Dado Recommendation

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 02:20:30 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>The Good Guy has run out of throwing stars (Oh, NO!!), and just as
>the Bad Guys are closing in, he and Pretty Girl run past a pile of blades for
>portable circular saws (which just conveniently happened to be laying there).
>Good Guy grabs some and throws them at the Bad Guys, stopping them in their
>tracks. Good Guy turns to Pretty Girl and says, deadpan -- and I swear I'm not
>making this up, he really said this -- "Thank God for Black and Decker."

Well obviously. If they'd been using better quality tools they
wouldn't have needed to have whole piles of them lying around, would
they? Plus if that had been a Festool circular saw the Good Guy would
have been obligated to stop and play with it, thus getting the Pretty
Girl kidnapped.


-Leuf

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Tim Taylor"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Matthias Muehe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Doug Miller schrieb:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Matthias Muehe wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>>>>>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>>>>> What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>>>>
>>>> I'm guessing from his name that English is not Herr Muehe's first
>>>> language, but German is -- and probably he means safety issues; the
>>>> word
>>>> in German is the same ("sicherheit").
>>>>
>>> shame on me; thanks for the correction
>
> Es war nur eine kleine Fehler. Wahrscheinlich ist Ihr Englisch viel besser
> als
> meinen Deutsch.
>>>
>>> Matthias
>>Damn guys, give the fellow a break!
>>Looks like you posted the question to the wrong group, if you want my
>>opinion! All you've gotten so far is useless nonsense about how you say
>>something, pronounce something, and crap like that.
>
> What are you talking about? Particularly, why say that in response to
> *me*?
> All I did was to explain to someone else why a (presumably) non-native
> speaker
> of English might have written "security" when he meant "safety".
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I'm not. Forgive me, or rather this stupid ass ISP. They screwed up again!!
Disregard things that look out of place, because they are. Wasn't my fault.
Well I guess it is, I should really get a better news reader.

Matthias Muehe wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>
> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.

What security issues would they have with dado blades??

R

Matthias Muehe wrote:
> RicodJour schrieb:
> > Matthias Muehe wrote:
> >> Hello Folks,
> >>
> >> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
> >> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
> >> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
> >
> > What security issues would they have with dado blades??
> >
> > R
> >
>
> All tools with manual feed used in commercial environments must have a
> chip thickness control/limitation as otherwise something could get
> caught and fire back. AFAIK this is the reason. This would not
> necessaryly apply for private use, but the commercial market is gone ....

OK, now I understand you. I had mental images of terrorists throwing
dado blades around like a ninja's shuriken.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=shuriken&gwp=16

R

Tim Taylor wrote:
> Damn guys, give the fellow a break!
> Looks like you posted the question to the wrong group, if you want my
> opinion! All you've gotten so far is useless nonsense about how you say
> something, pronounce something, and crap like that. Then they start off with
> other useless, pointless nonsense and forget about your, the original
> poster's question. I'll try and help.
>
> http://forrestman.stores.yahoo.net/index.html
>
> I've gotten quite a bit of stuff there.
>
> BTW, it matters not what others interrupt, you know what you mean.

Bob answered his question succinctly and included a couple of links to
two different manufacturers, including Forrest, within an hour of the
OP's original post, so I'm not sure what you mean about useless
nonsense.

R

Doug Miller wrote:
>
> The Good Guy has run out of throwing stars (Oh, NO!!), and just as
> the Bad Guys are closing in, he and Pretty Girl run past a pile of blades for
> portable circular saws (which just conveniently happened to be laying there).
> Good Guy grabs some and throws them at the Bad Guys, stopping them in their
> tracks. Good Guy turns to Pretty Girl and says, deadpan -- and I swear I'm not
> making this up, he really said this -- "Thank God for Black and Decker."

Have you ever scaled a circular saw blade at a tree? It's lots more
fun than a frisbee.

R

Tex wrote:


> >
> So did I, re: the terrorists. Now, I get the picture of a Nannie State
> I would simply have to refuse to live in. However, I'm afraid the good
> ole' U.S. is getting to be just like so many little pitiful countries
> with such laws/rules. God!, maybe I just oughta be thankful I grew up
> in the 50's and maybe I'll be lucky enough to have enjoyed a good life
> and be dead before that sorry state of affairs finally comes to pass
> here. SHEEZ! --controlling dado blades! What a CROCK!!
>
> TEX
>
> P.S. - Watch out for that 60 grit sandpaper - it just might nick a
> fingernail.

