Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a book.
They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
repackage the book and mail it back.
I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's this
book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame of
mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to repackage
that money and send it back.
Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
sleazy method of marketing.
Maverick
"Maverick" wrote in message
> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
> sleazy method of marketing.
Naaaah, you're right in feeling that way, IMO ... and by sending the book
back, you definitely keep them busy handling the results of their dubious
marketing schemes. If everyone took the time to send the books back, they
would soon quit.
That said, there is a recent "marketing scheme" that I DO like.
Got a CD in the mail from TurboTax. Stick it in the CD drive, access their
website, pay for your desired version with a credit card and bingo, you've
got a full fledged copy of TT, no fuss, no muss, no travel, no standing in
line.
That, I like.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
Maverick (akmaverick by any chance?), I agree with you. I think you
were definitely being nice to them by returning the book especially
considering the travel and time involved on your part.
A few years ago I received a book from Reader's Digest. Same sort of
thing--unsolicited--they just sent it. Knowing the postal regulations I
decided to keep the free gift. RD sent a request for payment. I sent it
back with a note telling them that I wasn't paying for it since I
hadn't requested it. Then I started getting notices from some
collection agency and eventually a law firm.
I sent the RD, the collection agency and the law firm (the last two I
suspect don't actually exist but are a figment of Reader's Digest's
imagination) a letter telling them that I didn't appreciate the
harrassment and that I would be turning the matter over to my state's
attorney general and the Better Business Bureau. I also informed RD
that if I ever got another piece of mail or a phone call from them that
I would consider it further harrassment and would contact a lawyer.
That seemed to work and I've never been bothered by them again.
Dave
As editor and publisher, I don't believe Popular Woodworking is
involved in this and wanted to get the word out that if anyone has any
more details or specific information, I'd like to know in order to put
an end to it. I also checked with our Woodworkers Book Club and based
on the post, doesn't sound familiar to them.
Maverick wrote:
> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers
a book.
> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks.
Otherwise,
> repackage the book and mail it back.
>
> I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I
get
> this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do.
But,
> as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to
the
> post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and
there's this
> book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
> interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not
have to
> return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly
frame of
> mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
> displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
> renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
repackage
> that money and send it back.
>
> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a
very
> sleazy method of marketing.
>
> Maverick
I've learned that an employee here actually received the same book and
offer in the mail yesterday. Let me just say that it is from a
competitor of Popular Woodworking and leave it at that. It was a book
for $9 with option to pay the $9, return it postage paid so another
woodworker could get it, or, since it was unsolicited, just keep it.
Maverick, I'd have to agree that this is a marketing tactic designed to
confuse the recipient. It's also a practice Popular Woodworking would
not engage in. And I wish you'd reconsider your subscription with us
and not paint all magazines with the same brush.
Steve, Popular Woodworking Editor & Publisher
Maverick wrote:
> You could be very correct. The package had the names of Woodworkers
Journal,
> Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking on it. As I only subscribe
to
> Popular Woodworking, I doubt this would have come from any other
source.
> But, if it did not come from your publication, please accept my
sincere
> apology. But, I'm not going to keep the subscription anyhow. I just
don't
> trust magazine folks anymore.
>
> Maverick
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > As editor and publisher, I don't believe Popular Woodworking is
> > involved in this and wanted to get the word out that if anyone has
any
> > more details or specific information, I'd like to know in order to
put
> > an end to it. I also checked with our Woodworkers Book Club and
based
> > on the post, doesn't sound familiar to them.
> > Maverick wrote:
> >> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their
subscribers
> > a book.
> >> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks.
> > Otherwise,
> >> repackage the book and mail it back.
> >>
> >> I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area.
So, I
> > get
> >> this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever
do.
> > But,
> >> as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go
to
> > the
> >> post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and
> > there's this
> >> book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
> >> interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not
> > have to
> >> return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly
> > frame of
> >> mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
> >> displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had
just
> >
> >> renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
> > repackage
> >> that money and send it back.
