There've been some threads wandering around the Wreck lately about the
finer points of printing.
Well, I'd like to ask some questions of the printing intelligentsia
that have been bothering me for some time.
When I was in college, I was on the student newspaper and we ran our
columns in 8 point by 11 and a half. That was the standard and we
didn't question it, we just did it.
It seemed a reasonable enough size to run things at and no one ever
complained, to my knowledge.
I'd personally be happy to read things at that size any day.
Why is it then that, when I have the flu and am least able to tolerate
directions on my medicine that are less than what I would call
standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
eye crazy?
Is this a conspiracy of the young and healthy against the old and
infirm? Do they package medicines intentionally with instructions
written so small as to be indecipherable by anyone who is not a
sharpshooter?
And, while I'm on this, does the tamper-proof packaging have to also
be human-proof. Is the packaging created by twenty-something
year-olds who have no clue as to what it means to be both visually and
coordinationally impaired while under duress.
I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
packaging.
It's fuggin' ageism and I don't think they should let packaging
engineers who are under fifty work on any of this stuff.
That's it. I'm going to bed now.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Dear Tom,
> And, while I'm on this, does the tamper-proof packaging have to also
> be human-proof. Is the packaging created by twenty-something
> year-olds who have no clue as to what it means to be both visually and
> coordinationally impaired while under duress.
Isn't that what a bandsaw is for?
David.
P.S. I hope you are feeling better...
Tom Watson wrote:
> standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
> point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
> eye crazy?
Sans-serif is just the way things are done now.
I would guess that if fonts on medication are smaller than they used to be,
it's for two reasons. First up, there's a lot of pressure on everyone to
make packaging smaller. Smaller boxes, smaller bottles, and consequently,
smaller type. Second, there's a lot more stuff to print on these things
than there used to be. For example, the warning on the can of
"Oven-Roasted Peanuts" that declares "WARNING: THIS PRODUCT WAS PROCESSED
ON EQUIPMENT THAT PROCESSES PEANUTS AND OTHER TREE NUTS."
Well, for one thing, peanuts were processed in a factory that processes
peanuts. No shit, Sherlock. For another, "other tree nuts." What do you
mean "other" tree nuts? Peanuts are legumes. They don't grow on trees.
> Is this a conspiracy of the young and healthy against the old and
> infirm? Do they package medicines intentionally with instructions
> written so small as to be indecipherable by anyone who is not a
> sharpshooter?
Is that what the future holds for me? Being a 30-something, I'm tempted to
tell you to put your damn glasses on. I can read that stuff just fine with
my glasses on. OTOH, I find myself doing the arm-extension focus thing
more and more, and can see bifocals in my future. It's a pity that the
body starts going all to hell at an age when I'm not even entitled to bitch
about getting older yet.
We live to be 100 maybe, but everything after 25 is a process of slow decay.
My wrists have started bothering me. I have a ganglion cyst on my left
wrist that's showing no signs of going away on its own, so I guess I have
to fork over some real money to get rid of it, or live with it. I have a
knot in my left pinky finger that constantly bothers me when I'm at the
lathe, or running a hand plane. My uncle says it's probably a lump on one
of my tendons. Says I get to look forward to having that in all my fingers
in both hands sooner or later, so I should get used to it.
My right knee screams at me almost constantly. My right hip cracks and pops
and just doesn't feel normal. My neck is too tight, and sounds like a box
of Rice Crispies (boy, what a gay name that is...) when I rotate my head.
My right shoulder hurts a lot. My pubic hair, including my beard, is
turning snow white already, and I've only had hair on my balls for a little
more than fifteen years as it is. It just got here in geological terms,
and it's already falling apart. My widow's peak is a thing of the past,
and my forehead gets a little bigger every time I really look at myself in
the mirror. I have crow's feet already, and the wrinkles in my forehead
don't smooth out the way they used to.
I have to watch what I eat so I don't get gas. I have digestion problems,
acid reflux problems. If I forget to take my antacid before bed I wind up
with an esophagus full of stomach juice by morning. I have to sleep with
my head elevated. I can't sleep on my sides or my stomach anymore because
my arms fall asleep. I've had a perpetual sinus infection for 10 years,
and I can't smell anything except shit and skunks.
Oh well, at least I can read the fine print on medicine bottles, so I guess
I have nothing to complain about.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan <[email protected]> writes:
> Tom Watson wrote:
> > standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
> > point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
> > eye crazy?
>
> Sans-serif is just the way things are done now.
