Jim wrote:
>
> I heard that there will be a Titebond III out next year. This is a one
> part, water proof, glue. Has anyone else heard this?
>
> Jim
Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
charlie b
charlieb asks:
> Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
> hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
> won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
IIRC, Franklin put TII out as a waterproof glue, but quickly relabeled when
they discovered it wouldn't hold up under complete immersion, which seems to be
the definition of waterproof.
To me, it appears that waterproof glue must hold up under freshwater marine
application below the waterline. Sensible, I guess, even if almost no one makes
wooden boats with glued planks any more. Laminated plywoods?
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
That is Quite a Mis-statement,
There are more wooden boats being built than you think,
Pick up a copy of "Wooden Boat Mag" also by Taunten Press
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> charlieb asks:
>
> > Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
> > hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
> > won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
>
> IIRC, Franklin put TII out as a waterproof glue, but quickly relabeled
when
> they discovered it wouldn't hold up under complete immersion, which seems
to be
> the definition of waterproof.
>
> To me, it appears that waterproof glue must hold up under freshwater
marine
> application below the waterline. Sensible, I guess, even if almost no one
makes
> wooden boats with glued planks any more. Laminated plywoods?
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of
itself. "
> Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
George M. Kazaka responds:
>
>That is Quite a Mis-statement,
>There are more wooden boats being built than you think,
>Pick up a copy of "Wooden Boat Mag" also by Taunten Press
>
Unless things have changed tremendously, Wooden Boat Magazine is put out by
Wooden Boat in Maine, with no relationship whatsoever to Taunton Press. My kid
sister worked for them for years, and it is a wonderful outfit. The also have
Wooden Boat schools, which are also superb.
That said, there is damned little misstatement in my response. There are
relatively few (compared to, say, fiberglass) boats being built, and a great
many use marine plywood (laminate) while any REAL need for below-the-waterline
water proof wood glues is minimal.
After I thought about it a bit, I realized that damned few wooden boats were
built with glued up planks, anyway. Most nailed or screwed in place, IIRC.
Oh, yeah. They're not freshwater, either. Their buildings are on property that
slides right into the bay so small boats are readily launched there, after
being bult there.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
On 23-Nov-2003, [email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
> That said, there is damned little misstatement in my response. There are
> relatively few (compared to, say, fiberglass) boats being built, and a great
> many use marine plywood (laminate) while any REAL need for below-the-waterline
> water proof wood glues is minimal.
I'd agree with George that you may be underestimating the number of wood boats
being constructed. While there are relatively fewer big boats in wood compared
to modern materials, there are _lots_ of small boats being built. Canoes,
kayaks, dingies (sail or otherwise) are more likely built of wood than any other
material if built non-commercially. There is at least one significant use of
below-the-waterline glue - scarfing up keels and such. Long pieces of clear
wood are getting harder to get and most boat makers live by epoxy - the only
waterproof glue worth anything today. Paddles and oars also need waterproof
glue, though some water resistant ones suffice.
Mike
But most of never have need for epoxy on a large scale. We onl;y use
it for small projects. Besides, I couldn't afford much of it.
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:19:14 GMT, "Michael Daly"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 23-Nov-2003, [email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
>
>> That said, there is damned little misstatement in my response. There are
>> relatively few (compared to, say, fiberglass) boats being built, and a great
>> many use marine plywood (laminate) while any REAL need for below-the-waterline
>> water proof wood glues is minimal.
>
>I'd agree with George that you may be underestimating the number of wood boats
>being constructed. While there are relatively fewer big boats in wood compared
>to modern materials, there are _lots_ of small boats being built. Canoes,
>kayaks, dingies (sail or otherwise) are more likely built of wood than any other
>material if built non-commercially. There is at least one significant use of
>below-the-waterline glue - scarfing up keels and such. Long pieces of clear
>wood are getting harder to get and most boat makers live by epoxy - the only
>waterproof glue worth anything today. Paddles and oars also need waterproof
>glue, though some water resistant ones suffice.
>
>Mike
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> charlieb asks:
>
> > Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
> > hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
> > won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
>
> IIRC, Franklin put TII out as a waterproof glue, but quickly relabeled
when
> they discovered it wouldn't hold up under complete immersion, which seems
to be
> the definition of waterproof.
Titebond II is WEATHER Proof.
Oh contraire, Mon firer . . .
WoodenBoat Magazine has been called "Porn for Boatbuilders".
The " . most of us . . ." referred to have more money/tools/space/time
involved in that little 'birdfeeder' they just built, or the backyard bench
set. {Wasn't it on these 'pages' that there was a recent discussion on which
wood to use for that project ? Anybody note how many suggested '2x' Teak,
Sitka Spruce, Cypress, etc.?}'2x' Western Cedar from Home Depot was
considered 'to pedestrian', and 'Philippine Mahogany' - isn't *REAL*
Mahogany.
The thinking should be to 'use the tool/material that does the job best'.
Most small boats, whether 'fiberglass coated' or not, have wooded
components. If they are made to the 'Standard' type of plan, there will be
various Cleats, Chine Logs, Inwales, Outwales, etc. that need to be secured.
Titebond II suits admirably. Epoxy is the material of choice {along with the
proper 'fillers' that cause it to become an adhesive} for hulls & finish
coatings.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Charlie is generally speaking; most of us are not in the income
> bracket it takes to buy a wooden boat. And most of the rest of us
> don't want one. I agree with Charlie.
>
>
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:17:30 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >That is Quite a Mis-statement,
> >There are more wooden boats being built than you think,
> >Pick up a copy of "Wooden Boat Mag" also by Taunten Press
I was at the Wooden Boat show in Rockland, Maine this past July. If
you'd have been there you'd be convinced that wooden boats are quite
prevalent.
Boden
George M. Kazaka wrote:
> That is Quite a Mis-statement,
> There are more wooden boats being built than you think,
> Pick up a copy of "Wooden Boat Mag" also by Taunten Press
>
>
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>charlieb asks:
>>
>>
>>> Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
>>> hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
>>> won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
>>
>>IIRC, Franklin put TII out as a waterproof glue, but quickly relabeled
>
> when
>
>>they discovered it wouldn't hold up under complete immersion, which seems
>
> to be
>
>>the definition of waterproof.
>>
>>To me, it appears that waterproof glue must hold up under freshwater
>
> marine
>
>>application below the waterline. Sensible, I guess, even if almost no one
>
> makes
>
>>wooden boats with glued planks any more. Laminated plywoods?
>>
>>Charlie Self
>>
>>"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of
>
> itself. "
>
>>Ronald Reagan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
EL writes:
>I was at the Wooden Boat show in Rockland, Maine this past July. If
>you'd have been there you'd be convinced that wooden boats are quite
>prevalent.
>
>Boden
Jeez. I wrote that compared to other types of boats, tehre are far fewer wooden
boats, and that few used glued up boards...I later wrote that few had EVER used
glued up boards. It has zip to do with prevalence in one area or another. Check
out the lakes of your local area where the bass boats roam and coun the number
of 40K candy-glass-uglies floating around. Saw one yesterday that had the wheel
covers on the trailer the same colors and patterns as the boat, and six times
as large as they needed to be.
Fact remains, compared to other kinds of boats, there are far fewer wooden
boats built. That fact does not have a damned thing to do with a total lack of
wooden boats and their builders.
Please read the entire series, particularly the starting point, before making
comments. It is far less irritating.
Charlie Self
"Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the
frog dies of it." E. B. White
Charlie is generally speaking; most of us are not in the income
bracket it takes to buy a wooden boat. And most of the rest of us
don't want one. I agree with Charlie.
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:17:30 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>That is Quite a Mis-statement,
>There are more wooden boats being built than you think,
>Pick up a copy of "Wooden Boat Mag" also by Taunten Press
>
>
>"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> charlieb asks:
>>
>> > Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
>> > hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
>> > won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
>>
>> IIRC, Franklin put TII out as a waterproof glue, but quickly relabeled
>when
>> they discovered it wouldn't hold up under complete immersion, which seems
>to be
>> the definition of waterproof.
>>
>> To me, it appears that waterproof glue must hold up under freshwater
>marine
>> application below the waterline. Sensible, I guess, even if almost no one
>makes
>> wooden boats with glued planks any more. Laminated plywoods?
>>
>> Charlie Self
>>
>> "I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of
>itself. "
>> Ronald Reagan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
No arguement that the top boat builders are also some of the Master
Woodworkers in the US. They work with the ultimate weather-tested
products. Nothing else has to withstand the weather like a boat. Most
of us are not in that category because we don't have the time/money.
I admire them )boat builders) but they are over my head in knowledge
so I appreciate what they have to offer. But I also know I won't be
involved in any projects as complicated or demanding as boat building.
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:50:38 GMT, "Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Oh contraire, Mon firer . . .
>
>WoodenBoat Magazine has been called "Porn for Boatbuilders".
>
>The " . most of us . . ." referred to have more money/tools/space/time
>involved in that little 'birdfeeder' they just built, or the backyard bench
>set. {Wasn't it on these 'pages' that there was a recent discussion on which
>wood to use for that project ? Anybody note how many suggested '2x' Teak,
>Sitka Spruce, Cypress, etc.?}'2x' Western Cedar from Home Depot was
>considered 'to pedestrian', and 'Philippine Mahogany' - isn't *REAL*
>Mahogany.
>
>The thinking should be to 'use the tool/material that does the job best'.
>Most small boats, whether 'fiberglass coated' or not, have wooded
>components. If they are made to the 'Standard' type of plan, there will be
>various Cleats, Chine Logs, Inwales, Outwales, etc. that need to be secured.
>Titebond II suits admirably. Epoxy is the material of choice {along with the
>proper 'fillers' that cause it to become an adhesive} for hulls & finish
>coatings.
>
>Regards & Good Luck,
>Ron Magen
>Backyard Boatshop
>
>
>"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Charlie is generally speaking; most of us are not in the income
>> bracket it takes to buy a wooden boat. And most of the rest of us
>> don't want one. I agree with Charlie.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:17:30 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >That is Quite a Mis-statement,
>> >There are more wooden boats being built than you think,
>> >Pick up a copy of "Wooden Boat Mag" also by Taunten Press
>
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Titebond II says it's for exterior use which sounds like it will
> hold if it gets rained or snowed on. By waterproof do you mean it
> won't be dissolved or weakened by water soaking?
>
> charlie b
Water Proof would indeed mean that it won't be weakened by water soaking.
Titebond II is currently Weather Proof but not Water Proof.