Normally, my hand tools hang on pegboard or sit on open shelves.
Not too long ago I bought a tool that turned out to be such a
pleasure to use that I kept it in the box it was shipped in (with
a couple of silica gel packets) so as to provide absolute
maximum protection.
I hadn't used it for about two months; but needed it this
afternoon. Took the box off the shelf and opened it up. You'll
have to infer what the tool looked like from my post-mortem shot
of the box - I didn't think to take a photo until after I'd had a
four-hour session with an extra fine diamond lapping plate and a
1200 grit EZLap file. There's also an "after" photo attached to
the ABPW copy.
As I was polishing out the pits, it occurred to me that this was
the first tool I'd ever stored in a cardboard box. I don't think
I'll make that mistake again...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> As I was polishing out the pits, it occurred to me that this was
> the first tool I'd ever stored in a cardboard box. I don't think
> I'll make that mistake again...
Much depends on the cardboard, and on the shop humidity. Acid-free
board is pretty much an essential for paper conservation and the same
principle applies for tool storage. Keeping it dry helps a lot too.
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Normally, my hand tools hang on pegboard or sit on open shelves.
> Not too long ago I bought a tool that turned out to be such a
> pleasure to use that I kept it in the box it was shipped in (with
> a couple of silica gel packets) so as to provide absolute
> maximum protection.
>
> I hadn't used it for about two months; but needed it this
> afternoon. Took the box off the shelf and opened it up. You'll
> have to infer what the tool looked like from my post-mortem shot
> of the box - I didn't think to take a photo until after I'd had a
> four-hour session with an extra fine diamond lapping plate and a
> 1200 grit EZLap file. There's also an "after" photo attached to
> the ABPW copy.
>
> As I was polishing out the pits, it occurred to me that this was
> the first tool I'd ever stored in a cardboard box. I don't think
> I'll make that mistake again...
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
Morris, what I saw was some discoloration of the sole. Is it that of which you speak?
I wonder why the cardboard would be the culprit unless it was somewhat damp from
shipment to you.
Hoyt W.
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Hoyt Weathers wrote:
>
> > Morris, what I saw was some discoloration of the sole. Is it
> > that of which you speak? I wonder why the cardboard would be
> > the culprit unless it was somewhat damp from shipment to you.
>
> By the time I took pix of the plane, the sides and sole were
> mirror bright. Anything you see there is a reflection of
> something else.
>
> When I opened the box, the plane was measled with pitted rust
> spots varying from about 1/32" to 1/8", with some very fine rust
> (without significant pitting) on the sole. The rust stains in the
> box matched the spots on the plane.
>
> I'm sure the cardboard started out dry (or I'd have seen rust
> well before now); but Iowa has been rather humid this spring -
> and I think that the cardboard absorbed its full share. Once the
> cardboard took in the moisture; it shared with the iron.
>
> [Actually, "saturated" is more apt than "humid". Our weather
> pattern resembles that of '93, except that every thunderstorm
> seems to be spawning tornados - a small town in northern Iowa has
> been pretty well obliterated, local rivers and streams are at or
> above flood stage, and the meteorologists are predicting more for
> Saturday and Sunday. If this continues, Iowa farmers may have to
> shift from corn and soybeans to rice; and I may have to ask Robin
> to introduce stainless steel planes.]
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
Morris, TKX for the details. I always enjoy reading your postings and replies.
Hoyt W.
I store some of my planes in the cardboard they came in. I rap them with the
craft paper they came with. I also treat them with camellia oil. No
corrosion yet. The camellia oil goes on my tenon and dovetail saws as well.
:-)
"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>
> > Normally, my hand tools hang on pegboard or sit on open shelves.
> > Not too long ago I bought a tool that turned out to be such a
> > pleasure to use that I kept it in the box it was shipped in (with
> > a couple of silica gel packets) so as to provide absolute
> > maximum protection.
> >
> > I hadn't used it for about two months; but needed it this
> > afternoon. Took the box off the shelf and opened it up. You'll
> > have to infer what the tool looked like from my post-mortem shot
> > of the box - I didn't think to take a photo until after I'd had a
> > four-hour session with an extra fine diamond lapping plate and a
> > 1200 grit EZLap file. There's also an "after" photo attached to
> > the ABPW copy.
> >
> > As I was polishing out the pits, it occurred to me that this was
> > the first tool I'd ever stored in a cardboard box. I don't think
> > I'll make that mistake again...
> >
> > --
> > Morris Dovey
> > DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
> Morris, what I saw was some discoloration of the sole. Is it that of which
you speak?
> I wonder why the cardboard would be the culprit unless it was somewhat
damp from
> shipment to you.
