I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
table saw
and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
Am I asking too much from this saw?
Should I use a straight ripping blade?
Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
Appreciate any suggestions.
ThankX
Ron
Ron wrote:
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
Crikey... I know Sears lies about horsepower, but I don't imagine your saw
could be any more anemic than mine. I have a Skil 3400 benchtop. I'm
running a 40-tooth blade I think, Freud TK960. I've cut lots of stuff much
bigger than 3/4" on it, up to resawing 2x4s and even 4x4 poplar timbers.
Sounds like maybe
* you're feeding too fast
* your rip fence isn't parallel to the blade
* your blade isn't perpendicular to the table, and it's tilted toward the
fence
* you're running without the splitter, and the kerf is closing up on the far
side
Giving your saw a tuneup might really help. For some reason, I was
convinced that my saw was just a useless piece of junk, and I never
bothered to try to get it to work better. It still isn't a very good
machine, but a couple days spent fiddling with it made a world of
difference. It's at least useful now, and a lot better than nothing.
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
It would probably help. With a 50-tooth blade, I'd imagine you'd have to
feed even more slowly than I do, and I have to go slow and easy on rips
through thick materials. I do get some burning too, just not nearly as bad
as I used to.
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
That's pretty much it. Lower = safer, less tooth exposure. Higher = less
strain on the anemic motor, and I think (think, mind you, I might be wrong)
less risk of a kickback.
> I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
Feh. If my piece of crap is worthy of a Freud blade, anything is. Putting
a "better" quality blade on it really helped. I don't think it would have
been wise to put a Forrest WWII on the thing though.
> Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
I know that feeling. Of late, I *am* using real wood for stuff, and it
hurts a lot more when I screw up. It's a lot more rewarding though when I
get something almost sort of close to right. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Ron wrote:
>
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
> I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
> Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>
> ThankX
> Ron
Are you running the saw off an extension cord? If so, what guage & what
distance?
Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54>...
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
> I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
> Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>
> ThankX
> Ron
Ron, check the belt tension, put a rip blade in your saw. If the belt
is loose you won't get full power to the saw. You still should be able
to rip 3/4" poplar with a sharp combination blade. Use a rip blade if
you have more than a couple of rips.
mike
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> That can add to the problem. Depending on the age of the fridge, it can be
> sucking more juice than the saw. FWIW, I had an extra old Fridge, about
> 10
> cu ft. Replaced it with a new 18 cu ft frost free and my electric bill
> dropped $10 a month.
Plus they're so *nice* now. All glass inside, well-designed shelves, doors
that can hold useful things, even at the bottom of the price spectrum. I
was floored when our old '70-something fridge died and I had to go look at
replacements.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54...
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
Something is wrong, especially for 3 HP. My 1 1/2 hp saw will cut 2" thick
with just some slowing down. 3/4" goes like nothing at all. If you have
burning you may have mis-alignment and that can cause some problems.
Things to check:
Defective blade
Saw badly mis-aligned (blade, fence, or both)
Slipping belt
Ed Pawlowski writes:
>> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
>> table saw
>> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>>
>> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
>> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>>
>> Am I asking too much from this saw?
>> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
>Something is wrong, especially for 3 HP. My 1 1/2 hp saw will cut 2" thick
>with just some slowing down. 3/4" goes like nothing at all. If you have
>burning you may have mis-alignment and that can cause some problems.
>
>Things to check:
>Defective blade
>Saw badly mis-aligned (blade, fence, or both)
>Slipping belt
Or the wrong blade. A 50 tooth blade is NOT a rip blade. The smallest tooth
I've seen on a 10" finish rip blade is in the 40 tooth pattern. Most finish rip
blades have 30 teeth and glue line rips have 30 to 24 teeth. Combination blades
with 50 teeth are going to struggle in ripping.