I agree 100 per cent about the Nanny State stuff, on the other hand
it's
good to be aware of the damage a dado setup can do. As part of your
community service and classroom time children I'll describe something
I did as a novice - The 5 blades were set up for dadoing and in the
meantime I needed to rip a board. The amount of waste didn't matter
and I didn't feel like changing the blade, so I began the rip. The
wood
began to warp and there was a big boom! and the piece flew into my
solar plexus, knocking the wind out of me. The next day I noticed that
the blade was out of parallel with the table. The force of the wood
jamming against the blade actually bent the trunnion of the saw!

"Matthias Muehe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Are you aware of sets for 30mm arbors or a commercial source for 5/8 to
> 30 mm adaptors?

Forrest will do custom arbor sizes for their dado sets. Their sets are very
good.

http://forrestman.stores.yahoo.net/fordad.html

Amanatool will also do 30 mm bores

http://www.amanatool.com/blades/reboringservices.html

Bob

"Roy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Matthias,
>
> I'm a hobbyist. I have the cheaper Freud set (about $100 street price),
> and I don't understand how
> another brand could be better. But I don't run nearly the number of feet
> of dados in a year that
> some of the others here do. Maybe after another year or two I could see
> some deterioration, but
> right now it cuts flat bottoms, I've had it a couple of years and am
> delighted.
>
> I don't see how a Forrest (as someone else recommended) could be much
> better than the Freud, but
> I've never used one. However, I do have a Forrest WW2 on my table say.
> It performs so much
> better than any other blade I've used, maybe I am missing something on the
> dado set.

A great blade can be limited by the equipment it is mounted on.
If your equipment is not built or set up to the same tolerances as the blade
you may never see the blades full potential. Additionally, will the $100
Forrest hold up as long as the Forrest?

"Prometheus" wrote in message

> That's been my experience with the Freud products. Not saying Forrest
> isn't better, but it's hard to say *how* it is better, unless it's
> just bragging rights...

Fairly common with table saw blades is the fact that the less expensive
sets, even within the same brand name, will not be able to go through as
many sharpening cycles as their more expensive brethren and still maintain a
superior cut.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06

"Matthias Muehe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Miller schrieb:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Matthias Muehe wrote:
>>>> Hello Folks,
>>>>
>>>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set
>>>> for
>>>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>>>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>>> What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>>
>> I'm guessing from his name that English is not Herr Muehe's first
>> language, but German is -- and probably he means safety issues; the word
>> in German is the same ("sicherheit").
>>
>>
> shame on me; thanks for the correction
>
> Matthias
Damn guys, give the fellow a break!
Looks like you posted the question to the wrong group, if you want my
opinion! All you've gotten so far is useless nonsense about how you say
something, pronounce something, and crap like that. Then they start off with
other useless, pointless nonsense and forget about your, the original
poster's question. I'll try and help.

http://forrestman.stores.yahoo.net/index.html

I've gotten quite a bit of stuff there.

BTW, it matters not what others interrupt, you know what you mean.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Matthias Muehe wrote:
> > RicodJour schrieb:
> > > Matthias Muehe wrote:
> > >> Hello Folks,
> > >>
> > >> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
> > >> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
> > >> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
> > >
> > > What security issues would they have with dado blades??
> > >
> > > R
> > >
> >
> > All tools with manual feed used in commercial environments must have a
> > chip thickness control/limitation as otherwise something could get
> > caught and fire back. AFAIK this is the reason. This would not
> > necessaryly apply for private use, but the commercial market is gone ....
>
> OK, now I understand you. I had mental images of terrorists throwing
> dado blades around like a ninja's shuriken.
> http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=shuriken&gwp=16
>
> R
>
>
So did I, re: the terrorists. Now, I get the picture of a Nannie State
I would simply have to refuse to live in. However, I'm afraid the good
ole' U.S. is getting to be just like so many little pitiful countries
with such laws/rules. God!, maybe I just oughta be thankful I grew up
in the 50's and maybe I'll be lucky enough to have enjoyed a good life
and be dead before that sorry state of affairs finally comes to pass
here. SHEEZ! --controlling dado blades! What a CROCK!!

