I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
casing is not wire...
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does=
=20
> >> it work.=C2=A0 What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >>
> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-No=
n-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> >>
> >>
> >> What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=
=C2=A0 The=20
> >> casing is not wire...
> >=20
> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,=
=20
> > not metal.
> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and time=
s=20
> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
> >=20
> > So that's the designation.=C2=A0 MC for metal clad, and NM for non-meta=
llic.
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not=20
> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>=20
Interesting story (at least to me) about NM wire.
I'm sure that most of us are familiar with the "cloth covered" NM wiring in=
=20
older homes. You know, same concept as Romex, except that all the sheathing
is cloth, not plastic. Well...
My godparents lived on Narragansett Blvd in Chicopee MA. (be sure to rememb=
er=20
the name of that street) Their house was where I learned about knob-and-tub=
e=20
wiring as a teenager. I helped my godfather pull some new wires through the=
=20
K&T fixtures. It was my first experience with house wiring.
=20
Fast forward a decade or so when I was about to buy my first house, a house=
=20
located in western NY. While visiting my godparents they handed me a wad of=
=20
cash to help with the down-payment.
So, I move in and I'm getting ready to do some wiring work on my own house.
A house that some nice folks that lived on Narragansett Blvd helped me buy.=
=20
Narragansett Blvd, where I had my very first experience with house wiring. =
=20
Imagine my surprise when I looked at the cloth covered NM wiring and notice=
d
the name "Narragansett Wire Company" printed on the sheathing!
That was a very spooky feeling!
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
>https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
>What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>casing is not wire...
Yes it is still a copper conductor, it is the sheathing compared to
armored cable which the description is also confuusing because it say
aluminum and the conductors are copper.
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> > I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does i=
t work. =20
> > What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >=20
> > https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non=
-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=C2=
=A0 The casing is=20
> > not wire...
>=20
> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the p=
age
> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of ele=
ctricity?
> Who educates these people?
Water
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
>https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
>What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>casing is not wire...
The product category is under
" non metallic jacket wire "
shortened to " non metallic wire "
in the product page - just to confuse people ..
John T.
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 10:50:54 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:02:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:47:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> >> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> >> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> >> >> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how=
does=20
> >> >> >> it work.=C2=A0 What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-1=
2-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the cas=
ing?=C2=A0 The=20
> >> >> >> casing is not wire...
> >> >> >=20
> >> >> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of pl=
astic,=20
> >> >> > not metal.
> >> >> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire an=
d times=20
> >> >> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
> >> >> >=20
> >> >> > So that's the designation.=C2=A0 MC for metal clad, and NM for no=
n-metallic.
> >> >> >=20
> >> >> >=20
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do =
not=20
> >> >> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
> >> >>=20
> >> >
> >> >Interesting story (at least to me) about NM wire.
> >> >
> >> >I'm sure that most of us are familiar with the "cloth covered" NM wir=
ing in=20
> >> >older homes. You know, same concept as Romex, except that all the she=
athing
> >> >is cloth, not plastic. Well...
> >>=20
> >> The original "romex" WAS the tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff.
> >
> >Romex=C2=AE is the specific brand name for a non-metallic (NM) building=
=20
> >wire made by Southwire.
> >
> >"tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff" was branded under other names, as
> >is the plastic covered stuff sold today.
> >
> >The Narragansett Wire Company did not make "Romex".=20
>=20
>=20
> My dad was an electrician and pulled miles of ROMEX Long before the
> plastic stuff came out. Invented and trademarked in 1922 by the Rome
> Wire Co in Rome New York. First described in the NEC of 1926.
>=20
> Rome Wire became General Cable which was bought out by southwire in
> 2001 (sept 5, to be exact).
>=20
> Narragansett cable produced a "eomex" style cabble under the name
> NARAX.
>=20
> The original "fabric" romex type cable was in common use up until
> aproxemately 1975 when the price of the plastic insulated pruduct
> became competetive (available from the mid-sixties) The original
> romex used eubber insulated wire, with thermoplastic becoming common
> in the mid fifties.
>=20
> Dad came home blacker from his electrical work in the early years than
> he did from the iron foundry where he fed the Bessemer.
So, basically, you just used a lot more words to say exactly what I said.
Romex is brand name.
On 3/8/2019 8:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:55:31 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it work.
>>>> What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The casing is
>>>> not wire...
>>>
>>> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the page
>>> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
>>> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of electricity?
>>> Who educates these people?
>>
>> Air (at high enough voltages)
>>
>> Ever heard of lightening?
>
> Without the "e"? ;-)
>
concrete, leather, fabric. . . damn near anything if the moisture
content and voltage are high enough.
