Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence - for
a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower left
abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder to
think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to center.......
My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet away....
I agree with the others here. It isn't the cut that caused this. It is
either the table saw or the tool operator. Check everything for square on
the saw, and otherwise brush up on your technique. There is nothing wrong
with using the fence for cross cutting per se, but when also using the miter
guage to make the cross cuts then it becomes a good idea to avoid doing so.
Brian.
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
for
> a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
> miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower
left
> abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
> bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder
to
> think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
center.......
>
> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
away....
>
>
>
Sat, Nov 13, 2004, 9:17pm (EST-1) [email protected]
(bob) says:
<snip> Hit me <snip>
What I would like to know is, with all the tales of kickback on
here, why is it people still stand where they'll get hit if it happens?
JOAT
Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.
- Publilius Syrus
"Mike Girouard" wrote in message
> At least your daughter had the chance to change her school project to
> "Rendering First Aid In The Home". And what were you doing there to
> begin with. It was HER school project. :)
Sure thing, let HER operate the table saw ... keeps you from getting hurt.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
[snip]
> >> I since
> >> learned from the wreck that you should not cut anything smaller than
> >> the width of the blade using the fence.
>
> You mean the diameter of the blade? I'm trying to figure out why this rule
> would be a good one to follow.
Actually, it's kinda silly, IMHO. What's important is the ratio of
the length of the cut-off piece vice the width. As this increases, up
to a point, the likelihood increases that the cut-off piece can
vibrate into a position such that it jams between blade and fence.
Wham! Nothing to do with splitter.
> >> a corner wedged between the blade and splitter
>
> If the wood had been longer than 10" this wouldn't have happened?
Who knows? Who cares? In fact, you can greatly increase safety by
clamping a spacer to your fence, then set its position for locating
the position of work on miter-gauge. Auxiliary fence? Mainly, as cut
is finished, there's lots of daylight at the fence-end of the cut-off
piece. Watch Norm- he does this regularly.
>
> TIA,
> Josie
Good books by Ian Kirby, Jim Tolpin, and others may help you to make
sense of this, and keep all your pieces.
John
I have found this an interesting post to read and sure has made me
think...
A thought from me. When I started WW I didn't like the idea of safety
glasses, so I bought those large sheilds that the turners usually use.
On a cross cut ... the small cut off fell off to the right and I did
not clear it... On a subsequent cut, the piece launched off and
smashed my full face shield ... Bad operation on my part ... yes.
Happy to have that sheild to protect my throat!!
Brandt
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:57:30 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is cutting
>across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
I have no issue with this statement with respect to the type or configuration of
the blade used to make the cut - rip sharpened for cuts parallel to the grain
and crosscut sharpened for cuts across the grain. But, with respect to the
technique used to make the cut using a tablesaw, I'm more comfortable with
"crosscut" = cutting across the shorter dimension and "ripping" = cutting along
the longer dimension of the piece.
With that said, I confess that I don't remember ever consciously thinking "Now
this is a (rip)(cross) cut, so I should (....)" I just look at what I'm trying
to do and do it whatever way keeps my anatomy as far as possible any spinning
iron.
Sorry if this is off-point with the OP. Swingman's post was the first I saw in
this "sub-thread".
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:gKHld.3567
> I might be wrong, but I interpreted that he used both his miter and his
> fence at the same time. Geeze Leon, you don't do *that* all the time, do
> you?
No mention of a miter gauge. No I do not use both.
"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Been there, done that, twice!! First time, I was cutting 2 feet off the
end
> of an 8 foot sheet of quarter inch luan. (to me, I'd call that cross
> cutting). I had just finished cutting some dados and didn't bother to
> replace the splitter. Near the end of the cut, wham!! the 2'X4' sheet
> sailed by me and stuck into the half inch plywood wall behind me; a very
> nice M&T joint right into the wall. Cause: primarily cutting with no
> splitter, secondarily I failed to hold down the piece.
Primarily not guiding your piece properly. A splitter can help avoid
catastrophy, but the cause was in the way you passed the piece through.
It's better to know why it happend than to credit something that covered for
bad technique. I'm curious though Gary - did you have adequate support
under the whole workpiece, or most of it? What were you using to guide the
stock through? Miter, or sliding table? What amount of the stock was
supported?
