"Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
-Mark Duginske
"Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
Paragraph 1.
Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
Barry
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:24:29 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The more I read Duginske the more I wonder.
>
>UA100
Ya know, and I know that you know this, so I'm saying, "Ya Know", fer
other folks:
The people who write these books are just guys. They may have a book
contract but that doesn't make them geniuses.
The more knowledge that you get in any given area, the more that you
think that the common references are a joke.
They become a fine place to begin, but a terrible place to wind up.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
In rec.woodworking
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:20:57 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
>>distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
>>1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
>>
>>-Mark Duginske
>>
>>"Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
>>Paragraph 1.
>>
>>Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
>>not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
>>well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>>
>>Barry
>
>
>Barry:
>
>Some people prefer to immolate themselves as a protest to current
>political situations.
>
>I prefer to do adequate stock preparation that leaves me with
>something that I can feed into a tablesaw that has a fence set dead
>parallel to the blade.
Interestingly enough, I just read the Beseimeyer and Incra fence manuals
available online. Both suggest aligning the fence parallel with the miter
slot, not suggesting any splay. On the other hand, none make any mention
of tools or dial indicators and simply suggest you eyeball the thing in
place.
In rec.woodworking
The Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
>If your blade is properly aligned to the miter slots line up the fence with
>the miter slot. Pressing you index finger nail against the fence move your
>finger down until you feel it is flush at the infeed side. Repeat at the
>outfeed size. I prefer mine to just catch at the outfeed side which equals
>less than .005"
I've never used .005 for a fingernail. Back when I built motors, we said
if you can hang a nail on a ridge in a cylinder, that was a .020 ridge. I
just mic'd my index finger nails. They were .022 and .027. If you figure
they are rounded on the ends, microscopically, the edge would have to be at
least half that distance to hang your nail, otherwise it would skip over
it. So I'm thinking if you feel it butt with your nail, you're greater
than about .012- .015.
Close enough for govt work in any event.
In rec.woodworking
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ya know, when ya get down to the point where yer using feeler gauges
>to measure the outta plane, and ye've run out of the thinnest feeler
>gauges that ye got, it's time to call it a day.
Exactly, and a TS Aligner is nothing but the most expensive thinnest feel
gauge you have.
When I bought my Unisaw new in 1979, I just wished it had a vertical
face on the rip fence! The dirty dog was splayed out top-to-bottom
at the operator end. I built my own "T"-Square fence from 2" x 3"
rectangular steel tubing and faced it with 3/4" x 5" white ash. I
haven't aligned the blade to perfection (it's off probably 0.010 to
maybe 0.020 across the diameter -- rough guess without measuring),
but it is SWEET! I used polyethylene blocks as sliders for the T-square
and it's as smooth as silk. Other than the junk fence that came with
it, I LOVE my Unisaw.
Clarke
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote:
>
> "Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
> distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
> 1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
>
> -Mark Duginske
>
> "Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
> Paragraph 1.
>
> Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
> not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
> well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>
> Barry
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 03:39:46 GMT, The Wolf <[email protected]>
wrote:
>If your blade is properly aligned to the miter slots line up the fence with
>the miter slot. Pressing you index finger nail against the fence move your
>finger down until you feel it is flush at the infeed side. Repeat at the
>outfeed size. I prefer mine to just catch at the outfeed side which equals
>less than .005"
I don't use the slots for anything, preferring to make my crosscuts
using only the fence. Since I made my living cutting more sheetgoods
than solid stock, therein may lie the rub - or, the lack of rub -
depending on how you look at it.
I don't play games with saw setup, or alignment between the plane of
the blade and the saw. I want that to be parallel. Anything other
than that introduces a geometry that is not conducive to the
production of stock with parallel edges.
Please don't assume that I don't run a fair amount of solid stock
through the saw with the same setup. I do, but the stock is prepped
prior to being ripped to width - with the intent that the rip will
produce the finished edge for glue-up.
