *not*. (although the wall-side half of the cleat *is*).

There is *lots* of case-law on point. *VERY*LITTLE*, if anything, approaching
"recent" regarding a dispute over whether a thing "is or is not permanently
attached", however -- *that* has been a 'solved problem' for a long time. :)




If you _don't_ have an *explicit* agreement with the owner about what you
can do (and, equally important, "can undo"), any 'improvements' you make *DO*
become the property of the owner.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:24:19 +0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:


>*ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the building
>becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it without
>the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.

What law is that? This sounds like something that could vary from
locality to locality.

How about checking the lease?

Barry

Just a thought, but you might want to contact the owner and make sure that
it is ok with him to punch a hole in the wall of his house. I would be
pretty pissed if you did that to me without asking. Unless you spend a lot
of time is a cold shop, you might want to consider an electric heater
(220V).

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

"Bestest Handsander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have 18'x22' garage dedicated as a woodworking shop. But I'm cold. I
> currently use a propane fired convection heater like this one from Mr.
> Heater
>
>
http://www.tool-universe.com/m/Mr_Heater/Mr_Heater_80_000_BTU_Propane_Convec
> tion_Heater_Model_F172080_503598.htm
>
> but I don't like the smell, open flame, and lack of thermostat. I'd like
to
> install a externally vented gas heater such as the Hot Dawg with a control
> thermostat, but the problem is that I rent the house. So, a permanent
> installation isn't attractive.
>
> I could use either propane or natural gas. Of course if I use NG I'd have
> to have a contractor come in and run the gas line. If I use Propone,
could
> I just stand a 100 gal tank against the wall and run the line to the
heater?
> Or do they require a more permanent installation? I realize I'll have to
> vent it to the outside. But I figure when I leave I could just pull the
> heater, tank, and venting, and leave just a nice vent cover in the wall.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
>

Contact the owner and see if the two of you can work it out. I've had times
when renters have wanted something for their immediate benefit that added to
the value of my property so we shared the cost. In your situation, if
you're willing to buy the heater I bet the owner might be willing to pay for
the plumbing to it. You can figure out other options that might be more
appealing to you, but the point is that if the owner gets something in
return he/she might be willing to foot some of the cost. You have to figure
out what you'd be willing to spend and leave with the owner when you leave.
If you plan on staying a year you might not want to spend $500, but if you
plan on staying three years and can find a heater for $300 maybe that would
be reasonable to you to stay warm.

And I believe pretty much everywhere in the U.S. anything you install
"permanently" becomes the property of the owner. Lastly, someone else owns
the house so before you punch a vent hole in the wall you really should talk
to the owner about it. It's just not cool to drill a big hole in someone
else's property. I.e. the owner may get very pissed.

--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Bestest Handsander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have 18'x22' garage dedicated as a woodworking shop. But I'm cold. I
> currently use a propane fired convection heater like this one from Mr.
> Heater
>
>
http://www.tool-universe.com/m/Mr_Heater/Mr_Heater_80_000_BTU_Propane_Convec
> tion_Heater_Model_F172080_503598.htm
>
> but I don't like the smell, open flame, and lack of thermostat. I'd like
to
> install a externally vented gas heater such as the Hot Dawg with a control
> thermostat, but the problem is that I rent the house. So, a permanent
> installation isn't attractive.
>
> I could use either propane or natural gas. Of course if I use NG I'd have
> to have a contractor come in and run the gas line. If I use Propone,
could
> I just stand a 100 gal tank against the wall and run the line to the
heater?
> Or do they require a more permanent installation? I realize I'll have to
> vent it to the outside. But I figure when I leave I could just pull the
> heater, tank, and venting, and leave just a nice vent cover in the wall.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
Bestest Handsander <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have 18'x22' garage dedicated as a woodworking shop. But I'm cold. I
>currently use a propane fired convection heater like this one from Mr.
>Heater
>
>http://www.tool-universe.com/m/Mr_Heater/Mr_Heater_80_000_BTU_Propane_Convec
>tion_Heater_Model_F172080_503598.htm
>
>but I don't like the smell, open flame, and lack of thermostat. I'd like to
>install a externally vented gas heater such as the Hot Dawg with a control
>thermostat, but the problem is that I rent the house. So, a permanent
>installation isn't attractive.
>
>I could use either propane or natural gas. Of course if I use NG I'd have
>to have a contractor come in and run the gas line. If I use Propone, could
>I just stand a 100 gal tank against the wall and run the line to the heater?
>Or do they require a more permanent installation? I realize I'll have to
>vent it to the outside. But I figure when I leave I could just pull the
>heater, tank, and venting, and leave just a nice vent cover in the wall.
>
>Thoughts?

*ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the building
becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it without
the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.

I know that _seems_ silly for something *you* paid for and installed, but
that IS the way the law reads.

The thing to do is _discuss_ the matter with the owner, get *permission*
to (a) install, and (b) _remove_ when you leave, the heater. And make
sure that _whatever_ agreement you come to, you have everything *IN*WRITING*.

While the dust collector is not, the hooks probably now are.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving


"Bestest Handsander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That makes me wonder if my dust collector hanging from chains and hooks in
> the ceiling is now my landlord's property! :)
>
> Thanks for all the insight. Still not sure what I'm going to do, but all
of
> your advice certainly has saved me a lot of headaches.
>
> Thanks
>
> "Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > B a r r y B u r k e J r . <*removethis*[email protected]> wrote:
> > >On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:24:19 +0000, [email protected]
> > >(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>*ANYTHING* that is 'permanently attached' to the structure of the
> building
> > >>becomes the property of the _owner_ of the building. Remove it
without
> > >>the permission of the owner, and you could get charged with theft.
> > >
> > >What law is that? This sounds like something that could vary from
> > >locality to locality.
> >
> > It is NOT in statute, nor ordinance. It is part of the "common law"
> > heritage going back literally hundreds of years.
> >
> > If a thing is permanently attached to a piece of real property, it
becomes
> > _part_ of that real property. And, as such, the ownership of that
'thing'
> > which was attached to the real property transfers _to_the_owner_ of the
> real
> > property to which it was attached.
> >
> > "Nuts & bolts", "screws", "glue", "molly bolts", "toggle bolts",
> "permanent"
> > double-sided sticky tape are _all_ considered means of "permanent"
> attachment.
> > "Removable" double-sided sticky tape is not. Nor is 'scotch(tm) tape,
or
> > cellophane tape, or masking tape. Not even "duck tape". "Velcro"(tm) or
> other
> > "hook-and-loop" fastener is not considered permanent -- except for the
1/2
> > of the fastener (itself) that happens to be 'permanently attached' to a
> wall
> > or whatever.
> >
> > "Construction staples" _are_ considered permanent, while 'desk stapler'
> > staples are _not_ (*DON'T* ask me 'why its different', I _don't_ know :)
> >
> > Curtains, on a rod are not permanent additions, although the curtain rod
> > itself usually is. 'Blinds' are a _really_ messy subject -- cases have
> > gone both ways, depending on the precise construction/mounting.
> >
> > Wall cabinets raise some interesting issues, too. If they're
> bolted/screwed
> > to the wall, they're 'permanent'. If they're just hanging on a French
> cleat,
> > they're *not*. (although the wall-side half of the cleat *is*).
> >
> > There is *lots* of case-law on point. *VERY*LITTLE*, if anything,
> approaching
> > "recent" regarding a dispute over whether a thing "is or is not
> permanently
> > attached", however -- *that* has been a 'solved problem' for a long
time.
> :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you _don't_ have an *explicit* agreement with the owner about what
you
> > can do (and, equally important, "can undo"), any 'improvements' you make
> *DO*
> > become the property of the owner.
> >
> >
> >
>
>