My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
whatever life it has left.
Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
better? It's made of redwood.
"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
> A couple of questions:
>
> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
Get a small can of denatured alcohol at the hardware store.
On the way home stop at Harbor Freight and get a box of latex surgical
gloves (About $5/box of 50 pairs) and depending on how big the patch
is some plumber's acid brushes and/or some 2" chip brushes.
Total cost, less than $10 with tax.
You will also want some throw away cups.
Mix up some epoxy, delute it about 5% with the alcohol and apply it to
the wood allowing it to soak into the wood.
Apply 2-3 coats as needed.
Wait about 2-4 hours, mix up some more epoxy and apply it to the wood
over the previous thinned epoxy.
Throw cups, brushes, gloves, etc in the trash, get a beer, and brag
about your accomplishments.
BTW, wear OLD shirt, no matter how careful you are, you will probably
get some on the shirt.
(Guys who regularly use epoxy buy a lot of clothes from the Salvation
Army store)
If you get any epoxy on your bare skin, strip down and get into the
shower as quickly as possible.
If you ever get sensitized to epoxy, you will wish you hadn't.
Have fun.
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Epoxy putty is different from epoxy resin.Epoxy resin CAN be thinned
> with alcohol or acetone but the ultimate strength can be
> compromised.
> Don't think you can thin epoxy putty very easily, but I could be
> wrong.
T-88 is listed as a structural adhesive on the SO-3 web site which as
you say makes it a different animal from laminating resin.
I've always used laminating resin as a "glue" or thickened with
micro-balloons as an "adhesive" with success, but then again,
different horses for different courses.
Lew
.
"Steve Turner" wrote:
> Well I wasn't so much talking about getting it off *me* as I was
> getting it off everything else, but apart from the T-88, every other
> brand I've used in the past (and the few I have lying around here
> right now) mention lacquer thinner and/or acetone for cleanup and
> it's always worked for me. Even from my skin(!), but I don't like
> to make a habit of that. I suspect those solvents might be worse
> for your skin than the epoxy itself, although acetone has been a
> common ingredient in finger nail polish remover for eons.
SFWIW, today most nail polish removers are NOT acetone based.
As far as getting any of the ketone solvents on your skin, it is
strongly suggested you don't, but as you say, small quantities
probably don't hurt.
As far as uncured epoxy is concerned, you build up a sensitivity to
the stuff over time, then you wake up one day with a skin rash and you
are done working with epoxy.
A $5 box of latex surgical gloves from Harbor Freight solves a lot of
problems when working with epoxy.
Lew
"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
> Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a
> small
> amount of alcohol?
Just a smell.
I just eyeball it, it's not critical, anything from 4%-6%.
Know the old joke about a dry martini?
How much vermouth in a dry martini?
Stand on the other side of the room and spell "vermouth" quietly<G>.
> To both sides, right?
Absolutely.
> How long between coats?
5 minutes maybe, you are simply trying to get the epoxy to penetrate
the and seal the wood and establish a base for the final coat.
Didn't understand this was a chair arm repair when I made previous
post.
With that info, I would wait maybe 15 minutes after last coat of
thinned epoxy, the apply finish coat and clamp pieces only enough to
hold pieces in position.
> I should be so lucky as to only get it on my shirt.
Old clothes RULE.
> Is this stuff more "toxic" than the 5-minute epoxies? I've used them
> many times, typically get a fair amount on my hands, and never had a
> reaction.
NO but being exposed to epoxy is cumulative.
One day you wake up and are sensitized.
BTW, wrap your clamp pads with some waxed paper or plastic so the pads
so they won't leave any marks on the wood.
Have fun.
Lew
"Steve Turner" wrote:
> I wasn't going to say anything because Lew appears to know more
> about epoxy than most other humans, but I didn't think the alcohol
> thing was going to work. System Three T-88 appears to be a bit of a
> different animal relative to most other epoxies. The "clean up with
> white vinegar" thing puzzled me right away; nothing short of lacquer
> thinner or acetone would touch most of the other brands I've used.
Have no direct experience with T-88; however, have used several
thousand pounds of S-3 laminating resin.
From the sounds of it, appears T-88 is loaded with some type of
filler(s) which would mean getting the alcohol absorbed into the mix
may require a lot of elbow grease.
As far as clean up is concerned, nothing short of stripping down and
taking as cold a shower as you can tolerate has ever worked for me.
Solvents such as lacquer thinner, acetone, white vinegar, etc, never
worked very well for me.
A scrub brush with Boraxo and cold water gets off the heavy stuff
until you hit the shower.
Lew
Contacted S-3 tech support and asked about T-88 for this application.
Took a couple of e-mails to get everybody on sasme page, but we got
there.
Below is the e-mail exchange with tech support for those who are
interested.
Lew
=======================================================
To: System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
www.systemthree.com
From: Lew Hodgett
Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:04 AM
RE: T-88
Can you thin T-88 with denatured alcohol (5% max) to aid in
penetration of say old wood?
Lew
=========================================================
From: "Technical Support"
www.systemthree.com
Monday, September 21, 2009
To: "Lew Hodgett"
You can thin T-88 with lacquer thinner for coating. But, it is a
lousy
product for this because the viscosity is too high and the molecule is
too big.
A far better product is Clear Coat epoxy.
=========================================================
From: Lew Hodgett
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:48 PM
To: System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
www.systemthree.com
Maybe I didn't make myself clear.
This is a structrual application on an old redwood lawn chair.
Simply wanted to reduce the viscosity of T-88 for the inital coat to
improve penetration of the wood fibers, then follow up with full
strength T-88 to complete the broken joint repair.
Good or bad idea?
Lew
=========================================================
From: "Technical Support"
www.systemthree.com
Monday, September 21, 2009
To: "Lew Hodgett"
Date: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:01 PM
We think that doing what you suggest is not necessary.
If you do it you'll have to wait at least three to four days for all
the
solvent to evaporate.
Then you'll have to sand the remaining epoxy.
Tests that we've done over the years show that almost no matter
what technique you use the wood breaks before the epoxy.
If you like apply a coat of T-88, wait a couple of hours and then
apply more and close the joint this will approximate what you
propose without all the time and work.
=========================================================
"Steve Turner" wrote:
> Everybody's suggesting epoxy, but wouldn't this be a good candidate
> for Titebond III?