Introducing runout into a machine is counterintuitive and
counterproductive.
I don't have much of a problem with Dave Fleming wanting to run the
back end of the fence a little bit away, but the theory is poxed.
By the time that the stock gets to the tablesaw it should have already
been dimensioned and stabilized.
I'm trying to run finished cuts on that tablesaw and don't want any
slop in the process.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Bruce wrote:
>Interestingly enough, I just read the Beseimeyer and Incra fence manuals
>available online. Both suggest aligning the fence parallel with the miter
>slot, not suggesting any splay. On the other hand, none make any mention
>of tools or dial indicators and simply suggest you eyeball the thing in
>place.
But do they suggest using boogers and snot to check
alignment? Does either admit that you can make fine
furniture with dental floss and shards of glass?
Answer that one monkey boy.
UA100
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:30:19 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you are getting tooth marks on a perfectly parallel fence one of the
>following may be the problem.
>Your stock may not be perfectly straight. If it is not the wood will not
>feed perfectly straight.
I agree that this can cause the problem, but it's not the case here.
The locals playing with me agree the wood is straight.
>You could have a tooth or 2 that is not in perfect alignment with the
>others. This is why I have Forrest bring the blade back to factory specs
>with every resharpening.
It's a 30 day old WWII. Maybe I'll call Forrest and ask about them
looking at it. But the other combos did exhibit similar behavior.
>Your saws could have a little too much run out on the arbor.
Wouldn't this show up on some of the other blades? We did this on (4)
saws, a brand new General 650, a PM66, and two different Jet
contractor's saws. The cuts made with the rip blades looked like they
were scraped smooth, not a mark to be found.
>I would put more thought into whether your blade is at factory specs or if
>your stock is perfectly straight.
Thanks!
Barry
"The Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC3E6207.4FE78%[email protected]...
> On 01/29/2004 4:25 AM, in article
> [email protected], "B a r r y B u r k e J r ."
> <[email protected]> opined:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 04:40:20 GMT, "Leon"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I never could understand setting the fence wide at the back. It sorta
makes
> >> sense if there were no waste... But if your waste is being pulled into
the
> >> back left side of the blade because your fence is not feeding your
wood
> >> straight into the blade, what have you accomplished?
> >
> > I always wondered the same thing and am on a quest to figure it out.
> > <G>
>
> It is cheap anti-kickback insurance, that's all.
>
> .005 clearance at the back to reduce the chance of the stock catching the
> back of the blade.
>
> We are not trying to land Neil and Buzz at Tranquility Base, ok?
>
Perhaps this got started by instruction manual writers who wanted to be sure
owners would err on the safe side when aligning the fence. If a sloppy tuner
shoots for dead parallel, there's a 50% chance he's going to create a pinch.
The more experienced person would probably decide for himself how to tune
his saw anyway.
I'm relatively inexperienced. My fence has the prescribed toe-out, and it
will stay that way until I see that it's causing a problem.
Tom
What is the personal risk, damage to cut or waste stock, or any other conceivable
danger of kicking out the fence a few thou from the heel of the TS blade? I have
always done that on my General 350 and no blood yet.
Hoyt Weathers
Charlie Self wrote:
> Tom notes:
>
> >> It is cheap anti-kickback insurance, that's all.
> >>
> >> .005 clearance at the back to reduce the chance of the stock catching the
> >> back of the blade.
> >>
> >> We are not trying to land Neil and Buzz at Tranquility Base, ok?
> >>
> >
> >Perhaps this got started by instruction manual writers who wanted to be sure
> >owners would err on the safe side when aligning the fence. If a sloppy tuner
> >shoots for dead parallel, there's a 50% chance he's going to create a pinch.
> >The more experienced person would probably decide for himself how to tune
> >his saw anyway.
> >
> >I'm relatively inexperienced. My fence has the prescribed toe-out, and it
> >will stay that way until I see that it's causing a problem.