To me, it makes sense to use the correct blade for the job.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
Speaking as a person who has an old craftsman with a 1 HP
motor, he's got a problem. I don't have any rip blades,
(well, I do but I haven't used it), I use combination or
cross cut blades. Most of the time I use a 40 tooth
carbide, Sometimes a thinner 60 tooth, cheap blade and 3/4
inch stuff moves right through. Even when I use a hollow
ground planer blade for glue ups, I don't have Ron's
problem. It sounds like he has the blade too high, but that
still wouldn't be the main problem. I run 1 and 1/2 stuff
through my saw with no problem. My bet is that there is
something wrong with the blade, even he doesn't have
problems with other blades.
Charlie Self wrote:
>
> Ed Pawlowski writes:
>
> >> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> >> table saw
> >> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
> >>
> >> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> >> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
> >>
> >> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> >> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
> >
> >Something is wrong, especially for 3 HP. My 1 1/2 hp saw will cut 2" thick
> >with just some slowing down. 3/4" goes like nothing at all. If you have
> >burning you may have mis-alignment and that can cause some problems.
> >
> >Things to check:
> >Defective blade
> >Saw badly mis-aligned (blade, fence, or both)
> >Slipping belt
>
> Or the wrong blade. A 50 tooth blade is NOT a rip blade. The smallest tooth
> I've seen on a 10" finish rip blade is in the 40 tooth pattern. Most finish rip
> blades have 30 teeth and glue line rips have 30 to 24 teeth. Combination blades
> with 50 teeth are going to struggle in ripping.
>
> To me, it makes sense to use the correct blade for the job.
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
> pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
>
>
>
>
I believe the saw came with 2 - 36 tooth blades.
I'll put the as yet unused / new blade on an give it a try.
I'll check the alignment again after I install it.
ThankX again,
Ron
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Pawlowski writes:
>
> >> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears
3HP
> >> table saw
> >> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
> >>
> >> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> >> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
> >>
> >> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> >> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
> >
> >Something is wrong, especially for 3 HP. My 1 1/2 hp saw will cut 2"
thick
> >with just some slowing down. 3/4" goes like nothing at all. If you have
> >burning you may have mis-alignment and that can cause some problems.
> >
> >Things to check:
> >Defective blade
> >Saw badly mis-aligned (blade, fence, or both)
> >Slipping belt
>
> Or the wrong blade. A 50 tooth blade is NOT a rip blade. The smallest
tooth
> I've seen on a 10" finish rip blade is in the 40 tooth pattern. Most
finish rip
> blades have 30 teeth and glue line rips have 30 to 24 teeth. Combination
blades
> with 50 teeth are going to struggle in ripping.
>
> To me, it makes sense to use the correct blade for the job.
>
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back
to the
> pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Combination blades
> with 50 teeth are going to struggle in ripping.
>
> To me, it makes sense to use the correct blade for the job.
Sure, but I've done on often with a Freud blade. It should be able to handle
3/4" with little strain. OTOH, after posting a reply, I realized he is not
talking a 3 hp cabinet saw but a 3 Sears hp saw, probably less than 1 real
hp.
Ed
"Charlie Self" wrote ...
> Or the wrong blade. A 50 tooth blade is NOT a rip blade. The smallest
tooth
> I've seen on a 10" finish rip blade is in the 40 tooth pattern. Most
finish rip
> blades have 30 teeth and glue line rips have 30 to 24 teeth. Combination
blades
> with 50 teeth are going to struggle in ripping.
While I agree entirely with what Charlie says, I have ripped thicker stock
than that with my 60 tooth blade when I was too damn lazy to change it out.
My saw is a 3 hp Unisaw and it cut through like a hot knife through butter.
That being said, either something is wrong with your motor, or it is
possible that there is something wrong with the wiring in the circuit it's
on. Too many things on the same circuit will draw enough power that you are
starving the motor and ruining it. It would also result in poor
performance.
--
Cheers,
Howard
----------------------------------------------------------
Working wood in New Jersey - [email protected]
Visit me in the woodshop - www.inthewoodshop.org
Howard Ruttan writes:
>
>While I agree entirely with what Charlie says, I have ripped thicker stock
>than that with my 60 tooth blade when I was too damn lazy to change it out.
>My saw is a 3 hp Unisaw and it cut through like a hot knife through butter.
