MS

"Mike S."

18/04/2004 1:51 AM

question on white vs red oak

We went up to St. Louis today and went by Rockler to pick up some supplies.
While there we asked about their new Mission Gel stain. We were showed some
QS white oak boards that were treated with this stain and SWMBO loved the
look. When we got home I checked my price list from a place I buy my rough
lumber from and they only listed red oak and white oak. The white oak was 52
cents cheaper. Figure I'd ask the group if they know why. Is the white oak
more abundant? Does regular cut white oak look crappy ? They don't have QS
white oak listed. I think it's a special order thing. The only wood I've
worked with since graduating from pine is red oak.
Thanks

--
Mike S.
[email protected]
http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm


This topic has 17 replies

tf

"todd"

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

17/04/2004 9:00 PM

"Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We went up to St. Louis today and went by Rockler to pick up some
supplies.
> While there we asked about their new Mission Gel stain. We were showed
some
> QS white oak boards that were treated with this stain and SWMBO loved the
> look. When we got home I checked my price list from a place I buy my rough
> lumber from and they only listed red oak and white oak. The white oak was
52
> cents cheaper. Figure I'd ask the group if they know why. Is the white oak
> more abundant? Does regular cut white oak look crappy ? They don't have QS
> white oak listed. I think it's a special order thing. The only wood I've
> worked with since graduating from pine is red oak.
> Thanks
>
> --
> Mike S.
> [email protected]
> http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm

Personally, I like the look of white oak vs. red oak. My local place
charges (for 4/4 S2S) $3.75 for WO and $3.59 for RO. QSWO goes for $5.78
and QSRO gets $5.55.

todd

BR

"Bernard Randall"

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 12:37 AM


"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:51:14 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> -snip-

> Get the free "Finishing Touch" CD from the Hardwood Council at
>
> http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/contact/default.asp
>
> There is some pretty decent pictures and other reference materials in
there. Most of it can also be found on the website also, but
> it's probably faster accessing the CD (especially if you're stuck with
dialup like me.)
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS USA

Tom, Thanks for the link, very useful.

Bernard R

mm

"mel"

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 1:07 PM

that depends on how the veneers on the plywood are cut. What you need to
remember is the different way of slicing up a log yields a different look to
the grain on a board or veneer.

http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/display_tip.asp?artID=146

To answer another question concerning pricing of red oak vs white oak it
depends what part of the country you are in. White oak is more prevalent up
north whereas red oak is more prevalent down south. Here in Texas I pay a
premium for white oak.

JJ

JGS

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 6:38 AM

That's about the same ratio of prices in my neck of the woods. Nothing wrong
with white oak but you will need QS to show the rays to full effect. Cheers, JG

todd wrote:

> "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > We went up to St. Louis today and went by Rockler to pick up some
> supplies.
> > While there we asked about their new Mission Gel stain. We were showed
> some
> > QS white oak boards that were treated with this stain and SWMBO loved the
> > look. When we got home I checked my price list from a place I buy my rough
> > lumber from and they only listed red oak and white oak. The white oak was
> 52
> > cents cheaper. Figure I'd ask the group if they know why. Is the white oak
> > more abundant? Does regular cut white oak look crappy ? They don't have QS
> > white oak listed. I think it's a special order thing. The only wood I've
> > worked with since graduating from pine is red oak.
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Mike S.
> > [email protected]
> > http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
>
> Personally, I like the look of white oak vs. red oak. My local place
> charges (for 4/4 S2S) $3.75 for WO and $3.59 for RO. QSWO goes for $5.78
> and QSRO gets $5.55.
>
> todd

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to JGS on 18/04/2004 6:38 AM

18/04/2004 11:49 AM

JGS responds:

>That's about the same ratio of prices in my neck of the woods. Nothing wrong
>with white oak but you will need QS to show the rays to full effect.

QS red oak also shows rays, for those who are interested.

Charlie Self
"Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a
pleasure." Ambrose Bierce

LH

"Lowell Holmes"

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 9:56 AM

I think that is why it is used for wooden boat frames and transoms.


"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yup, for some reason white oak always gets the nod for outdoor use.
> IIRC, it has something to do with the closed grain structure. Red oak
> has a high capillary action, water will soak up easily through the end
> grain. But white oak has a tighter grain and won't soak up as much
> water. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. Mark
>
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> >>"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >>>On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:51:14 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>-snip-
> >>
> >>>Get the free "Finishing Touch" CD from the Hardwood Council at
> >>>
> >>>http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/contact/default.asp
> >
> >
> > Isn't white oak better than red for outdoor use?
> > Ed
> >
> >
>

MS

"Mike S."

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 12:36 PM

Thanks for the info guys, I just assumed that white oak would be more
expensive then read. If I used QS or regular cut white oak would white oak
ply look ok with it?