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:47:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> >> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how do=
es=20
> >> >> it work.=C2=A0 What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2=
-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing=
?=C2=A0 The=20
> >> >> casing is not wire...
> >> >=20
> >> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plast=
ic,=20
> >> > not metal.
> >> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and t=
imes=20
> >> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
> >> >=20
> >> > So that's the designation.=C2=A0 MC for metal clad, and NM for non-m=
etallic.
> >> >=20
> >> >=20
> >>=20
> >> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not=
=20
> >> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
> >>=20
> >
> >Interesting story (at least to me) about NM wire.
> >
> >I'm sure that most of us are familiar with the "cloth covered" NM wiring=
in=20
> >older homes. You know, same concept as Romex, except that all the sheath=
ing
> >is cloth, not plastic. Well...
>=20
> The original "romex" WAS the tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff.
Romex=C2=AE is the specific brand name for a non-metallic (NM) building=20
wire made by Southwire.
"tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff" was branded under other names, as
is the plastic covered stuff sold today.
The Narragansett Wire Company did not make "Romex".=20
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:12:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>> >> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>> >>
>> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>> >> casing is not wire...
>> >
>> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>> > not metal.
>> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>> >
>> > So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>>
>
>It's not uncommon, assuming that you accept that by referring to something
>by using the initials NM, it is being referred to as non-metallic.
>
>https://www.thespruce.com/what-does-romex-or-nm-mean-1821530
>
>"Romex® is the specific brand name for a non-metallic (NM) building wire
>made by Southwire. In other words, Romex® is technically just one brand
>of NM cable. However, the term Romex is often used generically (though
>inaccurately) to describe any type of NM cable, no matter which manufacturer
>made it."
"Romex" is not wire - it is CABLE. A "wire" is a single conductor
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 12:25:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>>> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>
>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>
>>>
>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>>> casing is not wire...
>>
>> I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>> not metal.
>> There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>> when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>>
>> So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>>
>>
>
>Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>
>Probably another situation where those persons naming parts or
>describing something have no idea what the meaning of words are.
>
>Functionality, never needed to replace the word function. And for that
>matter, "almost any word that has had "ality" added in the last 10~12 years.
>
>Utilize, never needed to replace the word use.
>
>And while I am on the soap box, When did the word button start being
>pronounced but-in. Garden, now pronounced gar-din.
>
>Classic example of school no longer teaching students how to read the
>dictionary.
>
>All future left voters.
>
Another word peeve with = wid?
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does=
=20
> >> it work.=C2=A0 What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >>
> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-No=
n-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> >>
> >>
> >> What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=
=C2=A0 The=20
> >> casing is not wire...
> >=20
> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,=
=20
> > not metal.
> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and time=
s=20
> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
> >=20
> > So that's the designation.=C2=A0 MC for metal clad, and NM for non-meta=
llic.
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not=20
> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>=20
It's not uncommon, assuming that you accept that by referring to something
by using the initials NM, it is being referred to as non-metallic.
https://www.thespruce.com/what-does-romex-or-nm-mean-1821530
"Romex=C2=AE is the specific brand name for a non-metallic (NM) building wi=
re=20
made by Southwire. In other words, Romex=C2=AE is technically just one bran=
d=20
of NM cable. However, the term Romex is often used generically (though=20
inaccurately) to describe any type of NM cable, no matter which manufacture=
r=20
made it."
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 11:03:28 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
> work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
> casing is not wire...
Under description " Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper "
On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 15:21:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3/9/2019 3:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>>>> If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>>>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>>>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>>>
>>
>> Our nuclear power plants use " heavy water " for that very reason -
>> so that gravity will assure that the short-circuit-current
>> will flow to ground .. With regular old tap water -
>> the electrons might go anywhere !
>> John T.
>
>Chuckles...
>
I'm old enough to remember when there were HV transformers
that were cooled with get this - water !
Including my fav transformer cooling - on a EHV international
tie-line, no less - where the big old thang would get some extra
MVA with the cooling rads being sprayed with water - in addition
to the usual oil pumps and cooling fans ..
John T.
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:02:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:47:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>> >> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>> >> >> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>> >> >> casing is not wire...
>> >> >
>> >> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>> >> > not metal.
>> >> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>> >> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>> >> >
>> >> > So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>> >> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Interesting story (at least to me) about NM wire.
>> >
>> >I'm sure that most of us are familiar with the "cloth covered" NM wiring in
>> >older homes. You know, same concept as Romex, except that all the sheathing
>> >is cloth, not plastic. Well...
>>
>> The original "romex" WAS the tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff.