Yeah, but his is NOT a Unisaw. I've used my Unisaw to cut 2" oak with a combo
blade. Fortunately, just a couple pieces, but...it works.
>That being said, either something is wrong with your motor, or it is
>possible that there is something wrong with the wiring in the circuit it's
>on. Too many things on the same circuit will draw enough power that you are
>starving the motor and ruining it. It would also result in poor
>performance.
I think he's probably running ye olde basic 1.5 HP contractor's saw, which is
the reason he absolutely needs a correct blade, or, at worst, one that is less
incorrect.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
On 29 Nov 2003 09:34:45 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>I think he's probably running ye olde basic 1.5 HP contractor's saw, which is
>the reason he absolutely needs a correct blade, or, at worst, one that is less
>incorrect.
I easily rip 3/4"+ dry hardwoods all day long with a Freud 50T on my 1
1/5 HP Jet. I'll bet his saw barely makes 1 HP. He could also have
some alignment problems.
I only install a rip blade for green lumber or furniture parts over
5-6/4.
Barry
Charlies points are good...but I don't think that's the problem.
I do almost all my work with an 80-tooth combo blade...and I can
cut 1.5" oak with no problem on my 1.5hp Delta CS. You've got
a problem with the saw, either mechanical or alignment.
Charlie Self wrote:
> Or the wrong blade. A 50 tooth blade is NOT a rip blade. The smallest tooth
> I've seen on a 10" finish rip blade is in the 40 tooth pattern. Most finish rip
> blades have 30 teeth and glue line rips have 30 to 24 teeth. Combination blades
> with 50 teeth are going to struggle in ripping.
>
> To me, it makes sense to use the correct blade for the job.
--
************************************
Chris Merrill
[email protected]
(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************
Ron wrote:
>
>
> No extension cord was used.
> However, it is sharing the circuit with an old fridge.
How far is the plug from the load center and what's it's rating?
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54...
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
Sounds to me like a wrong tool for the job thing. After I bought my Delta
contractors saw, I thought I'd like to get some smooth rips and save myself
some sanding time. I put the 80 tooth blade from my miter saw on it and
proceeded to try to rip some 3/4 oak. What a nightmare - burning edges, the
saw bogging down, circuit breaker being tripped. I switched to a 40 tooth
combo blade and haven't had a problem since.
HTH,
Jo
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> No extension cord was used.
> However, it is sharing the circuit with an old fridge.
>
That can add to the problem. Depending on the age of the fridge, it can be
sucking more juice than the saw. FWIW, I had an extra old Fridge, about 10
cu ft. Replaced it with a new 18 cu ft frost free and my electric bill
dropped $10 a month.
Point of this:
Buy your wife a new fridge and put the electric savings towards a new saw.
Win - Win !
Ed
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ron wrote:
>
> > I believe this saw is similiar to their benchtop model, plus a leg kit.
>
> I have the leg kit too. Aluminum top, undersized miter slots, universal
> motor with direct shaft drive? No blade tilt wheel?
>
> Crappy saw, but not useless. Think hard about building a crosscut sled.
I
> built one with a miter attachment and a finger jointing attachment, and it
> made a tremendous difference in how much use I can get out of the saw.
The
> miter gauge on this thing was useless, even with an extended fence.
>
> > Correct, it was off by a few degrees.
>
> Toldja... :) It took me a *lot* of futzing to get the blade straight
with
> the fence, and at 90 degrees to the table. I vowed to never, ever tilt
the
> blade again.
>
> > Correct the splitter on this saw was offset by 1/4" or so, so I yanked
it
> > off.
>
> > It was more of a hinderence than a help.
> > It may be worth investigating how to fix it though.
>
> Fix it. You can probably bend it enough to get it in line. I run without
> the guard, but I use the splitter whenever possible, which is most of the
> time. When you cut a piece of case-hardened walnut that starts curling
> toward the blade on the far side of the cut, you'll see why. ka-POW!
Glad
> I wasn't standing in front of that. (Kickback.) That was the day I
> decided to futz with my splitter!
>
I fixed the alignment problem on the splitter (with a hammer and a Dremel)
and
re-attached it.