> >>
> >> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was
a
> > very
> >> sleazy method of marketing.
> >>
> >> Maverick
> >
Reading all this with interest, I am highly offended at these tactics
and the only way they'll stop is if you whack them a couple of times.
It also struck me that here in NJ they have this consumer fraud statute
which allows for treble damages and attorney fees, and this tactic
seems to fall within its prohibitions. I wish they'd send one to me
and then try to bill me for it; I'd whip up a lawsuit so fast and sue
them for three times the $9 plus the fees of a lawyer acquaintance of
mine (@$300/hr) just to make them hire a lawyer to defend the case.
Let's see, about 3 hours to research and draft the complaint, another 4
hours for a summary judgment motion, 4 hours to appear and argue the
motion....it all adds up.
Mutt
> Except that Intuit is as sleazy as the mag publishers. Examples
include
> their recent letter to Quicken users, "sunsetting" anything other
than
> their new version that has less features and is loaded with more ads
and
> "phone home" features than the versions being sunsetted. I had used
> TurboTax for a number of years until 3 years ago when they tried
their
> "product activation" scheme that limited use to a single computer,
> jeopardized the ability to recover records, and used a protection
scheme
> that was highly dubious
They've completely abandoned that type of production activation.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Maverick" wrote in message
> Got a CD in the mail from TurboTax. Stick it in the CD drive, access their
> website, pay for your desired version with a credit card and bingo, you've
> got a full fledged copy of TT, no fuss, no muss, no travel, no standing in
> line.
>
> That, I like.
This is a good idea and I have gotten those also but I always get the CD
about 3 weeks after buying the copy from the store. They need to send them
out first. Additionally I have found the store price to be cheaper.
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 11/06/04
>
>
I'm glad to see that Steve Shanesy stepped up, already. I'm almost positive
this came from Woodworkers Journal, not Popular Woodworking. At least, the
book that I got came from WJ. I also received several requests for payment
even though I never ordered the book. Very sleazy and makes me think I may
not want to continue my subscription to WJ. I keep expecting some kind of
apology from them for this marketing approach.
Phil
Visit my Web site www.philsfun.com
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
> book. They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks.
> Otherwise, repackage the book and mail it back.
>
<snip>
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:19:17 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>They're out to get _you_! :)
>
>I've been using them for better than 10 years and never had that problem.
Try to cancel it and see what I mean, just try it....
I just call them up and tell that ANY unsolicited packages arriving by
mail ARE considered as gifts. If THEY want it back, they can pay me
for my time and effort, otherwise, Thank you very much for the nice
FREE book
NRA did this with a video a while back, and other than the person I
was talking to on the phone NOT really understanding what the big deal
was, gave no hassles over this approach
John
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:15 GMT, "Maverick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a book.
>They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>repackage the book and mail it back.
>
>I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
>as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's this
>book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame of
>mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to repackage
>that money and send it back.
>
>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>sleazy method of marketing.
>
>Maverick
>
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
> book. They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks.
> Otherwise, repackage the book and mail it back.
> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
> sleazy method of marketing.
Sleazy and illegal in my state. The same thing happened to me with a
'partner' of Wachovia when it issued credit cards. Seems Leisure Advantage
a branch of AT& T(IIRC) ordered me a discount 'travel plan' without my
approval. I contacted the state attorney general in my state , the attorney
general in the state that Leisure Advantage was based and the postal
inspector. I filed a complaint with each and each agency followed through.
In the end, Leisure Advantage removed the charge it had made and gave me an
additional $70 credit. You don't have to just sit and take it. Call your
state attorney general and get a complaint form. They will bring a lot more
to bear on PW than an individual.
Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
www.llhote.com
You could be very correct. The package had the names of Woodworkers Journal,
Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking on it. As I only subscribe to
Popular Woodworking, I doubt this would have come from any other source.
