How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?
I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is 48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish) is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so it can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater extremes
found out of doors.
Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it so the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve. This
> means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
> probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but realistically,
> you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however, that
> poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to as
> glossy a finish.
>
> Preston
>
I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool followed
by pumice. (lots of elbow grease). :)
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
>
> If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> something wrong.
>
> As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
> it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
> will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
> finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
> scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
> light gets reflected from.
>
> Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
> go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
> coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
> practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > Mike,
> >
> > You are WAY off on this one.
> >
> > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> creating
> > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> >
> > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> >
> > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> > morning. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > >
> > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
> so,
> > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
> > then
> > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
> > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
> > can
> > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
> > > found out of doors.
> > >
> > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> > finish
> > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> lacquer
> > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
> the
> > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
> > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
> > the
> > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
> > finish
> > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> > > [email protected]
> > > Heirloom Woods
> > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
> > This
> > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
> > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > realistically,
> > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
> > that
> > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
> as
> > > > glossy a finish.
> > > >
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.
As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.
Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed 12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> Mike,
>
> You are WAY off on this one.
>
> Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
> more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
>
> Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
>
> I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> morning. :)
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> >
> > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
so,
> > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
> then
> > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish) is
> > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so it
> can
> > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater extremes
> > found out of doors.
> >
> > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> finish
> > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
> > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
the
> > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is to
> > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it so
> the
> > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
> finish
> > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
> > [email protected]
> > Heirloom Woods
> > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
> This
> > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
> > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> realistically,
> > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
> that
> > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to
as
> > > glossy a finish.
> > >
> > > Preston
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
This is incorrect from what I have read:
>If you want glossy don't rub out the finish.
Read here:
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/rubbingout.htm
exert:
"Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing and the object is to
remove imperfections, even out and smooth the surface, and establish a
consistent sheen to the finish."
"You'll be able to control the degree of luster (flat, satin or GLOSS) by
the materials and techniques that you use. "
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
>
> If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> something wrong.
>
> As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
> it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
> will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
> finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
> scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
> light gets reflected from.
>
> Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
> go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
> coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
> practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > Mike,
> >
> > You are WAY off on this one.
> >
> > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> creating
> > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> >
> > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> >
> > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> > morning. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > >
> > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
> so,
> > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
> > then
> > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
> > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
> > can
> > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
> > > found out of doors.
> > >
> > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> > finish
> > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> lacquer
> > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
> the
> > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
> > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
> > the
> > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
> > finish
> > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> > > [email protected]
> > > Heirloom Woods
> > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
> > This
> > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
> > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > realistically,
> > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
> > that
> > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
> as
> > > > glossy a finish.
> > > >
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Mike,
I'm not parroting, I'm backing up my experiences with literature. Can you?
Show me where you have read that rubbing out a finish doesn't produce a
gloss. Maybe your not doing it right. Have you thought about that?
I put a glossy finish on poly by first rubbing with 0000 steel wool followed
by pumice.
One of the purposes of rubbing out a finish are to put a "gloss" on the
finish.
You said you can't put a gloss on a finish by rubbing out. I simply
disagree.
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tell you what, when you figure out what depth in a finish is and can get
> your grain to appear to actually be 3D come back and talk to me.
>
> There may be some difference in the definition of gloss but you obviously
> don't have any idea what you are talking about and are parroting something
> you read.
>
> Of course you can stay blissfully ignorant if you wish, that is your
> business.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:M6jPb.92624$sv6.329504@attbi_s52...
> > >If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> > > question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been
doing
> > > something wrong.
> >
> >
> > You have been rubbing out finishes for years and you can't make a finish
> > glossy?
> >
> > Do you think maybe YOU are doing something wrong?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
> > >
> > > If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> > > question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been
doing
> > > something wrong.
> > >
> > > As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has
cured
> > hold
> > > it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of
what
> > you
> > > will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
> the
> > > finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
> > putting
> > > scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
> the
> > > light gets reflected from.
> > >
> > > Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
> > about
> > > go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
> rubbed
> > 12
> > > coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> > > reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a
finish
> > that
> > > practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> > > [email protected]
> > > Heirloom Woods
> > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
> news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > You are WAY off on this one.
> > > >
> > > > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> > > creating
> > > > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a
finish.