>
> Hoyt W.
>
>
Now we know why they tout acid-free papers for books and archival matting.
I'm a WD-40 on paper towel type, and mine're in a basement.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In any event, even a nice, sturdy cardboard box doesn't appear to
> be the best choice.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
I'll add one more item to watch out for. I stored a plane on its side in a
cabinet that has a spare piece of poly insulating foam on the shelf.
Thought it was a smart idea to have a soft landing place under the plane.
Guess what, it started to rust the plane on the surface that was in contact
with the foam. I think I'll cut a piece of plywood for the shelf protector.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 11:41:44 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >Now we know why they tout acid-free papers for books and archival
matting.
>
> Merely "acid-free" isn't even enough. Archival grade papers and boards
> are also "buffered" with an excess of an alkaline base, so as to avoid
> any chance of acid production in the future. Most organic materials
> become acidic with age/decay, particularly proteins in animal glues,
> leather, furs etc.
>
> One exception is for storing colour prints. These should be acid-free,
> but the alkaline buffers are just as damaging as something too acid.
>
> Then there are the obscure problems too. One of the worst environments
> to store high quality measuring instruments or tools is in a wool
> baize-lined wooden box. Wool is full of sulphur and becomes very acid
> over time. The only thing worse is storing silver in such a box,
> because sulphur is the primary cause of black silver tarnish.
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
Acid woods accelerate rust just like acid papers. Avoid oak, cherry, and
such.
"Dustmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'll add one more item to watch out for. I stored a plane on its side in
a
> cabinet that has a spare piece of poly insulating foam on the shelf.
> Thought it was a smart idea to have a soft landing place under the plane.
> Guess what, it started to rust the plane on the surface that was in
contact
> with the foam. I think I'll cut a piece of plywood for the shelf
protector.
>
In article <[email protected]>,
John Emmons <[email protected]> wrote:
>An aircraft hangar? Crikey, where'd you find a box big enough to put a plane
>into...?
Lessee,
"Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co." advertises that they have
"*EVERYTHING* for airplanes!"
Then up in the Seattle area, is "Boeing Surplus" --- absolutely
*anything* is likely to turn up there.
Also true for DOD Surplus sales. The (former Strategic Air Command)
facility outside Omaha was good for some _real_ eyebrow-raising stuff
on occasion.
Or, in the spirit of the answer to "Who brought the first piano to America?"
the authoritative answer is "from a plane box salesman." <grin>
>
>"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> vmtw wrote:
>>
>> > I would think that if cardboard were the culprit that all of the
>> > planes that that the manufacturer sells would have this issue. I
>> > would also think that the silica bags and oil wrap paper in the
>> > cardboard box would protect the steel, to a point. Do you keep the
>> > plane in the garage, or in the basement? I find that I need to run a
>> > humidifier in my basement in the summer. I live in Decorah Iowa by
>> > the way, and know what you mean about the rain!
>>
>> Neither garage nor basement. My shop's in an aircraft hanger. You
>> can catch a glimpse at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/pix.html
>>
>> What the shop has in space is more than made up for by the lack
>> of environmental control - though it does have a nice big door (-:
>>
>> --
>> Morris Dovey
>> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>>
>
>
On Mon, 31 May 2004 19:21:39 GMT, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>Would a chunk of wool carpet be ok?
So long as there's no wool in it ! Synthetic carpet is better.
In fact, wool isn't too bad either. But there is a problem with using
wool near really fine work, especially silver or silver inlay (and you
can imagine the problem with niello).
--
Smert' spamionam
Hoyt Weathers wrote:
> Morris, what I saw was some discoloration of the sole. Is it
> that of which you speak? I wonder why the cardboard would be
> the culprit unless it was somewhat damp from shipment to you.
By the time I took pix of the plane, the sides and sole were
mirror bright. Anything you see there is a reflection of
something else.
When I opened the box, the plane was measled with pitted rust
spots varying from about 1/32" to 1/8", with some very fine rust
(without significant pitting) on the sole. The rust stains in the
box matched the spots on the plane.
I'm sure the cardboard started out dry (or I'd have seen rust
well before now); but Iowa has been rather humid this spring -
and I think that the cardboard absorbed its full share. Once the
cardboard took in the moisture; it shared with the iron.
[Actually, "saturated" is more apt than "humid". Our weather
pattern resembles that of '93, except that every thunderstorm
seems to be spawning tornados - a small town in northern Iowa has
been pretty well obliterated, local rivers and streams are at or
above flood stage, and the meteorologists are predicting more for
Saturday and Sunday. If this continues, Iowa farmers may have to
shift from corn and soybeans to rice; and I may have to ask Robin
to introduce stainless steel planes.]
