I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones I've
liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising. It seemed
that it completely sat on the table top (without extending over the back)
and was easy to remove without tools. I don't remember the manufacturer.
Does anyone have a favorite?
Thanks,
Mark
Mark,
Despite what I have seen here, I have a Biesmeyer snap in splitter
installed in my JTAS left tilt saw. It tilts along with the blade, is
easy to put in and pop out. It installed relatively easily. Took me
about 30 to 40 mins of twiddling with the bolt/nuts to get it aligned
with the blade (it needs a 1/8" blade - wont work with thin kerf).
This splitter performs well. I have had several instances of wood
reacting after the rip was beyond the blade and without this splitter
it would be just a steady hand and some luck to keep that wood from
firing back.
No matter what anyone else says about avoiding kickback by pulling back
early or any other means, I for one feel much better knowing that the
wood is not going to bind on that blade. If the wood reacts it may get
tight and hard to push, but at that point I am able to easily reach
down and turn off the saw and then pull it out when it stops. I am not
a pro but I sure feel safer with the splitter in there.
This splitter was about 120 and I think they have one to fit the major
cabinet saws. I dont know about the contractor styles, but its worth
checking out.
Werlax wrote:
> I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones
> I've liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising.
> It seemed that it completely sat on the table top (without extending
> over the back) and was easy to remove without tools. I don't
> remember the manufacturer. Does anyone have a favorite?
> Thanks,
> Mark
Werlax wrote:
> I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones I've
> liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising. It seemed
> that it completely sat on the table top (without extending over the back)
> and was easy to remove without tools. I don't remember the manufacturer.
> Does anyone have a favorite?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
Recently bought a Beisemeyer for a PM66. Easily removable. Excalibur
is another one that's pretty good. Mounts through the insert to the
main housing and thus turns with the blade. If you want something that
is completely on the top, fashion a wooden insert with a finish nail in
it at the appropriate spot. To cut at an angle, replace the insert.
mahalo,
jo4hn
Swingman,
I have seen some of his work and it is first class. Suffice to say,
regardless of whether you like what he says, or how he says it, he knows his
stuff and 'walks the talk'.
I also hope he posts some more of his work, it's inspiring.
--
Greg
"Swingman" wrote in message ...
>
> Not that we don't believe you, but you got any examples of these "quality
> parts" you've produced that we can look at .. you know, just so as to add
> further credence to your claim of professional experience and why your
> professional advice should be heeded?
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 5/15/04
"Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've seen so many ads for splitters
> Does anyone have a favorite?
The professional advise is don't use one.
If the wood is binding up on your blade, the splitter is just another
friction point. The releasing tension within the wood is going to
produce a warp in either one or both boards, but this can be
alleviated nine times out of ten.
Lift the board out of the saw and restart the cut. The offending
twist is eliminated and the secondary board is effectively
straightlined in the process.
I am going to stand by the advise I gave, regardless of the rant.
Most binding occurs at the beginning of a rip, and the time to pull it
is before the blade has come to a stop, using the leverage that board
length allows, and a splitter would only be in the way. This does
require an ear tuned to the sound of the cut, which experience will
provide. In that regard, perhaps I expect too much of fledgling
woodworkers.
I can assure you, Charlie, that after thirty-seven years of trade, I
can still count ten digits. And, I looked at your $6000 beast...it
certainly has all the bells and whistles...with your obvious fear of
the machine and kickback experience, it looks to be the machine for
you. But, until we can all afford the expense of over designed
equipments...
The splitter will remain, in my not so humble opinion, to be an
unnecessary appendage, that is more apt to interfere with my use of
the machine and create an additional hazard to my safety by such
interference.
We all know, that the safety devices provided with every machine are a
matter of litigational coverup. Therefore, when it comes to my
personal safety, I will continue to rely upon common sense and manual
dexterity over device every time...and will rely upon my professional
experience for the production of quality parts.
charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in message:
Well, I guess I've caused quite a stir in this little pot; which is
not what I wanted to do. I cannot demonstrate a physical action and
reaction over a keyboard...it reminds me of one of my wives, who was
always trying to get her brother to fix her car over the phone...and I
am not going to defend myself against the guy who happened to read a
book on the subject.
I am going to try and put it into a context that we can all
understand, and it is really quite simple. It is your responsiblity
as the craftsman to control the machine and not let the machine
control you. It is also your sole responsibility as the craftsman to
have total control over the piece of wood in your hands.
Featherboards and board buddies be damned...they just get in the way
of your controlling the entire situation; they come between you and
your responsibility. You as craftsman are the most significant safety
device you have at your disposal.
About two hundred years ago, a man named Eli Terry began utilizing a
circular blade in the production of clockcases. This was one of the
first production items ever made; and coincided with the advent of
interchangable brass parts for the internal clockworks...before this,
clockworks were individually hand made by the cabinetmaker. A man
named Seth Thomas was an apprentice in Terry's shop. So, men have
been using a tablesaw for some two-hundred years...without all the
geegaws.
