Charlie Self

In article <[email protected]>, Bob Schmall
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Please welcome him home.

Glad you're out of hospital, Charlie. Them places is full of sick
people!

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: <http://www.balderstone.ca>
The other site, with ww links<http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

Patriarch wrote:
> "Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > ...is now home after spending 10 days and $40,000 of his insurance
> > company's money while in hospital. His description of the ordeal is
> > not pretty.
> >
> > Please welcome him home.
> >
>
> If it was only $40k, he must not have been very sick!
>
> Get well, Charlie! Enjoy being home. Don't be in too big of a hurry
to
> get back to the rat race.
>
> Patriarch

VA prices to Medicare. The joys of aging. You do NOT want to know the
cost of a single cardiac intensive care day. Great care, but if you're
paying for it, you're probably better off dead. There is something
seriously out of whack with the system.

Greetings and Salutations....

On 2 May 2005 08:31:23 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Patriarch wrote:
>> "Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > ...is now home after spending 10 days and $40,000 of his insurance
>> > company's money while in hospital. His description of the ordeal is
>> > not pretty.
>> >
>> > Please welcome him home.
>> >
>>
>> If it was only $40k, he must not have been very sick!
>>
>> Get well, Charlie! Enjoy being home. Don't be in too big of a hurry
>to
>> get back to the rat race.
>>
>> Patriarch
>
>VA prices to Medicare. The joys of aging. You do NOT want to know the
>cost of a single cardiac intensive care day. Great care, but if you're
>paying for it, you're probably better off dead. There is something
>seriously out of whack with the system.
>
First off, glad to see that you are on the road to recovery!
Good luck and with luck, you will avoid major problems for a LONG
time!
As for the system being out of whack...a big thumbs up to
that. There is something obscene about America, one of the richest
countries in the world, having a health care system that is so
expensive that a vast majority of its citizens cannot afford to
get care from it.
Alas, it is a complicated problem. One factor is that
health care became a profit center some years ago...and in ANY
business, when that happens, the focus shifts from providing
the service or goods to minimizing costs and maximizing the
amount of money pumped to the investors.
One factor is the legal system. While I am not entirely sure
that malpractice awards ARE the huge burden that some would have us
believe, there are those costs.
Another factor is the fact that the average American seems to
believe that (a) All medical procedures have to return them to
perfection and (b) it's someone else's fault. This creates the
demands for lawyers and the suits filed in the courts.
This leads to the huge costs of malpractice insurance
for the medical profession. WHen the insurance companies became
"for profit" organizations, they, too, ceased to perform their
true function - of spreading the risk around through a huge
population, thereby ensuring that no one would be wiped
out by a catastrophic illness or accident - and became
money pumps for investors. So...they crank up the costs of
insurance to the point that they can be assured that they not
only do not suffer any pains on the rare times that they
end up having to pay something out, but, they actively work
to avoid paying out claims by finding ways to void that coverage
or to minimize the amount they DO have to pay out. Look at the
profit figures published by the companies. "Profit" for an insurance
company means cash that they have NOT paid out to help folks get
over accidents, get medicines, etc, but, HAVE paid to investors,
whose only problem is that they are only making $0.10/share, instead
of $0.50/share.
Ok...I will stop ranting now...and go back to my original
theme of wishing Charlie a speedy and complete recovery, so we can
continue to enjoy his valuable contributions to the group...
Regards
Dave Mundt

Dave Mundt wrote:
snip of rant
> Ok...I will stop ranting now...and go back to my original
> theme of wishing Charlie a speedy and complete recovery, so we can
> continue to enjoy his valuable contributions to the group...

You've forgotten a huge one in this area. Free medical care for
any and all. As long as they aren't from the US or working for a
living. We have piles of people flown in from all over the world
with their med hx and the cab fare to the hospital. Or the ones
who come to visit every time the want free drugs and hot & cold
running nurses.
/rant off

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

"lgb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > Health care - no matter what form it took, has always been a "profit
> > center". Even the family doctor of old who holds such an emotional
place in
> > our imaginations, was in it for the profit. Profit all by iteslf is not
> > contrary to good health care.
> >
> Being old enough to remember family doctors making house calls, and
> hanging quarantine signs, I disput the profit motive. I'm sure there
> were some thus motivated, but I personally knew one who practiced where
> payment was in corn, chickens, and the occasional crumpled dollar. And
> several who opted for low incomes by practicing in rural and small city
> areas and setting their prices to what people could afford.
>
> >
> > Insurance companies have *always* been a for profit venture. They did
this
> > by spreading risk, but it has always been for the purpose of profit and
not
> > for any other reason.
> >
>
> Also not true. The first insurance companies were cooperative ventures
> of "spreading the risk" among merchants. They were protecting their
> profits, but the "company" per se made no profits.
>

Indeed, the "Blues," which began as the insurer of last resort are a
not-for-profit outfit here in MI. They tried to change it, but got whacked
soundly.

OTOH, hospitals which are not-for-profit have a way of expanding endlessly
into new markets and growing in equipment in order to spend the money that
would otherwise show as "profit," and cause them to get whacked.