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
After all this, how square is it now?
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Normally, my hand tools hang on pegboard or sit on open shelves.
> Not too long ago I bought a tool that turned out to be such a
> pleasure to use that I kept it in the box it was shipped in (with
> a couple of silica gel packets) so as to provide absolute
> maximum protection.
>
> I hadn't used it for about two months; but needed it this
> afternoon. Took the box off the shelf and opened it up. You'll
> have to infer what the tool looked like from my post-mortem shot
> of the box - I didn't think to take a photo until after I'd had a
> four-hour session with an extra fine diamond lapping plate and a
> 1200 grit EZLap file. There's also an "after" photo attached to
> the ABPW copy.
>
> As I was polishing out the pits, it occurred to me that this was
> the first tool I'd ever stored in a cardboard box. I don't think
> I'll make that mistake again...
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
Guess I missed the original post, my Lie-Neilson planes are stored in those
rust preventing "plane socks", I live in Alabama so I keep the tools in the
house.
RJ
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 31 May 2004 19:21:39 GMT, patriarch
> <<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Would a chunk of wool carpet be ok?
>
> So long as there's no wool in it ! Synthetic carpet is better.
>
> In fact, wool isn't too bad either. But there is a problem with using
> wool near really fine work, especially silver or silver inlay (and you
> can imagine the problem with niello).
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
Try wooden planes. Mine have not rusted to date.
"rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LPSuc.27504$4A6.3491@attbi_s52...
> Guess I missed the original post, my Lie-Neilson planes are stored in
those
> rust preventing "plane socks", I live in Alabama so I keep the tools in
the
> house.
> RJ
> "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 31 May 2004 19:21:39 GMT, patriarch
> > <<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Would a chunk of wool carpet be ok?
> >
> > So long as there's no wool in it ! Synthetic carpet is better.
> >
> > In fact, wool isn't too bad either. But there is a problem with using
> > wool near really fine work, especially silver or silver inlay (and you
> > can imagine the problem with niello).
> >
> > --
> > Smert' spamionam
>
>
>
An aircraft hangar? Crikey, where'd you find a box big enough to put a plane
into...?
John Emmons
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> vmtw wrote:
>
> > I would think that if cardboard were the culprit that all of the
> > planes that that the manufacturer sells would have this issue. I
> > would also think that the silica bags and oil wrap paper in the
> > cardboard box would protect the steel, to a point. Do you keep the
> > plane in the garage, or in the basement? I find that I need to run a
> > humidifier in my basement in the summer. I live in Decorah Iowa by
> > the way, and know what you mean about the rain!
>
> Neither garage nor basement. My shop's in an aircraft hanger. You
> can catch a glimpse at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/pix.html
>
> What the shop has in space is more than made up for by the lack
> of environmental control - though it does have a nice big door (-:
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Normally, my hand tools hang on pegboard or sit on open shelves.
> Not too long ago I bought a tool that turned out to be such a
> pleasure to use that I kept it in the box it was shipped in (with
> a couple of silica gel packets) so as to provide absolute
> maximum protection.
>
Morris:
I suspect the biggest contributor to your problem was your confidence in the
silica gel. Desicant packages do work, but they work by absorbing the
moisture in their environment. Once they've done this they are effectively
inert and afford no further protection. They can be renewed by placing them
in an oven a very low temps for a while or even by "baking" them under
normal light bulbs. You simply need to dry them out and then place them
back in the box. With many of these packages you can't see the actual
material so you have no visual indicator that the desicant in saturated, but
typically it changes color when it is. Using your cardboard box and the
desicant packages can be a viable storage technique, just make sure you keep
your desicant dried out from time to time. There might indeed be easier
ways...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> vmtw wrote:
>
>> I would think that if cardboard were the culprit that all of the
>> planes that that the manufacturer sells would have this issue. I
>> would also think that the silica bags and oil wrap paper in the
>> cardboard box would protect the steel, to a point. Do you keep the
>> plane in the garage, or in the basement? I find that I need to run a
>> humidifier in my basement in the summer. I live in Decorah Iowa by
>> the way, and know what you mean about the rain!
>
> Neither garage nor basement. My shop's in an aircraft hanger. You
> can catch a glimpse at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/pix.html
>
> What the shop has in space is more than made up for by the lack
> of environmental control - though it does have a nice big door (-:
>
Geez Morris where else would you expect to park a plane.(G)
GJP
Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:47:16 -0500, "Dustmaker"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'll add one more item to watch out for. I stored a plane on its side
>>in a cabinet that has a spare piece of poly insulating foam on the
>>shelf. Thought it was a smart idea to have a soft landing place under
>>the plane. Guess what, it started to rust the plane on the surface
>>that was in contact with the foam. I think I'll cut a piece of
>>plywood for the shelf protector.