I believe this helped also.
I then swapped blades with my Freud 60 tooth thin-kerf blade and cut through
some 3/4" maple plywood pretty nicely.
The biggest problem was keeping the 4' x 4' sheet snug against the guard
while
cutting of a 12" wide piece,but, got the wife to help for that. This
project is for
her kitchen ;)
ThankX again all for the suggestions,
Ron
<snip>
I also use the 50 tooth Freud Combo. If the Tablesaw that
you are using is that $199.00 shaft driven one then you
will bog down big-time. Same thing happened to me.
I now use the same combo blade in a 1 1/2 HP belt-driven
contractor's saw and it works great as long as I keep the blade
clean.
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54...
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
> I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
> Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>
> ThankX
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
Silvan wrote i
>> Crikey... I know Sears lies about horsepower, but I don't imagine your
>>saw could be any more anemic than mine. I have a Skil 3400 benchtop. I'm
>> running a 40-tooth blade I think, Freud TK960. I've cut lots of stuff
>>much bigger than 3/4" on it, up to resawing 2x4s and even 4x4 poplar timbers.
Ron wrote:
>I believe this saw is similiar to their benchtop model, plus a leg kit.
And Sears has the cajones to call it three horse.
UA100, wondering if that special place in Hell is full of
Sears ad writers/product descriptors...
Unisaw A100 writes:
>
>And Sears has the cajones to call it three horse.
>
From what marketing people tell me, Sears doesn't have the cojones to NOT call
these saws three horse. It's been going on so long, it's expected. Too, as one
marketeer told me, "Everybody does it," which is almost true--check the HP
ratings on routers.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
My 1 1/2 hp Rockwell shaper has a lot more guts than my 2 hp routers. :-)
Does anyone know about fitting a new Delta stub spindle to my old Rockwell
shaper? I've been trying to chase it down. Google hasn't yielded any results
and Delta will not respond when I e-mail their site. If I could find a
service phone number, I would call them.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Unisaw A100 writes:
>
> >
> >And Sears has the cajones to call it three horse.
> >
>
> From what marketing people tell me, Sears doesn't have the cojones to NOT
call
> these saws three horse. It's been going on so long, it's expected. Too, as
one
> marketeer told me, "Everybody does it," which is almost true--check the HP
> ratings on routers.
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back
to the
> pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:10:48 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:
> Unisaw A100 writes:
>
>>
>>And Sears has the cajones to call it three horse.
>>
>
> From what marketing people tell me, Sears doesn't have the cojones to NOT call
> these saws three horse. It's been going on so long, it's expected. Too, as one
> marketeer told me, "Everybody does it," which is almost true--check the HP
> ratings on routers.
From what I see, induction motors are rated fairly, it's universal moters
that defy the laws of physics - things like shop-vacs, routers, circular
saws, ...
Maybe the screaming coming from a universal moter is the sound of that
unaccounted for power being sucked through the interdimensional vortex?
-Doug
In article <d68yb.7134$LV1.6957@okepread05>,
RKON <[email protected]> wrote:
>In't that False advertising?
One would wish.
However, the claim is "Peak" HP.
And the mfr can, undoubtedly, demonstrate "instanteous" levels just
before stall/failure, that substantiate the claim.
Unclear if this state is reached before a typical residential circuit breaker
blows, or not.
It's "staying within the _letter_ of the law, while totally ignoring the
*spirit* of the law."
>"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
>in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:15:12 GMT, Doug Winterburn
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >From what I see, induction motors are rated fairly, it's universal moters
>> >that defy the laws of physics - things like shop-vacs, routers, circular
>> >saws, ...
>>
>> I have one of those 6.5HP 120v Shop Vacs! <G>
>>
>> In today's world of marketing, the credo seems to be "Just say it!",
>> regardless of the facts.
>>
>> Barry
>
>
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> In't that False advertising?
>
They have a way of hooking meter to it that says it is 6+ hp at full stop.
While not an accepted method by engineers, it get around the advertising
aspects.