>
> Second time, I was "cross cutting" a piece of 3/4 plywood, cutting a 6"X6"
> square off a 6"X ~14" piece. Splitter and blade guard were in place,
using
> the fence. The piece on the left side turned as I was completing the cut,
a
> corner wedged between the blade and splitter, wham!! The block hit me
about
> the same place as Bob, although no broken skin or torn jeans. But I did
> have a real nice 6"X6" bruise to explain to my wife.
Ha! See - good reason not to use those "gadgets"... (just joking for those
who are funny impared)
> Cause primarily,
> cutting too small of a piece with the table saw, I should have used my
miter
> saw. I since learned from the wreck that you should not cut anything
> smaller than the width of the blade using the fence. Secondarily, pushing
> material through on both sides of the blade is not a good thing to do.
Not true. Your table saw is perfectly capable of doing cut offs. You will
see fly-by's when you allow the stock to twist as you complete the cut. If
that same twist had happened earlier you'd have experienced a bind. Your
miter saw might well have been a better choice, but that does not make a
tablesaw the wrong tool to use for this type of cut. Again - it goes back
to technique. If you use the fence for a narrow piece you will lack
control - bad technique. If you use the miter on that same table saw to do
this you have all the stability you need.
Not understanding what really happens in an accident and then giving credit
to the wrong thing for preventing accidents from recurring in the future
only guarntees another accident down the road. I made a joke above, but the
point is very real. You cannot put faith in things like splitters and
guards. As you saw Gary, you had a splitter in place and you had an
accident. It isn't about splitters and guards. It's about what makes wood
go airborn. It's always bad technique. Splitters can indeed cover for the
bad technique a good deal of the time, but the bad technique is still there.
That's what requires the focus with power tools. Sooner or later bad
technique is going to catch up with you faster than not having idot proof
devices will. BTW - I really do believe splitters are a good idea - really.
Honestly.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bob, the key to preventing a recurrence is understanding exactly what caused
your accident. It may have been a blade or fence misalignment as has been
suggested. If you find that is not the case, however, there are other
questions:
You didn't say which part was against the fence, the 16" workpiece or the 2"
offcut. You didn't say which piece was kicked back. You didn't say whether
you were pushing/guiding with both hands or one hand only.
When you say you were "crosscutting" a piece of plywood, that leads me to
suspect you may have had the 16" workpiece on the left side of the blade and
the 2" offcut against the fence. If you were pushing with your left hand,
the workpiece may have skewed on the table as it separated from the offcut,
moving it into the back teeth of the blade.
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l%[email protected]...
> No, I was not using the miter gauge (I'm not THAT stupid!). Just pushing
it
> through. And no splitter - but, I only had about a 2" cutoff, so the lack
> of a splitter wouldn't have caused this. Based on the postings here, I
need
> to do a little tuneup on my saw.
> "bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> > school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
> > for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a
> > hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in
the
> > lower left abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty
bruise
> > and two bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them.
I
> > shudder to think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
> > center.......
> >
> > My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
> > away....
> >
> >
> >
>
>
I for one don't. At least, not after the first time it happened to me.
Long before I discovered rec.wooddorking, I bought a table saw, and did
essentially the same thing.
Which I suspect made me feel just as dumb as Mark did. :)
Now, I stand off to the right hand side if possible. And I don't use the
fence and the miter gauge at the same time.
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sat, Nov 13, 2004, 9:17pm (EST-1) [email protected]
> (bob) says:
> <snip> Hit me <snip>
>
> What I would like to know is, with all the tales of kickback on
> here, why is it people still stand where they'll get hit if it happens?
>
>
>
> JOAT
> Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.
> - Publilius Syrus
>
In article <[email protected]>, "bob" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
>school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence - for
>a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
>miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..).
It probably *was* that fast, actually.
Consider: a 10" saw blade has a circumference of 31.4 inches. Spinning at,
say, 3600 rpm, the tips of the teeth are moving at (31.4 / 12 * 3600 ) = 9420
feet per minute = 565,200 feet per hour = 107 mph.
>Hit me in the lower left
>abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
>bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder to
>think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to center.......