--
Mike S.
[email protected]
http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
"Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We went up to St. Louis today and went by Rockler to pick up some
> supplies. While there we asked about their new Mission Gel stain. We were
> showed some QS white oak boards that were treated with this stain and
> SWMBO loved the look. When we got home I checked my price list from a
> place I buy my rough lumber from and they only listed red oak and white
> oak. The white oak was 52 cents cheaper. Figure I'd ask the group if they
> know why. Is the white oak more abundant? Does regular cut white oak look
> crappy ? They don't have QS white oak listed. I think it's a special order
> thing. The only wood I've worked with since graduating from pine is red
> oak.
> Thanks
>
> --
> Mike S.
> [email protected]
> http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
>

MM

Mark

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 2:51 PM

Yup, for some reason white oak always gets the nod for outdoor use.
IIRC, it has something to do with the closed grain structure. Red oak
has a high capillary action, water will soak up easily through the end
grain. But white oak has a tighter grain and won't soak up as much
water. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. Mark

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:51:14 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>-snip-
>>
>>>Get the free "Finishing Touch" CD from the Hardwood Council at
>>>
>>>http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/contact/default.asp
>
>
> Isn't white oak better than red for outdoor use?
> Ed
>
>

jJ

[email protected] (JMartin957)

in reply to Mark on 18/04/2004 2:51 PM

19/04/2004 4:01 AM

>
>Yup, for some reason white oak always gets the nod for outdoor use.
>IIRC, it has something to do with the closed grain structure. Red oak
>has a high capillary action, water will soak up easily through the end
>grain. But white oak has a tighter grain and won't soak up as much
>water. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. Mark
>

The pores of white oak are filled with deposits called tyloses, which makes it
impervious to water and therefore good for barrels and such. Red oak doesn't
have them, and won't hold water.

Take a board of red oak a foot long and put one end in water. Try to blow
through it like you would a soda straw. You'll see lots of bubbles. None with
white oak.

John Martin

pp

patriarch

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

19/04/2004 6:27 AM

"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> that depends on how the veneers on the plywood are cut. What you need
> to remember is the different way of slicing up a log yields a
> different look to the grain on a board or veneer.
>
> http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/display_tip.asp?artID=146
>
> To answer another question concerning pricing of red oak vs white oak
> it depends what part of the country you are in. White oak is more
> prevalent up north whereas red oak is more prevalent down south. Here
> in Texas I pay a premium for white oak.
>

regarding the plywood questions:

IMO, the best investment you can make is to find yourself a good hardwood
dealer, at a slow time of the week, and spend maybe twenty minutes with one
of the folks who has spent a good part of their career in the business.
See what they offer, listen, and then buy a sheet of what looks best to
you. Take it home, and make a couple of small, unimportant projects,
learning how to cut it, color it, finish it, fasten it. Just play with it.

It should cost you maybe, between $50 and $85 or so, for decent quality
goods, and be a cheap education, even if all of it ends up in the burn bin.

And when you need to go back and buy that big stack of goods for the
project SWMBO wants you to do, you won't feel like such a rookie. You'll
get closer to what you want the project to look like, and you're less
likely to make a really expensive mistake.

Patriarch

TV

Tom Veatch

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 4:28 AM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:51:14 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:

-snip-
> Does regular cut white oak look crappy ? They don't have QS
>white oak listed. I think it's a special order thing. The only wood I've
>worked with since graduating from pine is red oak.
>Thanks

Get the free "Finishing Touch" CD from the Hardwood Council at

http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/contact/default.asp

There is some pretty decent pictures and other reference materials in there. Most of it can also be found on the website also, but
it's probably faster accessing the CD (especially if you're stuck with dialup like me.)

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

EP

"Edwin Pawlowski"

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 11:53 AM


> "Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:51:14 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > -snip-
>
> > Get the free "Finishing Touch" CD from the Hardwood Council at
> >
> > http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/contact/default.asp

Isn't white oak better than red for outdoor use?
Ed

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to "Edwin Pawlowski" on 18/04/2004 11:53 AM

18/04/2004 1:25 PM

Ed Pawlowski asks:

>Isn't white oak better than red for outdoor use?

Much better.

Charlie Self
"Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a
pleasure." Ambrose Bierce

MD

Morris Dovey

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 1:53 AM

Tom Veatch wrote:

> Get the free "Finishing Touch" CD from the Hardwood Council at
>
> http://www.hardwoodcouncil.com/contact/default.asp

Thanks!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Lr

"Leon"

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 4:32 PM

Location has more to do with it. In SE Texas, Red Oak is cheaper than White
Oak.


"Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We went up to St. Louis today and went by Rockler to pick up some
supplies.
> While there we asked about their new Mission Gel stain. We were showed
some
> QS white oak boards that were treated with this stain and SWMBO loved the
> look. When we got home I checked my price list from a place I buy my rough
> lumber from and they only listed red oak and white oak. The white oak was
52
> cents cheaper. Figure I'd ask the group if they know why. Is the white oak
> more abundant? Does regular cut white oak look crappy ? They don't have QS
> white oak listed. I think it's a special order thing. The only wood I've
> worked with since graduating from pine is red oak.
> Thanks
>
> --
> Mike S.
> [email protected]
> http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
>
>

TV

Tom Veatch

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

19/04/2004 2:14 AM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:56:34 -0500, "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I think that is why it is used for wooden boat frames and transoms.
>
>
And barrel staves

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

Pn

Phisherman

in reply to "Mike S." on 18/04/2004 1:51 AM

18/04/2004 10:24 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:51:14 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>We went up to St. Louis today and went by Rockler to pick up some supplies.
>While there we asked about their new Mission Gel stain. We were showed some
>QS white oak boards that were treated with this stain and SWMBO loved the
>look. When we got home I checked my price list from a place I buy my rough
>lumber from and they only listed red oak and white oak. The white oak was 52
>cents cheaper. Figure I'd ask the group if they know why. Is the white oak
>more abundant? Does regular cut white oak look crappy ? They don't have QS
>white oak listed. I think it's a special order thing. The only wood I've
>worked with since graduating from pine is red oak.
>Thanks


Prices vary for place to place. I happen to like white oak more than
red oak, but that's me. Whatever is in higher demand gets a higher
price. White oak is closed grain and (unlike red oak) is a very good
outdoor wood.


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