> > > >
> > > > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> > > >
> > > > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner
this
> > > > morning. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > > > >
> > > > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even
> more
> > > so,
> > > > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood
> movement
> > > > then
> > > > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil
> varnish)
> > is
> > > > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard
so
> > it
> > > > can
> > > > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
> > extremes
> > > > > found out of doors.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the
harder
> > > > finish
> > > > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> > > lacquer
> > > > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is
> not
> > > the
> > > > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim
is
> > to
> > > > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine
it
> > so
> > > > the
> > > > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving
> the
> > > > finish
> > > > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Mike G.
> > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > Heirloom Woods
> > > > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic
> curve.
> > > > This
> > > > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week,
> it
> > is
> > > > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > > > realistically,
> > > > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember
> however,
> > > > that
> > > > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed
out
> > to
> > > as
> > > > > > glossy a finish.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Preston
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool followed
by pumice. (lots of elbow grease). :)
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:T0jPb.95172$nt4.248306@attbi_s51...
> This is incorrect from what I have read:
>
> >If you want glossy don't rub out the finish.
>
> Read here:
> http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/rubbingout.htm
>
>
> exert:
> "Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing and the object is to
> remove imperfections, even out and smooth the surface, and establish a
> consistent sheen to the finish."
>
> "You'll be able to control the degree of luster (flat, satin or GLOSS) by
> the materials and techniques that you use. "
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
> >
> > If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> > question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> > something wrong.
> >
> > As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
> hold
> > it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
> you
> > will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
> > finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
> putting
> > scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
> > light gets reflected from.
> >
> > Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
> about
> > go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed
> 12
> > coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> > reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
> that
> > practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
> > [email protected]
> > Heirloom Woods
> > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > You are WAY off on this one.
> > >
> > > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> > creating
> > > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> > >
> > > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> > >
> > > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> > > morning. :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > > >
> > > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even
more
> > so,
> > > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood
movement
> > > then
> > > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil
varnish)
> is
> > > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
> it
> > > can
> > > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
> extremes
> > > > found out of doors.
> > > >
> > > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> > > finish
> > > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> > lacquer
> > > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is
not
> > the
> > > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
> to
> > > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
> so
> > > the
> > > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving
the
> > > finish
> > > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mike G.
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > Heirloom Woods
> > > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic
curve.
> > > This
> > > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week,
it
> is
> > > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > > realistically,
> > > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember
however,
> > > that
> > > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
> to
> > as
> > > > > glossy a finish.
> > > > >
> > > > > Preston
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
yes, Thanks. :)
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> did you mean 0000?
>
> dave
>
> stoutman wrote:
>
> > I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool
followed
> > by pumice. (lots of elbow grease). :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
> >>
> >>If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> >>question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> >>something wrong.
> >>
> >>As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
> >
> > hold
> >
> >>it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
> >
> > you
> >
> >>will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
> >>finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
> >
> > putting
> >
> >>scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
> >>light gets reflected from.
> >>
> >>Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
> >
> > about
> >
> >>go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed
> >
> > 12
> >
> >>coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> >>reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
> >
> > that
> >
> >>practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
> >>
> >>--
> >>Mike G.
> >>[email protected]
> >>Heirloom Woods
> >>www.heirloom-woods.net
> >>"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> >>
> >>>Mike,
> >>>
> >>>You are WAY off on this one.
> >>>
> >>>Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> >>
> >>creating
> >>
> >>>more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> >>>
> >>>Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> >>>
> >>>I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> >>>morning. :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>
> >>>>I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> >>>>
> >>>>Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
> >>
> >>so,
> >>
> >>>>something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
> >>>
> >>>then
> >>>
> >>>>shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
> >
> > is
> >
> >>>>marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
> >
> > it
> >
> >>>can
> >>>
> >>>>accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
> >
> > extremes
> >
> >>>>found out of doors.
> >>>>
> >>>>Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> >>>
> >>>finish
> >>>
> >>>>the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> >>
> >>lacquer
> >>
> >>>>or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
> >>
> >>the
> >>
> >>>>aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>>remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
> >
> > so
> >
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>>light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
> >>>
> >>>finish
> >>>
> >>>>a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Mike G.