>
>Romex® is the specific brand name for a non-metallic (NM) building
>wire made by Southwire.
>
>"tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff" was branded under other names, as
>is the plastic covered stuff sold today.
>
>The Narragansett Wire Company did not make "Romex".
My dad was an electrician and pulled miles of ROMEX Long before the
plastic stuff came out. Invented and trademarked in 1922 by the Rome
Wire Co in Rome New York. First described in the NEC of 1926.
Rome Wire became General Cable which was bought out by southwire in
2001 (sept 5, to be exact).
Narragansett cable produced a "eomex" style cabble under the name
NARAX.
The original "fabric" romex type cable was in common use up until
aproxemately 1975 when the price of the plastic insulated pruduct
became competetive (available from the mid-sixties) The original
romex used eubber insulated wire, with thermoplastic becoming common
in the mid fifties.
Dad came home blacker from his electrical work in the early years than
he did from the iron foundry where he fed the Bessemer.
On 3/8/2019 11:32 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>> work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>
>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>
>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>> casing is not wire...
>
>
> The product category is under
>
> " non metallic jacket wire"
>
> shortened to " non metallic wire "
>
> in the product page - just to confuse people ..
>
> John T.
>
>
Yeah, another example would be 2x4.
On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>
>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>
>>
>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>> casing is not wire...
>
> I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
> not metal.
> There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
> when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>
> So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>
>
Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
Probably another situation where those persons naming parts or
describing something have no idea what the meaning of words are.
Functionality, never needed to replace the word function. And for that
matter, "almost any word that has had "ality" added in the last 10~12 years.
Utilize, never needed to replace the word use.
And while I am on the soap box, When did the word button start being
pronounced but-in. Garden, now pronounced gar-din.
Classic example of school no longer teaching students how to read the
dictionary.
All future left voters.
Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 12:25:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>And while I am on the soap box, When did the word button start being
>>pronounced but-in. Garden, now pronounced gar-din.
>>
>>Classic example of school no longer teaching students how to read the
>>dictionary.
Classic example of geographical variation, y'all.
On 3/8/2019 8:51 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:12:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>>>>> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>>>>> casing is not wire...
>>>>
>>>> I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>>>> not metal.
>>>> There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>>>> when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>>>>
>>>> So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>>> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>>>
>>
>> It's not uncommon, assuming that you accept that by referring to something
>> by using the initials NM, it is being referred to as non-metallic.
>>
>> https://www.thespruce.com/what-does-romex-or-nm-mean-1821530
>>
>> "Romex® is the specific brand name for a non-metallic (NM) building wire
>> made by Southwire. In other words, Romex® is technically just one brand
>> of NM cable. However, the term Romex is often used generically (though
>> inaccurately) to describe any type of NM cable, no matter which manufacturer
>> made it."
> "Romex" is not wire - it is CABLE. A "wire" is a single conductor
>
Yes, and further confuses the matter. LOL
On 3/8/2019 8:26 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>> work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>
>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>
>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>> casing is not wire...
> It is non metallic sheathed cable by definiution - has copper
> conductors. What do you expect af a big box store's description of
> technical products???
>
LOL, I exported more. But in this "every one gets a trophy" society of
uneducated people....
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-5, [email protected]
> wrote:
>>
>> Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
>> as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
>> boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
>
> I don't know about that. I remember the time I called him an A-hole.
> He reacted rather violently. ;-)
>
Someone's written a lengthy article on his life:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hydrogen
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
On 3/8/2019 9:50 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:48:27 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
>
>
>> I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
>> repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those and
>> the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way to
>> "improve their brand"
>>
>> In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters) and
>> Trump offspring
>
> Looks like time to update the killfile: this kind of snide ad hominem
> bullshit is a complete waste of time, and totally out of place in an
> exchange of ideas and experience of woodworking.
>
> Colin
>
>
You should probably hang around longer before kill filing any one. I
would say you might be a recent poster, I don't recall you being on this
group in the past few years. Many of us here have been here sine the
last millennium. And as we get older we kinda become less tolerant. and
go off on a tangent. ;~)
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 10:50:59 PM UTC-5, Colin Campbell wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:48:27 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
>
>
> > I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
> > repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those and
> > the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way to
> > "improve their brand"
> >
> > In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters) and
> > Trump offspring
>
> Looks like time to update the killfile: this kind of snide ad hominem
> bullshit is a complete waste of time, and totally out of place in an
> exchange of ideas and experience of woodworking.
>
> Colin
I assume that you are going to killfile those on both sides of that
conversation, right? You seemed to have snipped the original comment
that prompted that response. Wouldn't it be hypocritical to killfile
one, but not the other?