When it comes to repairs, quality epoxy is in a class by itself, if
for no other reason than it's ability to fill gaps and provide
strength in the process.
Again, for outdoor repairs, epoxy is in a class by itself.
Note the emphasis on "REPAIRS".
Lew
I think just yellow glue would be insufficient as it is not outdoor nor
waterproof.
- shear strength is needed in the repair that the glue may not be able to
provide.
I would suggest epoxy, as it is waterproof, and can give the strength
needed.
Depending on the break, consider adding a spline or biscuit to ensure shear
strength is added back.
This might make a nearly invisible repair.
The son who built the chair, may have a recommendation. He may even still
have the pattern and be able to produce a new arm.
"Prof Wonmug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
> sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
> it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>
> Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
> the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
> whatever life it has left.
>
> Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
> better? It's made of redwood.
>
"Steve Turner" wrote:
> I've been using epoxy for probably half your life (a *long* time -
> LOL) so I'm no stranger to it, but given the condition of the chair
> and how much life is probably left in it I just think Titebond III
> would be a no-brainer. There are just so many variables with epoxy;
> viscosity, fillers, mixing ratios, curing times, special solvents
> required for cleanup, etc. (not to mention that the good shit is
> *expensive*). And dried-out redwood is going to *drink* that stuff
> if it's too runny and/or slow curing; the joint will be weak if that
> happens. And if it's me, I'm sure as hell going to get little drops
> of epoxy all over the place; on my fingers, on the workpiece,
> fingerprints on the workpiece... Just give me some Titebond III and
> a couple of clamps and I'm done.
I probably have left more epoxy unused in the bottom of the bucket
than a 1,000 repairs like this would use.
The point being that since I buy epoxy in 500 pound drums (55 gal), I
get a very good price on the stuff so can't really comment on the
retail price of epoxy; however, epoxy pricing is very much quantity
sensitive.
Prices in the $60-$90 for a gallon kit are not uncommon.
As far as the viscosity issue is concerned, anything above 60F on the
low end and out of direct sunlight on the high end works for me.
As far as proper mixing is concerned, throw away plastic cups (1OZ
thru 4OZ) insure accurate mixing.
A 30 lb bag of micro-balloons is about $25 which will last most people
at least two lifetimes.
Unless you want to develop contact dermatitis, you WILL use disposable
latex gloves which leave no fingerprints<G>.
DAMHIKT.
If you need long open times, epoxy and a SLOW hardener will give you
30 minutes with out pushing it.
TiteBond II is less than half that, can't comment on T/B III.
Guess the message is that like anything else, if you follow the known
epoxy mixing and handling rules, the rewards are worth it.
T/BIII doesn't show me it it worth the shelf space in my shop, but
then I'm prejudiced.
Lew
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:42:44 -0500, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Prof Wonmug wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:12:17 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
>>> better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
>>> Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
>>> anything better for a repair either
>>
>> OK. The T-88 just arrived. I couldn't find it in anuy local stores, so
>> I ordered it online.
>
>A very good epoxy, and probably well suited to this job because it's a
>bit thicker than some and won't soak into the wood like water. It also
>cures in a reasonable amount of time.
>
>> A couple of questions:
>>
>> The wood is very VERY dry. It was never finished or sealed in any way.
>> It's been sitting in the sun for 4-5 years. The entire chair weighs
>> next to nothing.
>>
>> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
>
>NO. This is epoxy, not polyurethane glue.
I thought I read somewhere that dampening the surfaces a bit will keep
very dry wood from soaking up too much of the glue (expoy) leaving a
starved joint.
>> If so, how much and how long beforehand?
>>
>> Any other preparation? The surfaces are clean and (very) dry.
>
>You mean like sanding or the like? You could, but I doubt it would make
>a lot of difference.
I think sanding would make things worse. It was a clean break along
the grain. The arm received a shearing force and the wood split
lengthwise. I am planning on fitting the pieces together. I already
tested it without any glue and they fit almost perfectly.
>I would brush an initial coat on both surfaces and
>let it soak in for a while (10 minutes or so; if memory serves, T-88
>takes a good half hour or more to start getting thick), and brush on
>more if the wood drinks it up; you don't want the mating surfaces
>starved of glue.
The instructions say to let it sit for 30 minutes on wood. If there
are any dry spots, apply more.
>I still think the Titebond III would have been the
>easier choice, but I think you'll be fine.
I heard you, but I've used Titebond before, so this was a chance to
get some experience with a high-end epoxy. I've only used the
quick-set epoxies before.
>> I was planning on using a cheap brush to apply the epoxy. Any better
>> suggestions?
>
>Nope, that'll do it.
>
>> Thanks
>>
>> PS: The bottle says to wear rubber gloves. Is that necessary for one
>> little patch?
>
>Your call; I probably wouldn't. As I recall, the cleanup solvent for
>this epoxy is white vinegar, so I would have some of that handy.
Yes, it says to use white vinegar.
If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
anything better for a repair either... or you could show your love you
really care for her and buy a new chair from me ;^) www.sonomaproducts.com.
End of season sale!
On Sep 8, 4:49=A0pm, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:30:23 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Prof Wonmug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
> >> sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
> >> it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>
> >> Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
> >> the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
> >> whatever life it has left.
>
> >> Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
> >> better? It's made of redwood.
>
> >Yellow glue will work for a while. =A0You would be better off with a cle=
ar
> >epoxy glue.
>
> Any particular variety or brand? 1-minute? 5-minute? 1 ton? 5 ton? Is
> there one that's better for wood.
>
> I've worked with yellow glue for a long time and have a feel for how
> to use it. I always seem to have a few problems with epoxy -- and I
> seem to always get it all over myself. It's like those plastic peanuts
> that literally fly out of the box and arrange themselves all over me.
> Still, not as bad as crazy glue, which I am convinced is named for the
> users, not the glue itself.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Steve Turner" wrote:
> I've done that many times; practically every chair repair I've ever
> done I've resorted to complete (or near complete) disassembly. It's
> like a slippery slope with me; I can't stand loose joints in a
> chair. I'd much rather take it all apart and do it right than
> attempt some kind of glue injection approach, and having it all
> apart makes it easy to make patterns for fresh new builds.
I have a question.