Back in the seventies, I was offered a shop in Memphis that had been
in business for over a century. It was fully equipped to make windows
and doors, lineal moldings, cabinets, whatever...there was a molding
machine that could make a six-inch crown, a platen sander that could
finish a 42-inch door, an automated dovetailing machine...all the
equipment was dated 1906.
What I am trying to tell you here is, that every invention we use in
shop today has been around since the industrial revolution...and ever
since then, the yuppies of the day have tried to reinvent the wheel,
just to sell you something; only, a lot of times that wheel is square.
It's a big joke; when you as craftsmen should be concentrating on
technique and skill, derived from manual dexterity and common sense;
the marketing plan of the major industrialists is to sell you their
new invention.
The first principles of working wood, to cut, to shape, to fasten, are
the same as they have always been...it is a simple process that
requires simplicity in the basic approach...don't overwork it. The
finest detail in wood is still only accomplished with a single edge of
steel and by hand.
Let's move on to another topic...
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
For all your unfounded rant, and lack of understanding, it would be a
safe bet that I have cleaned more sawdust out of my belly button than
you've ever made in shop...
If you are experiencing so much human error, that you need to seek
safety from your own machine, then obviously, that machine is not
setup properly. But, there is a limit to how much setup is required
to perform a basic task.
Twenty years ago, I made featherboards and push sticks, too...then, I
found a better way to do it. So, don't think you can one-up me by
twisting my words, and quoting the recommendations of some
self-proclaimed authority. That damned book you read was written by a
professional writer, not a woodworker.
In the woodworking business, you get paid to cut, shape, and fasten
the wood...you don't get paid for setup. Even if you are not a
professional, you should appreciate saving time at the work you do in
shop...yeah, there is the occasional kickback...so, what?
I can tell you, the last time I cut myself on the tablesaw was about
fifteen years ago. I felt that tingle, looked down and saw that if I
pulled my hand out I would loose the piece, it would kick back and be
ruined, or I could take that corner off my thumb and loose a little
skin and blood.
What do you think I did?
"Greg Millen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> we need a little philosophical discussion every now
> and again to broaden horizons and to expand the comfort zones. That is what
> he is driving at I believe, even the best of us should continue to learn and
> evolve in the craft, there is no single point that we reach where we can
> say - "I cannot improve any further". there are no absolutes and
> it's an evolving craft.
You're absolutely right, Greg, working wood is a lifelong
apprenticeship.
The last few years I have been in hiatus, between projects, to refresh
myself for what is to come...whatever that might be. I only know,
that the best is yet to come. But, for now, no pictures.
I spent time in the shop of a man who is winding up a forty-five year
apprenticeship as a guitar maker. He began the trade working for old
man Gibson, himself; became his protege, often eating Sunday dinner in
the Gibson family home. He has contracted a debilitating disease, and
I stepped in to assist in the completion of some contracts.
I worked on a couple of archtops, a number of acoustics, and a few
solid body twangers. It is an interesting product engineering, and an
even more interesting production engineering situation...still, a box
is just a box, but I learned something new everyday. Also, I met some
interesting celebrities.
Guitar prices ranged from five to fifteen grand, and one-spec built
went to a Minneapolis music store for ten grand...but, it was his
shop, his name, and his product, so no pictures.
Then, last winter, I went in search of the Appalachian craftsman, but
alas, it was just a myth. Funny though, one state has taken
possession of the myth and is trying to capitalize upon it, by
importing artists. It's going to be big business...so they think...if
only they can perpetrate that myth. But, none of the professional
program administrators, I talked with, had any understanding of the
concept of apprenticeship. After millions of dollars, it's a flop.
So, I am working on organizing a few projects on the 'puter, and
dispensing my dangerous and unbelievable advice for the heck of it; or
perhaps, I enjoy having pissants attack, so I can lambaste them with
boring philosophies.
Anyway, thanks to you, Greg, for your kind recommendations; I no
longer have the pictures, either; and to you Swingman, I enjoyed your
website. You seem to have acheived a high degree of competence in
your 325 sqft shop.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote
> What makes one so much more costly? Rarity of the materials? Labor? How
> much is for appearance versus tonal quality?
You have hit on most of the relevant factors.
The orgasm factor, or appearance, does not always denote rarity of
materials, although cost of material is, of course, factored in.
There are limited choices of material for certain parts on certain
guitars, and unlimited choices for other parts.
A solid body guitar, on the low end of the price scale, is rather hard
to screw up, because its tonal quality is based upon the applied
electronics, of which, there are a lot of choices. Price variables
are electronics, wood, finish, and the personal or generic complexity
of decoration.
The body design is mostly about comfort. The Les Paul series has
produced a different solid body design every other year, or so, for
the last fifty years. A man working alone can produce a one-off in
about three days; but, a five man crew could easily produce several
hundred a month.
The acoustic designs have been made for several centuries, and
engineering for tonal quality are, for the most part, known factors;
however, if you built five or ten guitars in a production situation,
utilizing the same materials, each would have a distinct tonal
quality. Maybe one in hundreds or even thousands would be considered
to be quite unique.