>
> It isn't the writer's fault. Check out your manuals. Notice all the skull and
> crossbone boxes telling you to keep your fingers out of places no sane person
> would put them anyway. Same with the slight toe-out (when I have to recommend
> it, I recommend folding a sheet of copy paper and using that as the measuring
> stick). It is based on legal liabilities in our suit prone society. First we
> need fewer lawyers. Then we need judges with the guts to toss out the bullshit
> cases without hearing them. And we need juries, for the stuff that goes to jury
> trial, that have sense enough to know that idiots should not be rewarded for
> idiotic behavior.
>
> When all this happens, check out Cloud Nine. It's in Seventh Heaven, where
> we'll all be.
>
> Charlie Self
> "To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
> tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Tom notes:
>> It is cheap anti-kickback insurance, that's all.
>>
>> .005 clearance at the back to reduce the chance of the stock catching the
>> back of the blade.
>>
>> We are not trying to land Neil and Buzz at Tranquility Base, ok?
>>
>
>Perhaps this got started by instruction manual writers who wanted to be sure
>owners would err on the safe side when aligning the fence. If a sloppy tuner
>shoots for dead parallel, there's a 50% chance he's going to create a pinch.
>The more experienced person would probably decide for himself how to tune
>his saw anyway.
>
>I'm relatively inexperienced. My fence has the prescribed toe-out, and it
>will stay that way until I see that it's causing a problem.
It isn't the writer's fault. Check out your manuals. Notice all the skull and
crossbone boxes telling you to keep your fingers out of places no sane person
would put them anyway. Same with the slight toe-out (when I have to recommend
it, I recommend folding a sheet of copy paper and using that as the measuring
stick). It is based on legal liabilities in our suit prone society. First we
need fewer lawyers. Then we need judges with the guts to toss out the bullshit
cases without hearing them. And we need juries, for the stuff that goes to jury
trial, that have sense enough to know that idiots should not be rewarded for
idiotic behavior.
When all this happens, check out Cloud Nine. It's in Seventh Heaven, where
we'll all be.
Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 01/29/2004 5:54 PM, in article [email protected], "Hoyt
Weathers" <[email protected]> opined:
> What is the personal risk, damage to cut or waste stock, or any other
> conceivable
> danger of kicking out the fence a few thou from the heel of the TS blade? I
> have
> always done that on my General 350 and no blood yet.
> Hoyt Weathers
There is none, the cutting takes place 90 degrees from the forward dead
center of the blade to the fence. That is the critical area.
>
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> Tom notes:
>>
>>>> It is cheap anti-kickback insurance, that's all.
>>>>
>>>> .005 clearance at the back to reduce the chance of the stock catching the
>>>> back of the blade.
>>>>
>>>> We are not trying to land Neil and Buzz at Tranquility Base, ok?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps this got started by instruction manual writers who wanted to be sure
>>> owners would err on the safe side when aligning the fence. If a sloppy tuner
>>> shoots for dead parallel, there's a 50% chance he's going to create a pinch.
>>> The more experienced person would probably decide for himself how to tune
>>> his saw anyway.
>>>
>>> I'm relatively inexperienced. My fence has the prescribed toe-out, and it
>>> will stay that way until I see that it's causing a problem.
>>
>> It isn't the writer's fault. Check out your manuals. Notice all the skull and
>> crossbone boxes telling you to keep your fingers out of places no sane person
>> would put them anyway. Same with the slight toe-out (when I have to recommend
>> it, I recommend folding a sheet of copy paper and using that as the measuring
>> stick). It is based on legal liabilities in our suit prone society. First we
>> need fewer lawyers. Then we need judges with the guts to toss out the
>> bullshit
>> cases without hearing them. And we need juries, for the stuff that goes to
>> jury
>> trial, that have sense enough to know that idiots should not be rewarded for
>> idiotic behavior.
