In article <[email protected]>,
rllipham <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> wrote:
>
> >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
>
>
> If these were sold just prior to the receivership and the store new
> the GC were being issued there may be some fraud.
Possibly, but good luck getting someone to pursue the case.
Proving intent would be difficult at best, and no prosecutor is about to
waste his time on a bunch of $25-$100 certificates.
After two years, they haven't even charged any of the Enron bastards.
-JR
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> rllipham <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> > >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> > >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
> >
> >
> > If these were sold just prior to the receivership and the store new
> > the GC were being issued there may be some fraud.
>
> Possibly, but good luck getting someone to pursue the case.
>
> Proving intent would be difficult at best, and no prosecutor is about to
> waste his time on a bunch of $25-$100 certificates.
>
> After two years, they haven't even charged any of the Enron bastards.
>
Not because nobody is trying:
<http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2003/11/08/ex_enron_chair_lay_t
o_give_papers_to_sec/>
In article <[email protected]>, jonny
poika <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
When you've got a gift certificate from a business that's gone under,
you're pretty much out of luck.
WW would be obligated to accept their gift certificates, but the
receivers aren't. The GC is a debt they owe to the holder, but it's
way down the list of creditors to be paid.
Kevin
On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
wrote:
>Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
>certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
>certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
If these were sold just prior to the receivership and the store new
the GC were being issued there may be some fraud.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kohlman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Suspect you're correct. Kinda sucks though. The purchaser of the GC has in
> effect granted an interest free loan to WWW .
And that would be the classic definition of an unsecured creditor.
-JR
Kevin Craig wrote:
>
> WW would be obligated to accept their gift certificates, but the
> receivers aren't. The GC is a debt they owe to the holder, but it's
> way down the list of creditors to be paid.
In this context, what is "GC"? Thanks.
-- Mark
P.S. In the other groups I frequent RAS is Remote Acess Server and DC is
Domain Controller. GC has two common meanings, Garbage Collection and
Global Catalog.
And we all know PMS stands for Preventive Maintenance Service. ;-)
"Steve Jenness" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> wrote:
>
> >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
>
> Based on a Business Review article, this is not true.
>
> "Following input from the attorneys general of New York, New
> Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, the federal bankruptcy
> court for Delaware has ordered that outstanding gift certificates and
> credit slips amounting to $680,000 be honored throughout the
> bankruptcy proceedings, according to Spitzer. "
>
> http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/12/08/daily19.html
I read this same thing somewhere else... I think it was in the local paper.
John
Suspect you're correct. Kinda sucks though. The purchaser of the GC has in
effect granted an interest free loan to WWW . They give cash to WWW which
only comes due when the GC is redeemed and worse yet there is a profit
margin involved so WWW could "pay-off" the debt with less out-of-pocket cash
than they received. However the other creditors (who got interest on their
loans) make sure they get first dibs.
Timing of the liquidation is suspicious and I have to wonder if it wasn't to
get some extra cash in the door via GC sales in the run-up to the Christmas
season, knowing full well that they wouldn't have to honor them. My habit
of shopping on Dec 24 has just been given legitimacy.
Saying all that, I seem to recall that some states might give priority to GC
holders.
"Kevin Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:181220032033253592%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, jonny
> poika <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> > certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> > certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
>
> When you've got a gift certificate from a business that's gone under,
> you're pretty much out of luck.
>
> WW would be obligated to accept their gift certificates, but the
> receivers aren't. The GC is a debt they owe to the holder, but it's
> way down the list of creditors to be paid.
>
> Kevin
It sounds like Lay's Play came right out of Dick Chenney's Secret Energy
Meeting playbook. The only difference is that Chenney never gave up his
notes and etc..
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > rllipham <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> > > >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> > > >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
> > >
> > >
> > > If these were sold just prior to the receivership and the store new
> > > the GC were being issued there may be some fraud.
> >
> > Possibly, but good luck getting someone to pursue the case.
> >
> > Proving intent would be difficult at best, and no prosecutor is about to
> > waste his time on a bunch of $25-$100 certificates.
> >
> > After two years, they haven't even charged any of the Enron bastards.
> >
>
> Not because nobody is trying:
> <http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2003/11/08/ex_enron_chair_lay_t
> o_give_papers_to_sec/>
>
>
Note the last 2 words on the subject line.
Art
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kevin Craig wrote:
> >
> > WW would be obligated to accept their gift certificates, but the
> > receivers aren't. The GC is a debt they owe to the holder, but it's
> > way down the list of creditors to be paid.
>
> In this context, what is "GC"? Thanks.
>
> -- Mark
>
> P.S. In the other groups I frequent RAS is Remote Acess Server and DC is
> Domain Controller. GC has two common meanings, Garbage Collection and
> Global Catalog.
>
> And we all know PMS stands for Preventive Maintenance Service. ;-)
>
>
Hate to repeat myself but I think some states have granted priority to GC
holders :)
I don't have any of those WWW GC's but I smell a rat. They announced "going
down" and immediately went to "fire sale". Too quick in my experience and I
think the whole thing was planned to get a little more cash out of the
Christmas GC biz.
