Oak end table drawer - wooden slides and M&T questions (Long)

Looks like Dave will be buying a shoulder plane soon !
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1) Every drawer I've made I've used full extension slides. Now I want
> to make an end table with a single drawer; all wood. If I have oak on
> hand, do I make a single center runner (and btw, HOW?? :) ) or do you
> use two runners, or runners on the side, from oak? I also have maple,
> but the table will be oak. In other words, how do YOU make a drawer
> slide with all wood components?
>
> This is going to be a country styled oak end table with a drawer near
> the top, and I'm leaning towards, but not committed to, a full width
> shelf near the floor. Thinking about tapered legs, which I suppose I'd
> have to start by gluing up 5/4 or 6/4 material to make the legs thick
> enough. At what point do you make hollow legs (not that I'd imagine
> that would be the case for the size I'm gonna make)?
>
> 2) I saw a picture of fluted legs that are taped only near the floor,
> starting about six inches up. The flutes taper off to a point, like I
> had asked about a while back. Still can't quite envision how to bring
> the flute to a sharp point while routing it. If I use a router table to
> flute, do I just practice at lifting the leg up near the end of the cut,
> and set a reference mark, so that all 3 flutes have the same ending
> contour. Seems like that would be hard to pull off with uniformity, so
> I'm expecting someone has a better way.
>
> 3) I think I'm going to finally make mortise and tenons. (MAJOR
> CRINGING! I have the mortising attachment for the DP, which should work
> in oak, I hope.) Mortise first, and then make the tenon fit it,
> correct? What level of smoothness does a decent M&T have to have for a
> long lasting joint? I can't imagine that the mortising attachment is
> gonna leave the walls of the mortise all that smooth. I've only gone
> general purpose chisel for now. Do I just got at it with sandpaper or
> do I need to buy more tools (aaargh! I can't get something new every
week!)
>
> I don't have a tenoning attachment for the TS, but could rig up
> something, albeit kludgy to run a board thru vertically. Is using a BS
> not a good way to do it? I have one blade that gives a reasonably
> smooth cut; a 3/16 Pro olsen 10 TPI, raker set. Should I just use the
> TS for ALL the tenon cuts? I'm expecting that if it's all done on the
> TS, I won't need to smooth the surface, but to make a tiny adjustment,
> do you sand or what? My new smoother is the only plane I've got. Or
> would I be better off milling this on the router table, using a 1/2
> straight double flute bit. I could make precise depth changes to the
> bit for a very precise fit. Would you use or TS or router?
>
> Please tell me I can accomplish these tasks without buying more stuff!
> :) Eventually I'll get a bunch of chisels, and perhaps a tenon jig for
> the TS. But for now, is this doable with a BS, TS, router table, and no
> Neander tools but one basic chisel and a smoother.
>
> How do you set up a router to do a deep, carefully positioned mortise,
> without buying the Leigh jig, or other expensive jig? Like I said, I
> have a router table, but I also have a 2 1/4 HP handheld router.
>
>
> dave
>

There are quite a few ways to make drawers. A traditional and common way is
to make the drawer the same size as the opening, then sand or plane the
sides and top for a slip fit. With a slip fit, there is little side play
and the drawer doesn't droop much as it is pulled out. There are also
numerous ways to build a drawer with runners. You just have to choose which
one you like. Personally, I like a dovetailed drawer with a slip fit and
flush fitting front.

For an end table, which is a smaller piece of furniture, I would think you
could get some proportional legs from 8/4 material.

For the mortise and tenon, I have a dedicated Powermatic mortiser and Delta
tenoning jig for the tablesaw. I have used those for quite a few mortise
and tenons. Just recently, I needed to do some through mortises with wedged
tenons. The mortises had rounded ends instead of being squared off.
Borrowing from jigs in "Chairmaking and Design", by Jeff Miller, I built my
own jigs for doing mortises and tenons. Boy, I wish I had tried this a long
time ago. With the jigs, it is really easy to make straight and compound
angle mortises and tenons. Of course, for the tenons, you have to cut the
shoulders on the ends with something like a bandsaw and then file the ends
round to fit the mortise, but after a few of them, you get pretty fast at
it. And, you need a plunge router with a spiral upcut bit. The mortise is
much simpler if you buy the bit the same diameter as the width of the
mortise.