Even so, each guitar maker will tweak his design in various ways;
choice or thickness of material, structural aspects, depth of
curve...each seeking for that extra-ordinary sweetness in the tonal
quality. The man I know, after forty-five years of apprenticeship,
remembered and could count his special constructions on one
hand...think about that.
The archtop is undoubtedly the most personal of constructions. The
maker minutely scrapes the recurved top plate to develope or find the
instrument's voice. A man, who can do that...well, what can you say?
I may have performed the task, but I did it with his ears. There is a
very competent book on the subject; 'Making the Archtop Guitar' by
Robert Benedetto.
Price consideration is the same as with any other product. I suppose,
the important thing to remember, this was a handmaking shop...one of a
kind, one at a time...with a forty-five year history of success and a
famous clientele.
Thanks for asking.
Werlax wrote:
>
> I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones I've
> liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising. It seemed
> that it completely sat on the table top (without extending over the back)
> and was easy to remove without tools. I don't remember the manufacturer.
> Does anyone have a favorite?
> Thanks,
> Mark
The problem with that type of "splitter" is it can't tilt with the
blade .
The problem with fixed splitters is that they don't do much for you
on shallow cuts - too much room behind the teeth coming up out
of the saw table
Euro machine have a riving knife that wraps round the top rear
quarter of the saw blade - close - and moves with the blade as
you tilt it. Second photo here shows you one. this one's easy
to get on and off - loosen a bolt, pull it out, tighten the bolt
and cut.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/X31.html
charlie b
daclark wrote:
> The professional advise is don't use one.
> If the wood is binding up on your blade, the splitter is just another
> friction point. The releasing tension within the wood is going to
> produce a warp in either one or both boards, but this can be
> alleviated nine times out of ten.
> Lift the board out of the saw and restart the cut. The offending
> twist is eliminated and the secondary board is effectively
> straightlined in the process.
Bad advice is worse than giving no advice. Most instances
of what are called "kickbacks" start at the back of the
blade, when, for a variety of reasons, the stock at the
back of the blade makes contact with the teeth coming up
out of the table. That lifts the stock up into the teeth moving
towards YOU.
A riving knife, set close to, and wrapping around the
top rear quarter of, the saw blade significantly reduces
the area where the rear teeth and the cut stock can
come together, and then only during the initial part of
the cut when the kerf has not yet reached the riving
knife.
As for the friction produced by the riving knife, it's
less than the friction between the stock and the table
top and the fence if you're ripping.
To stop during a cut, be it a cross cut or a rip, you have
to a) control the stock with one hand while the other
goes for the OFF button and b) shift your attention from
the cutting to the OFF button (OK, so there are knee switches
and we probably should all have one but...). Either one
of those can make a bad situation even worse.
If an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure then
a pound of prevention is worth saving a digit or
other extremity. Prep the stock correctly, set up
the blade and the fence properly, use a riving knife
if you can, a splitter if you can't, use hold downs and
feather boards to keep the stock down flat on the table
and against the fence in front of the cut whenever
possible and use a push stick or push block if your
hand has to get with 4 or so inches of the spinning
sharp carbide things.
There are a lot of things that can cause a "kickback".
There are lots of things you can do to minimize
the likelyhood of kickback. The most important
is knowledge. If you understand the causes you
can take steps to protect yourself.
Here's some info that may give you a better understanding
of "kickback" and what you can do about it.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/KickBack1.html
After proper stock preparation, a riving knife, properly set,
is, IMHO, the second best way to reduce the probability of
experiencing a "kickback".
As for tension being released and causing "warp",
it may close the kerf but not likely enough to
actuall warp the board. The possibilities are
cup, twist, crook or bow or a combination that
perhaps you could call "warped" In any event
a feather board holding the fence side down on
the table will keep that side of the cut from
raising hell.
And if your stock is twisted for whatever reason
DO NOT try ripping it. Get the bottom flat, one
edge straight and square to the bottom BEFORE
trying to rip to width or to get the other edge
to parallel the one against the fence.
As for emulating "professionals" Sam Maloof
freehands all kinds of ways on a bandsaw. But
even he warns against doing it because it's
dangerous as hell. And I'm sure there are a
few "professionals" named Stubby one shouldn't
imitate either.
rant mode off
charlie b
daclark wrote:
>
> I am going to stand by the advise I gave, regardless of the rant.
OK
> Most binding occurs at the beginning of a rip,
I don't understand. If you mean the part between the
fence and the fence side of the blade - how? The
front teeth are removing the wood, the offset teeth
on the blade leave a kerf wider than the thickness
of the blade body, the blade body can't grab the wood
unless it's rusty as hell or covered in pitch, and the
piece being ripped hasn't reached the rear teeth yet.
On a 10 inch blade, even at maximum depth of cut,
your length of the exposed blade - at the table - isn't
much over 7 inches before you reach the rear teeth.
On shallower cuts - like 1/2" to 1" thick stock there's
even less exposed blade.