>>
>> When all this happens, check out Cloud Nine. It's in Seventh Heaven, where
>> we'll all be.
>>
>> Charlie Self
>> "To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
>> tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
>> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
>
On 01/28/2004 6:22 PM, in article
[email protected], "Bruce" <[email protected]>
opined:
> In rec.woodworking
> Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:20:57 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
>>> distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
>>> 1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
>>>
>>> -Mark Duginske
>>>
>>> "Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
>>> Paragraph 1.
>>>
>>> Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
>>> not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
>>> well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>>>
>>> Barry
>>
>>
>> Barry:
>>
>> Some people prefer to immolate themselves as a protest to current
>> political situations.
>>
>> I prefer to do adequate stock preparation that leaves me with
>> something that I can feed into a tablesaw that has a fence set dead
>> parallel to the blade.
>
> Interestingly enough, I just read the Beseimeyer and Incra fence manuals
> available online. Both suggest aligning the fence parallel with the miter
> slot, not suggesting any splay. On the other hand, none make any mention
> of tools or dial indicators and simply suggest you eyeball the thing in
> place.
If your blade is properly aligned to the miter slots line up the fence with
the miter slot. Pressing you index finger nail against the fence move your
finger down until you feel it is flush at the infeed side. Repeat at the
outfeed size. I prefer mine to just catch at the outfeed side which equals
less than .005"
--
======================================================================
"My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia
forever. We begin bombing in five minutes," Ronald Reagan.
======================================================================
On 01/29/2004 4:25 AM, in article
[email protected], "B a r r y B u r k e J r ."
<[email protected]> opined:
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 04:40:20 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I never could understand setting the fence wide at the back. It sorta makes
>> sense if there were no waste... But if your waste is being pulled into the
>> back left side of the blade because your fence is not feeding your wood
>> straight into the blade, what have you accomplished?
>
> I always wondered the same thing and am on a quest to figure it out.
> <G>
It is cheap anti-kickback insurance, that's all.
.005 clearance at the back to reduce the chance of the stock catching the
back of the blade.
We are not trying to land Neil and Buzz at Tranquility Base, ok?
On 01/29/2004 10:16 AM, in article [email protected],
"mttt" <[email protected]> opined:
>
> "B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
>> not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
>> well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>
> "Mouse Nuts" is another reference point I oft hear bantered about.
> Insect/mammal discussion aside, I'd proffer that the gnat's buttocks be used
> for measurements in the < 0.010" range. And we leave the genetalia of the
> Order Rodentia to cover 0.011" to 0.100".
>
> I'm open to more similies for measurements greater than a tenth of an inch.
>
> What do gnats eat?
An RCH
>
>
--
========================================================
I'd rather have a German division ahead of me then a
French division behind me," Gen. George S. Patton
========================================================
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ya know, when ya get down to the point where yer using feeler gauges
> to measure the outta plane, and ye've run out of the thinnest feeler
> gauges that ye got, it's time to call it a day.
About 20 years ago one of the car magazines ran an article from one of their
regulars about his trip through North Africa. At one point he watched some
locals setting up an engine rebuild in which they measured the ring gap with
a ruler. Of course, their gas topped out at about 68 octane so high
compression wasn't an issue.
I figure that I make enough mistakes without messing up on machine setup, so
dead square it is.
YMMV, especially if you're from North Africa.
Bob
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Ya know, and I know that you know this, so I'm saying, "Ya Know", fer
> other folks:
>
> The people who write these books are just guys. They may have a book
> contract but that doesn't make them geniuses.
>
> The more knowledge that you get in any given area, the more that you
> think that the common references are a joke.
>
> They become a fine place to begin, but a terrible place to wind up.
I never could understand setting the fence wide at the back. It sorta makes
sense if there were no waste... But if your waste is being pulled into the
back left side of the blade because your fence is not feeding your wood
straight into the blade, what have you accomplished?
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:20:57 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
>distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
>1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
>
>-Mark Duginske
>
>"Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
>Paragraph 1.
>
>Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
>not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
>well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>
>Barry
Barry:
Some people prefer to immolate themselves as a protest to current
political situations.
I prefer to do adequate stock preparation that leaves me with
something that I can feed into a tablesaw that has a fence set dead
parallel to the blade.
Yer's in wooddorking.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
No matter, what that gives you is a fence that is NOT parallel to the
sawblade.
A better solution would be to put 1/32nd inch UHMW plastic laminate on
or something like formica on the front half of the fence and leave the
back edge of the fence bare to give the wood a little room as needed
Personally I keep my fence as parallel to the blade as I can
John
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:20:57 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
>distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
>1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
>
>-Mark Duginske
>
>"Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
>Paragraph 1.
>
>Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
>not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
>well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>
>Barry
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:25:03 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I prefer to do adequate stock preparation that leaves me with
>something that I can feed into a tablesaw that has a fence set dead
>parallel to the blade.
As do I. _Straight_ stock rips as nice as, well, anything I can think
of right now. I'm just in the mood to yank Mr. B's chain. <G>
He seemed to wonder in another thread where people got this stuff, so
I decided to pass along a reference.
Barry
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
> well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
"Mouse Nuts" is another reference point I oft hear bantered about.
Insect/mammal discussion aside, I'd proffer that the gnat's buttocks be used
for measurements in the < 0.010" range. And we leave the genetalia of the
Order Rodentia to cover 0.011" to 0.100".
I'm open to more similies for measurements greater than a tenth of an inch.
What do gnats eat?
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message
> I always wondered the same thing and am on a quest to figure it out.
> <G>
>
> I've noticed that perfectly parallel fences work great most of the
> time, especially with a top notch rip blade. In these cases, both
> the work and the waste are cut perfectly. Other times, usually with
> combination blades, like the WWII, a slight toe out works wonders with
> the cut quality. A perfectly parallel fence leaves blade marks on the
> work, the slight toe out cleans up the work, but puts more blade marks
> and maybe an occasional burn on the waste.
I am using 2 different WWII 40 tooth general on a Jet cabinet saw with the
fence parallel to the blade. When I have them sharpened I send them to
Forrest and have them bring the blade back to factory specs along with
resharpening, When ripping perfectly straight stock I get no tooth marks
and the results are usually shiney smooth.
If you are getting tooth marks on a perfectly parallel fence one of the
following may be the problem.
Your stock may not be perfectly straight. If it is not the wood will not
feed perfectly straight.
You could have a tooth or 2 that is not in perfect alignment with the
others. This is why I have Forrest bring the blade back to factory specs
with every resharpening.
Your saws could have a little too much run out on the arbor.
I would put more thought into whether your blade is at factory specs or if
your stock is perfectly straight.
>
> I don't know WHY this is true, but it is in my experience with several
> saws with plenty of blades. It is perfectly repeatable with solid and
> sheet stock. In fact, I was able do duplicate the condition on my
> contractor's and cabinet saw at the same time, side by side. The saws
> had wide variations in fence quality, horsepower, etc... The
> contractor's saw was as fine tuned as they get, with a link belt, PALS
> kit, cast arbor washer, tube sand on the legs, etc...
>
> I swapped the same blade from saw to saw. The blades were (2)
> different Freud combos, a General 50T combo, a Freud Glue Line Rip, a
> Systematic rip, and a Forrest WWII. All blades are sharp, clean, and
> in excellent condition. Both saws exhibited the same results when
> changes were made. We also tried it on my buddy's PM66 and another
> Jet CS.
>
> Does have any thoughts on why I found the above to be true?
>
> Barry
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 04:40:20 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I never could understand setting the fence wide at the back. It sorta makes
>sense if there were no waste... But if your waste is being pulled into the
>back left side of the blade because your fence is not feeding your wood
>straight into the blade, what have you accomplished?