>
> What sort of foam ? Material ? Open or closed cell ? Any close
> contact like this is a risk for rust (even with VPI paper, if you wait
> long enough), but for closed cell soft polyethylene foam it's most
> unusual. Polyurethane foam is well-known as a nightmare and blown
> polystyrene isn't that good either.
>
Would a chunk of wool carpet be ok?
Patriarch
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Normally, my hand tools hang on pegboard or sit on open shelves.
> Not too long ago I bought a tool that turned out to be such a
> pleasure to use that I kept it in the box it was shipped in (with
> a couple of silica gel packets) so as to provide absolute
> maximum protection.
>
> I hadn't used it for about two months; but needed it this
> afternoon. Took the box off the shelf and opened it up. You'll
> have to infer what the tool looked like from my post-mortem shot
> of the box - I didn't think to take a photo until after I'd had a
> four-hour session with an extra fine diamond lapping plate and a
> 1200 grit EZLap file. There's also an "after" photo attached to
> the ABPW copy.
>
> As I was polishing out the pits, it occurred to me that this was
> the first tool I'd ever stored in a cardboard box. I don't think
> I'll make that mistake again...
I would think that if cardboard were the culprit that all of the
planes that that the manufacturer sells would have this issue. I
would also think that the silica bags and oil wrap paper in the
cardboard box would protect the steel, to a point. Do you keep the
plane in the garage, or in the basement? I find that I need to run a
humidifier in my basement in the summer. I live in Decorah Iowa by
the way, and know what you mean about the rain!
On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:47:16 -0500, "Dustmaker"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'll add one more item to watch out for. I stored a plane on its side in a
>cabinet that has a spare piece of poly insulating foam on the shelf.
>Thought it was a smart idea to have a soft landing place under the plane.
>Guess what, it started to rust the plane on the surface that was in contact
>with the foam. I think I'll cut a piece of plywood for the shelf protector.
What sort of foam ? Material ? Open or closed cell ? Any close
contact like this is a risk for rust (even with VPI paper, if you wait
long enough), but for closed cell soft polyethylene foam it's most
unusual. Polyurethane foam is well-known as a nightmare and blown
polystyrene isn't that good either.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Fri, 28 May 2004 11:41:44 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>Now we know why they tout acid-free papers for books and archival matting.
Merely "acid-free" isn't even enough. Archival grade papers and boards
are also "buffered" with an excess of an alkaline base, so as to avoid
any chance of acid production in the future. Most organic materials
become acidic with age/decay, particularly proteins in animal glues,
leather, furs etc.
One exception is for storing colour prints. These should be acid-free,
but the alkaline buffers are just as damaging as something too acid.
Then there are the obscure problems too. One of the worst environments
to store high quality measuring instruments or tools is in a wool
baize-lined wooden box. Wool is full of sulphur and becomes very acid
over time. The only thing worse is storing silver in such a box,
because sulphur is the primary cause of black silver tarnish.
--
Smert' spamionam
Well, if it is as square as you can measure with resonable quality tools,
it's good enough for anything you could use it for.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>
> > After all this, how square is it now?
>
> Well, it's square to the tolerances of my measuring tools (but
> probably not as square as it was when it came off the production
> line :-)
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
Mike Marlow wrote:
> I suspect the biggest contributor to your problem was your
> confidence in the silica gel.
I think you're right. That and misplaced confidence that the
cardboard box offered anything more than mechanical protection.
I have a couple of planes sitting out in the open that fared much
better than the one in the box - and this contributed to the
false confidence. Another plane in a wooden box (on the same
shelf!) remained as it was when I put it away.
My storage environment is terrible; and accelerated rusting. I
suspect that the same problem would occur in a nore "normal"
environment - but at a slower pace.
In any event, even a nice, sturdy cardboard box doesn't appear to
be the best choice.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
vmtw wrote:
> I would think that if cardboard were the culprit that all of the
> planes that that the manufacturer sells would have this issue. I
> would also think that the silica bags and oil wrap paper in the
> cardboard box would protect the steel, to a point. Do you keep the
> plane in the garage, or in the basement? I find that I need to run a
> humidifier in my basement in the summer. I live in Decorah Iowa by
> the way, and know what you mean about the rain!
Neither garage nor basement. My shop's in an aircraft hanger. You
can catch a glimpse at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/pix.html
What the shop has in space is more than made up for by the lack
of environmental control - though it does have a nice big door (-:
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA