Hi All.
I am practicing making through dovetails and they seem to come out
more or less fine ( rather less ) but not perfect, actually far from
perfect. I am using relatively large ryoba and really feel that this
saw does not give me enough control particularly at the beginning of
the cut as it have quite large teeth and about 10 tpi. So, as you can
guess I am in a business of shopping for some real dovetail saw. I
have set my mind on dozuky but after looking around on internet I got
a bit confused about appropriate tpi for such saw. I can already see
that 10 tpi is not good enough. Particularly I have question about
this one http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper
picture labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' it has only
13 tpi. Would this saw be fine? Woodcraft, for example, has some
dozukies with 26 tpi. What do you recommend?
Thanks,
Dmitri
Dmitri asks:
>ut after looking around on internet I got
>a bit confused about appropriate tpi for such saw. I can already see
>that 10 tpi is not good enough. Particularly I have question about
>this one http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper
>picture labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' it has only
>13 tpi. Would this saw be fine? Woodcraft, for example, has some
>dozukies with 26 tpi. What do you recommend?
Lee Valley's dovetail saw has 17 tpi, and the also carry the Pax, with 20. I
get good results with the Lee Valley. YMMV.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
It kind of depends. In an issue of some WWing mag that compared
Japanese and western DT saws, a seller of Japanese tools -- Japan
Woodworker I think -- said Japanese WWers prefer the cut to be rough
when cutting dovetails. This allows the rough wood fibers to help bind
the joint with a minimal amount of glue. American WWers tend to like a
smooth cut when cutting DTs.
There's no right or wrong as long as your joints look good. :-)
However, if you're having trouble starting your cuts with the larger
teeth you may want to try starting the cut with the smaller teeth of
the xcut side of your ryoba and then turn the saw over and use the rip
teeth to cut through the rest. I do this all the time.
Layne
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:39:59 -0800, Dmitri <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi All.
>
>I am practicing making through dovetails and they seem to come out
>more or less fine ( rather less ) but not perfect, actually far from
>perfect. I am using relatively large ryoba and really feel that this
>saw does not give me enough control particularly at the beginning of
>the cut as it have quite large teeth and about 10 tpi. So, as you can
>guess I am in a business of shopping for some real dovetail saw. I
>have set my mind on dozuky but after looking around on internet I got
>a bit confused about appropriate tpi for such saw. I can already see
>that 10 tpi is not good enough. Particularly I have question about
>this one http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper
>picture labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' it has only
>13 tpi. Would this saw be fine? Woodcraft, for example, has some
>dozukies with 26 tpi. What do you recommend?
>
>Thanks,
>Dmitri
>
My L/N Independence saw is 15 tpi and does a great job. I prefer the
Western saws. :-)
"Dmitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Layne wrote:
> > It kind of depends. In an issue of some WWing mag that compared
> > Japanese and western DT saws, a seller of Japanese tools -- Japan
> > Woodworker I think -- said Japanese WWers prefer the cut to be rough
> > when cutting dovetails. This allows the rough wood fibers to help bind
> > the joint with a minimal amount of glue. American WWers tend to like a
> > smooth cut when cutting DTs.
> >
> > There's no right or wrong as long as your joints look good. :-)
> > However, if you're having trouble starting your cuts with the larger
> > teeth you may want to try starting the cut with the smaller teeth of
> > the xcut side of your ryoba and then turn the saw over and use the rip
> > teeth to cut through the rest. I do this all the time.
>
> My crosscut side of ryoba has bigger set on teeth. So, that does not
> seem to work and I am not sure I want to change set.
>
> --
> Dmitri
>
The set may be wider but the teeth are smaller, no? The smaller teeth
are able to start the cut easier. You definately don't want to alter
the set of the teeth. The teeth on Japanese saws are harder and thus
more brittle. You could risk breaking the teeth if you try to alter
the set if you don't know what you're doing. Also, the set on Japanese
saws (even mass produced ones) are typically more precise than that of
typical American and British saws you get at the local hardware store.
But, if you're having touble cutting DTs you might want to get a
smaller saw. A ryoba is designed for bigger, rougher cuts. You can use
it for bigger DT work, like say carpentry. Check out
www.japanwoodwoker.com for some moderately priced dozuki saws with
xcut teeth or rip teeth to use on finer work.
Layne
usual disclaimers apply
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:14:16 -0800, Dmitri <[email protected]>
wrote:
>My crosscut side of ryoba has bigger set on teeth. So, that does not
>seem to work and I am not sure I want to change set.
>
>--
>Dmitri
>
(Layne) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The set may be wider but the teeth are smaller, no? The smaller teeth
> are able to start the cut easier. You definately don't want to alter
> the set of the teeth. The teeth on Japanese saws are harder and thus
> more brittle. You could risk breaking the teeth if you try to alter
> the set if you don't know what you're doing. Also, the set on Japanese
> saws (even mass produced ones) are typically more precise than that of
> typical American and British saws you get at the local hardware store.