I do recall some years back (maybe in the late 70's?) the auto industry
adopted new standards for rating engines. At least if they all do it the
same way, you have a little basis for comparison.
Ed
That's true in the legal system too.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:15:12 GMT, Doug Winterburn
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> In today's world of marketing, the credo seems to be "Just say it!",
> regardless of the facts.
>
> Barry
In't that False advertising?
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:15:12 GMT, Doug Winterburn
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >From what I see, induction motors are rated fairly, it's universal moters
> >that defy the laws of physics - things like shop-vacs, routers, circular
> >saws, ...
>
> I have one of those 6.5HP 120v Shop Vacs! <G>
>
> In today's world of marketing, the credo seems to be "Just say it!",
> regardless of the facts.
>
> Barry
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:34:36 -0600, "V.E. Dorn" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In hp, they are probably figuring based on output right before your circut
>trips in a completely open situation. An expalme being that the blade being
>bogged down and stops moving and there is that instant before the breaker
>goes and the motor is peaked.
In the vac's case, this is still not possible with a 20 amp, 120 volt
circuit.
Barry
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 16:26:46 -0500, "RKON"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In't that False advertising?
You'd think so, but let's do the math.
6.5 HP is impossible to get from a 120v 15 or 20 amp circuit.
768w = 1 HP
My 6.5 HP vac says 11 amps. 120 x 11 = 1320 watts
1320 / 2 (rounded) = 1.72 HP (under 100% efficiency! <G>)
Barry
Close. They use a 60 amp cicuit. This is what they get just before the smoke
excapes.
"V.E. Dorn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In hp, they are probably figuring based on output right before your circut
> trips in a completely open situation. An expalme being that the blade
being
> bogged down and stops moving and there is that instant before the breaker
> goes and the motor is peaked.
>
>
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> Maybe the screaming coming from a universal moter is the sound of that
> unaccounted for power being sucked through the interdimensional vortex?
You owe me a monitor!
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:53:23 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:23:09 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>they're not talking about YOUR shop's circuitry- in the test lab they
>>use much bigger circuits....
>
>I know. <G>
>
>The point is that the rating is not attainable in actual, real world
>use.
>
>Drag racers get 5000 HP from an engine for 4-6 seconds, then they
>completely rebuild the engine. Using power tool logic, many typical
>V8's could be sold as 3,4, or 5000 HP engines. <G>
>
>Go to the rail yard or harbor and see what thousands of horsepower on
>a continuous and dependable basis looks like.
>
>Barry
yep. a REAL 6 HP motor is as big as a 30 gallon trash can and runs on
3 phase, prolly 440V.... the motors in those "6 HP" shopvacs are about
as big as your fist.
It's easy to get bogus horsepower ratings. You don't have to lie. Run the
tool off a circuit that delevers the rated voltage that can deliver far more
amperage than the common circuit. Stall the motor under power and measure
the amp draw. Multiply that by the voltage, devide by 746 and you have your
BS horsepower rating. By this rating method, I have some 15000 horsepower
wire in my garage.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > In't that False advertising?
> >
>
> They have a way of hooking meter to it that says it is 6+ hp at full stop.
> While not an accepted method by engineers, it get around the advertising
> aspects.
>
> I do recall some years back (maybe in the late 70's?) the auto industry
> adopted new standards for rating engines. At least if they all do it the
> same way, you have a little basis for comparison.
> Ed
>
>
they're not talking about YOUR shop's circuitry- in the test lab they
use much bigger circuits....
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:12:00 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 16:26:46 -0500, "RKON"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In't that False advertising?
>
>You'd think so, but let's do the math.
>
>6.5 HP is impossible to get from a 120v 15 or 20 amp circuit.
>
>768w = 1 HP
>
>My 6.5 HP vac says 11 amps. 120 x 11 = 1320 watts
>
>1320 / 2 (rounded) = 1.72 HP (under 100% efficiency! <G>)
>
>Barry
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:15:12 GMT, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:
>From what I see, induction motors are rated fairly, it's universal moters
>that defy the laws of physics - things like shop-vacs, routers, circular
>saws, ...
