Measuring Devices / Tape Measures

That's exactly the reason I have three 30' in the shop, there is always one
laying around somewhere.

Dave

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> snip
>
> > > AAMOF, tape measures aren't even necessary in woodworking. Many
furniture
> > > and cabinet makers go with a stick with the project measurements
marked
> > off linearly. It's called a "story stick" and is much more accurate than
using
> > a tape measure. Save the story stick and you can build another project
with
> > > the _exact_ same dimensions as the original 50 years later ... you
can't
> > do that with a tape measure unless you use the same one.
> > >
>
> >
> > Are you kidding me? I'm not sure where my tape measure is 50% of the
time
> > and I'm going to keep track of a stick for 50 years? ;-)
> >
> > todd
>
> That was a laugh out loud one! I'm sure there are european trained
> furniture makers who can and do keep story sticks for 50 years. Me,
> I'm with Todd. If they'd just put a "page" function like on
> portable phones, on pocket tapes ...
>
> Actual "measured" lengths aren't that important (unless you're
> doing built ins. Its far more important that all parts that
> are supposed to be the same length are in fact the same
> length. If I need parts to fit between A and B I put two
> sticks - with sqaure ends, in the space, slide them to fit
> the desired distance and clamp them together. On the SCMA
> I use the sticks to set the stop and cut all those parts at
> the same time. As long as the parts fit properly I don't
> care what the tape measured length is.
>
> charlie b

"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> that I try to avoid using.
> Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
> I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the
more
> expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
> have.

You'd think the guys that make them would have figured out how to do it
right my now. You and I know better. Flatten out that bent end first. Then
beat the rivet with a hammer a few times until the loose end doesn't move.

Just curious, what kind of fishing line do you use?
Ed

Smells fishy!
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
> used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think
about
> the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
> Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
> I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the
more
> expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
> have.
>
> I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
6",
> because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
> What does everyone else use?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Nick B
>
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
Nick Bozovich <[email protected]> wrote:
>I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
>used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think about
>the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
>Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
>toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
>I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the more
>expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
>have.
>
>I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" - 6",
>because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
>What does everyone else use?
>
>Thanks -
>
>Nick B
>
>

I use a tape measure for anything over 3 feet or so. It has a loose
edge so that it measures the same when you hook the end over
something, as when you are pushing the end against something. Try your
tape measure hooked over the end of a ruler, then put the ruler end
down on the bench, with the tape measure end next to it on the bench.
If the tape measure is not worn or damaged it will read the same.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 2:12am (EST+5) [email protected] (Nick=A0Bozovich) says:
<snip> What does everyone else use?

Three tape measures, with the loose ends, and a 3" aluminum
yardstick, mostly.

They're made that way. I don't recall just why, just now. I don't
have problems with the accuracy of mine.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 3 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

> These days, it's the painters, with their caulk guns, who make things fit.

"Putty and paint,
Make a carpenter what he ain't"

I heard that one when i was given the job of famowoodin' a lot of stuff.

I wonder how old it is.

>Nick Bozovich wrote:
worthless tape measure I have in my shop that I try to avoid using.
> Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
>toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".

Hey Nick, that looseness might be to allow the tape to measure both inside and
outside spans. See if the distance the tape moves on the end is the same as the
thickness of the end. Good luck. Tom

Someday, it'll all be over....

snip

> > AAMOF, tape measures aren't even necessary in woodworking. Many furniture
> > and cabinet makers go with a stick with the project measurements marked
> off linearly. It's called a "story stick" and is much more accurate than using
> a tape measure. Save the story stick and you can build another project with
> > the _exact_ same dimensions as the original 50 years later ... you can't
> do that with a tape measure unless you use the same one.
> >

>
> Are you kidding me? I'm not sure where my tape measure is 50% of the time
> and I'm going to keep track of a stick for 50 years? ;-)
>
> todd

That was a laugh out loud one! I'm sure there are european trained
furniture makers who can and do keep story sticks for 50 years. Me,
I'm with Todd. If they'd just put a "page" function like on
portable phones, on pocket tapes ...

