Ss

"SamTheCat"

21/02/2004 7:15 PM

router bit trouble

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C3F8AF.151F8BA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A =
couple of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral =
cutter was coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several =
folks on the wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the =
router bit.

I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide =
tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of =
milling.

Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather =
than just the tip.

now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from =
rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such =
short amount of time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I =
have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" =
seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.

I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a =
PRL. My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec=20

Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I =
head back to the shop and snap another bit !

Cheers
Eric



------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C3F8AF.151F8BA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado =
in hard=20
maple 3/16" deep.&nbsp;&nbsp;A couple of days ago I asked about&nbsp; =
"climbing"=20
bits as my onsrud spiral cutter was coming out of the router.&nbsp; =
Followed the=20
advice ftom several folks on the wreck and all went well....... exect =
that I=20
broke the router bit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, =
this time a=20
two flute carbide tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after about =
4=20
linear feet of milling.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Both bits snapped right at the collet =
so the whole=20
bit broke, rather than just the tip.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>now admittedly the second bit was not =
top of the=20
line (it was from rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same =
operation=20
in such short amount of time seems a bit weird.&nbsp; Both bits were =
1/4"=20
shank.&nbsp; I have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" =
straight cut=20
-- 3/8" seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was doing this in a router table with =
a PC7518=20
router mounted in a PRL.&nbsp; My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ =
1"/sec=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anybody else had this problem -- I'd =
like to do=20
some thinking before I head back to the shop and snap another bit =
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Eric</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C3F8AF.151F8BA0--


This topic has 12 replies

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 1:57 AM

To the OP: and be sure to avoid Woodline bits. they are unmitigated
crap! I like my Amana, Bosch, Freud and CMT bits. Haven't tried
Whitesides yet.


dave

GeeDubb wrote:

> SamTheCat wrote:
>
>
>>>Are you trying to cut the full 3/16" in one pass?
>>
>>yes -- I was under the impression that if the depth of the pass is
>>less than the width of the cut then only one pass was / is necessary
>>-- perhaps I am a bit to aggressive ?
>
>
> A 1/4" bit should be able to handle this. IMO Rockler bits are crap. I
> routed a couple hundred feet (1/4" deep cut) of thermofused melamine and
> dulled the heck out of one -Freud two flute bit but it never broke even at
> the rate I was pushing it. I also bought an Oldham HD special to do some
> more grooving and it held up well though the 1/4" groove was slightly more
> than 1/4". The Freud had a much tighter tolerance in the finished cut.
>
> Get a good bit. CMT, Amana, Freud, Whiteside.
>
> Gary
>
>
>

Bb

"Bill"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 5:01 AM

"SamTheCat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>When using the spiral cutter I would expect I
> should be ble to use a feed rate of 3-7 in/sec as thats what the bits do
in
> a CNC machine


I think 3-7 inches a second QUITE fast. Too fast!.


PB

Pat Barber

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

23/02/2004 8:05 PM

Freud makes a 1/4" cutter with 1/2" shank 11-136...

A 7518 is a high torque router that will NOT stall. You
need a very slow feed rate with a 1/4" cut that deep.

The router is more than capable, the bit is NOT.



SamTheCat wrote:

> I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A couple of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral cutter was coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several folks on the wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the router bit.
>
> I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of milling.
>
> Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather than just the tip.
>
> now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such short amount of time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.
>
> I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a PRL. My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec
>
> Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I head back to the shop and snap another bit !
>
> Cheers
> Eric
>
>
>

MH

"Michael Hearn Anna Houpt"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 6:16 AM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01FC_01C3F8C8.466B7160
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You could try to do it in two passes. Also if the router is variable =
speed... speed it up.
------=_NextPart_000_01FC_01C3F8C8.466B7160
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>You could try to do it in two passes. Also if the =
router is=20
variable speed... speed it up. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_01FC_01C3F8C8.466B7160--

Kk

KS

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 12:43 AM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A couple of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral cutter was coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several folks on the wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the router bit.
>
> I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of milling.
>
> Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather than just the tip.
>
> now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such short amount of time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.
>
> I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a PRL. My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec
>
> Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I head back to the shop and snap another bit !
>
> Cheers
> Eric
>
Are you trying to cut the full 3/16" in one pass?

Ss

"SamTheCat"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

21/02/2004 7:59 PM


"KS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
> > I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A
couple of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral cutter
was coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several folks on the
wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the router bit.
> >
> > I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide
tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of
milling.
> >
> > Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather
than just the tip.
> >
> > now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from
rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such short
amount of time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I have been
unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" seem to be as
narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.
> >
> > I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a
PRL. My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec
> >
> > Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I
head back to the shop and snap another bit !
> >
> > Cheers
> > Eric
> >
> Are you trying to cut the full 3/16" in one pass?

yes -- I was under the impression that if the depth of the pass is less than
the width of the cut then only one pass was / is necessary -- perhaps I am a
bit to aggressive ?

ER

"Eric Ryder"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

21/02/2004 7:40 PM

Dull bits? Long bits? Your feed rate is definitely too fast for your
setup, find the weak link and you can increase the feed rate..

"SamTheCat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A couple
of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral cutter was
coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several folks on the
wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the router bit.

I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide tipped
straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of milling.

Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather than
just the tip.

now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from rockler)
but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such short amount of
time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I have been unable to
locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" seem to be as narrow as
1/2" shank bit go.

I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a PRL.
My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec

Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I head
back to the shop and snap another bit !