On 2 May 2005 08:31:23 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>There is something seriously out of whack with the system.

Yup. Politicians.

jmac

Charlie Self wrote:
> Patriarch wrote:
>
>>"Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>>...is now home after spending 10 days and $40,000 of his insurance
>>>company's money while in hospital. His description of the ordeal is
>>>not pretty.
>>>
>>>Please welcome him home.
>>>
>>
>>If it was only $40k, he must not have been very sick!
>>
>>Get well, Charlie! Enjoy being home. Don't be in too big of a hurry
>
> to
>
>>get back to the rat race.
>>
>>Patriarch
>
>
> VA prices to Medicare. The joys of aging. You do NOT want to know the
> cost of a single cardiac intensive care day. Great care, but if you're
> paying for it, you're probably better off dead. There is something
> seriously out of whack with the system.
>

I think that current health care keeps you alive,
it justs makes you wish you were dead!

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Health care - no matter what form it took, has always been a "profit
> center". Even the family doctor of old who holds such an emotional place in
> our imaginations, was in it for the profit. Profit all by iteslf is not
> contrary to good health care.
>
Being old enough to remember family doctors making house calls, and
hanging quarantine signs, I disput the profit motive. I'm sure there
were some thus motivated, but I personally knew one who practiced where
payment was in corn, chickens, and the occasional crumpled dollar. And
several who opted for low incomes by practicing in rural and small city
areas and setting their prices to what people could afford.

>
> Insurance companies have *always* been a for profit venture. They did this
> by spreading risk, but it has always been for the purpose of profit and not
> for any other reason.
>

Also not true. The first insurance companies were cooperative ventures
of "spreading the risk" among merchants. They were protecting their
profits, but the "company" per se made no profits.

>
> Alas - the fundamental principle of profit. Not so different from what
> everyone with a 401K expects from the companies that their money is invested
> in.
>
I've always felt that profiting from the misfortunes of others had to be
at least slightly immoral. A doctor making a decent living is one
thing, a giant corporation milking the ailing is another.

And BTW, get well Charlie!

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

"Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> ...is now home after spending 10 days and $40,000 of his insurance
> company's money while in hospital. His description of the ordeal is
> not pretty.
>
> Please welcome him home.
>

Charlie,

Best wishes for a speedy recovery! Hope to see you posting again soon.

Regards,

JT

"Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> ...is now home after spending 10 days and $40,000 of his insurance
> company's money while in hospital. His description of the ordeal is
> not pretty.
>
> Please welcome him home.
>

If it was only $40k, he must not have been very sick!

Get well, Charlie! Enjoy being home. Don't be in too big of a hurry to
get back to the rat race.

Patriarch

"Dave Mundt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Alas, it is a complicated problem. One factor is that
> health care became a profit center some years ago...and in ANY
> business, when that happens, the focus shifts from providing
> the service or goods to minimizing costs and maximizing the
> amount of money pumped to the investors.

Health care - no matter what form it took, has always been a "profit
center". Even the family doctor of old who holds such an emotional place in
our imaginations, was in it for the profit. Profit all by iteslf is not
contrary to good health care.

> One factor is the legal system. While I am not entirely sure
> that malpractice awards ARE the huge burden that some would have us
> believe, there are those costs.

I would be inclined to agree that malpractice is not the problem the health
care industry would have us believe. Certainly, there is some problem
within that industry which the industry should be held accountable to and
for which significant awards have been made, but like you, I question what
percentage of the take this really represents.

> Another factor is the fact that the average American seems to
> believe that (a) All medical procedures have to return them to
> perfection and (b) it's someone else's fault. This creates the
> demands for lawyers and the suits filed in the courts.

Not so sure I agree with this point at all.

> This leads to the huge costs of malpractice insurance
> for the medical profession. WHen the insurance companies became
> "for profit" organizations, they, too, ceased to perform their
> true function - of spreading the risk around through a huge
> population, thereby ensuring that no one would be wiped
> out by a catastrophic illness or accident - and became
> money pumps for investors.

Insurance companies have *always* been a for profit venture. They did this
by spreading risk, but it has always been for the purpose of profit and not
for any other reason.

> So...they crank up the costs of
> insurance to the point that they can be assured that they not
> only do not suffer any pains on the rare times that they
> end up having to pay something out, but, they actively work
> to avoid paying out claims by finding ways to void that coverage
> or to minimize the amount they DO have to pay out. Look at the
> profit figures published by the companies. "Profit" for an insurance
> company means cash that they have NOT paid out to help folks get
> over accidents, get medicines, etc, but, HAVE paid to investors,
> whose only problem is that they are only making $0.10/share, instead
> of $0.50/share.

Alas - the fundamental principle of profit. Not so different from what
everyone with a 401K expects from the companies that their money is invested
in.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...is now home after spending 10 days and $40,000 of his insurance company's
> money while in hospital. His description of the ordeal is not pretty.
>
> Please welcome him home.

Welcome home, Charlie. Stay away from the Stella and frites, eh?