Actual "measured" lengths aren't that important (unless you're
doing built ins. Its far more important that all parts that
are supposed to be the same length are in fact the same
length. If I need parts to fit between A and B I put two
sticks - with sqaure ends, in the space, slide them to fit
the desired distance and clamp them together. On the SCMA
I use the sticks to set the stop and cut all those parts at
the same time. As long as the parts fit properly I don't
care what the tape measured length is.

charlie b

Silvan wrote:
>
> Roy Smith wrote:
>
> > the last time. Of course, sometimes I have trouble remembering where I
> > put it down the last time :-)
> >
> > "Wherever you go, there you are"
>
> and the key to finding something is to remember that no matter what or where
> it is, it's always in the last place you look.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Not true. Not true. Hear that all the time, but it is not
true. I often give up and send my wife to look and it is
often where I first looked, and seldom where I last looked.
Let's get rid of this supposed logical statement, because it
just isn't true.

In rec.woodworking
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" - 6",
>because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
>What does everyone else use?

A tape measure but always consider it a "rough" measurement unless I can
hold off an inch on the end.

Greetings and Salutations.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 09:32:19 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
*snip*
>Tolerances used to be that way down here, but with the advent of
>"carpenters" named after Mary's son, and who hail from places with no wood
>whatsoever, the framers seem to think 1/2" is close enough, and the finish
>guys 1/4".
>
>These days, it's the painters, with their caulk guns, who make things fit.
>
Hum...it is my understanding that this is hardly a new thing.
Back when "drywall" was actually "Plaster put on by skilled workers"
the attitude of the carpenters was "get it pretty close and the
plasterers will fix it".
regards
Dave Mundt

I use the same tape (12' Stanley) for most everything. It's
hooked onto my britches every day of the world. Most of my
right-hand pockets show wear from constantly wearing the
damn thing. It's been calibrated at the hook using a six-inch
machinist's rule. I never let the hook slam home, brake with
the fingers and cushion the hook with finger. I also occaisionally
use a metric/inch 16' Stanley I've calibrated the same way.
I'm shocked at the number of the posters who don't understand
the function of the sliding hook--I thought everybody knew.
Another real handy one is a 60" x 2" steel rule. I have 2 of
them, they're real handy for marking sheet stuff. Because I'm
a gun crank, I have from 4" dial calipers to 12" digital.
Roger--peanut gallery, Montana







"Howard Ruttan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Nick Bozovich" wrote ...
> > I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
> > used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think
> about
> > the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
> > Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> > toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
> >
> > I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the
> more
> > expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
> > have.
> >
> > I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
> 6",
> > because the tape measure isn't reliable.
> >
> > What does everyone else use?
>
> The slop in the end of the tape is there by design - it is equal to the
> thickness of the piece of metal that is used as the hook on the end. Of
> course that only lasts until the first few times you unlock the tape while a
> few feet are rolled out and let it snap back throwing the end out of whack
> (especially by the standards of some of those around here with really high
> expectations for accuracy - another story).
>
> I prefer a steel rule. It may be out of whack but I use only one measuring
> device so everything will be out by the same amount. While the tape measure
> is designed to be more accurate for house framing, you can use it too, as
> long as you use only the one tape measure, the same way, for everything.

Jim K wrote:

> If you have a yardstick, tape measure, framing square, etc. laying
> around compare the marking of each. You're probably (I'd say almost
> positively) going to find differences among them. I just read some
> test where a guy bought several tape measures (some were the make and
> model) and compared the sizes and found them all to have slight
> differences in accuracy.


Yes, but the better tapes are more consistent.


Tape measures? 1) The end on most (all?) are slightly bent back to the
blade to aid in hooking on the material being measured. 2) Letting the
tape slap back into the case tends to straighten this bend back and / or
break the tape and / or put undue wear on the rivets. 3) Better tapes
have an extended tang for the hook and 3 (or more?) rivets.

I check my tape(s) against a steel rule. If you do this don't forget
about the bend back on the hook. I've found tapes have gotten much more
accurate, at least between the numbers. Most need tweaking of the hook.


What do I use? Mostly a tape (Latest is a Fat Max, didn't like it at
first but has come to fit my hand), 12 and 24 inch steel rule. The rules
are Blue Point and Lufkin, not the scrap found at BORG.



> Try to use just one measuring tool for one project or compare them and
> realize that an inch isn't always an inch.