As someone already psoted, will be impossible to find a lawyer to fight this
one (especially since there is so much to be made on cigarettes)...But I saw
somewhere that they owe a ton of $$$ to Porter Cable/Delta. If their
internal counsel had anything to do with the call not to honor the GC's,
then that was stupid on their part.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:fJJEb.115066$cQ.54284@okepread05...
> Great Post !!! I guess he should contact his State Attorney General's
> office if they do not honor the GC.
>
>
>
> "Steve Jenness" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> > >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> > >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
> >
> > Based on a Business Review article, this is not true.
> >
> > "Following input from the attorneys general of New York, New
> > Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, the federal bankruptcy
> > court for Delaware has ordered that outstanding gift certificates and
> > credit slips amounting to $680,000 be honored throughout the
> > bankruptcy proceedings, according to Spitzer. "
> >
> > http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/12/08/daily19.html
>
>
On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
wrote:
>Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
>certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
>certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
I don't have a certificate, but they have a sign on the local store's
front door saying they don't accept them. According to the local
employees, who are now more helpful than they ever were before, a bank
appointed trustee is in charge now.
Perhaps someone here is knowledgeable about bankruptcy and can explain
more?
FWIW, the Wallingford store looks like a mob stripped it. The funny
part is that even at 10% off, most of their prices are higher than
Tool Crib and Tools-Plus, the latter's brick an mortar store is only
20-30 minutes away.
Barry
Great Post !!! I guess he should contact his State Attorney General's
office if they do not honor the GC.
"Steve Jenness" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> wrote:
>
> >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
>
> Based on a Business Review article, this is not true.
>
> "Following input from the attorneys general of New York, New
> Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, the federal bankruptcy
> court for Delaware has ordered that outstanding gift certificates and
> credit slips amounting to $680,000 be honored throughout the
> bankruptcy proceedings, according to Spitzer. "
>
> http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/12/08/daily19.html
as a holder of a gift certificate you are a unsecured creditor. Basically
you are screwed.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
> wrote:
>
> >Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
> >certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
> >certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
>
>
> I don't have a certificate, but they have a sign on the local store's
> front door saying they don't accept them. According to the local
> employees, who are now more helpful than they ever were before, a bank
> appointed trustee is in charge now.
>
> Perhaps someone here is knowledgeable about bankruptcy and can explain
> more?
>
> FWIW, the Wallingford store looks like a mob stripped it. The funny
> part is that even at 10% off, most of their prices are higher than
> Tool Crib and Tools-Plus, the latter's brick an mortar store is only
> 20-30 minutes away.
>
> Barry
On 18 Dec 2003 17:53:06 -0800, [email protected] (jonny poika)
wrote:
>Is anybody else having a hard time trying to spend their gift
>certificates at WW? They claim they don't have to honor the
>certificates because their stock was being sold by liquidators.
Based on a Business Review article, this is not true.
"Following input from the attorneys general of New York, New
Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, the federal bankruptcy
court for Delaware has ordered that outstanding gift certificates and
credit slips amounting to $680,000 be honored throughout the
bankruptcy proceedings, according to Spitzer. "
http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2003/12/08/daily19.html
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kevin Craig wrote:
> >
> > WW would be obligated to accept their gift certificates, but the
> > receivers aren't. The GC is a debt they owe to the holder, but it's
> > way down the list of creditors to be paid.
>
> In this context, what is "GC"? Thanks.
>
> -- Mark
>
> P.S. In the other groups I frequent RAS is Remote Acess Server and DC is
> Domain Controller. GC has two common meanings, Garbage Collection and
> Global Catalog.
>
> And we all know PMS stands for Preventive Maintenance Service. ;-)
>
>
Yeah, and some routers spin carbide while other routers spin packets.
Sometimes when I look at the subject lines, I get confused about which
group I'm reading :-)
"Tom Kohlman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Saying all that, I seem to recall that some states might give priority to GC
> holders.
Priority over what? There's a lot of creditors lined up and they all
have different priorities.
It's pretty much a given in any bankruptcy that payroll comes first.
The employees may get screwed out of their pension plans, but they
should at least get paid for every day they worked.
Taxes are pretty high on the list after that. Secured debt is probably
next, followed by unsecured debt. Holders of common stock are last in
line. General obligation bonds and preferred stock come before common
stock, but I'm not sure where they fall relative to other things. Not
sure where the above mentioned pension plans would fall either (a good
reason, BTW, to prefer employers with external 401k plans; look what
Bethlehem Steel ended up doing to their workers).
About the most I could imagine a state doing is declaring that gift
certificates are secured rather than unsecured debt. But, if there's
nothing left after the payroll and taxes are paid, you may still end up
with some worthless paper.
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> In this context, what is "GC"? Thanks.
> GC has two common meanings, Garbage Collection and
Don't it just suck when your app server goes comatose for a few seconds
while the GC runs?
"Tom Kohlman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Timing of the liquidation is suspicious and I have to wonder if it wasn't to
>get some extra cash in the door via GC sales in the run-up to the Christmas
>season, knowing full well that they wouldn't have to honor them. My habit
>of shopping on Dec 24 has just been given legitimacy.
Quality Farm and Fleet did the same thing a year or two ago. Best
gift certificate is a personal check.
Wes
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