>
> But, if you're having touble cutting DTs you might want to get a
> smaller saw. A ryoba is designed for bigger, rougher cuts. You can use
> it for bigger DT work, like say carpentry. Check out
> www.japanwoodwoker.com for some moderately priced dozuki saws with
> xcut teeth or rip teeth to use on finer work.
I'd second this advice. I used a mini-dozuki panel saw (see
http://www3.woodcraft.com/Saws/woodworking/4237.htm) for several years
before I plunked down the bucks for the L-N IT saw. It has a
reasonable set, good tpi and I found it to be a good size for doing
fine work. It's probably optimal for cutting in softwoods, but will
still do the job in hardwood.
Currently I usually use my L-N saw, but every so often I'll pick up
the dozuki, and it still seems to do the job just fine. The style of
handle makes it more prone to wander off vertical than the Western
style (IME), but it still is a very good saw, and will outperform most
any Western saw you can find for the money (unless you are talking
about old saws, but that's a whole different thread).
Chuck Vance
On Sat 29 Nov 2003 02:55:05a, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Lee Valley's dovetail saw has 17 tpi, and the also carry the Pax, with
> 20. I get good results with the Lee Valley. YMMV.
Yeah, I'll go with Charlie. My first dovetail wasn't a Ryoba, it was a
cheapo from one of the big boxes but I had the same problem you did.
Getting that cut started right was just about impossible. I splurged the 16
bucks or so for the basic Lee Valley Gent's saw at Woodcraft and the
difference was dramatic. Lovely little saw.
I suppose I should mention that it didn't turn me into a master dovetail
cutter. I guess you have to buy the more expensive saws for that...
Dan
Hi, Dmitri,
I use a dozuki for fine jointing work. Some people may quibble that a
dozuki is optimised for crosscutting in softwoods:- although ideally a
dovetail saw should have teeth designed for ripping, you're not cutting very
far, so it doesn't really signify.
I've come to prefer my Japanese saws to any of my Western ones, which seem
clumsy in comparison They're not really resharpenable unless you have
special feather files and eyes like a hawk, but if you treat them well,
they'll last for years on this type of work
HTH
Frank
"Dmitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All.
>
> I am practicing making through dovetails and they seem to come out
> more or less fine ( rather less ) but not perfect, actually far from
> perfect. I am using relatively large ryoba and really feel that this
> saw does not give me enough control particularly at the beginning of
> the cut as it have quite large teeth and about 10 tpi. So, as you can
> guess I am in a business of shopping for some real dovetail saw. I
> have set my mind on dozuky but after looking around on internet I got
> a bit confused about appropriate tpi for such saw. I can already see
> that 10 tpi is not good enough. Particularly I have question about
> this one http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper
> picture labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' it has only
> 13 tpi. Would this saw be fine? Woodcraft, for example, has some
> dozukies with 26 tpi. What do you recommend?
>
> Thanks,
> Dmitri
>
Layne wrote:
> It kind of depends. In an issue of some WWing mag that compared
> Japanese and western DT saws, a seller of Japanese tools -- Japan
> Woodworker I think -- said Japanese WWers prefer the cut to be rough
> when cutting dovetails. This allows the rough wood fibers to help bind
> the joint with a minimal amount of glue. American WWers tend to like a
> smooth cut when cutting DTs.
>
> There's no right or wrong as long as your joints look good. :-)
> However, if you're having trouble starting your cuts with the larger
> teeth you may want to try starting the cut with the smaller teeth of
> the xcut side of your ryoba and then turn the saw over and use the rip
> teeth to cut through the rest. I do this all the time.
My crosscut side of ryoba has bigger set on teeth. So, that does not
seem to work and I am not sure I want to change set.
--
Dmitri
Layne wrote:
> The set may be wider but the teeth are smaller, no? The smaller teeth
> are able to start the cut easier. You definately don't want to alter
> the set of the teeth. The teeth on Japanese saws are harder and thus
> more brittle. You could risk breaking the teeth if you try to alter
> the set if you don't know what you're doing. Also, the set on Japanese
> saws (even mass produced ones) are typically more precise than that of
> typical American and British saws you get at the local hardware store.
>
> But, if you're having touble cutting DTs you might want to get a
> smaller saw. A ryoba is designed for bigger, rougher cuts. You can use
> it for bigger DT work, like say carpentry. Check out
> www.japanwoodwoker.com for some moderately priced dozuki saws with
> xcut teeth or rip teeth to use on finer work.
I could use cross-cut side of the ryoba of course but the ryoba itself
does not have back support and flatters left and right a bit. Dozuki
must be an appropriate saw for cutting dovetails. But my question was
more about tpi. This saw
http://hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mripdozuki.html on upper picture
labeled 'Special hardwood ripcut dovetail saw' has only 13 tpi. Would
this saw be appropriate for cutting perfect or nearly perfect (that is
what I set me mind on, perfect dovetail) :) dovetails?
--
Dmitri