I've heard this since I was a child, use the same tool from beginning to
end. Doesn't matter much with quality steel rules and better (machine
tooling), makes all the difference in wood tools.



--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

"Nick Bozovich" wrote in message

> Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".

That is a "feature" that is actually by design on most tape measures so that
you can take accurate inside measurements.The amount of slop should be equal
to the thickness of the hook ... generally about 1/6th or so.

> I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
6",
> because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
> What does everyone else use?

The "accuracy" of a particular tape measure is completely irrelevant as long
as you ALWAYS use the same one.

AAMOF, tape measures aren't even necessary in woodworking. Many furniture
and cabinet makers go with a stick with the project measurements marked off
linearly. It's called a "story stick" and is much more accurate than using a
tape measure. Save the story stick and you can build another project with
the _exact_ same dimensions as the original 50 years later ... you can't do
that with a tape measure unless you use the same one.

The moral, because tape measures to come in handy, is to buy a well made one
that will last a long time and use it exclusively ... again, the "accuracy"
of the tool is irrelevant.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/02/04

No machine can think. You still have to set it up.

"Joseph Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:gjoKb.284792$Ec1.9814167@bgtnsc05- It's a no win
> situation unless you can afford one of those industrial computerized
> thingmeees that remotely adjust everything , set it up, and cut the
> wood for ya. And just where would the fun in that be?

"roger" spake thusly:

> I use the same tape (12' Stanley) for most everything. It's
> hooked onto my britches every day of the world. Most of my
> right-hand pockets show wear from constantly wearing the
> damn thing. It's been calibrated at the hook using a six-inch
> machinist's rule. I never let the hook slam home, brake with
> the fingers and cushion the hook with finger.

My favorite band tape and length also. Have two for the shop, one for the
vehicle I use to go to the lumber yard, and one for the office ... all the
same model 12' Stanley, and all 'calibrated' to a foot when I bought them.
(I used a steel rule in the store to get four that read as close as possible
against the rule ... I really didn't care if the steel rule was accurate or
not, just used it as an index)

<snip>

> I'm shocked at the number of the posters who don't understand
> the function of the sliding hook--I thought everybody knew.

It's amazing how little understanding some folks have of the tools they use.
Someone here not too long ago had been using a miter saw blade backwards,
and another had been _pulling_ his compound miter saw like a RAS to make a
cut.

The hell of it is, I have so many tools that I may well be doing something
equally wrongheaded out of ignorance myself.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/02/04

"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Jim K <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
> I just wish somebody would make a left-handed version of it.

They do. You just have to hold it with your right hand. :)

Primarily a tape measure

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
> used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think
about
> the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
> Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
> I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the
more
> expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
> have.
>
> I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
6",
> because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
> What does everyone else use?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Nick B
>
>

"Dave Mundt" wrote in message

> >These days, it's the painters, with their caulk guns, who make things
fit.
> >
> Hum...it is my understanding that this is hardly a new thing.
> Back when "drywall" was actually "Plaster put on by skilled workers"
> the attitude of the carpenters was "get it pretty close and the
> plasterers will fix it".
> regards
> Dave Mundt


Not around here, at least until the last 25 or so years ... with the
proliferation of unskilled labor, poor wages, and lack of supervision,
workmanship is suffering badly in the building industry in these parts.

The traditional framing carpenter's job was to make the house plumb, level
and square ... hard to do that when 1/2" is now "close enough".

The traditional finish carpenter's job was to make the parts, windows,
doors, trim, etc., fit and "look good". IOW boards meet where they're
supposed to and planned gaps consistent from end to end ... hard to do when
1/4" is now "close enough".

... enter the modern painter and his caulking gun, absolutely necessary to
make the work of today's 'finishing carpenter' "look good".