TEX

P.S. - Watch out for that 60 grit sandpaper - it just might nick a
fingernail.

In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10 Jun 2006 08:05:25 -0700, "RicodJour" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Matthias Muehe wrote:
>>> Hello Folks,
>>>
>>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
>>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>>
>>What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>
>They don't want ninja terrorists getting ahold of them and using them
>as throwing stars.

Years ago, I was watching a low-budget martial arts movie on TV, one of those
films that's so bad it's good because it's unintentionally funny... and in one
scene, the Bad Guys are chasing the Good Guy and the Pretty Girl through a
warehouse. The Good Guy has run out of throwing stars (Oh, NO!!), and just as
the Bad Guys are closing in, he and Pretty Girl run past a pile of blades for
portable circular saws (which just conveniently happened to be laying there).
Good Guy grabs some and throws them at the Bad Guys, stopping them in their
tracks. Good Guy turns to Pretty Girl and says, deadpan -- and I swear I'm not
making this up, he really said this -- "Thank God for Black and Decker."



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Years ago, I was watching a low-budget martial arts movie on TV, one of
> those
> films that's so bad it's good because it's unintentionally funny... and in
> one
> scene, the Bad Guys are chasing the Good Guy and the Pretty Girl through a
> warehouse. The Good Guy has run out of throwing stars (Oh, NO!!), and just
> as
> the Bad Guys are closing in, he and Pretty Girl run past a pile of blades
> for
> portable circular saws (which just conveniently happened to be laying
> there).
> Good Guy grabs some and throws them at the Bad Guys, stopping them in
> their
> tracks. Good Guy turns to Pretty Girl and says, deadpan -- and I swear I'm
> not
> making this up, he really said this -- "Thank God for Black and Decker."
>
>
You would have thought that Black and Decker would have grabbed this up and
used it for a commercial.

Since their target audience is probably the same guys who watch this sort of
thing.

(Sorry about that Doug)

As 30mm is far larger than 5/8, an adapter would not be possible. While any
of the manufacturer would probably custom bore a set to your specifications,
Forrest is most likely to do it reasonabley.

"Matthias Muehe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello Folks,
>
> During my next trip to the US, I’m planning to get a dado cutter set for
> my TS (4 HP, max. 12” blades). Unfortunately, we can’t get the
> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
> Two questions:
> What is your recommendation for a good quality set which can be mail
> ordered in advance to the address of a friend in the US?
> Are you aware of sets for 30mm arbors or a commercial source for 5/8 to
> 30 mm adaptors?
>
> TIA
>
> Matthias

"Matthias Muehe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello Folks,
>
> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the affordable
> ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
> Two questions:
> What is your recommendation for a good quality set which can be mail
> ordered in advance to the address of a friend in the US?
> Are you aware of sets for 30mm arbors or a commercial source for 5/8 to 30
> mm adaptors?
>
> TIA
>
> Matthias
>

I have a 10" dado set for my 12" 5hp table saw, I also needed a 1"-5/8"
adapter. I got mine from Ridge Carbide (www.ridgecarbidetool.com) it came
with the adaptor. I don't use it commercially but see no reason you
couldn't. They could make you a set with a custom arbor size I just did not
need it for my usage. I would deal with them again.

Just a satisfied customer

Andrew

Tex wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> Matthias Muehe wrote:
>> > RicodJour schrieb:
>> > > Matthias Muehe wrote:
>> > >> Hello Folks,
>> > >>
>> > >> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set
>> > >> for my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>> > >> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>> > >
>> > > What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>> > >
>> > > R
>> > >
>> >
>> > All tools with manual feed used in commercial environments must have a
>> > chip thickness control/limitation as otherwise something could get
>> > caught and fire back. AFAIK this is the reason. This would not
>> > necessaryly apply for private use, but the commercial market is gone
>> > ....
>>
>> OK, now I understand you. I had mental images of terrorists throwing
>> dado blades around like a ninja's shuriken.
>> http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=shuriken&gwp=16
>>
>> R
>>
>>
> So did I, re: the terrorists. Now, I get the picture of a Nannie State
> I would simply have to refuse to live in. However, I'm afraid the good
> ole' U.S. is getting to be just like so many little pitiful countries
> with such laws/rules. God!, maybe I just oughta be thankful I grew up
> in the 50's and maybe I'll be lucky enough to have enjoyed a good life
> and be dead before that sorry state of affairs finally comes to pass
> here. SHEEZ! --controlling dado blades! What a CROCK!!

