On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:31:03 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>snip
>>>>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>>>>>
>... snip
>>>
>>>
snip
>>grain running side to side. This requires some method to deal with
>>wood movement.. Hence, the back is left open and the drawer tacked in
>>using a slotted screw hole .
>
> Seems like the same effect would be achieved by leaving sufficient
>clearance in the back dado.
>
If you have a deep drawer; the movement due to moisture could be as
much as, or more than, the thickness of the drawer back. In other
words; you cannot make the dado deep enough to allow for maximum wood
movement due to moisture.
Alan Bierbaum
web site: http://www.calanb.com
On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:44:18 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put the
>drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that the
>speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
>the joint apart?
>
>todd
>
Thanks for the tip. I'm storing this one so that I can refer to it when
I build my next set of drawers. ;-)
Your observation about how fast glue sets up is spot on: there is also a
corollary when you want the glue to set up so you can stop holding the
piece in place.
That crossed my mind too Dave. Although I don't usually build them that
way, that would be a good way to fix the problem. Just take a cut across
the back of the drawer and slip the bottom in place. My preference for
drawers is to enclose them in a dado on all four sides. I've seen too many
drawers with the bottom sagging loose at the back, which of course is not a
problem with the technique but with the execution.
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:44:18 -0500, Todd Fatheree
<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put
the
> > drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that
the
> > speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to
take
> > the joint apart?
>
> Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
> this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
>
> Dave Hinz
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>
> > Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
> > this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
>
> Now you know just one of the reasons why the above is still my favorite
> method of drawer construction. I've never had one sag and, should someone
> ask, rank the ability to do any future fixes to the bottom of a drawer as
an
> important *feature*.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 5/15/04
So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just narrower
such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on the other
pieces?
todd
On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:44:18 -0500, Todd Fatheree <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put the
> drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that the
> speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
> the joint apart?
Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
Dave Hinz
On Fri, 28 May 2004 07:32:36 -0700, Wes Stewart <n7ws@_arrl.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:44:18 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>|Has anyone else noticed that the
>|speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
>|the joint apart?
>
> Especially if you've just fired in some brads to hold it together
> until the glue dries. [g].
Hm, that sounds familiar.
On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:51:01 -0500, Todd Fatheree <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just narrower
> such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on the other
> pieces?
The way I do it is to rabbet the groove in all 4, and then cut off the back
from the rabbet down. The drawer bottom then slides right in the
back, 3 brads with large-ish heads and I'm done. Might be another
way to do it, but that's what I've been doing.
Dave Hinz
Todd Fatheree wrote:
>
> Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put the
> drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that the
> speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
> the joint apart?
>
> todd
And it's not just drawers.
I'm doing a box - profiled maple bottom "frame" with fiddle back cherry
panel, rosewood carcase/carcass, profiled maple top "frame" with
fiddle back cherry panel. The "frames" have 1/4" loose tenon joints,
which, while great for aligning things and strengthening the miter join,
makes the glue up a little more complicated. And if you're doing it at
midnite - well ....
Fortunately, the carcase/carcass hasn't been glued up yet so I can
still route a groove in those parts for the bottom panel. Of course
the dado on the inside of the bottom maple frame will show. Maybe
I'll put cherry in the groove and call it an intended inlay "feature"
that only the owner will know about. People love secrets. There's
a Navajo or Hopi jeweler, Charles Laloma, who does bracelets and
rings which have the best stones in the piece on the inside of the
piece.
Short of "shorting" a part, most screw ups can, with a little
imagination, be turned into a "feature".
charlie b
All roads lead to Rome. But the closer you get, the longer it
takes to get there.
> > So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just
> > narrower such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on
> > the other pieces?
> >
> > todd
>
> Yep.
>
> Patriarch
And here's Frank Klausz's method of cutting the groove for the bottom
AND getting the back piece to line up with the groove.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer5.html
charlie b
On Sun, 30 May 2004 00:54:17 GMT, "Greg Millen" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:CQ%[email protected]...
>> This is completely dependent on whose drawers. I have no desire to feel
>the
>> bottom of your drawers no matter how much you assure me well they fit.
>> OTOH, I can think of a few ladies who I'd not mind feeling the bottom of
>> their drawers.
>
>Yabbut Ed, if you find hotmelt glue there your gonna change your mind real
>quick.
>
Dang, forgot to swallow before reading that. Now, where's the Windex?
Tiplette No. 1:
Tack down some scraps of wood at right angles (into an
L-shape) onto a sacrificial surface (1/4" melamine) and
assemble your box against these scraps.
Tiplette No. 2:
Undersize your drawer bottom a smidge (smidges are found on
your tape/rule and are the smallest of ticks) so you can
pull the drawer square/aren't fighting the drawer bottom.
