Heirloom furniture with plywood?

Sat, Aug 30, 2003, 10:24pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (jm) who is
honest enough to admit:
Let me say upfront. I don't know what makes a piece of furniture
valuable

Judging from by most of what I've seen listed for big bucks, it
usually means finding a sucker, with money.

or an "heirloom."

This is usually misused. Here is what the dictionary says:
heirloom n 1: (law) any property that is considered by law or custom as
inseparable from an inheritance is inherited with that inheritance 2:
something that has been in a family for generations

But I bought this months edition of Woodsmith and in it is a plan for a
chest of drawers with the casing made of plywood. There were other items
with plywood also.
Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom
have a solid wood base and case?

As far as plywood, here is a partial quote:
Bent Ply is the first book devoted to plywood in modern design. It
consists of two parts: the first, an illustrated history of plywood
(tracing its origins to ancient Egypt, circa 2900 BC);
Quoted from here: http://www.nzia.co.nz/site/story.asp?bid=0&storyid=847

I don't figure you get much more antiquey then old Egyptian
furniture, it's usually pretty fancy too. Way I figure it, if the
people that made the stuff that are antiques today had plyowod, they
would have used it, same as electricity and power tools, instead of hand
tools.

Doesn't plywood make it "cheap.

Not judging by what some people charge. And, price some antique
Egyptian furniture.

" Sorry if this offends some of you.

Maybe some of the too tight people, but who cares about them?
Not me, I like plywood. They made bombers and PT boats from it in WWII,
and you can make anything from a yacht to fine furniture with it. Great
stuff.

I really just am curious if solid wood could be used as a substitute for
the plywood an give it real lasting value.

It would have snob appeal anyway, but yes, some times solid wood
could be sutstituted, other times plywood would be more appropriate.
Depends.

But I am sure that would make it cost much more to build. How much I
don't know.

If it's cost that stops you, then use more inexpensive materials,
or make smaller projects. Find something that sells, make enough money
to buy more materials, more expensive materials, and go from there.
Anyway, it's a Hell of a lot cheaper to make somehing you have never
made, and make some mistakes, out of poplar, or some other relatively
inexpensive wood, then to try the same thing out of expensive wood, and
then screw it up.

JOAT
No sense in being pessimistic - it wouldn't work anyway.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 30 Aug 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Ever seen an antique, museum piece with veneered sides and top? The basic
principles are virtually identical with using ply's of wood (plywood) to
gain dimensional stability on certain parts or assemblies, particularly when
adding inlay patterns.

IMO, quality plywood, properly cut and correctly used, in no way cheapens a
piece any more than "veneer" does.

I just finished a walnut coffee table for a customer. The top, eight sided,
has a 1/4" strip of cherry between the 1/2" thick walnut edge and the walnut
plywood top. It would have been very difficult to make this work without the
dimensional stability of a plywood or veneered top. A solid wood top would
just about guarantee gaps in the "inlay" at the joints within the first
year.

There is undoubtedly much value in the material, but a "solid wood" piece
that falls apart in 10 years will have no value, regardless of the material.

BTW, be careful what you call "solid wood" ... most furniture stores class
plywood as "solid wood" these days, just as they would veneer.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/24/03


"jm" wrote in message
> Let me say upfront. I don't know what makes a piece of furniture valuable
> or an "heirloom." But I bought this months edition of Woodsmith and in it
> is a plan for a chest of drawers with the casing made of plywood. There
> were other items with plywood also.
>
> Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom
have
> a solid wood base and case? Doesn't plywood make it "cheap." Sorry if
this
> offends some of you. I really just am curious if solid wood could be used
> as a substitute for the plywood an give it real lasting value. But I am
> sure that would make it cost much more to build. How much I don't know.

Hi John

Well, if you mean to say the heirloom in the sense built as they use
to build it - then yes, using a plywood is a no no. If that's not
what you mean, plywood - typically veneer plywood - can be the better
wood choice to make. Plywood doesn't change its dimension as much as
real wood (being made up of wood in different orientations - the
expansion/contractions kind of cancel out)- is more stable (since you
would probably have to glue up pieces to make the sizable panels) -
and per board ft, probably cost less. So, you can make a better piece
of furnitue, that will probably outlive you, and become the heirloom
piece in your family.