Yeeeowch! Sorry to hear about that...
>
>My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet away....
Bummer.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> I always stand to the left of the blade and that is the way I was
>>> taught. Now I'm wondering why you both stand to the right? The
>>> switch in on the left on my Delta ts, too.
>>
>> Depends on what you are cutting. Ripping an 8" board down the
>> middle, yes, on the left.
>>
>> Cutting a 36" x 36" sheet of plywood down to 24", I'm on the right
>> as there is lots of room between me and the fence.
Yikes, this is something you decide piece by piece? I'm going to have to
think about that for a while.
Josie
"mac davis" wrote in message
> I picture a cross cut as cutting across the narrow end of a board,
> like cutting an 8' 2x5 into 2 4' pieces..
>
> then again, I think of ripping as cutting the 2x4 into 2 2x2x8'
> pieces, and his piece of plywood was square...
>
> there goes my concept of "cross cutting" all to hell!!
There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is cutting
across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
bob wrote:
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a
> daughter's school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through
> using the fence - for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up
> and tossed it at a hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that
> fast..).
I have a scar on my left hand from a similar "accident" over a year ago.
I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt. "Think twice, Cut once."
-- Mark
"Tom Veatch" wrote in message
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:57:30 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>
> >There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is
cutting
> >across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
>
> I have no issue with this statement with respect to the type or
configuration of
> the blade used to make the cut - rip sharpened for cuts parallel to the
grain
> and crosscut sharpened for cuts across the grain. But, with respect to the
> technique used to make the cut using a tablesaw, I'm more comfortable with
> "crosscut" = cutting across the shorter dimension and "ripping" = cutting
along
> the longer dimension of the piece.
No argument at all ... your's is a convenient, conventional, and logical way
to describe the orientation of various cuts in sheet goods, but that was not
the point.
When you cut a 10" long, 12" wide solid wood board to 10" X 10" on the table
saw, a newbie would be rightfully confused.
<snip>
> Sorry if this is off-point with the OP. Swingman's post was the first I
saw in
> this "sub-thread".
You aparently need to read Mark's post re: plywood as the "first" post in
the "subthread" ... mine was the third in context.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
for
> a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
> miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower
left
> abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
> bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder
to
> think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
center.......
>
> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
away....
>
>
>
...and without even picking up that crosscut sled, all you had to do was
remove or simply move that rip fence away from the stock. Rip fence and
crosscuts are a guarantee of a kickback. Shame on you.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Gary wrote:
[snip]
>> Second time, I was "cross cutting" a piece of 3/4 plywood, cutting a
>> 6"X6" square off a 6"X ~14" piece. Splitter and blade guard were in
>> place, using the fence. The piece on the left side turned as I was
>> completing the cut, a corner wedged between the blade and splitter,
>> wham!! The block hit me about the same place as Bob, although no
>> broken skin or torn jeans. But I did have a real nice 6"X6" bruise
>> to explain to my wife. Cause primarily, cutting too small of a
>> piece with the table saw, I should have used my miter saw. I since
>> learned from the wreck that you should not cut anything smaller than
>> the width of the blade using the fence. Secondarily, pushing
>> material through on both sides of the blade is not a good thing to
>> do.
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>> Gary
>> I since
>> learned from the wreck that you should not cut anything smaller than
>> the width of the blade using the fence.
You mean the diameter of the blade? I'm trying to figure out why this rule
would be a good one to follow.
>> a corner wedged between the blade and splitter
If the wood had been longer than 10" this wouldn't have happened?
TIA,
Josie
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
> for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a
> hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the
> lower left abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise
> and two bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I
> shudder to think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
> center.......
>
> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
> away....
>
>
>
Been there, done that, twice!! First time, I was cutting 2 feet off the end
of an 8 foot sheet of quarter inch luan. (to me, I'd call that cross
cutting). I had just finished cutting some dados and didn't bother to
replace the splitter. Near the end of the cut, wham!! the 2'X4' sheet
sailed by me and stuck into the half inch plywood wall behind me; a very
nice M&T joint right into the wall. Cause: primarily cutting with no
splitter, secondarily I failed to hold down the piece.