Preston

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1) Every drawer I've made I've used full extension slides. Now I want
> to make an end table with a single drawer; all wood. If I have oak on
> hand, do I make a single center runner (and btw, HOW?? :) ) or do you
> use two runners, or runners on the side, from oak? I also have maple,
> but the table will be oak. In other words, how do YOU make a drawer
> slide with all wood components?
>
> This is going to be a country styled oak end table with a drawer near
> the top, and I'm leaning towards, but not committed to, a full width
> shelf near the floor. Thinking about tapered legs, which I suppose I'd
> have to start by gluing up 5/4 or 6/4 material to make the legs thick
> enough. At what point do you make hollow legs (not that I'd imagine
> that would be the case for the size I'm gonna make)?
>
> 2) I saw a picture of fluted legs that are taped only near the floor,
> starting about six inches up. The flutes taper off to a point, like I
> had asked about a while back. Still can't quite envision how to bring
> the flute to a sharp point while routing it. If I use a router table to
> flute, do I just practice at lifting the leg up near the end of the cut,
> and set a reference mark, so that all 3 flutes have the same ending
> contour. Seems like that would be hard to pull off with uniformity, so
> I'm expecting someone has a better way.
>
> 3) I think I'm going to finally make mortise and tenons. (MAJOR
> CRINGING! I have the mortising attachment for the DP, which should work
> in oak, I hope.) Mortise first, and then make the tenon fit it,
> correct? What level of smoothness does a decent M&T have to have for a
> long lasting joint? I can't imagine that the mortising attachment is
> gonna leave the walls of the mortise all that smooth. I've only gone
> general purpose chisel for now. Do I just got at it with sandpaper or
> do I need to buy more tools (aaargh! I can't get something new every
week!)
>
> I don't have a tenoning attachment for the TS, but could rig up
> something, albeit kludgy to run a board thru vertically. Is using a BS
> not a good way to do it? I have one blade that gives a reasonably
> smooth cut; a 3/16 Pro olsen 10 TPI, raker set. Should I just use the
> TS for ALL the tenon cuts? I'm expecting that if it's all done on the
> TS, I won't need to smooth the surface, but to make a tiny adjustment,
> do you sand or what? My new smoother is the only plane I've got. Or
> would I be better off milling this on the router table, using a 1/2
> straight double flute bit. I could make precise depth changes to the
> bit for a very precise fit. Would you use or TS or router?
>
> Please tell me I can accomplish these tasks without buying more stuff!
> :) Eventually I'll get a bunch of chisels, and perhaps a tenon jig for
> the TS. But for now, is this doable with a BS, TS, router table, and no
> Neander tools but one basic chisel and a smoother.
>
> How do you set up a router to do a deep, carefully positioned mortise,
> without buying the Leigh jig, or other expensive jig? Like I said, I
> have a router table, but I also have a 2 1/4 HP handheld router.
>
>
> dave
>

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Here's a bunch of question because I'm a flaming idiot...

Buy a book, read a magazine, DAGS, does everyone always have to tell
you how to do anything. You must be great in the sack. "Yes Honey,
go in, now pull back out, but not too far, ok, back in again"

Sheesh, what a moron.

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> and just what is a newsgroup for, Richard? NOT answering questions?

I guess it's only for answering your questions as reflected in these
pearls of wisdom from you:

--------------------------------------
From: Bay Area Dave ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Is there any way to apply Varathane and get a smoth
finish?


did you try a google search for "apply varathane". there's over 500
hits

-------------------------------------
From: Bay Area Dave ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Newbie has question on TS blades


try a google search. nobody is going to help you if you don't
even attempt to help yourself

dave

I made the Frank Klausz jig for slip joints that rides the rip fence
that I use for cutting tenons.