>
> I would guess that if fonts on medication are smaller than they used to be,
> it's for two reasons. First up, there's a lot of pressure on everyone to
> make packaging smaller. Smaller boxes, smaller bottles, and consequently,
> smaller type. Second, there's a lot more stuff to print on these things
> than there used to be. For example, the warning on the can of
> "Oven-Roasted Peanuts" that declares "WARNING: THIS PRODUCT WAS PROCESSED
> ON EQUIPMENT THAT PROCESSES PEANUTS AND OTHER TREE NUTS."
>
> Well, for one thing, peanuts were processed in a factory that processes
> peanuts. No shit, Sherlock. For another, "other tree nuts." What do you
> mean "other" tree nuts? Peanuts are legumes. They don't grow on trees.
I was reading the instructions that came with some eye
medicine. It stated that the results of using the
medicine could be anything from doing nothing to causing
blindness. That should cover just about any outcome...
In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>There've been some threads wandering around the Wreck lately about the
>finer points of printing.
>
>Well, I'd like to ask some questions of the printing intelligentsia
>that have been bothering me for some time.
>
>When I was in college, I was on the student newspaper and we ran our
>columns in 8 point by 11 and a half. That was the standard and we
>didn't question it, we just did it.
Assuming you mean "8 pt type, on 11-1/2 pt leading", that's _high_ for
the inter-line spacing. 1-1/2 to 2 pts is more typical. And book
work is typically done with 1 pt leading -- e.g. "8 on 9".
>
>It seemed a reasonable enough size to run things at and no one ever
>complained, to my knowledge.
>
>I'd personally be happy to read things at that size any day.
8 pt type is fairly small. For those who remember typewriters,
standard typewriter font is 12pt (pica), or "10 on 12" (elite).
8 pt type is fairly small. For those who remember typewriters,
standard typewriter font is 12pt (pica), or "10 on 12" (elite).
>Why is it then that, when I have the flu and am least able to tolerate
>directions on my medicine that are less than what I would call
>standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
>point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
>eye crazy?
Note: probably 6 pt. that's the "legal minimum" for contract 'fine print',
and many other things.
As for the "why" on medications -- it boils down to the _amount_ of
information that they are *legally* required to include, and the limits
of the space to do it in (imposed by the size of the packaging)>
>
>Is this a conspiracy of the young and healthy against the old and
>infirm? Do they package medicines intentionally with instructions
>written so small as to be indecipherable by anyone who is not a
>sharpshooter?
Sure seems that way, doesn't it? <wry grin>
>And, while I'm on this, does the tamper-proof packaging have to also
>be human-proof. Is the packaging created by twenty-something
>year-olds who have no clue as to what it means to be both visually and
>coordinationally impaired while under duress.
My pharmacy will package any prescription meds in 'non-child-proof'
packaging on request. Which I _always_ request. :)
For OTC stuff, I always repackage it, myself, immediately after purchase.
>I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
>to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
>am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
>packaging.
There *are* days when dynamite seems attractive.
FIRST to use on the package, _then_ on the package *designer*!
Years ago, I learned how to open those child-proof caps that even adults
have difficulty opening: as a kid to open them! Nothing keeps those little
fingers from getting into everything.
"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My friend (has arthritis in his hands) found the cure for those
> child-proof, plastic pill bottles that an adult can't open... Laid it
flat
> on the chopping board and whacked the top off with a meat cleaver....
Works
> every time ! (works best on those that have the cotton stuffed in them he
> said - picking up the scattered pills is a PIA)
>
> Bob S.
>
>
>
>
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >There've been some threads wandering around the Wreck lately about the
> >finer points of printing.
> >
> >Well, I'd like to ask some questions of the printing intelligentsia
> >that have been bothering me for some time.
> >
> >When I was in college, I was on the student newspaper and we ran our
> >columns in 8 point by 11 and a half. That was the standard and we
> >didn't question it, we just did it.
............... or do you mean 8 point type by 11 1/2 pica wide, a common
newspaper column width? I have a pica ruler on my desk at the moment. You
have to be specific on what you are talking about, printing works on ancient
measurements, although a lot are dropping off the wayside as the traditional
methods are replaced by automated methods.
>
> Assuming you mean "8 pt type, on 11-1/2 pt leading", that's _high_ for
> the inter-line spacing. 1-1/2 to 2 pts is more typical. And book
> work is typically done with 1 pt leading -- e.g. "8 on 9".
> >
> >It seemed a reasonable enough size to run things at and no one ever
> >complained, to my knowledge.
> >
> >I'd personally be happy to read things at that size any day.
>
> 8 pt type is fairly small. For those who remember typewriters,
> standard typewriter font is 12pt (pica), or "10 on 12" (elite).
>
> 8 pt type is fairly small. For those who remember typewriters,
> standard typewriter font is 12pt (pica), or "10 on 12" (elite).
>
> >Why is it then that, when I have the flu and am least able to tolerate
> >directions on my medicine that are less than what I would call
> >standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
> >point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
> >eye crazy?