Second time, I was "cross cutting" a piece of 3/4 plywood, cutting a 6"X6"
square off a 6"X ~14" piece. Splitter and blade guard were in place, using
the fence. The piece on the left side turned as I was completing the cut, a
corner wedged between the blade and splitter, wham!! The block hit me about
the same place as Bob, although no broken skin or torn jeans. But I did
have a real nice 6"X6" bruise to explain to my wife. Cause primarily,
cutting too small of a piece with the table saw, I should have used my miter
saw. I since learned from the wreck that you should not cut anything
smaller than the width of the blade using the fence. Secondarily, pushing
material through on both sides of the blade is not a good thing to do.
My 2 cents.
Gary
"firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I always stand to the left of the blade and that is the way I was taught.
> Now I'm wondering why you both stand to the right? The switch in on the
> left on my Delta ts, too.
Depends on what you are cutting. Ripping an 8" board down the middle, yes,
on the left.
Cutting a 36" x 36" sheet of plywood down to 24", I'm on the right as there
is lots of room between me and the fence.
"slindars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For the record can someone cite where the proper position to stand is
> when doing crosscuts vs ripping. If there a difference? New to
> woodworking and table saw use and this sounds like a very important
> thing to have cleared up.
The proper position to stand is the one that affords you the best capability
to properly hold down and feed the material.
mark wrote:
>> "Tim and Stephanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:HMIld.3774$2V4.685@trndny06...
>>> I for one don't. At least, not after the first time it happened to
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Long before I discovered rec.wooddorking, I bought a table saw, and
>>> did essentially the same thing.
>>>
>>> Which I suspect made me feel just as dumb as Mark did. :)
>>>
>>> Now, I stand off to the right hand side if possible. And I don't
>>> use the fence and the miter gauge at the same time.
>>
>> I stand off to the right as well, but the power switch is on the
>> left. Sometimes it's awkward to turn off and on. I actually thought
>> about trying to move it.
I always stand to the left of the blade and that is the way I was taught.
Now I'm wondering why you both stand to the right? The switch in on the
left on my Delta ts, too. A buddy's Dad also stood to the left and had his
emergency switch on a pole to the left as well. I wonder if he was a Lefty?
I'm not.
Josie
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence - for
> a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
> miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower left
> abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
> bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder to
> think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to center.......
>
> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet away....
At least your daughter had the chance to change her school project to
"Rendering First Aid In The Home". And what were you doing there to
begin with. It was HER school project. :)
FoggyTown
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:10:13 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Free hand cuts would be even more dangerous. There is no mention of a
>miter gauge being used. Again, what constitutes "crosscut" on a piece of
>plywood?
>
I picture a cross cut as cutting across the narrow end of a board,
like cutting an 8' 2x5 into 2 4' pieces..
then again, I think of ripping as cutting the 2x4 into 2 2x2x8'
pieces, and his piece of plywood was square...
there goes my concept of "cross cutting" all to hell!!
mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in message
> pieces, and his piece of plywood was square...
>
> there goes my concept of "cross cutting" all to hell!!
Keep in mind, the ply was square *after* he cut it. if it was already
16" wide who knows how long it was. Could have been the full 8' for
all we know. IMHO, cross cutting isn't defined by the size after the
cut but by before.
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:17:30 -0600, "bob"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
>school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence - for
>a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
>miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower left
>abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
>bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder to
>think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to center.......
>
>My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet away....
>
>
Glad to hear you weren't hurt worse, but I'm a little confused on what
you consider "cross-cutting" on plywood that is 16" square. Sounds like
you were either working without a splitter or standing in the wrong place.
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree with the others here. It isn't the cut that caused this. It is
> either the table saw or the tool operator. Check everything for square on
> the saw, and otherwise brush up on your technique. There is nothing wrong
> with using the fence for cross cutting per se, but when also using the
miter
> guage to make the cross cuts then it becomes a good idea to avoid doing
so.
>
I think he is fessing up to opperator error.
I let the wood twist a hair at the end of the cut (without a splitter and
without anything pushing down on the wood) and the blade caught the board an
threw it back at me. It not only hurt, but I had a lot of work to do to
replace the ruined board.