Hmmm...come to think of it, this entire thread is totally out of place
in an exchange of ideas and experience of woodworking. Your killfile
is going to wipe out more than a couple of the few people left that
actually discuss woodworking.
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 12:03:28 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
> work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
> casing is not wire...
See here:
https://www.doityourself.com/stry/nm-cable-vs-armored-cable
On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 09:48:56 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3/9/2019 9:38 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:47:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>>>> If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>>>>
>>>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>>>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>>
>>> While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
>>> used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator
>>> cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal
>>> conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and
>>> commensurate reduction in size/expense.
>>
>> Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
>> as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
>> boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
>
>Sounds that way, doesn't it? :)
>
>But is so.
>
>He is inflammable, true, but as a gas has lousy heat transfer properties
>in comparison and so is comparatively poor for the purpose. LIQUID He
>is used for superconducting applications, but that's not this
>application at all.
I think you meant "not-flammable". "Inflammable" doesn't mean what
you think it does. ;-)
No, not cryogenic He. He gas has great heat transfer properties, at
least for a gas. It has a very high mobility and is more massive than
H, so will transfer more per mole. We used it to fill electronics
modules for exactly that reason (and it was non-reactive).
>
>And, "no, I'm not making this up!" -- spent 30+ years, first in
>commercial nuclear generation and then transitioned over to fossil...
>
><https://www.power-eng.com/articles/print/volume-113/issue-6/features/hydrogen-cools-well-but-safety-is-crucial.html>
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 11:03:05 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/8/19 8:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
> >> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does=
it work.
> >>> What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >>>
> >>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-N=
on-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=
=C2=A0 The casing is
> >>> not wire...
> >>
> >> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of th=
e page
> >> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written =
ad.
> >> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of =
electricity?
> >> Who educates these people?
> >=20
> > Water
> >=20
>=20
> Since we're talking science.
> To the best of my knowledge, technically, water will not conduct=20
> electricity.
> That is, pure H2O. Tap water, like in a tub when someone drops the hair=
=20
> dryer in it before the advent of GFI circuits, would obviously conduct=20
> electricity and electrocute the poor soul in the tub.
> However, it's not the water that is passing the electrons. It's the=20
> minerals in the tap water.
> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.=
=20
> If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>=20
> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd=
=20
> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>=20
Sure *pure* water doesn't conduct electricity. However, I'm pretty sure tha=
t=20
it's a rare case that any of us are going to be near non-conductive water
and electricity at the same time. If I see water, I'm going to assume that
it will conduct. It's safer that way. ;-)
>
>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>> If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>
Our nuclear power plants use " heavy water " for that very reason -
so that gravity will assure that the short-circuit-current
will flow to ground .. With regular old tap water -
the electrons might go anywhere !
John T.
On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 12:52:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3/9/2019 11:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>...
>
>> No, not cryogenic He. He gas has great heat transfer properties, at
>> least for a gas. It has a very high mobility and is more massive than
>> H, so will transfer more per mole. We used it to fill electronics
>> modules for exactly that reason (and it was non-reactive).
>...
>
>Not in comparison to H, it doesn't, no...the heat transfer
>characteristics outweigh He enough to use it extensively despite the
>flammability for turbine-generator cooling.
>
>H conductivity is ~20% higher, but the molar heat capacity is almost
>double He and the density is roughly half so one gets much more heat
>transport out that wins the thermal efficiency battle handily.
>
>70% or so of all turbine-generators over 50-60 MWe wouldn't use H
>cooling if it weren't a marked advantage.
>
>I'm not aware of any using He altho there may well be a few.
He is a lot more difficult to come by, particularly in the quantities
that would be needed for large generators.
On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:47:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >...
> >
> >> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generator=
s.=20
> >> =C2=A0If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the gen=
erators.
> >>=20
> >> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3=
rd=20
> >> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
> >
> >While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)=20
> >used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator=
=20
> >cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal=
=20
> >conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and=20
> >commensurate reduction in size/expense.v
>=20
> Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
> as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
> boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
I don't know about that. I remember the time I called him an A-hole. He rea=
cted=20
rather violently. ;-)
On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 12:52:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3/9/2019 11:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>...
>
>> No, not cryogenic He. He gas has great heat transfer properties, at
>> least for a gas. It has a very high mobility and is more massive than
>> H, so will transfer more per mole. We used it to fill electronics
>> modules for exactly that reason (and it was non-reactive).
>...
>
>Not in comparison to H, it doesn't, no...the heat transfer
>characteristics outweigh He enough to use it extensively despite the
>flammability for turbine-generator cooling.