Unless you really have a love affair with the chair, wouldn't you be
farther ahead if:
A) You purchased new chairs?
B) Built news chairs using a plan with a better design or at least
better suited to your usage?
Just curious.
Lew
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It's amazing how many friends and relatives can come out of the
> woodwork when they've heard you have the ability to fix old furniture.
> I've probably rebuilt a dozen or more old chairs that used to belong to
> Aunt Edith or next door neighbor Bart's grandpappy.
Yeah, but the news spreads when there's a local woodworker that can fix
chairs (and fix them properly). That takes a particularly uncommon skill or
at least most people think so.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:22:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I do have one more question.
>>
>> While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every
>> joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as
>> trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to reinforce
>> them.
>>
>> The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space. I'm
>> thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it does
>> eventually give way.
>>
>> I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage as
>> it happens.
>>
>> Comments?
> Dissassemble completey and use as pattern to make new parts over the
> winter. If there is a real "attachment" to the old one you could
> repair the holes while it is apart and re-assemble it along with the
> new one (or 2, or 3, or)
I've done that many times; practically every chair repair I've ever done
I've resorted to complete (or near complete) disassembly. It's like a
slippery slope with me; I can't stand loose joints in a chair. I'd much
rather take it all apart and do it right than attempt some kind of glue
injection approach, and having it all apart makes it easy to make
patterns for fresh new builds.
--
If it ain't perfect, improve it...
But don't break it while you're fixin' it!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Steve Turner" wrote:
>
>> I've done that many times; practically every chair repair I've ever
>> done I've resorted to complete (or near complete) disassembly. It's
>> like a slippery slope with me; I can't stand loose joints in a
>> chair. I'd much rather take it all apart and do it right than
>> attempt some kind of glue injection approach, and having it all
>> apart makes it easy to make patterns for fresh new builds.
>
> I have a question.
>
> Unless you really have a love affair with the chair, wouldn't you be
> farther ahead if:
>
> A) You purchased new chairs?
Not at the mass-produced quality level typically seen these days.
> B) Built news chairs using a plan with a better design or at least
> better suited to your usage?
>
> Just curious.
These have all been antique chairs with fairly decent design, but with
the old hide-glue joints that just can't stand up to the rigors of time.
It's amazing how many friends and relatives can come out of the
woodwork when they've heard you have the ability to fix old furniture.
I've probably rebuilt a dozen or more old chairs that used to belong to
Aunt Edith or next door neighbor Bart's grandpappy.
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:22:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
>I do have one more question.
>
>While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every
>joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as
>trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to reinforce
>them.
>
>The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space. I'm
>thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it does
>eventually give way.
>
>I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage as
>it happens.
>
>Comments?
Dissassemble completey and use as pattern to make new parts over the
winter. If there is a real "attachment" to the old one you could
repair the holes while it is apart and re-assemble it along with the
new one (or 2, or 3, or)
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
-----------------------------------------------
Gorilla glue has some great advertising and a catchy name but every
real test I have seen ALWAYS puts it at the bottom of the list in
every category.
-------------------------------------------------
Very much over priced and under peckered IMHO.
Lew
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:14:03 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> A couple of questions:
>>
>> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
>
>Get a small can of denatured alcohol at the hardware store.
Denatured alcohol is just ethyl alcohol with some stuff added to make
undrinkable, right?
I have a bottle of rubbing alcohol. It says it's 70% ethyl alcohol.
The inactive ingredients are acetone, denatonium benzoate, methyl
isobutyl ketone, and water. Can I use it to dilute the epoxy?
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:19:45 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> Any particular variety or brand? 1-minute? 5-minute? 1 ton? 5 ton?
>> Is
>> there one that's better for wood.
>
>Stay away from the quick (1-5 minute) stuff.
>
>If you are anywhere near a West Marine store they will have West
>System in all kind of kits which will include mixing sticks, mixing
>cups, gloves, etc.
>
>May be a little pricey, but it's "One Stop Shopping" and probably
>every clerk in there has done some epoxy repair of some kind.
>
>Have fun.
>
>Lew
Yep, there's one about 20-30 minutes away. But with my history with
epoxy, wouldn't I be in mortal danger with a marine epoxy? I'd hate to
get my mast stuck to the wrong thing...
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:30:23 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
>> sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
>> it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>>
>> Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
>> the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
>> whatever life it has left.
>>
>> Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
>> better? It's made of redwood.
>>
>Yellow glue will work for a while. You would be better off with a clear
>epoxy glue.
Any particular variety or brand? 1-minute? 5-minute? 1 ton? 5 ton? Is
there one that's better for wood.
I've worked with yellow glue for a long time and have a feel for how
to use it. I always seem to have a few problems with epoxy -- and I
seem to always get it all over myself. It's like those plastic peanuts
that literally fly out of the box and arrange themselves all over me.
Still, not as bad as crazy glue, which I am convinced is named for the
users, not the glue itself.
"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>I do have one more question.
>
> While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every
> joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as
> trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to
> reinforce
> them.
>
> The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space.
> I'm
> thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it
> does
> eventually give way.
>
> I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage
> as
> it happens.
You indicated that this chair is held together with fasteners.
One approach would be to get #10-#12 coarse threaded pan head
stainless steel self tapping sheet metal screws and replace old
fasteners one for one.
Self tapping sheet metal screws do well in soft woods like redwood.
YMMV
Lew
I do have one more question.
While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every
joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as
trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to reinforce
them.
The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space. I'm
thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it does
eventually give way.
I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage as
it happens.
Comments?
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:45:36 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Contacted S-3 tech support and asked about T-88 for this application.
>
>Took a couple of e-mails to get everybody on sasme page, but we got
>there.
>
>Below is the e-mail exchange with tech support for those who are
>interested.
>
>Lew
>=======================================================
>To: System Three Resins, Inc.
> Technical Support
> www.systemthree.com
>
>From: Lew Hodgett
>Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:04 AM
>
>RE: T-88
>
>Can you thin T-88 with denatured alcohol (5% max) to aid in
>penetration of say old wood?
>
>Lew
>=========================================================
>From: "Technical Support"
> www.systemthree.com
> Monday, September 21, 2009
>
>To: "Lew Hodgett"
>
>You can thin T-88 with lacquer thinner for coating. But, it is a
>lousy
>product for this because the viscosity is too high and the molecule is
>too big.