I have one of those 6.5HP 120v Shop Vacs! <G>
In today's world of marketing, the credo seems to be "Just say it!",
regardless of the facts.
Barry
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:23:09 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>they're not talking about YOUR shop's circuitry- in the test lab they
>use much bigger circuits....
I know. <G>
The point is that the rating is not attainable in actual, real world
use.
Drag racers get 5000 HP from an engine for 4-6 seconds, then they
completely rebuild the engine. Using power tool logic, many typical
V8's could be sold as 3,4, or 5000 HP engines. <G>
Go to the rail yard or harbor and see what thousands of horsepower on
a continuous and dependable basis looks like.
Barry
In hp, they are probably figuring based on output right before your circut
trips in a completely open situation. An expalme being that the blade being
bogged down and stops moving and there is that instant before the breaker
goes and the motor is peaked.
Don
RKON <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d68yb.7134$LV1.6957@okepread05...
> In't that False advertising?
>
>
> "B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]>
wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:15:12 GMT, Doug Winterburn
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >From what I see, induction motors are rated fairly, it's universal
moters
> > >that defy the laws of physics - things like shop-vacs, routers,
circular
> > >saws, ...
> >
> > I have one of those 6.5HP 120v Shop Vacs! <G>
> >
> > In today's world of marketing, the credo seems to be "Just say it!",
> > regardless of the facts.
> >
> > Barry
>
>
Ron wrote:
> I believe this saw is similiar to their benchtop model, plus a leg kit.
I have the leg kit too. Aluminum top, undersized miter slots, universal
motor with direct shaft drive? No blade tilt wheel?
Crappy saw, but not useless. Think hard about building a crosscut sled. I
built one with a miter attachment and a finger jointing attachment, and it
made a tremendous difference in how much use I can get out of the saw. The
miter gauge on this thing was useless, even with an extended fence.
> Correct, it was off by a few degrees.
Toldja... :) It took me a *lot* of futzing to get the blade straight with
the fence, and at 90 degrees to the table. I vowed to never, ever tilt the
blade again.
> Correct the splitter on this saw was offset by 1/4" or so, so I yanked it
> off.
> It was more of a hinderence than a help.
> It may be worth investigating how to fix it though.
Fix it. You can probably bend it enough to get it in line. I run without
the guard, but I use the splitter whenever possible, which is most of the
time. When you cut a piece of case-hardened walnut that starts curling
toward the blade on the far side of the cut, you'll see why. ka-POW! Glad
I wasn't standing in front of that. (Kickback.) That was the day I
decided to futz with my splitter!
> This is one of my first (indoor) projects not build out of white pine.
Took me a long time to try anything adventuresome myself. I don't have a
planer or jointer either, so until I got some hand planes and learned how
to use them well enough to do a passable job of getting the wood into
shape, I couldn't use S2S hardwood lumber anyway.
I still have a long way to go, but I'm getting excited about how far I've
raised the bar now. I did a chess board out of walnut and maple with this
saw. Thought it was a ruin, but after I planed it (and planed it, and
planed it) it came out a true thing of beauty. Some alignment problems
I'll have to address next time I do a glue-up, but they're not *too* far
off, and with eyes closed, I can only tell by the changing grain where one
square stops and the other begins. It came out *smooth*.
Another thing... Poplar is soft, but pine is a lot softer. No matter what,
you *will* have to take that into account when you cut. The tougher the
wood, the slower the feed rate needs to be. I can plow through 3/4" pine
on this thing, but I have to take my time with anything else. Oak is about
the worst I've encountered so far.
Good luck!
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
I have noticed a lot of great replies and only have one thing to add. Are
you using a long/cheap extension cord? The wrong cord can cause a lot of
power drop.
Bob McBreen
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54...
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
> I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
> Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>
> ThankX
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
"Scott Brownell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ron wrote:
> >
> > I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears
3HP
> > table saw
> > and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
> >
> > The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> > I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
> >
> > Am I asking too much from this saw?
> > Should I use a straight ripping blade?
> >
> > Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> > I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> > downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
> >
> > In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
> >
> > I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> > I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
> >
> > Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
> >
> > Appreciate any suggestions.