>
>H conductivity is ~20% higher, but the molar heat capacity is almost
>double He and the density is roughly half so one gets much more heat
>transport out that wins the thermal efficiency battle handily.
>
>70% or so of all turbine-generators over 50-60 MWe wouldn't use H
>cooling if it weren't a marked advantage.
Looking up the difference, I see that H is significantly better than
He at high temperature but not so much at lower temperatures. In
fact, H gets _much_ better at high temperature. Its lower mass really
shows up.
>I'm not aware of any using He altho there may well be a few.
Clare Snyder <[email protected]> wrote:
> I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
> repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those
> and the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way
> to "improve their brand"
>
> In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters) and
> Trump offspring
https://i.imgur.com/ikbFXCw.jpg
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:55:31 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
> > On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> > > I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does=
it work. =20
> > > What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> > >=20
> > > https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-N=
on-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=
=C2=A0 The casing is=20
> > > not wire...
> >=20
> > Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the=
page
> > they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written a=
d.
> > Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of e=
lectricity?
> > Who educates these people?
>=20
> Air (at high enough voltages)
>=20
> Ever heard of lightening?
Without the "e"? ;-)
On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 5:24:45 PM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-5, [email protected]
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
> >> as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
> >> boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
> >
> > I don't know about that. I remember the time I called him an A-hole.
> > He reacted rather violently. ;-)
> >
>
> Someone's written a lengthy article on his life:
> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hydrogen
>
Very nice!
On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> > I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does i=
t work. =20
> > What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
> >=20
> > https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non=
-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=C2=
=A0 The casing is=20
> > not wire...
>=20
> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the p=
age
> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of ele=
ctricity?
> Who educates these people?
Air (at high enough voltages)
Ever heard of lightening?
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 20:00:46 -0600, gray_wolf <g_wolf@howling_mad.com>
wrote:
>On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it work.
>> What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>
>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>
>>
>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The casing is
>> not wire...
>
>Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the page
>they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
>Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of electricity?
>Who educates these people?
graphite isn't bad - then there are conductive gasses and PLASMA
>>
>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>>> work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>>> casing is not wire...
>>
>>
>> The product category is " non metallic jacket wire"
>> shortened to " non metallic wire " in the product page.
>> John T.
>>
>
>Yeah, another example would be 2x4.
>
.. if you say so < ? >
John T.
On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does i=
t work. =20
> What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>=20
> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non=
-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433=20
>=20
>=20
> What am I missing?=C2=A0 Are they actually talking about the casing?=C2=
=A0 The casing is=20
> not wire...
Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the p=
age
they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.=
Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of ele=
ctricity?
Who educates these people?
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
>https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
>What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>casing is not wire...
It is non metallic sheathed cable by definiution - has copper
conductors. What do you expect af a big box store's description of
technical products???
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 12:25:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>>> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>
>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>
>>>
>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>>> casing is not wire...
>>
>> I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>> not metal.
>> There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>> when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>>
>> So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>>
>>
>
>Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>
>Probably another situation where those persons naming parts or
>describing something have no idea what the meaning of words are.
>
>Functionality, never needed to replace the word function. And for that
>matter, "almost any word that has had "ality" added in the last 10~12 years.
>
>Utilize, never needed to replace the word use.
>
>And while I am on the soap box, When did the word button start being
>pronounced but-in. Garden, now pronounced gar-din.
>
>Classic example of school no longer teaching students how to read the
>dictionary.
>
>All future left voters.
>
I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those
and the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way
to "improve their brand"
In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters) and
Trump offspring
On 3/9/2019 9:48 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 3/9/2019 9:38 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:47:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their
>>>> generators.
>>>> Â Â If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the
>>>> generators.
>>>>
>>>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the
>>>> 3rd
>>>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>>
>>> While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
>>> used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator
>>> cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal
>>> conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and
>>> commensurate reduction in size/expense.
>>
>> Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
>> as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
>> boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
>
> Sounds that way, doesn't it? :)
>
> But is so.
>
> He is inflammable, true, but as a gas has lousy heat transfer properties
> in comparison and so is comparatively poor for the purpose. LIQUID He
> is used for superconducting applications, but that's not this
> application at all.
>
> And, "no, I'm not making this up!" -- spent 30+ years, first in
> commercial nuclear generation and then transitioned over to fossil...
>
> <https://www.power-eng.com/articles/print/volume-113/issue-6/features/hydrogen-cools-well-but-safety-is-crucial.html>
Correction. Inflammable and flammable are synonyms. I believe the word
you're looking for is nonflammable.
On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:47:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>...