Even if the stock did have internal stresses which are
released when you begin the cut and the stock tried to
"cross its legs" (as opposed to spreading) - BEFORE
it got to the riving knife (or splitter) - if you've got a
hold down (feather board, Draw-Tite, Board Buddies
or whatever their called) to keep the stock down on the
table, and a feather board or the like to keep the stock
against the fence in front of the blade the board ain't
gonna fly. Of course it you're using a 5 tooth blade
with no set then all bets are off.
If on the other hand, the board was cupped and you
had the concave part down on the table, sure, as you
make the cut the part between the blade and the fence
can bind - BUT not at the beginning of the cut.
If the board is twisted, crooked or bowed the same
is likely to happen. BUT you shouldn't be ripping
boards like that on a table saw anyway - at least
not with a special jig.
So if what you're talking about is ripping a board
whose bottom isn't flat and the edge against the
fence isn't straight, prefereably with a square
corner between the bottom and the edge against
the fence, then using a splitter/riving knife or not
isn't what you need to worry about
> and the time to pull it
> is before the blade has come to a stop,
HUH?
If you're using feather boards, they discourage the
stock from traveling backwards - by design. If
you're not, pulling the board back from the blade
WHILE KEEPING IT AGAINST THE FENCE - while
the saw's still running - is a high risk proposition.
If you're willing to do that - well good luck.
> using the leverage that board
> length allows,
Leverage implies a fulcrum and rotation of the lever
on that fulcrum. Rotation in your example is the
last thing you want. Rotate the back of the stock
up and it's into the rear teeth - not good. Rotate
the front up with the back of the stock being the
fulcrum and you're pulling the stock up into the
rear teeth - also not good. If the fulcrum is
the back corner against the fence you're going
to ...
> and a splitter would only be in the way.
If the stock has reached the splitter, the splitter
will keep the kerf open and the stock away from
the rear teeth. It's "in the way" for exactly
that purpose.
> This does
> require an ear tuned to the sound of the cut, which experience will
> provide.
I totally agree that one should use ALL your senses to
sense when things are as they should be or when things
are starting to go wrong. You can hear when the pitch
of the saw changes, just as you sometimes can feel and
even smell when something's not right, even as a
relative newbie.
But it's the precautions you take BEFORE trouble
starts which are available to all, even those of
us who don't have a mile or two of ripping all kinds
of woods under our belts.
> In that regard, perhaps I expect too much of fledgling
> woodworkers.
Fortunately, we humans have developed the ability
to not only learn from others' experiences, but also
to use reason to avoid many of the "no one's ever
done this before" hazardous situations.
> I can assure you, Charlie, that after thirty-seven years of trade, I
> can still count ten digits.
And for that we're all thankful.
> And, I looked at your $6000 beast...it
> certainly has all the bells and whistles...
Actually, the Robland X31 is pretty primitive, with
rough edges where they don't matter and machined
surfaces where they do. And three of the five
functions - jointer, planer and saw are found in
even a fledgling's shop very early on. The shaper
often comes along as does a mortiser. When you
add up a 3hp table saw - with a sliding table, a
3 hp 12" jointer and planer you're in the $6K
range. So the shaper and mortiser are free.
Setting up this critter takes a lot more care and
time than the equivalent stand alones. Since
it's from Belgium the "manuals" are nearly
useless so I wrote my own and put it on my
site. Laguna Tools, who sells the unit in the
USA, refers customers to my site for set up
instructions and I get questions about the
X31 from many counties. I know my unit
a lot better than my car.
If you want whistles and bells in a combi you
better go with a Felder - digital read out
depth of cut on the planer, tilting shaper
head, linear sliding table and real pretty
paint and lots of shiny stuff. It'll set you
back another $10K but if you've got the money
and it makes you feel good - good for you.
> with your obvious fear of
> the machine and kickback experience, it looks to be the machine for
> you.
Please note that caution and respect are not fear.
I'm not afraid of the X31 or any other tool in my
shop - I just understand that they can hurt me
and so I study them to find out how and then take
precautions.
And I always try to stay alert for that little voice in
the back of my head that says "HEY! You're about
to do something stupid and dangerous!" And when
the hair on the back of my neck stands up, or I
sense myself tensing up I stop and figure out why.
> But, until we can all afford the expense of over designed
> equipments...
Forget that I spent $6K all at once and others may
spread it out over a year or two or three - you're
going to need a jointer and a planer early on. Your's
may all be Craftsman and only got $3000, if it
works for you that's great. It's using them - SAFELY
to make stuff out of wood that's the objective.
> The splitter will remain, in my not so humble opinion, to be an
> unnecessary appendage, that is more apt to interfere with my use of
> the machine and create an additional hazard to my safety by such
> interference.
The only time my riving knife isn't on the saw is when
I'm doing blind cuts. Then it gets in the way so it comes
off. Like Yogi says about insurance "You only need it
when you need it". Better to have it and not use it than
to need it and not have it.
Now if you want to talk about blade "guards" -well
that's a different issue.
> We all know, that the safety devices provided with every machine are a
> matter of litigational coverup. Therefore, when it comes to my
> personal safety, I will continue to rely upon common sense and manual
> dexterity over device every time...