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:24:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>I don't have a tenoning attachment for the TS, but could rig up
>>>something, albeit kludgy to run a board thru vertically.

a real great way to decide on drawer glides of wood ( mechanical metal
ones are a sin... no skill needed ! ) is to go to an antique store or
antique show and bring a pad, pencil and a digital camera if you can.
handmade furniture is as old as time and drawers and such have been
figured out way back when... there are only so many choices... the
best method i've ever come across is a hardwood dovetailed tongue idea
down the center of the underside of the drawer.

the dovetail is fitted to the underside of the drawer while the
dovetailed plow piece is fitted to the frame. the drawer has
virtually no side to side wobble with such an arrangement. you'll
need a router with a sharp bit to create such, of course.


as for the rest of your questions... i recommend you do some reading
and viewing of conventional furniture joinery. avoid the cheaply made
furniture cuz you wont get a realistic idea of good old fashioned
lasts forever joinery like you would if you could view the joinery on
say victorian furniture.

the junk made today wont last the 125 years victorian furniture has
lasted.

glue... the 2 best wood glues i've used so far are ' Gorilla Glue '
and polyurathane glue. both these glues are waterproof, they expand
with the furniture... never becoming brittle as with waterbased glue
and their big plus is that they expand as they dry filling up a space
4 times their size. waterbased glue shrinks on drying. on an 1/8 inch
oak veneer piece poly glue comes right out the pores onto the face.
it sands off perfectly.

since you've invested time and money into woodworking it pays to do as
much reading and seeing and touching about the trade as you can.








On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:06:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>1) Every drawer I've made I've used full extension slides. Now I want
>to make an end table with a single drawer; all wood. If I have oak on
>hand, do I make a single center runner (and btw, HOW?? :) ) or do you
>use two runners, or runners on the side, from oak? I also have maple,
>but the table will be oak. In other words, how do YOU make a drawer
>slide with all wood components?
>
>This is going to be a country styled oak end table with a drawer near
>the top, and I'm leaning towards, but not committed to, a full width
>shelf near the floor. Thinking about tapered legs, which I suppose I'd
>have to start by gluing up 5/4 or 6/4 material to make the legs thick
>enough. At what point do you make hollow legs (not that I'd imagine
>that would be the case for the size I'm gonna make)?
>
>2) I saw a picture of fluted legs that are taped only near the floor,
>starting about six inches up. The flutes taper off to a point, like I
>had asked about a while back. Still can't quite envision how to bring
>the flute to a sharp point while routing it. If I use a router table to
>flute, do I just practice at lifting the leg up near the end of the cut,
>and set a reference mark, so that all 3 flutes have the same ending
>contour. Seems like that would be hard to pull off with uniformity, so
>I'm expecting someone has a better way.
>
>3) I think I'm going to finally make mortise and tenons. (MAJOR
>CRINGING! I have the mortising attachment for the DP, which should work
>in oak, I hope.) Mortise first, and then make the tenon fit it,
>correct? What level of smoothness does a decent M&T have to have for a
>long lasting joint? I can't imagine that the mortising attachment is
>gonna leave the walls of the mortise all that smooth. I've only gone
>general purpose chisel for now. Do I just got at it with sandpaper or
>do I need to buy more tools (aaargh! I can't get something new every week!)
>
>I don't have a tenoning attachment for the TS, but could rig up
>something, albeit kludgy to run a board thru vertically. Is using a BS
>not a good way to do it? I have one blade that gives a reasonably
>smooth cut; a 3/16 Pro olsen 10 TPI, raker set. Should I just use the
>TS for ALL the tenon cuts? I'm expecting that if it's all done on the
>TS, I won't need to smooth the surface, but to make a tiny adjustment,
>do you sand or what? My new smoother is the only plane I've got. Or
>would I be better off milling this on the router table, using a 1/2
>straight double flute bit. I could make precise depth changes to the
>bit for a very precise fit. Would you use or TS or router?
>
>Please tell me I can accomplish these tasks without buying more stuff!
>:) Eventually I'll get a bunch of chisels, and perhaps a tenon jig for
>the TS. But for now, is this doable with a BS, TS, router table, and no
>Neander tools but one basic chisel and a smoother.
>
>How do you set up a router to do a deep, carefully positioned mortise,
>without buying the Leigh jig, or other expensive jig? Like I said, I
>have a router table, but I also have a 2 1/4 HP handheld router.
>
>
>dave