I just made a coffe table, and I choosed a glue'd up oak for the top,
pretty much veeneer plywood for the rest. Even, as I made it, the top
was warping a little bit, while the plywood was as flat as can be. I
edged the plywood with oak strips, and I think it looks pretty good.

I didn't do any of that fancy "floating" joinery where you let the
wood more or less float on top of the rest of the table - using "break
board" edges and oblong screwholes to let the wood expand. I'm half
expecting to see that top - pop off one of these days as its only
dadoe and glued to the rest of the table. So, well see how good the
"real wood" does.

At my level of comfort and expertise, I stick with solid wood for the
small parts or "show" part and plywood for the rest.

The advantage of plywood lies in ease of design and construction, not
necessarily price. For example, I can get solid 4/4 walnut cheaper than 3/4
walnut plywood. But then I have to design for wood movement with solid
wood. Good plywood furniture can be more durable than poorly designed solid
wood furniture. But I do use solid wood for really fine furniture.
However, most customers want plywood because of labor costs. Plywood goes
together much faster. harrym

"jm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Su94b.309637$Ho3.43463@sccrnsc03...
> Let me say upfront. I don't know what makes a piece of furniture valuable
> or an "heirloom." But I bought this months edition of Woodsmith and in it
> is a plan for a chest of drawers with the casing made of plywood. There
> were other items with plywood also.
>
> Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom
have
> a solid wood base and case? Doesn't plywood make it "cheap." Sorry if
this
> offends some of you. I really just am curious if solid wood could be used
> as a substitute for the plywood an give it real lasting value. But I am
> sure that would make it cost much more to build. How much I don't know.
>
> Thanks for commenting.
>
>

For entertainment centers, I use plywood for the carcase. And, I guess a
well built piece of furniture made with plywood could be passed on to future
generations and be considered of high quality, but it doesn't quite have the
look and feel of solid wood. Personally, for furniture, if it is for
myself, or the person who commissioned it is willing to pay extra, it is
always solid wood.

Preston
"jm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Su94b.309637$Ho3.43463@sccrnsc03...
> Let me say upfront. I don't know what makes a piece of furniture valuable
> or an "heirloom." But I bought this months edition of Woodsmith and in it
> is a plan for a chest of drawers with the casing made of plywood. There
> were other items with plywood also.
>
> Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom
have
> a solid wood base and case? Doesn't plywood make it "cheap." Sorry if
this
> offends some of you. I really just am curious if solid wood could be used
> as a substitute for the plywood an give it real lasting value. But I am
> sure that would make it cost much more to build. How much I don't know.
>
> Thanks for commenting.
>
>

Heck man if you had a piece of paper towel that was your great great great
great grandfathers, wouldnt it be priceless to you and your family? That's
what makes it valuable. What if George washington made a dresser out of
plywood. Heck yeah it'd be valuable.

Sam

"jm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Su94b.309637$Ho3.43463@sccrnsc03...
> Let me say upfront. I don't know what makes a piece of furniture valuable
> or an "heirloom." But I bought this months edition of Woodsmith and in it
> is a plan for a chest of drawers with the casing made of plywood. There
> were other items with plywood also.
>
> Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom
have
> a solid wood base and case? Doesn't plywood make it "cheap." Sorry if
this
> offends some of you. I really just am curious if solid wood could be used
> as a substitute for the plywood an give it real lasting value. But I am
> sure that would make it cost much more to build. How much I don't know.
>
> Thanks for commenting.
>
>

Heck, in 20 years, anything from this era not made of particle board
will
be considered an heirloom ha ha ha.. I mean, solid wood furniture
kicks ass, most definitely, but there's some nice things I've made
from plywood. Shouldn't the goal be to make yourself happy? Isn't
that what this hobby is all about. Instead of worrying about what
others think, how about going down to the shop tonight and kicking
some plywood ass! Have fun with it. Who cares
if people admire your work after you're dead?




"jm" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Su94b.309637$Ho3.43463@sccrnsc03>...
> Let me say upfront. I don't know what makes a piece of furniture valuable
> or an "heirloom." But I bought this months edition of Woodsmith and in it
> is a plan for a chest of drawers with the casing made of plywood. There
> were other items with plywood also.
>
> Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom have
> a solid wood base and case? Doesn't plywood make it "cheap." Sorry if this
> offends some of you. I really just am curious if solid wood could be used
> as a substitute for the plywood an give it real lasting value. But I am
> sure that would make it cost much more to build. How much I don't know.
>
> Thanks for commenting.