I always wondered the same thing and am on a quest to figure it out.
<G>
I've noticed that perfectly parallel fences work great most of the
time, especially with a top notch rip blade. In these cases, both
the work and the waste are cut perfectly. Other times, usually with
combination blades, like the WWII, a slight toe out works wonders with
the cut quality. A perfectly parallel fence leaves blade marks on the
work, the slight toe out cleans up the work, but puts more blade marks
and maybe an occasional burn on the waste.
I don't know WHY this is true, but it is in my experience with several
saws with plenty of blades. It is perfectly repeatable with solid and
sheet stock. In fact, I was able do duplicate the condition on my
contractor's and cabinet saw at the same time, side by side. The saws
had wide variations in fence quality, horsepower, etc... The
contractor's saw was as fine tuned as they get, with a link belt, PALS
kit, cast arbor washer, tube sand on the legs, etc...
I swapped the same blade from saw to saw. The blades were (2)
different Freud combos, a General 50T combo, a Freud Glue Line Rip, a
Systematic rip, and a Forrest WWII. All blades are sharp, clean, and
in excellent condition. Both saws exhibited the same results when
changes were made. We also tried it on my buddy's PM66 and another
Jet CS.
Does have any thoughts on why I found the above to be true?
Barry
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:21:56 -0800, Dave Fleming <> wrote:
>Tom, from personal 'emperical' experience running air dried stock
>through tablesaws with that damn old "delta" style fence you had to do
>everything you could to insure a clean rip.
OK Dave, I'm going to fess up to something but I don't want you to
spread it around.
My current GooneyFence (I've owned three different ones) has a belly
in the middle of it. I'm fortunate enough (stoopid enough) to own a
Starrett 48'"Straight Edge ( and a 72" one, but that's another story)
and when I lay that bad boy onnna GooneyFence, there is a rocker that
is about the thickness of yer card trick. This is a shabby damned
thing to admit to but I've used that belly to pretend that I set the
fence up parallel to the blade, knowing full well that the fence had a
"built in" kick out of about yer card tricks thickness.
I'll fess up to something else - I ain't ever known a GooneyFence to
be dead flat, as measured against them Starrett Straightedges. All
three had their peculiarities.
Ya know, when ya get down to the point where yer using feeler gauges
to measure the outta plane, and ye've run out of the thinnest feeler
gauges that ye got, it's time to call it a day.
Still, I set that fence to the point where the centerline of the
measurable (barely) belly is right across from the centerline of the
sawblade, and from there - That's the centerline - GottDamnit !
I reckon that this gives me a relief of some, not measured by me,
thickness.
Again, I get the setup as parallel as I can - but I know that it can
never be truly parallel, only measuring to a point, and that, if the
belly was in the other direction - I'd have a hell of a problem.
I kinda think it's funny to listen to WoodDorkers try to think in
units of measurement that are reserved for our machinist brethren.
They are orders of magnitude off of what really matters in
WoodDorking.
Still, I'm down in the trenches with them, trying to squeeze a gnat's
ass outa something that don't deserve it.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
<humongous snip of great dialogue>
>
>I don't have much of a problem with Dave Fleming wanting to run the
>back end of the fence a little bit away, but the theory is poxed.
>
>By the time that the stock gets to the tablesaw it should have already
>been dimensioned and stabilized.
>
>I'm trying to run finished cuts on that tablesaw and don't want any
>slop in the process.
>
>
>Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
>Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
>Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Tom, from personal 'emperical' experience running air dried stock
through tablesaws with that damn old "delta" style fence you had to do
everything you could to insure a clean rip.
Not exotic woods just things like Sitka Spruce and Doug Fir or Alaska
Yellow Cedar in 2 inch or more thickness, S2S1E.
Now the old Oliver or Tannewitz or Moak or Northfield with that middle
mounted fence were no problems what so ever.