Tiplette No 3:
Dry fit your drawers (for the obvious reasons) and while the
whole works are still clamped together pre-finish the
interior(s) so that glue squeeze out pops out/off. Shellac
Onna Rag works good for this.
Tiplette No. 4:
Don't glue the bottom in. Wait for the box sides to set
(dry) and flip the whole thing over, re-check for square
(square up if needed) and run a bead of hot melt (that glue
gun you bought and never seem to use) around the rim of the
box. In fact, if you like you can make the groove a couple
of smidges (at least two of the smallest ticks) too wide,
flip the box over, weight down the drawer bottom (I prefer a
bag of lead shot for this) and fill the gap with the hot
melt. This leaves no gap on the show side.
Tiplette No. 4 might be a wee bit beyond the pale for some
who like to go around and feel up the bottoms of drawers so
you've really got to ask yourself, am I the type to go
around and feel up the bottoms of drawers?
Oh and the question has to be asked, when was the last time
you had to do maintenance on a drawer? Me? I'm thinking
should you ever have a drawer fail you'd probably be better
off re-making it, but then again, that's just me.
UA100
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CQ%[email protected]...
> This is completely dependent on whose drawers. I have no desire to feel
the
> bottom of your drawers no matter how much you assure me well they fit.
> OTOH, I can think of a few ladies who I'd not mind feeling the bottom of
> their drawers.
Yabbut Ed, if you find hotmelt glue there your gonna change your mind real
quick.
On Sat, 29 May 2004 19:13:22 -0600, Alan Bierbaum <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:31:03 GMT, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>snip
>
>>>>>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>... snip
>>>>
>>>>
>snip
>
>>>grain running side to side. This requires some method to deal with
>>>wood movement.. Hence, the back is left open and the drawer tacked in
>>>using a slotted screw hole .
>>
>> Seems like the same effect would be achieved by leaving sufficient
>>clearance in the back dado.
>>
>If you have a deep drawer; the movement due to moisture could be as
>much as, or more than, the thickness of the drawer back. In other
>words; you cannot make the dado deep enough to allow for maximum wood
>movement due to moisture.
>
>
>Alan Bierbaum
ah, good point. I'll keep that in mind in the future. Thanks.
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Tiplette No. 4 might be a wee bit beyond the pale for some
> who like to go around and feel up the bottoms of drawers so
> you've really got to ask yourself, am I the type to go
> around and feel up the bottoms of drawers?
This is completely dependent on whose drawers. I have no desire to feel the
bottom of your drawers no matter how much you assure me well they fit.
OTOH, I can think of a few ladies who I'd not mind feeling the bottom of
their drawers.
Ed
"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
> So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just narrower
> such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on the other
> pieces?
Yep ... the back of the drawer bottom slides into place and is fastened to
the bottom of the back of the drawer, at the same level that the groove/dado
is cut.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
"Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>>
>> > Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place?
>> > Or is this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
>>
>> Now you know just one of the reasons why the above is still my
>> favorite method of drawer construction. I've never had one sag and,
>> should someone ask, rank the ability to do any future fixes to the
>> bottom of a drawer as
> an
>> important *feature*.
>>
>> --
>> www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 5/15/04
>
> So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just
> narrower such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on
> the other pieces?
>
> todd
Yep.
Patriarch
charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I'm doing a box - profiled maple bottom "frame" with fiddle back
> cherry panel, rosewood carcase/carcass, profiled maple top "frame"
> with fiddle back cherry panel.
<snippage>
You always seem to be using the most fascinating woods...
Patriarch
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
> Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
> this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
Now you know just one of the reasons why the above is still my favorite
method of drawer construction. I've never had one sag and, should someone
ask, rank the ability to do any future fixes to the bottom of a drawer as an
important *feature*.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
Todd Fatheree wrote:
> Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put the
> drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that the
> speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
> the joint apart?
>
> todd
>
>
It's almost as hard as trying to route the grooves for the bottom after the
glueup:-( Then you have to round the corners to fit in the front and hand
saw/chisel the pieces in the back the router can't reach.
Joe
On 29 May 2004 08:36:08 -0500, jev <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 29 May 2004 02:14:46 GMT, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:51:01 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>>>>
... snip
>>
>>
>> Frankly, I like the way you do it better, it just seems that it will make
>>a stronger drawer.
>
>If you are using a plywood bottom then the usual method is to glue it
>in resulting in a very strong drawer. The method being described of
>sliding the dawer in is generally used in 'fine' furniture where the
>drawer bottom is of solid wood. The bottom panel is glued up with the
>grain running side to side. This requires some method to deal with
>wood movement.. Hence, the back is left open and the drawer tacked in
>using a slotted screw hole .