I used to think heirloom meant solid wood only, and that's how I build
'furniture' (i.e., shop cabinets are plywood all the way). We may
equate heirloom to solid wood because that's what's available. A
hundred or two years from now, heirloom may equal plywood if
everything else is made from MDF.

However, I got a chest of drawers that was made in my
great-grandfather's lumber mill, I'd guess 1930s (my dad didn't know)
and it has plywood back and drawer bottoms. I consider it an
heirloom piece because of the family history.

So maybe if you plan to hand it down to your descendants, looks will
matter over materials. If you want it to sell for high $ in the
antiques market ;0) it'll have to be solid wood to be heirloom.

Either way you won't be around to know what folks think of your
handiwork, so build what you think is best.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ever seen an antique, museum piece with veneered sides and top? The basic
> principles are virtually identical with using ply's of wood (plywood) to
> gain dimensional stability on certain parts or assemblies, particularly
when
> adding inlay patterns.
>
> IMO, quality plywood, properly cut and correctly used, in no way cheapens
a
> piece any more than "veneer" does.
>
> I just finished a walnut coffee table for a customer. The top, eight
sided,
> has a 1/4" strip of cherry between the 1/2" thick walnut edge and the
walnut
> plywood top. It would have been very difficult to make this work without
the
> dimensional stability of a plywood or veneered top. A solid wood top would
> just about guarantee gaps in the "inlay" at the joints within the first
> year.
>
> There is undoubtedly much value in the material, but a "solid wood" piece
> that falls apart in 10 years will have no value, regardless of the
material.

This is a good point. If it isn't there, what good is it?


> BTW, be careful what you call "solid wood" ... most furniture stores class
> plywood as "solid wood" these days, just as they would veneer.

I guess when I picture plywood I see some nasty stuff from Home Depot next
to the two by fours. Is the plywood used in furniture different from "that"
stack? (I know there are several stacks, but I hope you understand what I
mean.)

jm wrote:

> Doesn't "real" fancy furniture that becomes and anitque or and heirloom

I just confirmed that the definition of "antique" means something at least
100 years old. I don't have any "antiques" but I have a lot of heirloom
furniture passed down from various relatives, some still living, some not.

My bedroom furniture is some pretty garish stuff, and I have no idea whether
it was considered "fancy" or "cheap" in its day, but I can imagine that
furniture like this would be exhorbitantly expensive today. Dovetails,
wooden drawer glides, and similar details are typical.

The headboard, night stands, dresser and chifferobe are all feature a curved
front panel that's made out of kerfed, veneered plywood. All the pieces
are veneered with primarily mahogany (I'm guessing), with bits and pieces
of other colorful woods inlaid in intricate but ugly patterns. Under this
layer, there's another band of fake black and yellow burlish looking stuff
that is a *decal*. If you look closely, you can see the dots of ink. The
pulls are all brass plated pot metal with amber plastic inserts, and the
mirror had bands of inlaid amber colored mirrors that had fallen out.

I know how the curves are made because the veneer was peeling off the
footboard rather horribly. I removed it and tried to glue some red oak
veneer onto it (because red oak was available) and boy did that turn out
horrible. One of these days I have to figure out how to match the mahogany
or whatever, figure out how to get all that stupid contact cement off of
the thing, and re-do it right. Or else accidentally throw it all away.

I have no idea exactly how old it is, who made it, how expensive it was, or
where it was purchased. It belonged to my great aunt. By the look of the
stuff, I would guess it was made during one of America's most tasteless
periods, though it might have been manufactured during a time when people
were making cheap imitations of furniture from that period out of
nostalgia, much as hideous hip huggers are being worn by kids today. (I
have yet to see a female posterior that's the slightest bit attractive when
clad in those damnable things.)

Anyway, call it '50s at the young end, and maybe '20s at the old end. It's
a lot older than I am either way, and while it is well put-together, it's
definitely made from non-solid materials. There's nothing solid about the
stuff.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17445 Approximate word count: 523350
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/