>
>A far better product is Clear Coat epoxy.
>=========================================================
>From: Lew Hodgett
>Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:48 PM
>
>To: System Three Resins, Inc.
> Technical Support
> www.systemthree.com
>
>Maybe I didn't make myself clear.
>
>This is a structrual application on an old redwood lawn chair.
>
>Simply wanted to reduce the viscosity of T-88 for the inital coat to
>improve penetration of the wood fibers, then follow up with full
>strength T-88 to complete the broken joint repair.
>
>Good or bad idea?
>
>Lew
>=========================================================
>From: "Technical Support"
> www.systemthree.com
> Monday, September 21, 2009
>
>To: "Lew Hodgett"
>Date: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:01 PM
>
>We think that doing what you suggest is not necessary.
>
>If you do it you'll have to wait at least three to four days for all
>the
>solvent to evaporate.
>
>Then you'll have to sand the remaining epoxy.
>
>Tests that we've done over the years show that almost no matter
>what technique you use the wood breaks before the epoxy.
>
>If you like apply a coat of T-88, wait a couple of hours and then
>apply more and close the joint this will approximate what you
>propose without all the time and work.
>=========================================================
Interesting exchange. Thanks for going to the trouble to check it out
and post back.
It looks like I did almost exactly what they suggested, albeit without
knowing what I was doing. I *tried* to dilute it with alcohol. When
that failed, I just applied it anyway, waited about an hour, and
applied it full strength.
Gorilla glue has some great advertising and a catchy name but every
real test I have seen ALWAYS puts it at the bottom of the list in
every category. Poly glues are probably OK and better than yellow glue
for this application. I would say it depends on the break. Glue might
not be the best answer in any case, it might need a splint or to scab
in a piece, etc.
On Sep 8, 5:41=A0pm, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:12:17 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
> >better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
> >Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
> >anything better for a repair either... or you could show your love you
> >really care for her and buy a new chair from me ;^)www.sonomaproducts.co=
m.
> >End of season sale!
>
> Livermore? Well, shucks, you're just up the road a piece. 'course,
> right now, you're a mite hard to get to with the Bay Bridge shut down.
> ;-) Maybe we'll stop on by and take a gander.
>
> I called around and no one carries T-88. What about Gorilla Glue?
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:30:50 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a
>> small
>> amount of alcohol?
>
>Just a smell.
>
>I just eyeball it, it's not critical, anything from 4%-6%.
>
>Know the old joke about a dry martini?
>
>How much vermouth in a dry martini?
>
>Stand on the other side of the room and spell "vermouth" quietly<G>.
>
>> To both sides, right?
>
>Absolutely.
>
>> How long between coats?
>
>5 minutes maybe, you are simply trying to get the epoxy to penetrate
>the and seal the wood and establish a base for the final coat.
>
>Didn't understand this was a chair arm repair when I made previous
>post.
>
>With that info, I would wait maybe 15 minutes after last coat of
>thinned epoxy, the apply finish coat and clamp pieces only enough to
>hold pieces in position.
Yep, that's what the instructions say. Do not clamp too hard.
>> I should be so lucky as to only get it on my shirt.
>
>Old clothes RULE.
>
>> Is this stuff more "toxic" than the 5-minute epoxies? I've used them
>> many times, typically get a fair amount on my hands, and never had a
>> reaction.
>
>NO but being exposed to epoxy is cumulative.
>
>One day you wake up and are sensitized.
I didn't know that. Thanks. I'll get some gloves.
>BTW, wrap your clamp pads with some waxed paper or plastic so the pads
>so they won't leave any marks on the wood.
>
>Have fun.
>
>Lew
>
>
"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
> Any particular variety or brand? 1-minute? 5-minute? 1 ton? 5 ton?
> Is
> there one that's better for wood.
Stay away from the quick (1-5 minute) stuff.
If you are anywhere near a West Marine store they will have West
System in all kind of kits which will include mixing sticks, mixing
cups, gloves, etc.
May be a little pricey, but it's "One Stop Shopping" and probably
every clerk in there has done some epoxy repair of some kind.
Have fun.
Lew
"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
> Yep, there's one about 20-30 minutes away. But with my history with
> epoxy, wouldn't I be in mortal danger with a marine epoxy? I'd hate
> to
> get my mast stuck to the wrong thing...
I know it sounds crazy, but..................
READ THE DIRECTIONS FIRST.
BTW, you have all variety of epoxy retaiklers in the Bay area.
You are not limited to W/M.
Have fun.
Lew
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:49:12 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:
> Any particular variety or brand? 1-minute? 5-minute? 1 ton? 5 ton? Is
> there one that's better for wood.
>
> I've worked with yellow glue for a long time and have a feel for how to
> use it. I always seem to have a few problems with epoxy -- and I seem to
> always get it all over myself.
While epoxy may be the best solution, if you're hesitant to use it I
think you'd do fine with Titebond III. Unless you're storing the chair
underwater :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
It's funny... I have to agree - Gorilla Glue is awful stuff. Everytime
I've used it, I've been disapointed. However, Gorilla Tape - now that
stuff is incredible. Never found anything close. Wonder why they suck
at making glue, but excel with tape?
On Sep 9, 12:25=A0am, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Gorilla glue has some great advertising and a catchy name but every
> real test I have seen ALWAYS puts it at the bottom of the list in
> every category. Poly glues are probably OK and better than yellow glue
> for this application. I would say it depends on the break. Glue might
> not be the best answer in any case, it might need a splint or to scab
> in a piece, etc.
I get a bit on me now and then but do usually wear gloves. The
instructions are pretty clear they don't want you getting it on your
skin so I assume it has some level of toxicity. If you have some
gloves available, I would use them.
I usually mix up some in a dixie cup or bowl. I let it thicken for 10
minutes or so then slather it on pretty thick. I usually use a trimmed
flux brush but I am doing little areas. I don't think you can go wrong
with this stuff. Doing a pre-glue or "sizing" as some suggest is
probably a great idea if you are gluing any end grain, good for yellow
glue also, but I wouldn't think it is necessary on face gluing no
matter how dry. This stuff is thick.
On Sep 17, 10:47=A0pm, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:14:03 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
> >> A couple of questions:
>
> >> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
>
> >Get a small can of denatured alcohol at the hardware store.