Seems like the same effect would be achieved by leaving sufficient
clearance in the back dado.
> Note: Don't make the mistake of gluing
>up bottom panel with grain running front to back of drawer unless you
>want some very stuck drawers :-)
Yep, the current issue of FWW had to publish a correction to one of their
prior issues pointing out exactly that.
On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:44:18 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
<[email protected]> wrote:
|Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put the
|drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up.
Good tip; I will try to remember it.
|Has anyone else noticed that the
|speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
|the joint apart?
Especially if you've just fired in some brads to hold it together
until the glue dries. [g].
On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:51:01 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>>
>> > Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
>> > this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
>>
>> Now you know just one of the reasons why the above is still my favorite
>> method of drawer construction. I've never had one sag and, should someone
>> ask, rank the ability to do any future fixes to the bottom of a drawer as
>an
>> important *feature*.
>>
>> --
>> www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 5/15/04
>
>So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just narrower
>such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on the other
>pieces?
>
>todd
>
Frankly, I like the way you do it better, it just seems that it will make
a stronger drawer.
I'm sure that's never been done before...
I did one and stepped out for some dinner... That required
a table saw to fix...
Todd Fatheree wrote:
> Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put the
> drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that the
> speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to take
> the joint apart?
>
> todd
>
>
On Sat, 29 May 2004 02:14:46 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:51:01 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> "Dave Hinz" wrote in message
>>>
>>> > Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
>>> > this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
>>>
>>> Now you know just one of the reasons why the above is still my favorite
>>> method of drawer construction. I've never had one sag and, should someone
>>> ask, rank the ability to do any future fixes to the bottom of a drawer as
>>an
>>> important *feature*.
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.e-woodshop.net
>>> Last update: 5/15/04
>>
>>So, when you make the back of the drawer, it the back piece just narrower
>>such that the bottom is in line with the top of the groove on the other
>>pieces?
>>
>>todd
>>
>
>
> Frankly, I like the way you do it better, it just seems that it will make
>a stronger drawer.
If you are using a plywood bottom then the usual method is to glue it
in resulting in a very strong drawer. The method being described of
sliding the dawer in is generally used in 'fine' furniture where the
drawer bottom is of solid wood. The bottom panel is glued up with the
grain running side to side. This requires some method to deal with
wood movement.. Hence, the back is left open and the drawer tacked in
using a slotted screw hole . Note: Don't make the mistake of gluing
up bottom panel with grain running front to back of drawer unless you
want some very stuck drawers :-)
Ladies' drawers aside, thanx for the excellent tiplettes!
Renata
On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:21:37 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Tiplette No. 1:
>Tack down some scraps of wood at right angles (into an
>L-shape) onto a sacrificial surface (1/4" melamine) and
>assemble your box against these scraps.
>
>Tiplette No. 2:
>Undersize your drawer bottom a smidge (smidges are found on
>your tape/rule and are the smallest of ticks) so you can
>pull the drawer square/aren't fighting the drawer bottom.
>
>Tiplette No 3:
>Dry fit your drawers (for the obvious reasons) and while the
>whole works are still clamped together pre-finish the
>interior(s) so that glue squeeze out pops out/off. Shellac
>Onna Rag works good for this.
>
>Tiplette No. 4:
>Don't glue the bottom in. Wait for the box sides to set
>(dry) and flip the whole thing over, re-check for square
>(square up if needed) and run a bead of hot melt (that glue
>gun you bought and never seem to use) around the rim of the
>box. In fact, if you like you can make the groove a couple
>of smidges (at least two of the smallest ticks) too wide,
>flip the box over, weight down the drawer bottom (I prefer a
>bag of lead shot for this) and fill the gap with the hot
>melt. This leaves no gap on the show side.
>
>Tiplette No. 4 might be a wee bit beyond the pale for some
>who like to go around and feel up the bottoms of drawers so
>you've really got to ask yourself, am I the type to go
>around and feel up the bottoms of drawers?
>
>Oh and the question has to be asked, when was the last time
>you had to do maintenance on a drawer? Me? I'm thinking
>should you ever have a drawer fail you'd probably be better
>off re-making it, but then again, that's just me.
>
>UA100
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 08:44:18 -0500, Todd Fatheree
<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Here's a little woodworking tip. When you're gluing up a drawer, put
the
> > drawer bottom in BEFORE you glue it up. Has anyone else noticed that
the
> > speed at which glue sets up is directly proportional to your need to
take
> > the joint apart?
>
> Doesn't the bottom slide in from the back & get tacked in place? Or is
> this a fancier drawer than I've been building?
>
> Dave Hinz
The way I've always done it, which is neither right nor wrong, is to dado
every drawer side and slide the bottom in during glue-up.
todd