>
> Note: probably 6 pt. that's the "legal minimum" for contract 'fine
print',
> and many other things.
>
>
> As for the "why" on medications -- it boils down to the _amount_ of
> information that they are *legally* required to include, and the limits
> of the space to do it in (imposed by the size of the packaging)>
>
>
> >
> >Is this a conspiracy of the young and healthy against the old and
> >infirm? Do they package medicines intentionally with instructions
> >written so small as to be indecipherable by anyone who is not a
> >sharpshooter?
>
> Sure seems that way, doesn't it? <wry grin>
>
>
> >And, while I'm on this, does the tamper-proof packaging have to also
> >be human-proof. Is the packaging created by twenty-something
> >year-olds who have no clue as to what it means to be both visually and
> >coordinationally impaired while under duress.
>
> My pharmacy will package any prescription meds in 'non-child-proof'
> packaging on request. Which I _always_ request. :)
>
> For OTC stuff, I always repackage it, myself, immediately after purchase.
>
> >I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
> >to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
> >am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
> >packaging.
>
> There *are* days when dynamite seems attractive.
>
> FIRST to use on the package, _then_ on the package *designer*!
>
>
My friend (has arthritis in his hands) found the cure for those
child-proof, plastic pill bottles that an adult can't open... Laid it flat
on the chopping board and whacked the top off with a meat cleaver.... Works
every time ! (works best on those that have the cotton stuffed in them he
said - picking up the scattered pills is a PIA)
Bob S.
Sat, Jan 24, 2004, 3:10pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Bob=A0S.) says:
My friend (has arthritis in his hands) found the cure for those
child-proof, plastic pill bottles that an adult can't open... <snip>
If you don't want to use your teeth to prize them open, I always
carry a pocket knife, and just slide the blade in the space below the
cap, and pop them open, no prob.
JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 24 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
i have been running printing presses for 21 years and the answer is this.
The lawyers make the manufacturers of the drugs put so much information into
every package of medication to cover there asses against lawsuits that if
the type were any bigger the size of the package would be to large. when
printing these things it is my job to proof read them there is not much
information that normal people could understand anyway.
ever wonder how they fold them so many times???
jimmy
mix ink with sawdust and I cant see my hands anymore.
tson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There've been some threads wandering around the Wreck lately about the
> finer points of printing.
>
> Well, I'd like to ask some questions of the printing intelligentsia
> that have been bothering me for some time.
>
> When I was in college, I was on the student newspaper and we ran our
> columns in 8 point by 11 and a half. That was the standard and we
> didn't question it, we just did it.
>
> It seemed a reasonable enough size to run things at and no one ever
> complained, to my knowledge.
>
> I'd personally be happy to read things at that size any day.
>
> Why is it then that, when I have the flu and am least able to tolerate
> directions on my medicine that are less than what I would call
> standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
> point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
> eye crazy?
>
> Is this a conspiracy of the young and healthy against the old and
> infirm? Do they package medicines intentionally with instructions
> written so small as to be indecipherable by anyone who is not a
> sharpshooter?
>
> And, while I'm on this, does the tamper-proof packaging have to also
> be human-proof. Is the packaging created by twenty-something
> year-olds who have no clue as to what it means to be both visually and
> coordinationally impaired while under duress.
>
> I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
> to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
> am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
> packaging.
>
> It's fuggin' ageism and I don't think they should let packaging
> engineers who are under fifty work on any of this stuff.
>
> That's it. I'm going to bed now.
>
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:06:59 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>There've been some threads wandering around the Wreck lately about the
>finer points of printing.
With or without soy ink?
-snip-
>I'd personally be happy to read things at that size any day.
(Yeah, boys and girls. He says that now that he has trifocals.)
>Why is it then that, when I have the flu and am least able to tolerate
>directions on my medicine that are less than what I would call
>standard size, that they are written in what I would guess to be 4
>point type and in a sans-serif font that would drive the healthiest
>eye crazy?
It wouldn't even be that large if the speaking weasels hadn't
made them put it on the box in the first place.
>Is this a conspiracy of the young and healthy against the old and
>infirm? Do they package medicines intentionally with instructions
>written so small as to be indecipherable by anyone who is not a
>sharpshooter?
Yes. Any more questions?
>And, while I'm on this, does the tamper-proof packaging have to also
>be human-proof. Is the packaging created by twenty-something
>year-olds who have no clue as to what it means to be both visually and
>coordinationally impaired while under duress.
>
>I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
>to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
>am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
>packaging.
Keep a pair of scissors in every room. They're handy for
opening those damnable packages. DAMHIKT
>It's fuggin' ageism and I don't think they should let packaging
>engineers who are under fifty work on any of this stuff.