I know this to be a fact because I just finished building a "custom" home
with a highly touted, supposedly top notch crew, and had to continually
fight shoddy work, with the practice of the above tolerances in daily
application (when they could get away with it) ... work that you wouldn't
have seen in a tract home 30 years ago.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/02/04

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nick Bozovich" wrote in message
>
> > Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape
back
> > toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
> That is a "feature" that is actually by design on most tape measures so
that
> you can take accurate inside measurements.The amount of slop should be
equal
> to the thickness of the hook ... generally about 1/6th or so.
>
> > I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
> 6",
> > because the tape measure isn't reliable.
> >
> > What does everyone else use?
>
> The "accuracy" of a particular tape measure is completely irrelevant as
long
> as you ALWAYS use the same one.
>
> AAMOF, tape measures aren't even necessary in woodworking. Many furniture
> and cabinet makers go with a stick with the project measurements marked
off
> linearly. It's called a "story stick" and is much more accurate than using
a
> tape measure. Save the story stick and you can build another project with
> the _exact_ same dimensions as the original 50 years later ... you can't
do
> that with a tape measure unless you use the same one.
>
> The moral, because tape measures to come in handy, is to buy a well made
one
> that will last a long time and use it exclusively ... again, the
"accuracy"
> of the tool is irrelevant.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 1/02/04

Are you kidding me? I'm not sure where my tape measure is 50% of the time
and I'm going to keep track of a stick for 50 years? ;-)

todd

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> You'd think the guys that make them would have figured out how to do it
> right my now. You and I know better. Flatten out that bent end first.
Then
> beat the rivet with a hammer a few times until the loose end doesn't move.
>
> Just curious, what kind of fishing line do you use?
> Ed


You think he is trolling here... ;~)

"K.-Benoit Evans" wrote in message
> charlie b wrote:
>
> > Actual "measured" lengths aren't that important (unless you're
> > doing built ins. Its far more important that all parts that
> > are supposed to be the same length are in fact the same
> > length.
>
> This is true, unless you have to send your measurements to someone else.
>
> I found that out the hard way once when I ordered a glass table top
> based on a tape measure measurement. Unfortunately, my tape and their
> measurement device did not agree. (I suspect theirs was probably the
> accurate one.)

Done that. Now when ordering glass, particulary if it is to be inset into a
frame of some type, I either have the glass cut first and build to it, send
a template, or take the piece to the glass shop and let them measure it.
Most glass cutters cut to +/- 1/16" tolerance, which, as you noted, can be
problematic when measuring with two different measuring devices..

>
> I checked by tapes and rulers. The straight-edge rulers were very
> accurate. However the tapes were all over the place. After all, they're
> made for construction work, usually for fairly long lengths, and a
> tolerance of plus or minus 1/16 is acceptable (except for finish work).

Tolerances used to be that way down here, but with the advent of
"carpenters" named after Mary's son, and who hail from places with no wood
whatsoever, the framers seem to think 1/2" is close enough, and the finish
guys 1/4".

These days, it's the painters, with their caulk guns, who make things fit.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/02/04

"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| What does everyone else use?

For an inch or less, vernier calipers. For 1-24 inches, a steel rule. For
24 inches or more, a Stanley tape measure. I own several tapes, but I tend
to use the same one for any particular project. And I tend to intentionally
err on the side of leaving material so that I can deal with long cuts
instead of short cuts.

When I can, I "cut to fit," meaning I build the project on the bench and
just concentrate on making it square/flush without paying a lot of attention
to exact measures according to the tape. I'd much rather scribe the actual
piece in place than to measure where it's supposed to go and then measure
the stock. That's two measurements that both have to go right.

But at work I have to deal with metal and plastic, and we farm out parts of
the designs to fab shops and do the rest of the fabrication in house. You
need to work off actual measurements in that case. If I specify in a
drawing a feature with a thickness of 0.500 inch and it comes back from the
fab subcontractor as 0.501 or 0.498 inch, there'll be a phone call. And so
I have to make sure we both have tools that will tell the actual dimension
so I don't embarrass myself in that phone call. He and I have to be on the
same page.

At home, in the shop, is where I get to cut to fit. The organ-builders I
know use story sticks for their standard windchests.