To each his own. But advising someone whose knowledge, skills
abilities and experience you know little or nothing about to do
what you do with all your knowledge, skills and abilities
is what got me to jump into this thread. We are not all
born gifted or lucky. Some of us, myself included, have to
do what we can to improve our odds. For me, a riving knife
is a hedge bet - and a good one IMHO.
> and will rely upon my professional
> experience for the production of quality parts.
That's wonderful. Just be aware that not all of us are
gifted - or lucky ....
Let's agree to disagree on this one.
For the others, they'll make up their own mind.
respectfully
charlie b
"daclark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I am going to stand by the advise I gave, regardless of the rant.
"I'm sane - the rest of you are nuts!"
> Most binding occurs at the beginning of a rip, and the time to pull it
> is before the blade has come to a stop, using the leverage that board
> length allows, and a splitter would only be in the way.
Oh geez louise.
Would you stop?
I'm using Outlook and I think you're pushing the limits of my killfile.
> This does
> require an ear tuned to the sound of the cut, which experience will
> provide. In that regard, perhaps I expect too much of fledgling
> woodworkers.
<Mel Blanc>
"What a maroon!"
</Mel Blanc>
"daclark" wrote in message
> dexterity over device every time...and will rely upon my professional
> experience for the production of quality parts.
Not that we don't believe you, but you got any examples of these "quality
parts" you've produced that we can look at .. you know, just so as to add
further credence to your claim of professional experience and why your
professional advice should be heeded?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
charlie b wrote:
> Werlax wrote:
>>
> Euro machine have a riving knife that wraps round the top rear
> quarter of the saw blade - close - and moves with the blade as
> you tilt it. Second photo here shows you one. this one's easy
> to get on and off - loosen a bolt, pull it out, tighten the bolt
> and cut.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/X31.html
>
The riving knife looks promising, but I've seen that you can't retrofit it
to use on US Tablesaws. Is this still the case?
"daclark" wrote in message
> that the best is yet to come. But, for now, no pictures.
That's too bad ... hope you rectify that someday. Just gazing upon photo's
of Tom Plaman and Judson Beaumont's work is inspiring.
> I spent time in the shop of a man who is winding up a forty-five year
> apprenticeship as a guitar maker. He began the trade working for old
> man Gibson, himself; became his protege, often eating Sunday dinner in
> the Gibson family home. He has contracted a debilitating disease, and
> I stepped in to assist in the completion of some contracts.
> I worked on a couple of archtops, a number of acoustics, and a few
> solid body twangers. It is an interesting product engineering, and an
> even more interesting production engineering situation...still, a box
> is just a box, but I learned something new everyday. Also, I met some
> interesting celebrities.
> Guitar prices ranged from five to fifteen grand, and one-spec built
> went to a Minneapolis music store for ten grand...but, it was his
> shop, his name, and his product, so no pictures.
Understandable. Luthier's have always fascinated me but, even being a
musician, I've never had an interest in building instruments ... mainly
because I've felt that I couldn't devote sufficient time to the task to do
it justice. I've also recorded many "vintage" acoustic and electric
instruments, from Cremona cellos and violins to to my own 61 Fender Jazz
Bass, including many old Martin and Gibson guitars, and I can imagine the
challenges in "production" shops, particularly those dealing in acoustic
instruments.
> Then, last winter, I went in search of the Appalachian craftsman, but
> alas, it was just a myth. Funny though, one state has taken
> possession of the myth and is trying to capitalize upon it, by
> importing artists. It's going to be big business...so they think...if
> only they can perpetrate that myth. But, none of the professional
> program administrators, I talked with, had any understanding of the
> concept of apprenticeship. After millions of dollars, it's a flop.
I saw the tip of the iceberg in the apprenticeship system in England where,
for a brief summer around '65, I worked for a family that had been building
furniture and cabinets for close to 300 years. I was below the rank of
"apprentice", worked in the carpenter end that summer, but I garnered an
appreciation for the apprentice system in that short stint.
> So, I am working on organizing a few projects on the 'puter, and
> dispensing my dangerous and unbelievable advice for the heck of it; or
> perhaps, I enjoy having pissants attack, so I can lambaste them with
> boring philosophies.
LOL ... I can appreciate, and mostly sympthasize with, a contrarian'
viewpoint. :)
> Anyway, thanks to you, Greg, for your kind recommendations; I no
> longer have the pictures, either; and to you Swingman, I enjoyed your
> website. You seem to have acheived a high degree of competence in
> your 325 sqft shop.
Thanks for the kind words ... and good luck in your future endeavors.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (daclark) wrote:
>"Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> I've seen so many ads for splitters
>> Does anyone have a favorite?
>
>The professional advise is don't use one.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
>If the wood is binding up on your blade, the splitter is just another
>friction point. The releasing tension within the wood is going to
>produce a warp in either one or both boards, but this can be
>alleviated nine times out of ten.
No, the splitter is not "just another friction point." The splitter is there
to keep the board from contacting the teeth at the rear of the blade, which is
the principal cause of kickback.