Now I use either a splitter or a Gripper; either would have prevented the
accident.
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:43:46 GMT, "Chuck Hoffman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
I don't think he was cutting THE 16" square, now that I read it
again... I think he was cutting a larger piece (x is the size?) up
into 16" squares?
>Bob, the key to preventing a recurrence is understanding exactly what caused
>your accident. It may have been a blade or fence misalignment as has been
>suggested. If you find that is not the case, however, there are other
>questions:
>
>You didn't say which part was against the fence, the 16" workpiece or the 2"
>offcut. You didn't say which piece was kicked back. You didn't say whether
>you were pushing/guiding with both hands or one hand only.
>
>When you say you were "crosscutting" a piece of plywood, that leads me to
>suspect you may have had the 16" workpiece on the left side of the blade and
>the 2" offcut against the fence. If you were pushing with your left hand,
>the workpiece may have skewed on the table as it separated from the offcut,
>moving it into the back teeth of the blade.
>
>"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:l%[email protected]...
>> No, I was not using the miter gauge (I'm not THAT stupid!). Just pushing
>it
>> through. And no splitter - but, I only had about a 2" cutoff, so the lack
>> of a splitter wouldn't have caused this. Based on the postings here, I
>need
>> to do a little tuneup on my saw.
>> "bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
>> > school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
>> > for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a
>> > hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in
>the
>> > lower left abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty
>bruise
>> > and two bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them.
>I
>> > shudder to think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
>> > center.......
>> >
>> > My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
>> > away....
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> > school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
> > for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a
> > hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in
the
> > lower left abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty
bruise
> > and two bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them.
I
> > shudder to think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
> > center.......
> >
> > My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
> > away....
>
> Bob I think you might want to brush up on your technique. You should have
> not have had any problem making that cut. I do cuts like that all the
time.
> You must be sure that the piece stays flat against the fence and that you
> hold the piece down.
> Anyway it is good to hear that you came through OK.
>
>
I might be wrong, but I interpreted that he used both his miter and his
fence at the same time. Geeze Leon, you don't do *that* all the time, do
you?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 04:51:48 -0500, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:
>Sat, Nov 13, 2004, 9:17pm (EST-1) [email protected]
>(bob) says:
><snip> Hit me <snip>
>
> What I would like to know is, with all the tales of kickback on
>here, why is it people still stand where they'll get hit if it happens?
>
You don't know where it is going to go. I had a hunk fly out sideways
a few weeks ago. The tooth marks on the wood were almost a perfect
1/4 circle from one corner to the opposite corner. It was my fault
for crosscuting with the rip fence, but it certainly wasn't a
predictable path that the piece took.
>JOAT
>Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.
>- Publilius Syrus
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
No, I was not using the miter gauge (I'm not THAT stupid!). Just pushing it
through. And no splitter - but, I only had about a 2" cutoff, so the lack
of a splitter wouldn't have caused this. Based on the postings here, I need
to do a little tuneup on my saw.
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
> for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a
> hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the
> lower left abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise
> and two bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I
> shudder to think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
> center.......
>
> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
> away....
>
>
>
"Tim and Stephanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:HMIld.3774$2V4.685@trndny06...
>I for one don't. At least, not after the first time it happened to me.
>
> Long before I discovered rec.wooddorking, I bought a table saw, and did
> essentially the same thing.
>
> Which I suspect made me feel just as dumb as Mark did. :)
>
> Now, I stand off to the right hand side if possible. And I don't use the
> fence and the miter gauge at the same time.
I stand off to the right as well, but the power switch is on the left.
Sometimes it's awkward to turn off and on. I actually thought about trying
to move it.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (brandt) wrote:
> >I have found this an interesting post to read and sure has made me
> >think...
> >
> >A thought from me. When I started WW I didn't like the idea of safety
> >glasses, so I bought those large sheilds that the turners usually use.
> > On a cross cut ... the small cut off fell off to the right and I did
> >not clear it... On a subsequent cut, the piece launched off and
> >smashed my full face shield ... Bad operation on my part ... yes.
> >Happy to have that sheild to protect my throat!!
> >
> Like I said earlier... there are other things on your face worth
protecting
> besides your eyes. I kinda enjoy having front teeth, for instance. Tough
to
> eat apples without them, ya know.