and just what is a newsgroup for, Richard? NOT answering questions? Why
bother to read the posts? could it be that YOU are the moron, for
attempting to stop me from posting? Give it up! you are pathetic. Do
you get stressed when you can't contol others? That's a typical
response in someone with low self esteem and anxiety disorder. Seek
treatment!

dave

Rich wrote:

> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Here's a bunch of question because I'm a flaming idiot...
>
>
> Buy a book, read a magazine, DAGS, does everyone always have to tell
> you how to do anything. You must be great in the sack. "Yes Honey,
> go in, now pull back out, but not too far, ok, back in again"
>
> Sheesh, what a moron.

Thanks, Preston. I've got some questions about your technique, which
sound like a method I'd seriously consider: the slip fit drawer. Rather
than the typical drawer for say a kitchen with the 1/4 bottom resting in
a groove about a 1/2 inch up from the bottom of the sides, would a slip
fit drawer have a solid wood bottom and be assembled in a different
fashion? The dovetails I can do, as I've got an Incra for 1/2 blind and
thru dovetails, but I'm guess that the types of drawers I've made so far
for my desk and shop aren't the right type for this application. Could
you clarify how the drawer is put together? What about under the
drawer? Just two pieces of solid wood at each edge, extending underneath
about 2 - 3 inches, or what?

Secondly, would you be able to post some pictures of your jigs or point
me to a source for something similar? Too bad the Leigh jig with
accessories runs around a grand...


dave

Preston Andreas wrote:

> There are quite a few ways to make drawers. A traditional and common way is
> to make the drawer the same size as the opening, then sand or plane the
> sides and top for a slip fit. With a slip fit, there is little side play
> and the drawer doesn't droop much as it is pulled out. There are also
> numerous ways to build a drawer with runners. You just have to choose which
> one you like. Personally, I like a dovetailed drawer with a slip fit and
> flush fitting front.
>
> For an end table, which is a smaller piece of furniture, I would think you
> could get some proportional legs from 8/4 material.
>
> For the mortise and tenon, I have a dedicated Powermatic mortiser and Delta
> tenoning jig for the tablesaw. I have used those for quite a few mortise
> and tenons. Just recently, I needed to do some through mortises with wedged
> tenons. The mortises had rounded ends instead of being squared off.
> Borrowing from jigs in "Chairmaking and Design", by Jeff Miller, I built my
> own jigs for doing mortises and tenons. Boy, I wish I had tried this a long
> time ago. With the jigs, it is really easy to make straight and compound
> angle mortises and tenons. Of course, for the tenons, you have to cut the
> shoulders on the ends with something like a bandsaw and then file the ends
> round to fit the mortise, but after a few of them, you get pretty fast at
> it. And, you need a plunge router with a spiral upcut bit. The mortise is
> much simpler if you buy the bit the same diameter as the width of the
> mortise.
>
> Preston
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>1) Every drawer I've made I've used full extension slides. Now I want
>>to make an end table with a single drawer; all wood. If I have oak on
>>hand, do I make a single center runner (and btw, HOW?? :) ) or do you
>>use two runners, or runners on the side, from oak? I also have maple,
>>but the table will be oak. In other words, how do YOU make a drawer
>>slide with all wood components?
>>
>>This is going to be a country styled oak end table with a drawer near
>>the top, and I'm leaning towards, but not committed to, a full width
>>shelf near the floor. Thinking about tapered legs, which I suppose I'd
>>have to start by gluing up 5/4 or 6/4 material to make the legs thick
>>enough. At what point do you make hollow legs (not that I'd imagine
>>that would be the case for the size I'm gonna make)?
>>
>>2) I saw a picture of fluted legs that are taped only near the floor,
>>starting about six inches up. The flutes taper off to a point, like I
>>had asked about a while back. Still can't quite envision how to bring
>>the flute to a sharp point while routing it. If I use a router table to
>>flute, do I just practice at lifting the leg up near the end of the cut,
>>and set a reference mark, so that all 3 flutes have the same ending
>>contour. Seems like that would be hard to pull off with uniformity, so
>>I'm expecting someone has a better way.
>>
>>3) I think I'm going to finally make mortise and tenons. (MAJOR
>>CRINGING! I have the mortising attachment for the DP, which should work
>>in oak, I hope.) Mortise first, and then make the tenon fit it,
>>correct? What level of smoothness does a decent M&T have to have for a
>>long lasting joint? I can't imagine that the mortising attachment is
>>gonna leave the walls of the mortise all that smooth. I've only gone
>>general purpose chisel for now. Do I just got at it with sandpaper or
>>do I need to buy more tools (aaargh! I can't get something new every
>
> week!)
>
>>I don't have a tenoning attachment for the TS, but could rig up
>>something, albeit kludgy to run a board thru vertically. Is using a BS
>>not a good way to do it? I have one blade that gives a reasonably
>>smooth cut; a 3/16 Pro olsen 10 TPI, raker set. Should I just use the
>>TS for ALL the tenon cuts? I'm expecting that if it's all done on the
>>TS, I won't need to smooth the surface, but to make a tiny adjustment,
>>do you sand or what? My new smoother is the only plane I've got. Or
>>would I be better off milling this on the router table, using a 1/2
>>straight double flute bit. I could make precise depth changes to the
>>bit for a very precise fit. Would you use or TS or router?
>>
>>Please tell me I can accomplish these tasks without buying more stuff!
>>:) Eventually I'll get a bunch of chisels, and perhaps a tenon jig for
>>the TS. But for now, is this doable with a BS, TS, router table, and no
>>Neander tools but one basic chisel and a smoother.
>>
>>How do you set up a router to do a deep, carefully positioned mortise,
>>without buying the Leigh jig, or other expensive jig? Like I said, I
>>have a router table, but I also have a 2 1/4 HP handheld router.
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>
>
>

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:06:50 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>1) Every drawer I've made I've used full extension slides. Now I want
>to make an end table with a single drawer; all wood. If I have oak on
>hand, do I make a single center runner

You go and search, or you go and buy a copy of Tage Frid (or a dozen
other authors on _basic_ cabinetmaking)

>At what point do you make hollow legs (not that I'd imagine
>that would be the case for the size I'm gonna make)?

When you're doing the L & JG Stickley "radial figure on four faces"
thing.


>Still can't quite envision how to bring
>the flute to a sharp point while routing it.

You don't - use a hand chisel. Doing it on a router is a pain however
you do it.


>3) I think I'm going to finally make mortise and tenons. (MAJOR
>CRINGING!

Finally ?

What the hell do you _do_ all day ?


> I have the mortising attachment for the DP, which should work
>in oak, I hope.

It'll work badly, and a really cheap morticer is (IMHO) a better tool
for only a little money. Mine is cheap junk, but I wouldn't be
without it and I can't afford the $500 for anything significantly
better.

> Mortise first, and then make the tenon fit it, correct?

Make the thing you can't control first, then make the thing you can
control, so as to fit it. As you have a bandsaw, then the second bit
is easy. Just make sure the fence is adjusted properly for drift.


>What level of smoothness does a decent M&T have to have for a
>long lasting joint?