Apparently they have some kind of regulation about how fast the saw has to
stop and dado blades add enough inertia that the saw won't stop within the
allowed time.

Fellow I used to work with came to the US in the early 40s due to having the
good fortune to survive an encounter with the 82nd Airborne. A few years
ago he went back to Germany to visit relatives--first time he had been back
since he was captured. His comment was that they lived really well, had
nice houses, beautiful furniture, and there wasn't enough money in the
whole world to induce him to move back there.

> TEX
>
> P.S. - Watch out for that 60 grit sandpaper - it just might nick a
> fingernail.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 10 Jun 2006 08:05:25 -0700, "RicodJour" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Matthias Muehe wrote:
>> Hello Folks,
>>
>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>
>What security issues would they have with dado blades??

They don't want ninja terrorists getting ahold of them and using them
as throwing stars.

In article <[email protected]>, "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Matthias Muehe wrote:
>> Hello Folks,
>>
>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>
>What security issues would they have with dado blades??

I'm guessing from his name that English is not Herr Muehe's first language,
but German is -- and probably he means safety issues; the word in German is
the same ("sicherheit").


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article <[email protected]>, "Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Matthias Muehe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Doug Miller schrieb:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Matthias Muehe wrote:
>>>>> Hello Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set
>>>>> for
>>>>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>>>>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>>>> What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>>>
>>> I'm guessing from his name that English is not Herr Muehe's first
>>> language, but German is -- and probably he means safety issues; the word
>>> in German is the same ("sicherheit").
>>>
>> shame on me; thanks for the correction

Es war nur eine kleine Fehler. Wahrscheinlich ist Ihr Englisch viel besser als
meinen Deutsch.
>>
>> Matthias
>Damn guys, give the fellow a break!
>Looks like you posted the question to the wrong group, if you want my
>opinion! All you've gotten so far is useless nonsense about how you say
>something, pronounce something, and crap like that.

What are you talking about? Particularly, why say that in response to *me*?
All I did was to explain to someone else why a (presumably) non-native speaker
of English might have written "security" when he meant "safety".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

RicodJour schrieb:
> Matthias Muehe wrote:
>> Hello Folks,
>>
>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>
> What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>
> R
>

All tools with manual feed used in commercial environments must have a
chip thickness control/limitation as otherwise something could get
caught and fire back. AFAIK this is the reason. This would not
necessaryly apply for private use, but the commercial market is gone ....

Matthias

Doug Miller schrieb:
> In article <[email protected]>, "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Matthias Muehe wrote:
>>> Hello Folks,
>>>
>>> During my next trip to the US, I'm planning to get a dado cutter set for
>>> my TS (4 HP, max. 12" blades). Unfortunately, we can't get the
>>> affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>> What security issues would they have with dado blades??
>
> I'm guessing from his name that English is not Herr Muehe's first language,
> but German is -- and probably he means safety issues; the word in German is
> the same ("sicherheit").
>
>
shame on me; thanks for the correction

Matthias

At least in Germany, they can have them. In the UK, they can't sell a table
saw with an arbor long enough to take a dado blade.

"Tex" <tex@my_isp.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So did I, re: the terrorists. Now, I get the picture of a Nannie State
> I would simply have to refuse to live in. However, I'm afraid the good
> ole' U.S. is getting to be just like so many little pitiful countries
> with such laws/rules. God!, maybe I just oughta be thankful I grew up
> in the 50's and maybe I'll be lucky enough to have enjoyed a good life
> and be dead before that sorry state of affairs finally comes to pass
> here. SHEEZ! --controlling dado blades! What a CROCK!!
>
> TEX
>
> P.S. - Watch out for that 60 grit sandpaper - it just might nick a
> fingernail.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:14:07 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Prometheus" wrote in message
>
>> That's been my experience with the Freud products. Not saying Forrest
>> isn't better, but it's hard to say *how* it is better, unless it's
>> just bragging rights...
>
>Fairly common with table saw blades is the fact that the less expensive
>sets, even within the same brand name, will not be able to go through as
>many sharpening cycles as their more expensive brethren and still maintain a
>superior cut.