Boards with significant internal tension are best used for firewood. If one
simply must use one, a bandsaw is a far safer choice for rip cuts.
>Lift the board out of the saw and restart the cut. The offending
>twist is eliminated and the secondary board is effectively
>straightlined in the process.
Dangerous and stupid advice. Lifting the board out of the saw is almost
guaranteed to produce a kickback.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
daclark wrote:
> "Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> I've seen so many ads for splitters
>> Does anyone have a favorite?
>
> The professional advise is don't use one.
> If the wood is binding up on your blade, the splitter is just another
> friction point. The releasing tension within the wood is going to
> produce a warp in either one or both boards, but this can be
> alleviated nine times out of ten.
> Lift the board out of the saw and restart the cut. The offending
> twist is eliminated and the secondary board is effectively
> straightlined in the process.
>
Wouldn't this assume that you noticed the case hardening and was able to
turn off the blade and lift the board out before it binds and kicks back?
I'm not that fast. ;)
"Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The riving knife looks promising, but I've seen that you can't retrofit it
> to use on US Tablesaws. Is this still the case?
Its a nice theory that requires a machine shop to implement on an american
design saw. Buy a European saw, hire a machine shop, or go with the
practical compromise and use a fixed splitter of some sort.
Bob
I like my biesemeyer but it's expensive.
Rob
"Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones I've
> liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising. It seemed
> that it completely sat on the table top (without extending over the back)
> and was easy to remove without tools. I don't remember the manufacturer.
> Does anyone have a favorite?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
"Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones
> I've liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising.
> It seemed that it completely sat on the table top (without extending
> over the back) and was easy to remove without tools. I don't remember
> the manufacturer. Does anyone have a favorite?
> Thanks,
> Mark
Delta makes such a product for their saws, as part of the overarm guard
package, or as a service part, which is how I have it installed on my saw.
Pull the throat insert, pull on one knob, and remove the splitter. 15
seconds to crosscut sled. Featured in a Kelly Mehler article in FWW a
couple of years ago, available on their website.
Maybe $30, ordered through the local dealer. First installation took more
time to remove the factory stock device than to install the new pieces.
You could also DAGS on a UnisawA100-initiated thread on making your own
zero clearance insert, with splitter. Cheap project. Funny thread. Watch
out for the tongue in cheek parts, but there's truth in there.
And then you can spend your hobby dollars on some fancy wood...
Patriarch
More Signal. Less Noise. (tmcharlieb)
[email protected] (daclark) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I am going to stand by the advise I gave,
<snip>
But you won't mind if we don't stand by your saw when you're working wood,
all right?
Patriarch,
who has a healthy respect for high speed projectiles...
"daclark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I felt that tingle, looked down and saw that if I
> pulled my hand out I would loose the piece, it would kick back and be
> ruined, or I could take that corner off my thumb and loose a little
> skin and blood.
> What do you think I did?
Orgasm?
daclark wrote:
> charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in message:
>
> Well, I guess I've caused quite a stir in this little pot; which is
> not what I wanted to do. I cannot demonstrate a physical action and
> reaction over a keyboard...it reminds me of one of my wives, who was
> always trying to get her brother to fix her car over the phone...and I
> am not going to defend myself against the guy who happened to read a
> book on the subject.
> I am going to try and put it into a context that we can all
> understand, and it is really quite simple. It is your responsiblity
> as the craftsman to control the machine and not let the machine
> control you. It is also your sole responsibility as the craftsman to
> have total control over the piece of wood in your hands.
> Featherboards and board buddies be damned...they just get in the way
> of your controlling the entire situation; they come between you and
> your responsibility. You as craftsman are the most significant safety
> device you have at your disposal.
> About two hundred years ago, a man named Eli Terry began utilizing a
> circular blade in the production of clockcases. This was one of the
> first production items ever made; and coincided with the advent of
> interchangable brass parts for the internal clockworks...before this,
> clockworks were individually hand made by the cabinetmaker. A man
> named Seth Thomas was an apprentice in Terry's shop. So, men have
> been using a tablesaw for some two-hundred years...without all the
> geegaws.
In 1890 Gottlieb Daimler was tooling around Germany in the first production
car in the world. I guess that that means that we should all be driving
cars identical to his, without all the geegaws like a roof and doors.
In any case, do you have any documentation that demonstrates that
featherboards and other movement-control devices were not used in Terry's
shop?
You are correct that ultimate responsibility lies with the craftsman, but
with power tools part of that responsibility lies in "setup", configuring
the tool to perform the particular task at hand, and that includes doing
whatever is necessary to control the movement of the stock so that it goes
where he wants it to go and not somewhere else. And if using "geegaws"
helps him control that movment then he is remiss in _not_ using them.
> Back in the seventies, I was offered a shop in Memphis that had been
> in business for over a century. It was fully equipped to make windows
> and doors, lineal moldings, cabinets, whatever...there was a molding
> machine that could make a six-inch crown, a platen sander that could
> finish a 42-inch door, an automated dovetailing machine...all the
> equipment was dated 1906.