>
Likewise here. When doing things that require eye protection I prefer to go
with a full face shield as much as possible. Sometimes it's not practical,
but to the extent that I can, I don the full face shield. So much easier to
work in.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"mac davis" wrote in message
"Swingman" wrote:
> >> there goes my concept of "cross cutting" all to hell!!
> >
> >There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is
cutting
> >across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
>
> so, do I have to delaminate my plywood before cutting it?
Mark asked the question twice: " ... what constitutes "crosscut" on a piece
of plywood?", but was ignored by all.
I believe that the point Mark was getting at is that the question is not
whether it is a "crosscut" or a "rip", but safety with regard to the
orientation on the saw of a board that is longer than it is wide, whether it
be sheet stock or wood.
In the case of the OP, if what he said was true about the final dimension
(16" x 16"), and the size of the "cutoff" (2"), then whether it was a
crosscut or rip is likely moot with regard to the safety of the operation
that caused the particular incident, and therefore the incident was more
likely caused by technique, or lack thereof.
IOW, cutting 2" off 16" x 18" a piece of sheet good with the 16" side
against the fence is not an inherently unsafe thing to do for someone
experienced with a table saw.
That said, everyone has their comfort level on various table saw cuts, so
that might not hold true for someone who feels that type of cut is unsafe
for them.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:57:30 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"mac davis" wrote in message
>> I picture a cross cut as cutting across the narrow end of a board,
>> like cutting an 8' 2x5 into 2 4' pieces..
>>
>> then again, I think of ripping as cutting the 2x4 into 2 2x2x8'
>> pieces, and his piece of plywood was square...
>>
>> there goes my concept of "cross cutting" all to hell!!
>
>There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is cutting
>across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
so, do I have to delaminate my plywood before cutting it?
ahh.. buy bending plywood and all the grain runs the same direction..
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:55:26 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a
daughter's
> >> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the
fence -
> >for
> >> a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
> >> miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower
> >left
> >> abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
> >> bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I
shudder
> >to
> >> think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
> >center.......
> >>
> >> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
> >away....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >...and without even picking up that crosscut sled, all you had to do was
> >remove or simply move that rip fence away from the stock. Rip fence and
> >crosscuts are a guarantee of a kickback. Shame on you.
>
>
> Free hand cuts would be even more dangerous. There is no mention of a
> miter gauge being used. Again, what constitutes "crosscut" on a piece of
> plywood?
>
>
You are correct in that I assumed he meant he was using both the miter gauge
and the rip fence. That owes to what I hear people here refer to as a cross
cut - cutting with a miter or a sled. There was a discussion here not so
long ago that created the impression that the use of that term implied using
either a miter gauge or a cross cut sled. The OP even mentioned a cross cut
sled so, I just merrily followed down that path. Simply using a rip fence
to perform a cross cut (assuming a piece of wood that *can* really be cross
cut) does not pose an inherent problem.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:31:06 GMT, Tom Veatch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:57:30 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is cutting
>>across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
>
>I have no issue with this statement with respect to the type or configuration of
>the blade used to make the cut - rip sharpened for cuts parallel to the grain
>and crosscut sharpened for cuts across the grain. But, with respect to the
>technique used to make the cut using a tablesaw, I'm more comfortable with
>"crosscut" = cutting across the shorter dimension and "ripping" = cutting along
>the longer dimension of the piece.
That's usually the case, but it doesn't make it safe to ignore the
direction of the grain.
>With that said, I confess that I don't remember ever consciously thinking "Now
>this is a (rip)(cross) cut, so I should (....)" I just look at what I'm trying
>to do and do it whatever way keeps my anatomy as far as possible any spinning
>iron.
You might want to start... or not, if you prefer- but it sure does
hurt if you get a hunk of wood spit at you because you crosscut with
the fence. And I've got a chunk of maple that says it can kick back
at your head even if you're standing well off to the side!
>Sorry if this is off-point with the OP. Swingman's post was the first I saw in
>this "sub-thread".
>
>
>Tom Veatch
>Wichita, KS USA
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:37:52 -0800, "Brian" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I agree with the others here. It isn't the cut that caused this. It is
>either the table saw or the tool operator. Check everything for square on
>the saw, and otherwise brush up on your technique.