I've been cutting them with an adze of late, and I'm hoping for the
same 600 year service life that other timber framing work has achieved
on the same job.


>I can't imagine that the mortising attachment is
>gonna leave the walls of the mortise all that smooth.

It ought to. Smoother than you care anyway.


--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

sure thing, Andy Dingy.

dave

Andy Dingley wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 23:57:09 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>and just what is a newsgroup for, Richard? NOT answering questions?
>
>
> But sometimes Dave, you're the living proof that there _are_ stupid
> questions.
>

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 23:57:09 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>and just what is a newsgroup for, Richard? NOT answering questions?

But sometimes Dave, you're the living proof that there _are_ stupid
questions.

Dave clarify a couple of things
Are you trying to attempt to make a full ext slide from wood /
Can you lead me to the picture of the fluted legs you are attempting to
replicate
As for the Mortise & Tenon Joint the mortise can be made with the router, to
me better in a table and with a spiral bit and depending on how deep do not
try to cut it all at once
The tenon on the circular saw should not be a problem
You can use a dado and the fence
George
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1) Every drawer I've made I've used full extension slides. Now I want
> to make an end table with a single drawer; all wood. If I have oak on
> hand, do I make a single center runner (and btw, HOW?? :) ) or do you
> use two runners, or runners on the side, from oak? I also have maple,
> but the table will be oak. In other words, how do YOU make a drawer
> slide with all wood components?
>
> This is going to be a country styled oak end table with a drawer near
> the top, and I'm leaning towards, but not committed to, a full width
> shelf near the floor. Thinking about tapered legs, which I suppose I'd
> have to start by gluing up 5/4 or 6/4 material to make the legs thick
> enough. At what point do you make hollow legs (not that I'd imagine
> that would be the case for the size I'm gonna make)?
>
> 2) I saw a picture of fluted legs that are taped only near the floor,
> starting about six inches up. The flutes taper off to a point, like I
> had asked about a while back. Still can't quite envision how to bring
> the flute to a sharp point while routing it. If I use a router table to
> flute, do I just practice at lifting the leg up near the end of the cut,
> and set a reference mark, so that all 3 flutes have the same ending
> contour. Seems like that would be hard to pull off with uniformity, so
> I'm expecting someone has a better way.
>
> 3) I think I'm going to finally make mortise and tenons. (MAJOR
> CRINGING! I have the mortising attachment for the DP, which should work
> in oak, I hope.) Mortise first, and then make the tenon fit it,
> correct? What level of smoothness does a decent M&T have to have for a
> long lasting joint? I can't imagine that the mortising attachment is
> gonna leave the walls of the mortise all that smooth. I've only gone
> general purpose chisel for now. Do I just got at it with sandpaper or
> do I need to buy more tools (aaargh! I can't get something new every
week!)
>
> I don't have a tenoning attachment for the TS, but could rig up
> something, albeit kludgy to run a board thru vertically. Is using a BS
> not a good way to do it? I have one blade that gives a reasonably
> smooth cut; a 3/16 Pro olsen 10 TPI, raker set. Should I just use the
> TS for ALL the tenon cuts? I'm expecting that if it's all done on the
> TS, I won't need to smooth the surface, but to make a tiny adjustment,
> do you sand or what? My new smoother is the only plane I've got. Or
> would I be better off milling this on the router table, using a 1/2
> straight double flute bit. I could make precise depth changes to the
> bit for a very precise fit. Would you use or TS or router?
>
> Please tell me I can accomplish these tasks without buying more stuff!
> :) Eventually I'll get a bunch of chisels, and perhaps a tenon jig for
> the TS. But for now, is this doable with a BS, TS, router table, and no
> Neander tools but one basic chisel and a smoother.
>
> How do you set up a router to do a deep, carefully positioned mortise,
> without buying the Leigh jig, or other expensive jig? Like I said, I
> have a router table, but I also have a 2 1/4 HP handheld router.
>
>
> dave
>