--Jay

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Just curious, what kind of fishing line do you use?
> > Ed
>
> You think he is trolling here... ;~)
>
Naah - couldn't be :-).
___________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please do |
/ O O\__ NOT |
/ \ feed the |
/ \ \ trolls |
/ _ \ \ ______________|
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ \ __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> > Just curious, what kind of fishing line do you use?
>> > Ed
>>
>> You think he is trolling here... ;~)
>>
>Naah - couldn't be :-).
> ___________________
> /| /| | |
> ||__|| | Please do |
> / O O\__ NOT |
> / \ feed the |
> / \ \ trolls |
> / _ \ \ ______________|
> / |\____\ \ ||
> / | | | |\____/ ||
> / \|_|_|/ \ __||
> / / \ |____| ||
> / | | /| | --|
> | | |// |____ --|
> * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
> *-- _--\ _ \ // |
> / _ \\ _ // | /
> * / \_ /- | - | |
> * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
>


>ITYM
> ___________________
> /| /| | |
> ||__|| | Please do |
> / O O\__ NOT |
> / \ troll the |
> / \ \ feeders |
> / _ \ \ ______________|
> / |\____\ \ ||
> / | | | |\____/ ||
> / \|_|_|/ \ __||
> / / \ |____| ||
> / | | /| | --|
> | | |// |____ --|
> * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
> *-- _--\ _ \ // |
> / _ \\ _ // | /
> * / \_ /- | - | |
> * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
>


<snicker>

"todd" wrote in message

> Are you kidding me? I'm not sure where my tape measure is 50% of the time
> and I'm going to keep track of a stick for 50 years? ;-)

LOL ... know the feeling well. However, you may be around in 50 years ...
that's something I don't have to worry about. ;>)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/02/04

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 02:12:10 GMT, "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
>used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think about
>the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
>Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
>toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
>I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the more
>expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
>have.
>
>I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" - 6",
>because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
>What does everyone else use?
>
>Thanks -
>
>Nick B
>
From what I understand the end should slide the thickness of the tab
thingie. This allows you to make inside and outside measurements
without needing to compensate for the end of the tape's tab thickness.

--
John, in Minnesota

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 08:41:57 -0500, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:


>I always know where my tape measure is. It's right where I put it down
>the last time.

I wear a shop apron. This allows me to know where my tape, saddle
square, and 6" combo are 99% of the time. I use the same 18' center
finding tape for all my woodworking.

Of course, my wife recently figured out that the tape is in the apron,
so all bets are off. <G>

Barry

Roy Smith wrote:

> the last time. Of course, sometimes I have trouble remembering where I
> put it down the last time :-)
>
> "Wherever you go, there you are"

and the key to finding something is to remember that no matter what or where
it is, it's always in the last place you look.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I just try to keep everything the same length. I don't know how
many tape measures I have, but I lose em all the time. I just try
to use the same one for the same project. As far accuracy goes,
I don't think it matters. Even if I could get a NIST (National Institute
for
Standards and Technology - formerly NBS-) calibrated/certified
tape measure it wouldn't do me much good, because then my table
saw fence would just decide to act up on me at that moment and time
and screw the whole thing up fractions of an inch. It's a no win
situation unless you can afford one of those industrial computerized
thingmeees that remotely adjust everything , set it up, and cut the
wood for ya. And just where would the fun in that be?

Joey in Chesapeake

"Lawrence Wasserman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Nick Bozovich <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
> >used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think
about
> >the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
> >Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> >toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
> >
> >I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the
more
> >expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one
I
> >have.
> >
> >I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
6",
> >because the tape measure isn't reliable.
> >
> >What does everyone else use?
> >
> >Thanks -
> >
> >Nick B
> >
> >
>
> I use a tape measure for anything over 3 feet or so. It has a loose
> edge so that it measures the same when you hook the end over
> something, as when you are pushing the end against something. Try your
> tape measure hooked over the end of a ruler, then put the ruler end
> down on the bench, with the tape measure end next to it on the bench.
> If the tape measure is not worn or damaged it will read the same.
>
>
> --
>
> Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
> [email protected]
>

As you've already heard, the loose hook on the tape measure is "a
feature not a bug." The big thing in accuracy is to use the same tool
for measurement or make sure all your tools measure the same.

If you have a yardstick, tape measure, framing square, etc. laying
around compare the marking of each. You're probably (I'd say almost
positively) going to find differences among them. I just read some
test where a guy bought several tape measures (some were the make and
model) and compared the sizes and found them all to have slight
differences in accuracy.

Try to use just one measuring tool for one project or compare them and
realize that an inch isn't always an inch.