> >>>>[email protected]
> >>>>Heirloom Woods
> >>>>www.heirloom-woods.net
> >>>>"Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>
> >>>>>If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
> >>>
> >>>This
> >>>
> >>>>>means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
> >
> > is
> >
> >>>>>probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> >>>
> >>>realistically,
> >>>
> >>>>>you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
> >>>
> >>>that
> >>>
> >>>>>poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
> >
> > to
> >
> >>as
> >>
> >>>>>glossy a finish.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Preston
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
I guess it all depends on your environment. If you live in cold climate,
I'd wait at least 48 hrs. It took me 1 week to put on 3 coats of poly for
my project.
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
> How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
> 0000 steel wool or pumice?
>
> I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
> yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
> hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
> Finishes. How long do you wait??
>
>
>
>
>If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> something wrong.
You have been rubbing out finishes for years and you can't make a finish
glossy?
Do you think maybe YOU are doing something wrong?
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
>
> If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> something wrong.
>
> As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
> it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
> will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
> finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
> scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
> light gets reflected from.
>
> Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
> go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
> coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
> practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > Mike,
> >
> > You are WAY off on this one.
> >
> > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> creating
> > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> >
> > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> >
> > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> > morning. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > >
> > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
> so,
> > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
> > then
> > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
> > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
> > can
> > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
> > > found out of doors.
> > >
> > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> > finish
> > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> lacquer
> > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
> the
> > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
> > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
> > the
> > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
> > finish
> > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> > > [email protected]
> > > Heirloom Woods
> > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
> > This
> > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
> > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > realistically,
> > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
> > that
> > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
> as
> > > > glossy a finish.
> > > >
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve. This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however, that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to as
glossy a finish.
Preston
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
> How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
> 0000 steel wool or pumice?
>
> I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
> yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
> hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
> Finishes. How long do you wait??
>
>
>
>
did you mean 0000?
dave
stoutman wrote:
> I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool followed
> by pumice. (lots of elbow grease). :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
>>
>>If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
>>question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
>>something wrong.
>>
>>As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
>
> hold
>
>>it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
>
> you
>
>>will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
>>finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
>
> putting
>
>>scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
>>light gets reflected from.
>>
>>Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
>
> about
>
>>go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
>
> 12
>
>>coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
>>reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
>
> that
>
>>practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
>>
>>--
>>Mike G.
>>[email protected]
>>Heirloom Woods
>>www.heirloom-woods.net
>>"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
>>
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>You are WAY off on this one.
>>>
>>>Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
>>
>>creating
>>
>>>more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
>>>
>>>Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
>>>
>>>I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
>>>morning. :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
>>>>
>>>>Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
>>
>>so,
>>
>>>>something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
>>>
>>>then
>>>
>>>>shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
>
> is
>
>>>>marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
>
> it
>
>>>can
>>>
>>>>accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
>
> extremes
>
>>>>found out of doors.
>>>>
>>>>Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
>>>
>>>finish
>>>
>>>>the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
>>
>>lacquer
>>
>>>>or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
>
> to
>
>>>>remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
>
> so
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
>>>
>>>finish
>>>
>>>>a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Mike G.
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>Heirloom Woods
>>>>www.heirloom-woods.net
>>>>"Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>>If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
>>>
>>>This
>>>
>>>>>means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
>
> is
>
>>>>>probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
>>>
>>>realistically,
>>>
>>>>>you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>>>poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
>
> to
>
>>as
>>
>>>>>glossy a finish.
>>>>>
>>>>>Preston
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
This is incorrect from what I have read:
>If you want glossy don't rub out the finish.
Read here:
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/rubbingout.htm
exert:
"Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing and the object is to
remove imperfections, even out and smooth the surface, and establish a
consistent sheen to the finish."
"You'll be able to control the degree of luster (flat, satin or GLOSS) by
the materials and techniques that you use. "
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
>
> If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> something wrong.
>
> As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
> it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
> will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
> finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
> scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
> light gets reflected from.
>
> Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
> go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
> coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
> practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > Mike,
> >
> > You are WAY off on this one.
> >
> > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> creating
> > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> >
> > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> >
> > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> > morning. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > >
> > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
> so,
> > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
> > then
> > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
> > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
> > can
> > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
> > > found out of doors.