>
>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>> If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>>
>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>
>While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
>used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator
>cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal
>conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and
>commensurate reduction in size/expense.
Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 18:52:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
>> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>> > I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it work.
>> > What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>> >
>> > https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>> >
>> >
>> > What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The casing is
>> > not wire...
>>
>> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the page
>> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
>> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of electricity?
>> Who educates these people?
>
>Wate
actually, PURE water is a pretty lousy conductor - it is disolved
mineral salts that make it a reasonable conductor.
On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
> work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
>
> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
> casing is not wire...
I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
not metal.
There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:27:15 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
> Yeah, another example would be 2x4.
In my carpenter apprentice classes, it's neither 2 nor 4 but 38 x 89.
Shocked me to learn that the blade of my skill saw is 89mm from the edge
of the sole plate: it's been aqn inch and a half since Pontius was a
pilot.
On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:48:27 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
> I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
> repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those and
> the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way to
> "improve their brand"
>
> In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters) and
> Trump offspring
Looks like time to update the killfile: this kind of snide ad hominem
bullshit is a complete waste of time, and totally out of place in an
exchange of ideas and experience of woodworking.
Colin
On 3/8/19 8:42 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> gray_wolf <g_wolf@howling_mad.com> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of electricity?
>
> Graphite <https://www.youtube.com/embed/s9eE2jFoioM?autoplay=1&rel=0>
>
We used to draw out DC circuits in pencil to test them out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 3/8/19 8:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
>> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it work.
>>> What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>
>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>
>>>
>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The casing is
>>> not wire...
>>
>> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the page
>> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
>> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of electricity?
>> Who educates these people?
>
> Water
>
Since we're talking science.
To the best of my knowledge, technically, water will not conduct
electricity.
That is, pure H2O. Tap water, like in a tub when someone drops the hair
dryer in it before the advent of GFI circuits, would obviously conduct
electricity and electrocute the poor soul in the tub.
However, it's not the water that is passing the electrons. It's the
minerals in the tap water.
Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
largest power supplier in the US tells me.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 3/8/19 10:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 11:03:05 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/8/19 8:52 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:00:49 PM UTC-5, gray_wolf wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it work.
>>>>> What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The casing is
>>>>> not wire...
>>>>
>>>> Apparently they are talking about the casing. Down at the bottom of the page
>>>> they say Copper conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Poorly written ad.
>>>> Can anyone here name a non-metallic material that a good conductor of electricity?
>>>> Who educates these people?
>>>
>>> Water
>>>
>>
>> Since we're talking science.
>> To the best of my knowledge, technically, water will not conduct
>> electricity.
>> That is, pure H2O. Tap water, like in a tub when someone drops the hair
>> dryer in it before the advent of GFI circuits, would obviously conduct
>> electricity and electrocute the poor soul in the tub.
>> However, it's not the water that is passing the electrons. It's the
>> minerals in the tap water.
>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>> If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>>
>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>
>
> Sure *pure* water doesn't conduct electricity. However, I'm pretty sure that
> it's a rare case that any of us are going to be near non-conductive water
> and electricity at the same time. If I see water, I'm going to assume that
> it will conduct. It's safer that way. ;-)
>
He said water. :-p
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
...
> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
> Â If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>
> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator
cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal
conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and
commensurate reduction in size/expense.
--
On 3/9/2019 9:38 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:47:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>>> Â If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>>>
>>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>
>> While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
>> used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator
>> cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal
>> conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and
>> commensurate reduction in size/expense.
>
> Hydrogen sounds really dangerous around a generator (unless it's used
> as the fuel also). He is used as a coolant and, like water, won't go
> boom. He is as non-reactive as you can get.
Sounds that way, doesn't it? :)
But is so.
He is inflammable, true, but as a gas has lousy heat transfer properties
in comparison and so is comparatively poor for the purpose. LIQUID He
is used for superconducting applications, but that's not this
application at all.
And, "no, I'm not making this up!" -- spent 30+ years, first in
commercial nuclear generation and then transitioned over to fossil...
<https://www.power-eng.com/articles/print/volume-113/issue-6/features/hydrogen-cools-well-but-safety-is-crucial.html>
--
On 3/9/19 8:47 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> ...
>
>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their
>> generators. Â Â If that water conducted electricity, it would short out
>> the generators.
>>
>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the
>> 3rd largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>
> While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
> used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for generator
> cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat and thermal
> conductivity allows a significant improvement in efficiency and
> commensurate reduction in size/expense.
>
> --
Ok.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 3/9/19 10:32 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 3/9/2019 9:48 AM, dpb wrote:
>>
>
> Correction. Inflammable and flammable are synonyms. I believe the word
> you're looking for is nonflammable.
That always cracked me up.
I always have to remember inflammable means able to be inflamed.
I usually think of it as inflammable = in-flames.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 3/9/2019 11:06 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/9/19 8:47 AM, dpb wrote:
>> On 3/8/2019 10:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their
>>> generators. Â Â If that water conducted electricity, it would short out
>>> the generators.
>>>
>>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the
>>> 3rd largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>
>> While air, water and oil all have been (and still are in some cases)
>> used for cooling, modern large power generators use H gas for
>> generator cooling since its comparable low density, high specific heat
>> and thermal conductivity allows a significant improvement in
>> efficiency and commensurate reduction in size/expense.
>>
>> --
>
> Ok.
I remember being exceedingly surprised and amazed when I was first
introduced to this as a young'un not long out of school on first
exposure to the real plant environment as opposed to running reactor
core power distribution calculations for power peaking limits... :)
That was 50 year ago now at what was at the time the highest thermal
efficiency coal-fired generating station in the world...TVA's Bull Run
station just outside Oak Ridge, TN. It was one of the very first
super-critical steam cycle plants.
Had been to TVA HQ in Knoxville on sales/support mission for new nuclear
unit they were considering; they offered tour to a couple plant sites,
one of which was Bull Run, the other Sequoyah, a competitors' nuclear
station so I turned that one down and went to Bull Run instead. :)
--
On 3/9/2019 11:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
...
> No, not cryogenic He. He gas has great heat transfer properties, at
> least for a gas. It has a very high mobility and is more massive than
> H, so will transfer more per mole. We used it to fill electronics
> modules for exactly that reason (and it was non-reactive).
...
Not in comparison to H, it doesn't, no...the heat transfer
characteristics outweigh He enough to use it extensively despite the
flammability for turbine-generator cooling.
H conductivity is ~20% higher, but the molar heat capacity is almost
double He and the density is roughly half so one gets much more heat
transport out that wins the thermal efficiency battle handily.
70% or so of all turbine-generators over 50-60 MWe wouldn't use H
cooling if it weren't a marked advantage.
I'm not aware of any using He altho there may well be a few.
--
On 3/9/2019 12:52 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> 70% or so of all turbine-generators over 50-60 MWe wouldn't use H
> cooling if it weren't a marked advantage.
...
Which, of course, doesn't negate that it may be used for other
applications as your example.
Large central-station generating units are very large, very complex and
very expensive and the payback of a little extra efficiency is
sufficiently high they can afford the added complexity in handling H.
For other uses, the handling issues can easily be prohibitive.
--
On 3/9/2019 3:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Electric power plants use pure, distilled, H2O to cool their generators.
>>> Â If that water conducted electricity, it would short out the generators.
>>> At least, that's what my electrical engineer buddy who works for the 3rd
>>> largest power supplier in the US tells me.
>>>
>
> Our nuclear power plants use " heavy water " for that very reason -
> so that gravity will assure that the short-circuit-current
> will flow to ground .. With regular old tap water -
> the electrons might go anywhere !
> John T.
Chuckles...
--
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 16:22:49 -0600, Leon wrote:
> On 3/8/2019 9:50 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:48:27 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
>>> repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those
>>> and the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way
>>> to "improve their brand"
>>>
>>> In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters)
>>> and
>>> Trump offspring
>>
>> Looks like time to update the killfile: this kind of snide ad hominem
>> bullshit is a complete waste of time, and totally out of place in an
>> exchange of ideas and experience of woodworking.
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
> You should probably hang around longer before kill filing any one. I
> would say you might be a recent poster, I don't recall you being on this
> group in the past few years. Many of us here have been here sine the
> last millennium. And as we get older we kinda become less tolerant. and
> go off on a tangent. ;~)
You're probably right, Leon; the comments caught me crossways after a
long day, and I hit send before think. AAMOF, I've been following the NG
for 3-4 years, just don't have a lot to say. I figure 2 eyes, 2 ears and
only 1 mouth has to mean something.
Thanks for the nudge, Leon!
Colin
On 3/9/2019 9:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 12:52:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/9/2019 11:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> No, not cryogenic He. He gas has great heat transfer properties, at
>>> least for a gas. It has a very high mobility and is more massive than
>>> H, so will transfer more per mole. We used it to fill electronics
>>> modules for exactly that reason (and it was non-reactive).
>> ...
>>
>> Not in comparison to H, it doesn't, no...the heat transfer
>> characteristics outweigh He enough to use it extensively despite the
>> flammability for turbine-generator cooling.