I use a variety of measuring tools depending on what I'm measuring. I
usually use a tape measure for larger measurements and a Union 12" and
Craftsman 6" square (they both measure the same). I also use a small
cheap brass sliding caliper, a slightly less cheap plastic dial
caliper, and a digital caliper (less than $20 from Harbor Freight and
works great). I have a dial indicator and a set of micrometers along
with inside and outside calipers, not to mention 6" and 36" metal
rulers. I also have protractors, both fixed and adjustable; framing
squares, circle gauges and screw templates.

And sometimes I just mark a piece of cardboard.

Do I need them all? Naw, but they're cool to play with :-P


On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 02:12:10 GMT, "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
>used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think about
>the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
>Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
>toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
>I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the more
>expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
>have.
>
>I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" - 6",
>because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
>What does everyone else use?
>
>Thanks -
>
>Nick B
>

In article <[email protected]>,
charlie b <[email protected]> wrote:

> Actual "measured" lengths aren't that important (unless you're
> doing built ins. Its far more important that all parts that
> are supposed to be the same length are in fact the same
> length.

This is true, unless you have to send your measurements to someone else.

I found that out the hard way once when I ordered a glass table top
based on a tape measure measurement. Unfortunately, my tape and their
measurement device did not agree. (I suspect theirs was probably the
accurate one.)

I checked by tapes and rulers. The straight-edge rulers were very
accurate. However the tapes were all over the place. After all, they're
made for construction work, usually for fairly long lengths, and a
tolerance of plus or minus 1/16 is acceptable (except for finish work).

My newest tape, a Stanley "MaxSteel Contractor Grade", 3m/10ft, is off
3/32 in the first 24 inches, resulting in a short cut. My Craftsman 16ft
tape is off 1/32 in the first 24, but cuts long, so if the error causes
a problem, I can trim the piece to the correct length.

My next purchase will be a steel hook-end ruler from Lee Valley.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

"Nick Bozovich" wrote ...
> I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
> used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think
about
> the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
> Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
> I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the
more
> expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
> have.
>
> I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" -
6",
> because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
> What does everyone else use?

The slop in the end of the tape is there by design - it is equal to the
thickness of the piece of metal that is used as the hook on the end. Of
course that only lasts until the first few times you unlock the tape while a
few feet are rolled out and let it snap back throwing the end out of whack
(especially by the standards of some of those around here with really high
expectations for accuracy - another story).

I prefer a steel rule. It may be out of whack but I use only one measuring
device so everything will be out by the same amount. While the tape measure
is designed to be more accurate for house framing, you can use it too, as
long as you use only the one tape measure, the same way, for everything.

--

Cheers,
Howard

----------------------------------------------------------
Working wood in New Jersey - [email protected]
Visit me in the woodshop - www.inthewoodshop.org

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 02:12:10 +0000, Nick Bozovich wrote:

> I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he
> used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think about
> the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using.
> Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back
> toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".
>
> I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the more
> expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I
> have.
>
> I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" - 6",
> because the tape measure isn't reliable.
>
> What does everyone else use?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Nick B

Tapes are cheap. When one begins to wear, get another.

Another solution is to clip off the lose tab. Use the tape as is or
add/subtract the difference each time you use it.

The measuring device or scale you use really doesn't matter as much as
consistency in using it. Units of measure are no more than a convenience.
They do not change distance but merely try to define it.

In article <[email protected]>,
Jim K <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote:

>I have a dial indicator and a set of micrometers along
> with inside and outside calipers

A while ago, I bought a 6" dial caliper that's marked in fractions of an
inch on the dial (each 1/8" is marked on the dial, with, IIRC, tick
marks at 1/64" increments between). Lately I've become very fond of
using it for measuring. Not so much because I care about 1/64th
accuracy, but just because it's so much easier for my middle-aged eyes
to read than anything else I have.

I just wish somebody would make a left-handed version of it.

In article <[email protected]>,
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Are you kidding me? I'm not sure where my tape measure is 50% of the time
> and I'm going to keep track of a stick for 50 years? ;-)

I always know where my tape measure is. It's right where I put it down
the last time. Of course, sometimes I have trouble remembering where I
put it down the last time :-)

"Wherever you go, there you are"