>
> >On the way home stop at Harbor Freight and get a box of latex surgical
> >gloves (About $5/box of 50 pairs) and depending on how big the patch
> >is some plumber's acid brushes and/or some 2" chip brushes.
>
> >Total cost, less than $10 with tax.
>
> >You will also want some throw away cups.
>
> >Mix up some epoxy, delute it about 5% with the alcohol and apply it to
> >the wood allowing it to soak into the wood.
>
> Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a small
> amount of alcohol?
>
> >Apply 2-3 coats as needed.
>
> To both sides, right?
>
> How long between coats?
>
> >Wait about 2-4 hours, mix up some more epoxy and apply it to the wood
> >over the previous thinned epoxy.
>
> >Throw cups, brushes, gloves, etc in the trash, get a beer, and brag
> >about your accomplishments.
>
> >BTW, wear OLD shirt, no matter how careful you are, you will probably
> >get some on the shirt.
>
> I should be so lucky as to only get it on my shirt.
>
> >(Guys who regularly use epoxy buy a lot of clothes from the Salvation
> >Army store)
>
> >If you get any epoxy on your bare skin, strip down and get into the
> >shower as quickly as possible.
>
> Is this stuff more "toxic" than the 5-minute epoxies? I've used them
> many times, typically get a fair amount on my hands, and never had a
> reaction.
>
>
>
> >If you ever get sensitized to epoxy, you will wish you hadn't.
>
> >Have fun.
>
> >Lew- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is it really that difficult to keep your hands off of your mast for an
entire 30 minutes cure time?
On Sep 8, 5:55=A0pm, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:19:45 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
> >> Any particular variety or brand? 1-minute? 5-minute? 1 ton? 5 ton?
> >> Is
> >> there one that's better for wood.
>
> >Stay away from the quick (1-5 minute) stuff.
>
> >If you are anywhere near a West Marine store they will have West
> >System in all kind of kits which will include mixing sticks, mixing
> >cups, gloves, etc.
>
> >May be a little pricey, but it's "One Stop Shopping" and probably
> >every clerk in there has done some epoxy repair of some kind.
>
> >Have fun.
>
> >Lew
>
> Yep, there's one about 20-30 minutes away. But with my history with
> epoxy, wouldn't I be in mortal danger with a marine epoxy? I'd hate to
> get my mast stuck to the wrong thing...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:12:17 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
>better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
>Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
>anything better for a repair either... or you could show your love you
>really care for her and buy a new chair from me ;^) www.sonomaproducts.com.
>End of season sale!
Livermore? Well, shucks, you're just up the road a piece. 'course,
right now, you're a mite hard to get to with the Bay Bridge shut down.
;-) Maybe we'll stop on by and take a gander.
I called around and no one carries T-88. What about Gorilla Glue?
"Prof Wonmug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
> sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
> it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>
> Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
> the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
> whatever life it has left.
>
> Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
> better? It's made of redwood.
>
Yellow glue will work for a while. You would be better off with a clear
epoxy glue.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:17:42 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I get a bit on me now and then but do usually wear gloves. The
>instructions are pretty clear they don't want you getting it on your
>skin so I assume it has some level of toxicity. If you have some
>gloves available, I would use them.
>
>I usually mix up some in a dixie cup or bowl. I let it thicken for 10
>minutes or so then slather it on pretty thick. I usually use a trimmed
>flux brush but I am doing little areas. I don't think you can go wrong
>with this stuff. Doing a pre-glue or "sizing" as some suggest is
>probably a great idea if you are gluing any end grain, good for yellow
>glue also, but I wouldn't think it is necessary on face gluing no
>matter how dry. This stuff is thick.
Well, the job is done. Overall, I think I did about an average job.
There was one small end-grain joint. The pre-gluing was probably a
good idea there. It soaked up the glue very quickly. Unfortunately,
there was no way to clamp that joint, so I just tapped it with a
hammer to get the old screw to seat and placed a couple of bricks to
hold it down. Apparently, when I clamped the other end, I must have
torqued the whole chair. Today, I discovered that it had dried with a
gap of about .3". Even so, it's solid. I guess with the pre-gluing,
there was enough there to span that gao in several places and this is
a structural epoxy.
The other end where is split lengthwise is very solid. It's a bit
discolored where I tried to wipe off the excess. I think the
pre-gluing resulting is there being too much glue in the joint. I only
clamped to touch, but quite a bit squirted out.
Anyway, thanks for the help. I think that is not the strongest part of
the chair.
As I was working on the break, I noticed that the whole chair is
wobbly. It was put together with screws and plugs, but no glue. Now
the wood has dried out and pulled away from the screws. What would you
say to me injecting some epoxy into the loose joints?
One big plus -- no epoxy on me or my clothes. That's a first.
Prof Wonmug wrote:
> My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
> sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
> it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>
> Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
> the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
> whatever life it has left.
>
> Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
> better? It's made of redwood.
Everybody's suggesting epoxy, but wouldn't this be a good candidate for
Titebond III? I've used it on some exterior repairs and so far it's
been bulletproof...
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Steve Turner" wrote:
>
>> Everybody's suggesting epoxy, but wouldn't this be a good candidate
>> for Titebond III?
>
> When it comes to repairs, quality epoxy is in a class by itself, if
> for no other reason than it's ability to fill gaps and provide
> strength in the process.
>
> Again, for outdoor repairs, epoxy is in a class by itself.
>
> Note the emphasis on "REPAIRS".
>
> Lew
I've been using epoxy for probably half your life (a *long* time - LOL)
so I'm no stranger to it, but given the condition of the chair and how
much life is probably left in it I just think Titebond III would be a
no-brainer. There are just so many variables with epoxy; viscosity,
fillers, mixing ratios, curing times, special solvents required for
cleanup, etc. (not to mention that the good shit is *expensive*). And
dried-out redwood is going to *drink* that stuff if it's too runny
and/or slow curing; the joint will be weak if that happens. And if it's
me, I'm sure as hell going to get little drops of epoxy all over the
place; on my fingers, on the workpiece, fingerprints on the workpiece...
Just give me some Titebond III and a couple of clamps and I'm done.