So what? I fail to see how the existence of machinery at a certain date
bears upon the desirability of using devices such as featherboards to
control the movement of lumber through a saw.
> What I am trying to tell you here is, that every invention we use in
> shop today has been around since the industrial revolution...
So I guess that we should abandon this newfangled "electricity" crap and go
with good old fashioned water wheels.
> and ever
> since then, the yuppies of the day have tried to reinvent the wheel,
> just to sell you something;
You mentioned featherboards above as "geegaws". I use featherboards with
great regularity. I have never bought any and nobody has "sold" them to me
except in the sense that I have accepted a simple, obvious, and very
reasonable idea. Took about fifteen minutes to make them out of a couple
of scraps. The ones that you see in stores are the same basic concept,
molded in plastic or equipped with various kinds of attachment, that may or
may not be more convenient than the simple ones made from a scrap and held
down with a clamp or two, but they are hardly anything conceptually novel.
"Board Buddies" and the like are the same basic idea implemented in a
somewhat different matter.
I find myself wondering how it is that someone who has been in woodworking
at least since the 1970s has never seen a shop-made featherboard in use and
thinks that they are some new idea.
> only, a lot of times that wheel is square.
> It's a big joke; when you as craftsmen should be concentrating on
> technique and skill, derived from manual dexterity and common sense;
> the marketing plan of the major industrialists is to sell you their
> new invention.
>
> The first principles of working wood, to cut, to shape, to fasten, are
> the same as they have always been...it is a simple process that
> requires simplicity in the basic approach...don't overwork it. The
> finest detail in wood is still only accomplished with a single edge of
> steel and by hand.
So? Grok the concept--Olympic athlete in peak condition can for a brief
time using his whole body put out maybe 1.5 horsepower. Table saw motor
can put out two or more times that until Hell freezes over (or the bearings
die of old age, whichever come first) and somewhat more than that for a
brief time, and apply it all to the point of a blade tooth. In fight
between saw and operator, saw wins. When saw decides to throw stock at
you, you are _not_ going to be able to control that stock with your own
physical strength and if you haven't experienced a kickback in all the many
years of experience that you claim, then either you have not been working
with a powerful saw with circular blades or you have been a manager of some
sort who let others do the actual work or you are the luckiest SOB that
ever walked the earth. And if that last is the case then when karma
catches up with you you're probably going to need major surgery as a
result.
As for the "finest detail in wood" a carving chisel is not going to pick up
a piece of 16/4 ipe and throw it through the wall of your shop, which a
large saw is quite capable of doing.
> Let's move on to another topic...
No. Your advice, if followed, is eventually going to result in someone
getting hurt who if he had followed the more commonly recommended practice
of using movement-control devices (not necessarily store-bought)
appropriate to the task would not have gotten hurt.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
daclark wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> For all your unfounded rant, and lack of understanding, it would be a
> safe bet that I have cleaned more sawdust out of my belly button than
> you've ever made in shop...
I see, rather than counter the argument you launch a personal attack.
> If you are experiencing so much human error, that you need to seek
> safety from your own machine, then obviously, that machine is not
> setup properly.
Uh huh. So tell us how to set it up properly then. You're big on criticism
but not much on procedure, aren't you?
> But, there is a limit to how much setup is required to perform a basic
> task.
Yes, there is. However limited setup is not the same as no setup.
> Twenty years ago, I made featherboards and push sticks, too...then, I
> found a better way to do it.
And that "better way" is?
> So, don't think you can one-up me by
> twisting my words, and quoting the recommendations of some
> self-proclaimed authority.
"Twisting your words"? You're the one who said that featherboards were a
"geegaw" fostered by "yuppies". If that is not what you meant then you
should not have said it.
> That damned book you read was written by a
> professional writer, not a woodworker.
Which book was that?
> In the woodworking business, you get paid to cut, shape, and fasten
> the wood...you don't get paid for setup.
That's funny, I was laboring under the mistaken impression that you got paid
for a finished product. Silly me.
> Even if you are not a
> professional, you should appreciate saving time at the work you do in
> shop...yeah, there is the occasional kickback...so, what?
So you've clearly never worked with a saw of any real power. You claim that
one is not paid to do setup. Well one is not paid to sit in the emergency
room either.
> I can tell you, the last time I cut myself on the tablesaw was about
> fifteen years ago.
Probably the last time you used one too. See, anybody can take a cheap
shot.
> I felt that tingle, looked down and saw that if I
> pulled my hand out I would loose the piece, it would kick back and be
> ruined, or I could take that corner off my thumb and loose a little
> skin and blood.
> What do you think I did?
"If you pulled you hand out you would loose the piece, it would kick back
and be ruined?"
Now why, pray tell, would it kick back when you took your hand off of it if
it had not kicked back with your hand on it?
In any case, it is clear that you are unable to defend your statements in
any rational fashion, instead choosing to use the argument "me heap big
woodworker, me know all, anybody who disagree with me heap big idiot".
<plonk>
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Bernie Hunt" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've been using one of these for a couple of weeks now and have been
> pleased.