But, if it did not come from your publication, please accept my sincere
apology. But, I'm not going to keep the subscription anyhow. I just don't
trust magazine folks anymore.
Maverick
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As editor and publisher, I don't believe Popular Woodworking is
> involved in this and wanted to get the word out that if anyone has any
> more details or specific information, I'd like to know in order to put
> an end to it. I also checked with our Woodworkers Book Club and based
> on the post, doesn't sound familiar to them.
> Maverick wrote:
>> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers
> a book.
>> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks.
> Otherwise,
>> repackage the book and mail it back.
>>
>> I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I
> get
>> this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do.
> But,
>> as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to
> the
>> post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and
> there's this
>> book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>> interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not
> have to
>> return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly
> frame of
>> mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>> displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>
>> renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
> repackage
>> that money and send it back.
>>
>> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a
> very
>> sleazy method of marketing.
>>
>> Maverick
>
What's a "ruder dunes"?
John Emmons
"Rob Mills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:KpuOd.5709$ds.2593@okepread07...
>
> "Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >>>I just don't trust magazine folks anymore.<<<
>
> Join the crowd, I just got a invoice from Woodworkers Journal stating
> "Welcome Back". I have never received one of their magazines. I tried
> subscribing once (several years ago), even filled out a subscription form
> and mailed it with a check. They obviously couldn't get the check out of
the
> envelope (the check never cleared the bank) and proceeded to send me dunes
> for payment. I sent them a letter stating that I had sent a check and had
no
> intension of issuing another until I was sure that the first wouldn't show
> up. They never acknowledged the problem or apologized, just kept sending
> ruder dunes which I just kept feeding my shredder. RM ~
>
>
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>I just don't trust magazine folks anymore.<<<
Join the crowd, I just got a invoice from Woodworkers Journal stating
"Welcome Back". I have never received one of their magazines. I tried
subscribing once (several years ago), even filled out a subscription form
and mailed it with a check. They obviously couldn't get the check out of the
envelope (the check never cleared the bank) and proceeded to send me dunes
for payment. I sent them a letter stating that I had sent a check and had no
intension of issuing another until I was sure that the first wouldn't show
up. They never acknowledged the problem or apologized, just kept sending
ruder dunes which I just kept feeding my shredder. RM ~
Maybe that's why I said this:
>>I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>> return the book, nor send them any money
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If they sent it to you and you did not order it, it's yours.
>
> "Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
> book.
>> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>> repackage the book and mail it back.
>>
>> I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>> this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do.
>> But,
>> as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>> post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's
> this
>> book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>> interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have
>> to
>> return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame
> of
>> mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>> displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>> renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
> repackage
>> that money and send it back.
>>
>> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>> sleazy method of marketing.
>>
>> Maverick
>>
>>
>
>
"WD" wrote in message
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:24:14 -0600, "Swingman"wrote:
>
> >Got a CD in the mail from TurboTax. Stick it in the CD drive, access
their
> >website, pay for your desired version with a credit card and bingo,
you've
> >got a full fledged copy of TT, no fuss, no muss, no travel, no standing
in
> >line.
>
> Becareful with Intuit's TurboTax. Don't ever sign up for next year. It
took me
> two years to get my name and credit card number off their mail list. Each
time I
> called I end up in India and spending hours each time... Just DON'T do it
if you
> understand me, it's just not worth it!
They're out to get _you_! :)
I've been using them for better than 10 years and never had that problem.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
If they sent it to you and you did not order it, it's yours.
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
book.
> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
> repackage the book and mail it back.
>
> I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
> this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
> as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
> post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's
this
> book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
> interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
> return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame
of
> mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
> displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
> renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
repackage
> that money and send it back.
>
> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
> sleazy method of marketing.
>
> Maverick
>
>
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> If they sent it to you and you did not order it, it's yours.<<<
You've got it. When my Mom was well along in her 80's she ordered a stamp
catalog. They sent her a bill (aprox $25) for sample stamps that they
claimed to have sent her. Mom didn't recall ordering or receiving any
stamps. After umpteen statements demanding payment I sent the company a
letter explaing Mom's age and that she didn't remember ordering or receiving
any stamps but if they could provide me with tangible evidence that the
stamps were indeed ordered and received I would gladly send them a check.
They never responded to my letter but kept sending demands for payment, even
had a collection agency (probably a fake) send demands. These demands went
on for about two years then stopped. RM~
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:15 GMT, "Maverick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a book.
>They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>repackage the book and mail it back.
>
>I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
>as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's this
>book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame of
>mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to repackage
>that money and send it back.
>
>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>sleazy method of marketing.
>
>Maverick
>
I have to wonder how many of these stories may actually be the result
of some jerk filling out trial book club memberships in someone else's
name, and not sleazy business practices.
Just a thought.
Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin
"Mark and Kim Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> I think with the CD in the mail / online purchase, you get the state
> version for free. So it works out even / slightly better deal than
> walking into the store. IIRC, last year I got an email in conjunction
> with the CD, this year just the CD came in the mail. Been using TT for
> the last 5 years, don't know why I paid someone before that!
Well no, Texas has not State Income Tax.
I have been using TurboTax for about 15 years.
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:30:35 -0600, "Rob Mills" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>>>I just don't trust magazine folks anymore.<<<
>
>Join the crowd, I just got a invoice from Woodworkers Journal stating
>"Welcome Back". I have never received one of their magazines. I tried
>subscribing once (several years ago), even filled out a subscription form
>and mailed it with a check. They obviously couldn't get the check out of the
>envelope (the check never cleared the bank) and proceeded to send me dunes
>for payment. I sent them a letter stating that I had sent a check and had no
>intension of issuing another until I was sure that the first wouldn't show
>up. They never acknowledged the problem or apologized, just kept sending
>ruder dunes which I just kept feeding my shredder. RM ~
Yeah, it's amazing how one or two magazine subscriptions can turn into
5 or 6 bills- I subscribe to Discover, Popular Mechanics and
Woodsmith, and I get a bill from some other magazine at least once a
month. Wood magazine keeps sending me invoices, as well as Popular
Woodworking and a couple of others. But- I don't actually believe
that the magazines have much to do with it. I ordered Discover and
Popular Mechanics directly via the subscription cards that come in the
magazines, and I don't get any bills for similar magazines- Woodsmith,
I ordered from a magazine clearinghouse online, and I get deluged by
offers related to woodworking. Seems to me it's the clearinghouse
that is doing the sleazy work- not necessarily the magazines
themselves.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Leon wrote:
>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>"Maverick" wrote in message
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Got a CD in the mail from TurboTax. Stick it in the CD drive, access their
>>website, pay for your desired version with a credit card and bingo, you've
>>got a full fledged copy of TT, no fuss, no muss, no travel, no standing in
>>line.
>>
>>That, I like.
>>
>>
>
>This is a good idea and I have gotten those also but I always get the CD
>about 3 weeks after buying the copy from the store. They need to send them
>out first. Additionally I have found the store price to be cheaper.
>
>
>
>
>>--
>>www.e-woodshop.net
>>Last update: 11/06/04
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
I think with the CD in the mail / online purchase, you get the state
version for free. So it works out even / slightly better deal than
walking into the store. IIRC, last year I got an email in conjunction
with the CD, this year just the CD came in the mail. Been using TT for
the last 5 years, don't know why I paid someone before that!
I don't know, but maybe there's something in the terms and conditions of
your subscription that allows them to do this and therefore implies that the
book is not unsolicited. i.e. "We may from time to time send you items that
we think might be of interest etc." or am I just paranoid.
--
Grumble
"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:15 GMT, "Maverick" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
>>book.
>>They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>>repackage the book and mail it back.
>>
>>I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>>this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
>>as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>>post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's
>>this
>>book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>>interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>>return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame
>>of
>>mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>>displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>>renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
>>repackage
>>that money and send it back.
>>
>>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>>sleazy method of marketing.
>
> You are correct, total sleaze. However, don't send it back, it's
> yours. While living in CT a few years back, I had this with the
> infamous "Cue-cat" (If you don't know what this is, do a Google
> search, it's really quite funny) The local PO chief showed me an
> extract from his manual of regs and rules. If it's unsolicited, it's
> yours after some time. 30 or 90 days, IIRC. You don't have to do
> anything, except count the days.
>
> Barry Lennox
Probably need to check with the US Postal Service, but, if this book was
sent to you without your prior knowledge or authorization, the book is
yours - not sure of the details, but usually anything sent via US Postal
Service which you DID NOT order, that "thing" is yours to keep.
Lawrence L'Hote wrote:
> "Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
>>book. They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks.
>>Otherwise, repackage the book and mail it back.
>>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>>sleazy method of marketing.
>
>
> Sleazy and illegal in my state. The same thing happened to me with a
> 'partner' of Wachovia when it issued credit cards. Seems Leisure Advantage
> a branch of AT& T(IIRC) ordered me a discount 'travel plan' without my
> approval. I contacted the state attorney general in my state , the attorney
> general in the state that Leisure Advantage was based and the postal
> inspector. I filed a complaint with each and each agency followed through.
> In the end, Leisure Advantage removed the charge it had made and gave me an
> additional $70 credit. You don't have to just sit and take it. Call your
> state attorney general and get a complaint form. They will bring a lot more
> to bear on PW than an individual.
> Larry
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:HYoOd.1320696
>
> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
> sleazy method of marketing.
I agree with you. They went to the trouble to send it to you, if it is
truly valuable and they want it back they can come and get it also.
Imagine a local store delivering to you instead of to the correct address
and wanting you to complete the delivery or go to the trouble to return
their mistake.
It is Popular Woodworking's mistake in assuming that you wanted to buy the
book. It is their responsibility to come and get it if they want it back.
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
book.
> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
> repackage the book and mail it back.
>
> I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
> this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
> as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
> post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's
this
> book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
> interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
> return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame
of
> mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
> displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
> renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to
repackage
> that money and send it back.
>
> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
> sleazy method of marketing.
>
> Maverick
>
Definitely sleazy, but I wouldn't consider it beneath most magazine
publishers. None of them get real high marks in my book for
customer-oriented behavior. When I canceled my american woodworker
subscription due to it getting too readers-digest-like (yes, I know who
publishes it), I spent 10 phone calls arguing with them over their supposed
*policy* that they _couldn't_ cancel it, even upon my request due to the
fact that I purchased the subscription through a third party *agent*. In
this case, the agent was a neighborhood high school kid I was helping out
with a fundraiser. Not only this, but they don't keep records on who the
agents are so I have to go track the kid down if I want to cancel. Utter
bullshit says I, and they better get their stuff together or calls will be
placed to attorneys, bbb etc....(ok, this was a bluff, but it worked). A
week later they call back saying that they found out the agent organization
and they're canceling my subscription. Odd, says I, you said you didn't
keep those records for anyone. What, was *MY* account mysteriously tagged
with the agent information that you were able to call me with, or were you
just flat out lying to me trying to make me go away? No, nevermind, that
was rhetorical. So, 2 weeks later, I get a check for the balance of my
subscription. This was nine months ago.
AND NOW, the kicker,
I'm still receiving the magazine.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> No, it's not sleazy at all. If you take the time to READ the "offer", they
> state that you do NOT have to return it, according to USPS law. You didn't
> order it so it's yours. They would LIKE you to return it but not required.
>
> A very common marketing tactic. I get LOTS of free books that way <G>.
>
> But, in fairness to PW - it's all explained in their literature that came
> with the book - which is an OK book BTW.
I fairness to PW, they weren't the one who sent it. It was sent by
Woodworker's Journal. Personally, I'm not offended at all. They can send
me all the unsolicited books they want. I'll keep them all.
--
Hank Gillette
In article <[email protected]>,
"grumble" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't know, but maybe there's something in the terms and conditions of
> your subscription that allows them to do this and therefore implies that the
> book is not unsolicited. i.e. "We may from time to time send you items that
> we think might be of interest etc." or am I just paranoid.
Well they actually say on the form "Because you didn't ask for this
special book, you don't have to participate or send it back".
--
Hank Gillette
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:32:40 GMT, "John Emmons" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>What's a "ruder dunes"?
>
Sand hills that insult you or make fun of you when you fall off your dirt
bike. :-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:52:42 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:HYoOd.1320696
>>
>> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>> sleazy method of marketing.
>
>
>I agree with you. They went to the trouble to send it to you, if it is
>truly valuable and they want it back they can come and get it also.
>Imagine a local store delivering to you instead of to the correct address
>and wanting you to complete the delivery or go to the trouble to return
>their mistake.
>
>It is Popular Woodworking's mistake in assuming that you wanted to buy the
>book. It is their responsibility to come and get it if they want it back.
>
Unless the law has been changed, you have no obligation to return anything that
you didn't request..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:15 GMT, the inscrutable "Maverick"
<[email protected]> spake:
>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a book.
>They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>repackage the book and mail it back.
>
>I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
>as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's this
>book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame of
>mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to repackage
>that money and send it back.
>
>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>sleazy method of marketing.
Just Say No!
Please remember that you never have to pay to return something someone
sends to you unsolicited. If they bill you for it, request a return
postage label. Some places, like Amazon, have ways of doing this
online. I was able to print one for returning the book in minutes.
Yes, the book clubs with their auto-shipping policies sucker millions
out of unsuspecting customers each year. That tactic sucks, but if
you don't stand up to them, it will continue to happen.
-
They who know the truth are not equal to those who love it. -Confucius
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Programming Services
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:15 GMT, "Maverick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a book.
>They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>repackage the book and mail it back.
>
>I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
>as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's this
>book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame of
>mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to repackage
>that money and send it back.
>
>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>sleazy method of marketing.
You are correct, total sleaze. However, don't send it back, it's
yours. While living in CT a few years back, I had this with the
infamous "Cue-cat" (If you don't know what this is, do a Google
search, it's really quite funny) The local PO chief showed me an
extract from his manual of regs and rules. If it's unsolicited, it's
yours after some time. 30 or 90 days, IIRC. You don't have to do
anything, except count the days.
Barry Lennox
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:15 GMT, "Maverick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a book.
>They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
>repackage the book and mail it back.
>
>I live quite a ways from the post office, in a very rural area. So, I get
>this little notice to go to the post office, which we seldom ever do. But,
>as we hardly ever get these notices, we drop what we're doing, go to the
>post office, get our package, bring it home and open it up and there's this
>book. I am not happy with this book. And I am not happy with the
>interruption of my day. I know that according to the law, I do not have to
>return the book, nor send them any money. But, being in a friendly frame of
>mind, I repackage the book, and include a nice letter outlining my
>displeasure with the action Popular Woodworking has taken. I had just
>renewed my subscription and sent them the money. Now, they get to repackage
>that money and send it back.
>
>Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>sleazy method of marketing.
It is a little sleazy, but it can be useful if the books are
worthwhile. I'm not a subscriber to Popular Woodworking, so I didn't
get that one, but I do subscribe to Woodsmith, and buy the books they
send me every month or so. There's no real discount to doing it that
way, but it's a nice easy way to build of my woodworking library, and
they've come in handy a couple of times already. I guess the biggest
difference in the strategy of the two publishers is that to get the
monthy books from woodsmith, I had to actually fill out and mail in a
card- they didn't just send it to me without asking.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:24:14 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Maverick" wrote in message
>
>> Maybe I'm just an old grouch in my old age but I believe this was a very
>> sleazy method of marketing.
>
>Naaaah, you're right in feeling that way, IMO ... and by sending the book
>back, you definitely keep them busy handling the results of their dubious
>marketing schemes. If everyone took the time to send the books back, they
>would soon quit.
>
>That said, there is a recent "marketing scheme" that I DO like.
>
>Got a CD in the mail from TurboTax. Stick it in the CD drive, access their
>website, pay for your desired version with a credit card and bingo, you've
>got a full fledged copy of TT, no fuss, no muss, no travel, no standing in
>line.
>
>That, I like.
Except that Intuit is as sleazy as the mag publishers. Examples include
their recent letter to Quicken users, "sunsetting" anything other than
their new version that has less features and is loaded with more ads and
"phone home" features than the versions being sunsetted. I had used
TurboTax for a number of years until 3 years ago when they tried their
"product activation" scheme that limited use to a single computer,
jeopardized the ability to recover records, and used a protection scheme
that was highly dubious (i.e. had many characteristics of spyware). I
migrated to TaxCut and have been satisfied with it as well, it's as easy to
use and thus far they don't treat their customers like criminals. (Take a
look at ed foster's gripe line and do a search on turbotax for some better
detail than I can type in a few seconds. <www.gripe2ed.com> Ed Foster
writes for Infoworld. Unfortunately, it looks like there are only
allusions to the earlier activation/spyware incident, most of what is there
is more recent things that Intuit is doing (e.g. won't import from
soon-to-be-sunsettted Quicken versions and reduced functionality). Here is
a link from the original Intuit behavior:
<http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/14/07gripe_1.html> Note that the
complaints here are not that Intuit was protecting its software, but how
and the effects it had on honest folks.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Maverick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking, it appears, has mailed all of their subscribers a
book.
> They tell you that if you like the book, send them 9 bucks. Otherwise,
> repackage the book and mail it back.
<snip>
No, it's not sleazy at all. If you take the time to READ the "offer", they
state that you do NOT have to return it, according to USPS law. You didn't
order it so it's yours. They would LIKE you to return it but not required.
A very common marketing tactic. I get LOTS of free books that way <G>.
But, in fairness to PW - it's all explained in their literature that came
with the book - which is an OK book BTW.
HTH,
Vic
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
> Except that Intuit is as sleazy as the mag publishers.
Yep ... I heartily dislike Intuit, and particularly QuickBooks ... have used
the latter exclusively for about ten years for my Internet company. Intuit
definitely sucks since they took over with their corporate attitude and MSFT
programming mentality.
However, I started with TaxCut years ago for my personal taxes and then
moved over to TurboTax, I have never regretted the move ... _yet_.
That said, I load it at the last minute, do my taxes, and get that crap off
my computer as fast as I can. The Discs/now CDs go in with the years
receipts and a print out of all the worksheets.
I could care less whether I ever see it again, nor would I ever have a need
to load it again.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Leon" wrote in message
>
> "Mark and Kim Smith" wrote in message
> > I think with the CD in the mail / online purchase, you get the state
> > version for free. So it works out even / slightly better deal than
> > walking into the store. IIRC, last year I got an email in conjunction
> > with the CD, this year just the CD came in the mail. Been using TT for
> > the last 5 years, don't know why I paid someone before that!
>
> Well no, Texas has not State Income Tax.
> I have been using TurboTax for about 15 years.
Ditto here ... my CD for 2004 came sometime before Christmas.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:24:14 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Got a CD in the mail from TurboTax. Stick it in the CD drive, access their
>website, pay for your desired version with a credit card and bingo, you've
>got a full fledged copy of TT, no fuss, no muss, no travel, no standing in
>line.
Becareful with Intuit's TurboTax. Don't ever sign up for next year. It took me
two years to get my name and credit card number off their mail list. Each time I
called I end up in India and spending hours each time... Just DON'T do it if you
understand me, it's just not worth it!