>>
>> H conductivity is ~20% higher, but the molar heat capacity is almost
>> double He and the density is roughly half so one gets much more heat
>> transport out that wins the thermal efficiency battle handily.
...
> Looking up the difference, I see that H is significantly better than
> He at high temperature but not so much at lower temperatures. In
> fact, H gets _much_ better at high temperature. Its lower mass really
> shows up.
What I kept telling you... :)
I don't know what your definition of a "high" temperature is, but the
~2X factors occur by 200F or thereabouts.
Stator operating limits are just about there with typical alarm
setpoints at 110 C.
--
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does it
>work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>
>https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>
>What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>casing is not wire...
NM is the typical NEC abbreviation for Romex(brand)-style cabling.
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:47:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> > On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>> >> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>> >> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>> >>
>> >> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>> >> casing is not wire...
>> >
>> > I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>> > not metal.
>> > There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>> > when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>> >
>> > So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>>
>
>Interesting story (at least to me) about NM wire.
>
>I'm sure that most of us are familiar with the "cloth covered" NM wiring in
>older homes. You know, same concept as Romex, except that all the sheathing
>is cloth, not plastic. Well...
The original "romex" WAS the tar/paper/fabrick covered stuff.
>
>My godparents lived on Narragansett Blvd in Chicopee MA. (be sure to remember
>the name of that street) Their house was where I learned about knob-and-tube
>wiring as a teenager. I helped my godfather pull some new wires through the
>K&T fixtures. It was my first experience with house wiring.
>
>Fast forward a decade or so when I was about to buy my first house, a house
>located in western NY. While visiting my godparents they handed me a wad of
>cash to help with the down-payment.
>
>So, I move in and I'm getting ready to do some wiring work on my own house.
>A house that some nice folks that lived on Narragansett Blvd helped me buy.
>Narragansett Blvd, where I had my very first experience with house wiring.
>
>Imagine my surprise when I looked at the cloth covered NM wiring and noticed
>the name "Narragansett Wire Company" printed on the sheathing!
>
>That was a very spooky feeling!
>
On 3/8/2019 3:56 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 12:25:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> And while I am on the soap box, When did the word button start being
>>> pronounced but-in. Garden, now pronounced gar-din.
>>>
>>> Classic example of school no longer teaching students how to read the
>>> dictionary.
>
> Classic example of geographical variation, y'all.
>
LOL!!! That is short for you all. The words I have trouble with, I
don't recall hearing them pronounced that way 15+ years ago.
On 3/8/2019 8:48 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 12:25:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2019 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/8/19 11:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> I saw this and was wondering how long it has been around and how does
>>>> it work. What is it made out of to deliver electricity?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.lowesforpros.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-250-ft-12-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/1193433
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What am I missing? Are they actually talking about the casing? The
>>>> casing is not wire...
>>>
>>> I believe the Non-Metallic (NM) means the sheathing is made of plastic,
>>> not metal.
>>> There are times when it's required to have metal-sheathed wire and times
>>> when you can use Romex, non-metallic sheathed wire.
>>>
>>> So that's the designation. MC for metal clad, and NM for non-metallic.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Understood but it specifically says non metallic "wire". And I do not
>> ever recall Romex ever being called metallic or non metallic.
>>
>> Probably another situation where those persons naming parts or
>> describing something have no idea what the meaning of words are.
>>
>> Functionality, never needed to replace the word function. And for that
>> matter, "almost any word that has had "ality" added in the last 10~12 years.
>>
>> Utilize, never needed to replace the word use.
>>
>> And while I am on the soap box, When did the word button start being
>> pronounced but-in. Garden, now pronounced gar-din.
>>
>> Classic example of school no longer teaching students how to read the
>> dictionary.
>>
>> All future left voters.
>>
> I thought it was the inbread homeschooled backwoods southern
> repugnicans who couldn't read or write past a 3rd grade level. Those
> and the sons of rich new york mobsters that run for president as a way
> to "improve their brand"
>
> In other word - current "right" voters (or at least TRUMP voters) and
> Trump offspring
>
Could be some of them in there too but I'd be willing to bet it is
mostly those caught on Youtube boo-hooing like 5 year olds when they
learned that Trump won.
So it is getting worse on how words are being pronounced. Even Savannah
Guthrie on the Today show was saying but-in the other day, I don't
recall her saying it that way in the past. That word is like a sore
thumb every time I hear it. That and functionality.
It all falls in line with taking down Confederate flaga, statues,
excreta. Anything that reminds any one of a past they would like to forget.
The problem with that is that if you do not study the past/history you
are bound to repeat it. Burning books will be next.