Ahh, I see. I guess it's just one of those things where I'm inclined
to think the Freuds are good enough, despite the assertion I've seen
that Forrest is a better brand. I've been running a Diablo for about
three years, and it still hasn't needed a sharpening- so even if it
can't be resharpened at all (unlikely at best, but you never know) I'm
not going to lose any sleep over $40 every three or four years.

And the other side of the more/less expensive argument is that one of
my Freuds (not the Diablo, of course) costs more than the low end
Forrest anyhow. Ditto for the suggested retail price on the laminate
blade I got from Delta. The question has to arise as to which is
better then, as the "you get what you pay for" argument seems to be
the one that most commonly gets used when it comes to blades and bits.

Of course, I'm not running production, either- at most that blade gets
run is about 15 hours a week. I might change my tune if my home
shop's blades are ever called on to run 40+ hours a week. But until
they do, it'll be a moot point. I can't see worrying about a blade
that leaves glassy-smooth cuts on hardwood because it doesn't have a
reputation of being the absolute best. :)

Now back to the OP- you said you can't buy a dado stack because of
security (safety?) issues. So will you be able to get the thing
sharpened, or is it a one-shot sort of thing? It may well be worth
your while to go for the best set (which is the Forrest, by general
concensus) to limit furtively searching for someone to tune the blades
up if the saw sharpeners are not allowed to work on them. AFAIK,
Forrest does the sharpening and re-truing on their own sets via mail.

On the other hand, Europe isn't that big- and Freud is based in Italy.
Can't you buy a dado stack factory direct and bring it home in your
luggage? Or don't they sell them there, either?

Matthias,

I'm a hobbyist. I have the cheaper Freud set (about $100 street price), and I don't understand how
another brand could be better. But I don't run nearly the number of feet of dados in a year that
some of the others here do. Maybe after another year or two I could see some deterioration, but
right now it cuts flat bottoms, I've had it a couple of years and am delighted.

I don't see how a Forrest (as someone else recommended) could be much better than the Freud, but
I've never used one. However, I do have a Forrest WW2 on my table say. It performs so much
better than any other blade I've used, maybe I am missing something on the dado set.

Regards,
Roy

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:55:58 GMT, Matthias Muehe <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hello Folks,
>
>During my next trip to the US, I’m planning to get a dado cutter set for
>my TS (4 HP, max. 12” blades). Unfortunately, we can’t get the
>affordable ones any more here in Germany for security reasons.
>Two questions:
>What is your recommendation for a good quality set which can be mail
>ordered in advance to the address of a friend in the US?
>Are you aware of sets for 30mm arbors or a commercial source for 5/8 to
>30 mm adaptors?
>
>TIA
>
>Matthias

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:58:21 GMT, Roy <[email protected]> wrote:

>Matthias,
>
>I'm a hobbyist. I have the cheaper Freud set (about $100 street price), and I don't understand how
>another brand could be better. But I don't run nearly the number of feet of dados in a year that
>some of the others here do. Maybe after another year or two I could see some deterioration, but
>right now it cuts flat bottoms, I've had it a couple of years and am delighted.
>
>I don't see how a Forrest (as someone else recommended) could be much better than the Freud, but
>I've never used one. However, I do have a Forrest WW2 on my table say. It performs so much
>better than any other blade I've used, maybe I am missing something on the dado set.

That's been my experience with the Freud products. Not saying Forrest
isn't better, but it's hard to say *how* it is better, unless it's
just bragging rights...

>Regards,
>Roy

"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> Bob answered his question succinctly and included a couple of links to
> two different manufacturers, including Forrest, within an hour of the
> OP's original post, so I'm not sure what you mean about useless
> nonsense.
>
> R
>

Perhaps English is not Tim's first language and misunderstood Bob's comment
and or question.