Sorry Lew. :-)
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Prof Wonmug wrote:
> My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
> sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
> it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>
> Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
> the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
> whatever life it has left.
>
> Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
> better? It's made of redwood.
I presume you mean that he split a piece off of one of the arms?
Personally I'd get out my old can of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue. The
stuff's hard to find nowadays and you have to buy a pound of it for ten
bucks or so (that pound will likely last you the rest of your life) but it's
good stuff. As for durability, it's FAA approved for structural use on
production aircraft. Epoxy has all the glamor these days but the old
workhorse is cheap and good. Do read the label though and use it exactly as
directed.
Another alternative, find the nearest Woodcraft and see what they've
got--they should have T88 epoxy in a 1.6 ounce syringe for 20 bucks or
so--that should do the job nicely.
Or Titebond III--it's not going to be immersed and there should be enough
irregularity in the split to serve as a key and prevent creep.
Prof Wonmug wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:12:17 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
>> better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
>> Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
>> anything better for a repair either
>
> OK. The T-88 just arrived. I couldn't find it in anuy local stores, so
> I ordered it online.
A very good epoxy, and probably well suited to this job because it's a
bit thicker than some and won't soak into the wood like water. It also
cures in a reasonable amount of time.
> A couple of questions:
>
> The wood is very VERY dry. It was never finished or sealed in any way.
> It's been sitting in the sun for 4-5 years. The entire chair weighs
> next to nothing.
>
> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
NO. This is epoxy, not polyurethane glue.
> If so, how much and how long beforehand?
>
> Any other preparation? The surfaces are clean and (very) dry.
You mean like sanding or the like? You could, but I doubt it would make
a lot of difference. I would brush an initial coat on both surfaces and
let it soak in for a while (10 minutes or so; if memory serves, T-88
takes a good half hour or more to start getting thick), and brush on
more if the wood drinks it up; you don't want the mating surfaces
starved of glue. I still think the Titebond III would have been the
easier choice, but I think you'll be fine.
> I was planning on using a cheap brush to apply the epoxy. Any better
> suggestions?
Nope, that'll do it.
> Thanks
>
> PS: The bottle says to wear rubber gloves. Is that necessary for one
> little patch?
Your call; I probably wouldn't. As I recall, the cleanup solvent for
this epoxy is white vinegar, so I would have some of that handy.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> A couple of questions:
>>
>> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
>
> Get a small can of denatured alcohol at the hardware store.
>
> On the way home stop at Harbor Freight and get a box of latex surgical
> gloves (About $5/box of 50 pairs) and depending on how big the patch is
> some plumber's acid brushes and/or some 2" chip brushes.
I used a pair of those on my last epoxy job. They really helped make the
task
a breeze--especially when wiping off the excess.
> BTW, wear OLD shirt, no matter how careful you are, you will probably get
> some on the shirt.
>
> (Guys who regularly use epoxy buy a lot of clothes from the Salvation Army
> store)
I recently stopped in at Goodwill to buy more pants for yard work.
Turned out they had one pair that fit me but they are nicer than the pants
I usually wear, and like new. So I still need to buy more pants for yard
work... ;)
Bill
Prof Wonmug wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:30:50 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>>
>>> Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a
>>> small
>>> amount of alcohol?
>> Just a smell.
>>
>> I just eyeball it, it's not critical, anything from 4%-6%.
>
> I put two ribbons of epoxy in a dish, mixed a bit, and added a splash
> of denatured alcohol. As far as I could tell, this did not affect the
> epoxy mixture at all. It was just as thick as before.
>
> I applied one coat to the two pieces. as far as I could tell, it did
> not penetrate at all. It certainly did not disappear.
>
> Now, I am reluctant to apply 2-3 coats of fear of getting too much
> build-up and losing the nice fit from the clean (ragged) break.
>
> I think I'll just apply it full strength and clamp.
I wasn't going to say anything because Lew appears to know more about
epoxy than most other humans, but I didn't think the alcohol thing was
going to work. System Three T-88 appears to be a bit of a different
animal relative to most other epoxies. The "clean up with white
vinegar" thing puzzled me right away; nothing short of lacquer thinner
or acetone would touch most of the other brands I've used.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Steve Turner" wrote:
>
>> I wasn't going to say anything because Lew appears to know more
>> about epoxy than most other humans, but I didn't think the alcohol
>> thing was going to work. System Three T-88 appears to be a bit of a
>> different animal relative to most other epoxies. The "clean up with
>> white vinegar" thing puzzled me right away; nothing short of lacquer
>> thinner or acetone would touch most of the other brands I've used.
>
> Have no direct experience with T-88; however, have used several
> thousand pounds of S-3 laminating resin.
>
> From the sounds of it, appears T-88 is loaded with some type of
> filler(s) which would mean getting the alcohol absorbed into the mix
> may require a lot of elbow grease.
I wouldn't expect any solvent that was meant to thin any given resin to
require *any* elbow grease, filler or no; I would expect it to melt
right in. I figure if it ain't gonna dissolve the resin then you
shouldn't use it, and it wouldn't surprise me if the mixture wound up
coagulating.
> As far as clean up is concerned, nothing short of stripping down and
> taking as cold a shower as you can tolerate has ever worked for me.
>
> Solvents such as lacquer thinner, acetone, white vinegar, etc, never
> worked very well for me.
>
> A scrub brush with Boraxo and cold water gets off the heavy stuff
> until you hit the shower.
>
> Lew
Well I wasn't so much talking about getting it off *me* as I was getting
it off everything else, but apart from the T-88, every other brand I've
used in the past (and the few I have lying around here right now)
mention lacquer thinner and/or acetone for cleanup and it's always
worked for me. Even from my skin(!), but I don't like to make a habit
of that. I suspect those solvents might be worse for your skin than the
epoxy itself, although acetone has been a common ingredient in finger
nail polish remover for eons.
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Steve Turner" wrote:
>
>> Well I wasn't so much talking about getting it off *me* as I was
>> getting it off everything else, but apart from the T-88, every other
>> brand I've used in the past (and the few I have lying around here
>> right now) mention lacquer thinner and/or acetone for cleanup and
>> it's always worked for me. Even from my skin(!), but I don't like
>> to make a habit of that. I suspect those solvents might be worse
>> for your skin than the epoxy itself, although acetone has been a
>> common ingredient in finger nail polish remover for eons.