Cheers
Eric

Ss

"SamTheCat"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 12:27 PM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3F93F.37F07FF0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Update:

Got an Viper bit from the borg, 1/4" shank, 1/4" cutter -- same =
setup as before -- feed rate of 1"/sec, worked just fine.......

Cheers
"SamTheCat" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A =
couple of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral =
cutter was coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several =
folks on the wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the =
router bit.

I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide =
tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of =
milling.

Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather =
than just the tip.

now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from =
rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such =
short amount of time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I =
have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" =
seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.

I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a =
PRL. My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec=20

Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I =
head back to the shop and snap another bit !

Cheers
Eric



------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3F93F.37F07FF0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Update:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Got an Viper bit =
from the borg,=20
1/4" shank, 1/4" cutter -- same setup as before -- feed rate of 1"/sec, =
worked=20
just fine.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"SamTheCat" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>&gt;=
wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:[email protected]">news:QemdnWuQhdIDaardRVn=
[email protected]</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been trying to mill a 1/4" =
dado in hard=20
maple 3/16" deep.&nbsp;&nbsp;A couple of days ago I asked about&nbsp;=20
"climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral cutter was coming out of the =
router.&nbsp;=20
Followed the advice ftom several folks on the wreck and all went =
well.......=20
exect that I broke the router bit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I then switched to a a second 1/4" =
bit, this time=20
a two flute carbide tipped straight cutter -- broke it as well after =
about 4=20
linear feet of milling.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Both bits snapped right at the collet =
so the=20
whole bit broke, rather than just the tip.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>now admittedly the second bit was not =
top of the=20
line (it was from rockler) but to have two bits break doing the same =
operation=20
in such short amount of time seems a bit weird.&nbsp; Both bits were =
1/4"=20
shank.&nbsp; I have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" =
straight cut=20
-- 3/8" seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was doing this in a router table =
with a PC7518=20
router mounted in a PRL.&nbsp; My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ =
1"/sec=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anybody else had this problem -- I'd =
like to do=20
some thinking before I head back to the shop and snap another bit=20
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Eric</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3F93F.37F07FF0--

GG

"GeeDubb"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

21/02/2004 6:09 PM

SamTheCat wrote:

>>>
>> Are you trying to cut the full 3/16" in one pass?
>
> yes -- I was under the impression that if the depth of the pass is
> less than the width of the cut then only one pass was / is necessary
> -- perhaps I am a bit to aggressive ?

A 1/4" bit should be able to handle this. IMO Rockler bits are crap. I
routed a couple hundred feet (1/4" deep cut) of thermofused melamine and
dulled the heck out of one -Freud two flute bit but it never broke even at
the rate I was pushing it. I also bought an Oldham HD special to do some
more grooving and it held up well though the 1/4" groove was slightly more
than 1/4". The Freud had a much tighter tolerance in the finished cut.

Get a good bit. CMT, Amana, Freud, Whiteside.

Gary


EP

"Edwin Pawlowski"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 12:56 AM


"SamTheCat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I have been unable to locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8"
seem to be as narrow as 1/2" shank bit go.


www.leevalley.com Item No. 16J04,54 $7.50 They start at 1/4" and go to 1
1/2"
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome


Ss

"SamTheCat"

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

21/02/2004 7:40 PM

Bits were 1" cutting length, only using the top 3/16". Both bits were new
so I assume they were sharp. When using the spiral cutter I would expect I
should be ble to use a feed rate of 3-7 in/sec as thats what the bits do in
a CNC machine


"Eric Ryder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dull bits? Long bits? Your feed rate is definitely too fast for your
> setup, find the weak link and you can increase the feed rate..
>
> "SamTheCat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> I have been trying to mill a 1/4" dado in hard maple 3/16" deep. A couple
> of days ago I asked about "climbing" bits as my onsrud spiral cutter was
> coming out of the router. Followed the advice ftom several folks on the
> wreck and all went well....... exect that I broke the router bit.
>
> I then switched to a a second 1/4" bit, this time a two flute carbide
tipped
> straight cutter -- broke it as well after about 4 linear feet of milling.
>
> Both bits snapped right at the collet so the whole bit broke, rather than
> just the tip.
>
> now admittedly the second bit was not top of the line (it was from
rockler)
> but to have two bits break doing the same operation in such short amount
of
> time seems a bit weird. Both bits were 1/4" shank. I have been unable to
> locate a 1/2" shank witha 1/4" straight cut -- 3/8" seem to be as narrow
as
> 1/2" shank bit go.
>
> I was doing this in a router table with a PC7518 router mounted in a PRL.
> My feed rate was reasonable, _maybe_ 1"/sec
>
> Anybody else had this problem -- I'd like to do some thinking before I
head
> back to the shop and snap another bit !
>
> Cheers
> Eric
>
>

Kk

KS

in reply to "SamTheCat" on 21/02/2004 7:15 PM

22/02/2004 1:29 AM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...

> > Are you trying to cut the full 3/16" in one pass?
>
> yes -- I was under the impression that if the depth of the pass is less than
> the width of the cut then only one pass was / is necessary -- perhaps I am a
> bit to aggressive ?
>
Yes thats the general rule of thumb, and a good -quality- bit should
handle it. The way I see it is there are 4 options:
1. The bits are total pieces of shit and are defective.
2. The cut depth is too deep for YOUR feed rate.
3. Router speed is too slow for the depth of cut at YOUR feed rate.
4. Your hard maple has a rockwell hardness of 60
Take a guess where I would start at?


You’ve reached the end of replies