But when saws like Delta, Walker Turner, Davis and Wells started
appearing in the boatyard mills it definitely was a learning curve
setting them up to cut a nice glue line rip for mast making.
And that was where I was taught the Bicycle playing card trick. Just
as the guide blocks on a big 26" or more bandsoar were set the
thickness of a cigarette paper away from the blade.
Recall all the trouble of setting up a shaper before the toothed
cutter head came along? Balancing the blades, using a DI to set up the
distance from arbor for depth of cut? Sheech why why you young'uns
don't know how easy you have it.
<yeah time for bed ya soused old faht>
Goodnight All and Be Well
Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/
For what it is worth, eyeballing is accurate down to ten-thousandths
of an inch. A sheet of notebook paper is 4-5 thousandths of an inch
and nobody has a problem seeing that. Remington Arms for years hired
men to straighten out shotgun barrels in a factory with no artificial
lihgting in that particular roon. Seems that they were made to use
their eyes and sunlight to check the barrels. It does take patience
and taking care to do it right; many of us are not willing to take the
time or concentrate that much. I used toi owork in QA and after 6-8
years, you could instantlu look att he insulation on a piece of MTM,
ot THHN and tell with a second or two if the insulation was 12
thousandths of an inch or more. Just takes practice and attention
little details.
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 03:39:46 GMT, The Wolf <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 01/28/2004 6:22 PM, in article
>[email protected], "Bruce" <[email protected]>
>opined:
>
>> In rec.woodworking
>> Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 01:20:57 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Some people prefer to have the fence angled very slightly so that the
>>>> distance between the fence and the blade is minutely greater (between
>>>> 1/64 in. and 1/32 in.) at the back of the blade"
>>>>
>>>> -Mark Duginske
>>>>
>>>> "Tablesaw Methods of Work", Jim Richey, Taunton Press, 2000, Page 29,
>>>> Paragraph 1.
>>>>
>>>> Note that Mr. Duginske refers to 1/32-1/64" as "minute". Not .0001,
>>>> not .001, or even .005, but .0156 to .032. Possibly a fat,
>>>> well-hydrated gnats ass? <G>
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>
>>>
>>> Barry:
>>>
>>> Some people prefer to immolate themselves as a protest to current
>>> political situations.
>>>
>>> I prefer to do adequate stock preparation that leaves me with
>>> something that I can feed into a tablesaw that has a fence set dead
>>> parallel to the blade.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, I just read the Beseimeyer and Incra fence manuals
>> available online. Both suggest aligning the fence parallel with the miter
>> slot, not suggesting any splay. On the other hand, none make any mention
>> of tools or dial indicators and simply suggest you eyeball the thing in
>> place.
>
>If your blade is properly aligned to the miter slots line up the fence with
>the miter slot. Pressing you index finger nail against the fence move your
>finger down until you feel it is flush at the infeed side. Repeat at the
>outfeed size. I prefer mine to just catch at the outfeed side which equals
>less than .005"
"The Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> It is cheap anti-kickback insurance, that's all.
>
> .005 clearance at the back to reduce the chance of the stock catching the
> back of the blade.
>
> We are not trying to land Neil and Buzz at Tranquility Base, ok?
>
Sorta true... The kick back is less likely between the blade and the fence
but is offset by the waste being fed into the back side of the up spinning
blade. Kickback does not require a fence in the equation to happen.
Thank You Bob, for causing me to fall out of chair at work...
I'll laugh about that for days..
(I don't why it's funny, it just is)
Bob Schmall wrote:
> About 20 years ago one of the car magazines ran an article from one of their
> regulars about his trip through North Africa. At one point he watched some
> locals setting up an engine rebuild in which they measured the ring gap with
> a ruler. Of course, their gas topped out at about 68 octane so high
> compression wasn't an issue.
> I figure that I make enough mistakes without messing up on machine setup, so
> dead square it is.
> YMMV, especially if you're from North Africa.
> Bob
>
>