>
> SFWIW, today most nail polish removers are NOT acetone based.
Perhaps, but I live in a house with a wife and four daughters. There
are like 17 bottles of the crap around here (two of them brand new) and
they all have acetone as the primary ingredient.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Steve Turner" wrote
>> Perhaps, but I live in a house with a wife and four daughters. There are
>> like 17 bottles of the crap around here (two of them brand new) and they
>> all have acetone as the primary ingredient.
>>
> LOL Do you need to take an anti estrogen? LOL
You got that right - it's called run out to the shop and hide! :-)
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:08:03 -0700, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:30:50 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>>
>>> Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a
>>> small
>>> amount of alcohol?
>>
>>Just a smell.
>>
>>I just eyeball it, it's not critical, anything from 4%-6%.
>
>I put two ribbons of epoxy in a dish, mixed a bit, and added a splash
>of denatured alcohol. As far as I could tell, this did not affect the
>epoxy mixture at all. It was just as thick as before.
>
>I applied one coat to the two pieces. as far as I could tell, it did
>not penetrate at all. It certainly did not disappear.
>
>Now, I am reluctant to apply 2-3 coats of fear of getting too much
>build-up and losing the nice fit from the clean (ragged) break.
>
>I think I'll just apply it full strength and clamp.
Epoxy putty is different from epoxy resin.Epoxy resin CAN be thinned
with alcohol or acetone but the ultimate strength can be compromised.
Don't think you can thin epoxy putty very easily, but I could be
wrong.
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:27:56 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> I have a bottle of rubbing alcohol. It says it's 70% ethyl alcohol.
>
>Leave that crap in the medicine cabinet.
Crap? Have you tried it with a little OJ or a beer chaser?
The problem with "good epoxy" is that it doesn't come in mini usage
packaging.
There are a number of brands ... West System, Cold Cure, System Three, East
System , MAS....
I agree that you should not use the 5 minute syringe" type.
Given your admissions, If you are near any Marinas or boat repair / boat
builder - they work with epoxy all the time, and might be worth the call,
or wait until the bridge is back in operation and have Sonomaproducts look
at it.
"Prof Wonmug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:12:17 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
>>better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
>>Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
>>anything better for a repair either... or you could show your love you
>>really care for her and buy a new chair from me ;^)
>>www.sonomaproducts.com.
>>End of season sale!
>
> Livermore? Well, shucks, you're just up the road a piece. 'course,
> right now, you're a mite hard to get to with the Bay Bridge shut down.
> ;-) Maybe we'll stop on by and take a gander.
>
> I called around and no one carries T-88. What about Gorilla Glue?
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:12:17 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you can really select anything on the planet then you couldn't do
>better than System Three brand T-88 epoxy. This is what I use on my
>Adirondack chairs in construction and I don't think you could find
>anything better for a repair either
OK. The T-88 just arrived. I couldn't find it in anuy local stores, so
I ordered it online.
A couple of questions:
The wood is very VERY dry. It was never finished or sealed in any way.
It's been sitting in the sun for 4-5 years. The entire chair weighs
next to nothing.
Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
If so, how much and how long beforehand?
Any other preparation? The surfaces are clean and (very) dry.
I was planning on using a cheap brush to apply the epoxy. Any better
suggestions?
Thanks
PS: The bottle says to wear rubber gloves. Is that necessary for one
little patch?
Prof Wonmug" wrote:
> It is held together with standard wood screws, countersunk, and
> plugged. I would have to drill out the plugs, remove the screws
> (that
> part would be easy, I imagine), reattach with the new screws, and
> then
> make new plugs. That sounds like a lot of work.
Depends on how much the chair means to you/yours.
Lew
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:46:53 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>>I do have one more question.
>>
>> While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every
>> joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as
>> trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to
>> reinforce
>> them.
>>
>> The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space.
>> I'm
>> thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it
>> does
>> eventually give way.
>>
>> I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage
>> as
>> it happens.
>
>You indicated that this chair is held together with fasteners.
>
>One approach would be to get #10-#12 coarse threaded pan head
>stainless steel self tapping sheet metal screws and replace old
>fasteners one for one.
>
>Self tapping sheet metal screws do well in soft woods like redwood.
It is held together with standard wood screws, countersunk, and
plugged. I would have to drill out the plugs, remove the screws (that
part would be easy, I imagine), reattach with the new screws, and then
make new plugs. That sounds like a lot of work.
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:25:11 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>>
>>> A couple of questions:
>>>
>>> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
>>
>> Get a small can of denatured alcohol at the hardware store.
>>
>> On the way home stop at Harbor Freight and get a box of latex surgical
>> gloves (About $5/box of 50 pairs) and depending on how big the patch is
>> some plumber's acid brushes and/or some 2" chip brushes.
>
>I used a pair of those on my last epoxy job. They really helped make the
>task
>a breeze--especially when wiping off the excess.
>
>
>
>> BTW, wear OLD shirt, no matter how careful you are, you will probably get
>> some on the shirt.
>>
>> (Guys who regularly use epoxy buy a lot of clothes from the Salvation Army
>> store)
>
>I recently stopped in at Goodwill to buy more pants for yard work.
>Turned out they had one pair that fit me but they are nicer than the pants
>I usually wear, and like new. So I still need to buy more pants for yard
>work... ;)
Reminds me of the joke about the guy who couldn't afford to send his
shirts to the cleaners, so he donated them to the Goodwill, then went
in and bought them back for 25 cents after they cleaned them. ;-)
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:29:32 -0700, Prof Wonmug <[email protected]> wrote:
>My wife has an Adirondack chair her son made for her. It's been
>sitting in the back yard for years. I tried to get her to let me paint
>it or at least seal it, but she wanted it to weather.
>
>Well, not it's broken. A clumbsy relative fell on it and broke one of
>the arms. It's a very clean break. I want to glue it back together for
>whatever life it has left.
>
>Is yellow glue as good as it gets for this or it there something
>better? It's made of redwood.
Use carpenters "waterproof" wood glue. Titebond or Elmers. I have
two redwood Adirondack chairs, going on their 16th year. I use a
clear "Flood" product, goes on milky and dries clear. (The
instructions say it dires in 24 hours, but it remains sticky for a
week.) You can bring back the red color if you clean it.