>That's it. I'm going to bed now.
BTW, good work on the Nowrecki post.
Two corrections:
_They_ didn't excoriate the dufus, _we_ did.
"cord" is spelled "chord", even for The Defecators "music".
I found that the old cord (non musical, see?) from my old
shaver worked fine on the Technics turntable so I was able
to listen to Nick Danger the other night. Next out of the
old vinyl box is "A Child's Garden of Grass", one I haven't
heard in at least 25 years.
Carry on.
P.S: What number's on that Klownhammah?
------------------------------------------------------
No matter how hard you try, you cannot baptize a cat.
----------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
---------------------------------------------------
Larry Jaques writes:
>>I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
>>to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
>>am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
>>packaging.
>
>Keep a pair of scissors in every room. They're handy for
>opening those damnable packages. DAMHIKT
>
But if the scissors are new and packaged, keep a sharp knife in every room so
you can open the scissors.
Charlie Self
"Character is much easier kept than recovered." Thomas Paine
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Hell, I can't get the safety shrink-wrap from around the cap off without
cutting myself under the fingernails....
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Jaques writes:
>
> >>I've tried my best to rip open packaging that was, allegedly, intended
> >>to be friendly - only to find that I must get sharper objects than I
> >>am capable of dealing with - when ill - in order to break into the
> >>packaging.
> >
> >Keep a pair of scissors in every room. They're handy for
> >opening those damnable packages. DAMHIKT
> >
>
> But if the scissors are new and packaged, keep a sharp knife in every room
so
> you can open the scissors.
>
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:22:37 GMT, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have given up all the joyful vices of life, save one
> mahalo,
> jo4hn
>
so, jo4n.....
which one did you keep?
; ^ )
Bridger
That's why I keep my rigging knife on an 'arms length' lanyard . . . and on
the bedroom bureau when not in my pocket. Handy little thing - all SS, a 4
in blade, 'de-shackler', and a marlin spike. {Yes, I know . . . not a
*real* spike}
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> But if the scissors are new and packaged, keep a sharp knife in every room
so
> you can open the scissors.
>
Bridger wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:22:37 GMT, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I have given up all the joyful vices of life, save one
>> mahalo,
>> jo4hn
>>
>
> so, jo4n.....
>
> which one did you keep?
>
>
> ; ^ )
>
> Bridger
Siiiiiiggghhh. Wooddorking. Pathetic ain't it.
j4
> Put it in _checked_ baggage, if you do that. Such tools are allowed
> there. (that's how a travel with my Leatherman. :)
I didn't mention this in the original post, but in many airports the
difference between checked and unchecked luggage is measured in hours.
Besides that, many things never make it through at all.
Besides the U.S.A., I've been to Japan, Hong Kong, the Philippines, Yemen,
Spain, Germany, El Salvador, Cuba and Jamaica. If you want to ENSURE your
luggage makes it to the destination, carry it with you.
Knives can no longer make that certainty trip. :-(
-- Mark
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark Jerde <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ron Magen wrote:
>> That's why I keep my rigging knife on an 'arms length' lanyard . . .
>> and on the bedroom bureau when not in my pocket. Handy little thing -
>> all SS, a 4 in blade, 'de-shackler', and a marlin spike. {Yes, I
>> know . . . not a *real* spike}
>
>My Swiss Army knife went everywhere with me for 15 years -- before 9/11.
>"Everywhere" includes international airline travel to Europe and the Middle
>East. Can't carry it anymore. :-( Last week I was 1000 miles from home in
>a hotel room with something I needed to open and no tools. :-(
Put it in _checked_ baggage, if you do that. Such tools are allowed there.
(that's how a travel with my Leatherman. :)
Ron Magen wrote:
> That's why I keep my rigging knife on an 'arms length' lanyard . . .
> and on the bedroom bureau when not in my pocket. Handy little thing -
> all SS, a 4 in blade, 'de-shackler', and a marlin spike. {Yes, I
> know . . . not a *real* spike}
My Swiss Army knife went everywhere with me for 15 years -- before 9/11.
"Everywhere" includes international airline travel to Europe and the Middle
East. Can't carry it anymore. :-( Last week I was 1000 miles from home in
a hotel room with something I needed to open and no tools. :-(
-- Mark
In days of yore, I smoked a pipe. When I got tired of losing pipe tools
at $2 a pop, I discovered the joys of the 16d smooth box pipe tool, sold
by the pound. I rapidly discovered a multitude of uses for this little
jewel: blade (head) and phillips (pointy end) screw drivers, slicer
(pointy end again), tamper, gouger, prier, and binking tool. Now that I
have given up all the joyful vices of life, save one, I still carry one.
mahalo,
jo4hn