> http://www.microjig.com/MJ%20Splitter.htm
> and at $15 it doesn't break the bank.
>
>
I also like this splitter, it is no intrusive enough I go out of my
way to put it on, and with board buddies I can literally stop the cut
halfway and the piece to the right of the blade will have NO saw marks
at all with my WWII.
The microjig splitter is also short enough, that I can use it with my
cross cut sled.
Alan
Last year he posted some work he was doing on ABPF. A series of
carvings-in-progress that gave you that "Wile E. Coyote tongue falling on
the ground, hang dog, ain't never gonna catch him" feeling. Similar to
looking at Tom Plamann's work - good for the soul, bad for the ego type
stuff.
I had a scrounge around my archives but couldn't find it, I was a little
disappointed as I'm sure I had saved it in the Keepers Folder. Imagine when
I peek in there and only found 1 (ONE) post - grrrr. I don't know what
happened to them, I guess I'll spend the next few hours dumpster-diving into
old archives and directories (folders for the non-DOS).
All this assumes daclarke is actually the real DA. It is getting hard to
tell recently, though it seems likely it is him, the trolls are not as
articulate. I hope so, we need a little philosophical discussion every now
and again to broaden horizons and to expand the comfort zones. That is what
he is driving at I believe, even the best of us should continue to learn and
evolve in the craft, there is no single point that we reach where we can
say - "I cannot improve any further". It is not like age, where we can state
"We are as young as we are ever going to get", there are no absolutes and
it's an evolving craft.
Anyway, I seem to have strolled off down another path, so, I'll get back on
track by saying I hope he posts some of his work.
cheers,
Greg
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Greg Millen" wrote in message
> > Swingman,
> >
> > I have seen some of his work and it is first class. Suffice to say,
> > regardless of whether you like what he says, or how he says it, he knows
> his
> > stuff and 'walks the talk'.
>
> Your word is good enough for me, Greg. But you're right ...the proof of
the
> talk, is the walk ...and what I do like is to actually gaze upon the works
> of professional woodworkers, whether in person, or in picture.
>
> > I also hope he posts some more of his work, it's inspiring.
>
> "some more" ... I must of missed that, where?
>
> I am glad to hear that, as inspiration is in short supply around here and,
> in particular, at my shop. All the more reason to ask for examples on a
> website, or ABPW, or anywhere?
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 5/15/04
>
>
"daclark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Guitar prices ranged from five to fifteen grand, and one-spec built
> went to a Minneapolis music store for ten grand...but, it was his
> shop, his name, and his product, so no pictures.
What makes one so much more costly? Rarity of the materials? Labor? How
much is for appearance versus tonal quality?
Ed
"Greg Millen" wrote in message
> Swingman,
>
> I have seen some of his work and it is first class. Suffice to say,
> regardless of whether you like what he says, or how he says it, he knows
his
> stuff and 'walks the talk'.
Your word is good enough for me, Greg. But you're right ...the proof of the
talk, is the walk ...and what I do like is to actually gaze upon the works
of professional woodworkers, whether in person, or in picture.
> I also hope he posts some more of his work, it's inspiring.
"some more" ... I must of missed that, where?
I am glad to hear that, as inspiration is in short supply around here and,
in particular, at my shop. All the more reason to ask for examples on a
website, or ABPW, or anywhere?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
I've been using one of these for a couple of weeks now and have been
pleased.
http://www.microjig.com/MJ%20Splitter.htm
and at $15 it doesn't break the bank.
"Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've seen so many ads for splitters that I can't recall which ones I've
> liked. I recently saw one in a magazine that looked promising. It seemed
> that it completely sat on the table top (without extending over the back)
> and was easy to remove without tools. I don't remember the manufacturer.
> Does anyone have a favorite?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
"daclark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The archtop is undoubtedly the most personal of constructions. The
> maker minutely scrapes the recurved top plate to develope or find the
> instrument's voice. A man, who can do that...well, what can you say?
You can probably say that people aare willing to pay handsoly to have an
instrument made like that.
> Price consideration is the same as with any other product. I suppose,
> the important thing to remember, this was a handmaking shop...one of a
> kind, one at a time...with a forty-five year history of success and a
> famous clientele.
You have to admire sommmeone with that kind of skill.
> Thanks for asking.
Thanks for answering.
Ed
"daclark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Werlax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I've seen so many ads for splitters
> > Does anyone have a favorite?
>
> The professional advise is don't use one.
> If the wood is binding up on your blade, the splitter is just another
> friction point. The releasing tension within the wood is going to
> produce a warp in either one or both boards, but this can be
> alleviated nine times out of ten.
> Lift the board out of the saw and restart the cut. The offending
> twist is eliminated and the secondary board is effectively
> straightlined in the process.
This is fantastically bad advice. If it works for you, great, but don't go
passing it off as good advice for everyone. I'll take my advice from Kelly
Mehler, they guy who literally wrote the book on table saws and is very
concerned with table saw safety, which is to use a riving knife if you can,
or a splitter if you can't.
todd