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:14:03 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> A couple of questions:
>>
>> Should I dampen the surfaces before applying t6he T-88?
>
>Get a small can of denatured alcohol at the hardware store.
>
>On the way home stop at Harbor Freight and get a box of latex surgical
>gloves (About $5/box of 50 pairs) and depending on how big the patch
>is some plumber's acid brushes and/or some 2" chip brushes.
>
>Total cost, less than $10 with tax.
>
>You will also want some throw away cups.
>
>Mix up some epoxy, delute it about 5% with the alcohol and apply it to
>the wood allowing it to soak into the wood.
Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a small
amount of alcohol?
>Apply 2-3 coats as needed.
To both sides, right?
How long between coats?
>Wait about 2-4 hours, mix up some more epoxy and apply it to the wood
>over the previous thinned epoxy.
>
>Throw cups, brushes, gloves, etc in the trash, get a beer, and brag
>about your accomplishments.
>
>BTW, wear OLD shirt, no matter how careful you are, you will probably
>get some on the shirt.
I should be so lucky as to only get it on my shirt.
>(Guys who regularly use epoxy buy a lot of clothes from the Salvation
>Army store)
>
>If you get any epoxy on your bare skin, strip down and get into the
>shower as quickly as possible.
Is this stuff more "toxic" than the 5-minute epoxies? I've used them
many times, typically get a fair amount on my hands, and never had a
reaction.
>If you ever get sensitized to epoxy, you will wish you hadn't.
>
>Have fun.
>
>Lew
>
>
>
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:43:56 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Steve Turner" wrote:
>
>> I've done that many times; practically every chair repair I've ever
>> done I've resorted to complete (or near complete) disassembly. It's
>> like a slippery slope with me; I can't stand loose joints in a
>> chair. I'd much rather take it all apart and do it right than
>> attempt some kind of glue injection approach, and having it all
>> apart makes it easy to make patterns for fresh new builds.
>
>I have a question.
>
>Unless you really have a love affair with the chair, wouldn't you be
>farther ahead if:
>
>A) You purchased new chairs?
I offered to buy her a new chair. She wants that one because her son
made it for her.
>B) Built news chairs using a plan with a better design or at least
>better suited to your usage?
See answer to (a).
>Just curious.
>
>Lew
I'm looking for the easiest way to prolong the life a little.
If I get some spare time (unlikely), I might just take it all apart
and reassemble it.
What's the best way to open joints that are loose but not falling
apart? Just wait until they do fall apart?
Prof Wonmug wrote:
> I called around and no one carries T-88. What about Gorilla Glue?
Awful! Use epoxy, any epoxy.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:30:50 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Prof Wonmug" wrote:
>
>> Is that 1 oart alcohol to 19 parts epoxy? In other words, just a
>> small
>> amount of alcohol?
>
>Just a smell.
>
>I just eyeball it, it's not critical, anything from 4%-6%.
I put two ribbons of epoxy in a dish, mixed a bit, and added a splash
of denatured alcohol. As far as I could tell, this did not affect the
epoxy mixture at all. It was just as thick as before.
I applied one coat to the two pieces. as far as I could tell, it did
not penetrate at all. It certainly did not disappear.
Now, I am reluctant to apply 2-3 coats of fear of getting too much
build-up and losing the nice fit from the clean (ragged) break.
I think I'll just apply it full strength and clamp.
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:01:54 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> It's amazing how many friends and relatives can come out of the
>> woodwork when they've heard you have the ability to fix old furniture.
>> I've probably rebuilt a dozen or more old chairs that used to belong to
>> Aunt Edith or next door neighbor Bart's grandpappy.
>
>Yeah, but the news spreads when there's a local woodworker that can fix
>chairs (and fix them properly). That takes a particularly uncommon skill or
>at least most people think so.
>
You should see what the old guy across the road can do with a trashed
chair!!! He's redone qite a few for friends and neighbours that are
now better than new - with all kinds af parts replaced, repaired, and
remanufactured. It's a real art!!!
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:01:54 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> It's amazing how many friends and relatives can come out of the
>>> woodwork when they've heard you have the ability to fix old furniture.
>>> I've probably rebuilt a dozen or more old chairs that used to belong to
>>> Aunt Edith or next door neighbor Bart's grandpappy.
>> Yeah, but the news spreads when there's a local woodworker that can fix
>> chairs (and fix them properly). That takes a particularly uncommon skill or
>> at least most people think so.
>>
> You should see what the old guy across the road can do with a trashed
> chair!!! He's redone qite a few for friends and neighbours that are
> now better than new - with all kinds af parts replaced, repaired, and
> remanufactured. It's a real art!!!
Here's some info on the chair I just finished:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/3945385446/
At the risk of pissing off the Antiques Road Show gods, I decided to
forgo any attempts to retain the original black "japanning" on all the
steel and cast iron parts in the seat support mechanism (this thing has
dual tilt springs with cast iron receivers, and a height adjustment
mechanism with a 1-1/8" lead-screw!). I ran all the metal parts through
the sandblast cabinet, then applied a black oxide finish (similar to gun
metal bluing) available from Caswell Plating
(http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/index.html).
Apart from the regular disassembly and re-gluing of all the old
hide-glue joints, I had to "rebuild" the dovetails on the ends of the
legs, re-cutting the shoulders to add a bit of depth and gluing shim
stock to the faces to add thickness, all so the legs would once again
fit tightly into the cast iron receiver. I also had to reinstall new
seat caning, which I'd never done before, and I highly recommend this
site: http://www.seatweaving.org/ for supplies and instructions if you
ever have to do the same.
A fun project all in all, and my friend was quite happy to get his
favorite old chair back. I understand I now have an endless supply of
free beer any time I want to go over and shoot the breeze! :-)
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Matt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The problem with "good epoxy" is that it doesn't come in mini usage
> packaging.
> There are a number of brands ... West System, Cold Cure, System Three,
> East System , MAS....
>
> I agree that you should not use the 5 minute syringe" type.
>
> Given your admissions, If you are near any Marinas or boat repair / boat
> builder - they work with epoxy all the time, and might be worth the call,
> or wait until the bridge is back in operation and have Sonomaproducts look
> at it.
IIRC "the bridge" was back in action for rush hour traffic this morning.
At least the news indicated that.