Agreed here, plywood is neither crosscut nor ripped- the grain goes
both ways.
>There is nothing wrong
>with using the fence for cross cutting per se, but when also using the miter
>guage to make the cross cuts then it becomes a good idea to avoid doing so.
Yes, there is. It's dangerous, and bad advice- you can get away with
something a hundred times, but that doesn't make it okay when you get
a piece of timber lodged in your stomach the 101st time. In the
context of plywood, it doesn't matter, but you are not cross-cutting
in that situation.
>Brian.
>
>
>"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
>> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
>for
>> a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
>> miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower
>left
>> abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
>> bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder
>to
>> think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
>center.......
>>
>> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
>away....
>>
>>
>>
>
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"bob" wrote in message
> No, I was not using the miter gauge (I'm not THAT stupid!). Just pushing
it
> through. And no splitter - but, I only had about a 2" cutoff, so the lack
> of a splitter wouldn't have caused this. Based on the postings here, I
need
> to do a little tuneup on my saw.
? Unless I misunderstand your OP, something doesn't add up with your
original statement of a 16" x 16" workpiece?
The rotation of the piece into the back teeth of the blade is undoubtedly
what caused your missile ... a splitter would almost certainly have
prevented this with a workpiece that size, regardless of how small the
"cutoff".
You state "Just pushing it through". Without being there, One can surmise
that 'act' could have been the root of the problem.
Maintaining "control" over the piece being cut, _throughout_ the cut, is as
equally important, if not more so, than safety devices like "push" sticks,
splitters and guards.
I've seen "push" sticks/devices get folks into trouble, particularly with
ill setup equipment, because the act of 'pushing" is not necessarily the
same as "controlling" the piece throughout the cut either by hand, or with a
properly designed "push" device.
A properly designed push device that allows you to push, exert downward
pressure on the table, and lateral pressure against the fence, all at the
same time and _all the way through the cut_, along with a splitter, will
almost guarantee your chances of a safe cut on a piece of that particular
size.
Don't mean to preach, but the risk of sounding that way may prevent a future
mishaps due to not fully understanding the causes of same.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:55:26 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
>> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
>for
>> a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a hundred
>> miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the lower
>left
>> abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise and two
>> bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I shudder
>to
>> think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
>center.......
>>
>> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
>away....
>>
>>
>>
>
>...and without even picking up that crosscut sled, all you had to do was
>remove or simply move that rip fence away from the stock. Rip fence and
>crosscuts are a guarantee of a kickback. Shame on you.
Free hand cuts would be even more dangerous. There is no mention of a
miter gauge being used. Again, what constitutes "crosscut" on a piece of
plywood?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (brandt) wrote:
>I have found this an interesting post to read and sure has made me
>think...
>
>A thought from me. When I started WW I didn't like the idea of safety
>glasses, so I bought those large sheilds that the turners usually use.
> On a cross cut ... the small cut off fell off to the right and I did
>not clear it... On a subsequent cut, the piece launched off and
>smashed my full face shield ... Bad operation on my part ... yes.
>Happy to have that sheild to protect my throat!!
>
Like I said earlier... there are other things on your face worth protecting
besides your eyes. I kinda enjoy having front teeth, for instance. Tough to
eat apples without them, ya know.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cutting up some 3/4" plywood on the TS into 16" squares for a daughter's
> school project. Absentmindedly, I ran a piece through using the fence -
> for a crosscut. The blade picked that sucker up and tossed it at a
> hundred miles an hour into me (well, it felt that fast..). Hit me in the
> lower left abdomen just inside from the hip bone. Got a big nasty bruise
> and two bloody scrapes. I had jeans on, and it ripped a hole in them. I
> shudder to think about the damage to me if it had hit a little closer to
> center.......
>
> My very adequate crosscut sled was leaning against the wall 6 feet
> away....
Bob I think you might want to brush up on your technique. You should have
not have had any problem making that cut. I do cuts like that all the time.
You must be sure that the piece stays flat against the fence and that you
hold the piece down.
Anyway it is good to hear that you came through OK.