> > >
> > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> > finish
> > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> lacquer
> > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
> the
> > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
> > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
> > the
> > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
> > finish
> > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> > > [email protected]
> > > Heirloom Woods
> > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
> > This
> > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
> > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > realistically,
> > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
> > that
> > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
> as
> > > > glossy a finish.
> > > >
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I usually try to wait at least 2 weeks, but I've done it as fast as 2-3
days. It does make a difference. The best approach is to actually put the
piece in it's actual location to be used and wait several weeks for it to
acclimate. Some things are simply too big to move around a lot, and I find
once something is in the house it get's used, so I have backed off from that
and just play it by ear. I don't tend to want the shiniest of finishes
anyway, so rubbing it out a bit premature doesn't bother me as much as it
might others.
Mike
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
> How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
> 0000 steel wool or pumice?
>
> I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
> yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
> hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
> Finishes. How long do you wait??
>
>
>
>
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
> How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
> 0000 steel wool or pumice?
>
> I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
> yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is 48
> hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
> Finishes. How long do you wait??
>
I'll assume you're refering to the final coat of 3 or more layers.
A month is about what I wait, sometimes longer.
However, since you're also refering to poly, it's more subjective.
Once it "fully" cures, its a bear to rub out. Not really any more difficult,
just more work. More time. A little more muscle.
I wait the full month in the summer, unless we're going through a long dry spell.
In the winter, since I'll rub it out in the "play room" which is well heated and dry as
the Saraha, I only wait about two weeks. ( I dont do much finish work in the winter.)
Good luck,
Myx
Mike,
You are WAY off on this one.
Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning. :)
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
>
> Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more so,
> something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
> shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish) is
> marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so it
can
> accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater extremes
> found out of doors.
>
> Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
> the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as lacquer
> or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not the
> aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is to
> remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it so
the
> light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
> a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
> > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
> > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
> > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
> > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to as
> > glossy a finish.
> >
> > Preston
> >
>
>
A day, two days, a week tops. Usually can't afford to have something sitting
around longer then that.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
> How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
> 0000 steel wool or pumice?
>
> I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
> yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
> hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
> Finishes. How long do you wait??
>
>
>
>
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:25:33 +0000, wrote:
> How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
> 0000 steel wool or pumice?
>
> I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
> yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
> 48 hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
> Finishes. How long do you wait??
Patience shows in fine finishing. In a few days, it'll be done and you
will have a piece to enjoy.
Depending on humidity and temperature, drying times vary. I usually apply
one day and then "adjust" the next.
Tell you what, when you figure out what depth in a finish is and can get
your grain to appear to actually be 3D come back and talk to me.
There may be some difference in the definition of gloss but you obviously
don't have any idea what you are talking about and are parroting something
you read.
Of course you can stay blissfully ignorant if you wish, that is your
business.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:M6jPb.92624$sv6.329504@attbi_s52...
> >If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> > question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> > something wrong.
>
>
> You have been rubbing out finishes for years and you can't make a finish
> glossy?
>
> Do you think maybe YOU are doing something wrong?
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.
> >
> > If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
> > question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
> > something wrong.
> >
> > As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
> hold
> > it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
> you
> > will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
> > finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
> putting
> > scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
> > light gets reflected from.
> >
> > Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
> about
> > go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed
> 12
> > coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
> > reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
> that
> > practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
> > [email protected]
> > Heirloom Woods
> > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > You are WAY off on this one.
> > >
> > > Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
> > creating
> > > more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.
> > >
> > > Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???
> > >
> > > I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
> > > morning. :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > I'd have to agree with that last on several points.
> > > >
> > > > Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even
more
> > so,
> > > > something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood
movement
> > > then
> > > > shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil
varnish)
> is
> > > > marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
> it
> > > can
> > > > accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
> extremes
> > > > found out of doors.
> > > >
> > > > Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
> > > finish
> > > > the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
> > lacquer
> > > > or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is
not
> > the
> > > > aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
> to
> > > > remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
> so
> > > the
> > > > light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving
the
> > > finish
> > > > a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mike G.
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > Heirloom Woods
> > > > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > > > "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic
curve.
> > > This
> > > > > means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week,
it
> is
> > > > > probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
> > > realistically,
> > > > > you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember
however,
> > > that
> > > > > poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
> to
> > as
> > > > > glossy a finish.
> > > > >
> > > > > Preston
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>