> >
> > ThankX
> > Ron
>
> Are you running the saw off an extension cord? If so, what guage & what
> distance?
No extension cord was used.
However, it is sharing the circuit with an old fridge.
>
> Scott
> --
> An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
> up later, the damage remains.
Sweet Sawdust wrote:
>My old shop teacher said that " the blade should be no higher above the wood
>then you want it to cut into your hand" I try to keep the blade no more
>then 1/8 inch above the wood and lower when I can. While I know that this
>is a safety issue not a effency issue I have never had a problem keeping the
>blade at a low angle when cutting.
The wisdom on this is,
1) No higher than you want the blade to cut through your
hand. The problem is the wood will want to climb on top of
the blade (lift at the feeding end) and once it's up there
it likes to go fast quick (like the Rock 'N Roller Coaster
at Disney Whirled).
2) Blade high enough to expose the saw blade gullets. This
puts the blade high enough to force the wood down onto the
table. In other words, the blade is acting as a hold down.
I use both as required, i.e., the closer the fence is to the
wood (under 2"ish) I like to have the blade lower onna
'count of I'm a pussy. When there's more real estate 'tween
me and the blade I raise it, sometimes as high as it will go
(3 1/8"ish).
UA100
Unisaw 100 writes:
>1) No higher than you want the blade to cut through your
>hand. The problem is the wood will want to climb on top of
>the blade (lift at the feeding end) and once it's up there
>it likes to go fast quick (like the Rock 'N Roller Coaster
>at Disney Whirled).
>
>2) Blade high enough to expose the saw blade gullets. This
>puts the blade high enough to force the wood down onto the
>table. In other words, the blade is acting as a hold down.
>
>I use both as required, i.e., the closer the fence is to the
>wood (under 2"ish) I like to have the blade lower onna
>'count of I'm a pussy. When there's more real estate 'tween
>me and the blade I raise it, sometimes as high as it will go
>(3 1/8"ish).
When the real estate twixt my fingers and the blade approaches 5", I reach for
the push stick and featherboards, if the latter aren't already in use. I've
seen a great many people run stuff through much closer than that, but it makes
me feel nervous just to watch, though I know in particular cases the person has
already done this several thousand times in a 60 year career as a woodworker or
trainee.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
Charlie Self wrote:
>When the real estate twixt my fingers and the blade approaches 5", I reach for
>the push stick and featherboards, if the latter aren't already in use. I've
>seen a great many people run stuff through much closer than that, but it makes
>me feel nervous just to watch, though I know in particular cases the person has
>already done this several thousand times in a 60 year career as a woodworker or
>trainee.
Back right after my Dad taught me how to measure from the
miter slots to the fence he taught me to hang my pinkie and
ring finger over the fence which I do to this day. I have a
Biesemeyer and on the short list is changing out the faces
so my digits have something a little more substantial to
hang onto.
UA100
I swapped blades with a 36 tooth one and it did cut a bit smoother.
Plus...
comments below.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ron wrote:
>
> > I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears
3HP
> > table saw
> > and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
> >
> > The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> > I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
> >
> > Am I asking too much from this saw?
>
> Crikey... I know Sears lies about horsepower, but I don't imagine your
saw
> could be any more anemic than mine. I have a Skil 3400 benchtop. I'm
> running a 40-tooth blade I think, Freud TK960. I've cut lots of stuff
much
> bigger than 3/4" on it, up to resawing 2x4s and even 4x4 poplar timbers.
I believe this saw is similiar to their benchtop model, plus a leg kit.
>
> Sounds like maybe
>
> * you're feeding too fast
> * your rip fence isn't parallel to the blade
> * your blade isn't perpendicular to the table, and it's tilted toward the
> fence
Correct, it was off by a few degrees.
> * you're running without the splitter, and the kerf is closing up on the
far
> side
Correct the splitter on this saw was offset by 1/4" or so, so I yanked it
off.
It was more of a hinderence than a help.
It may be worth investigating how to fix it though.
>
> Giving your saw a tuneup might really help. For some reason, I was
> convinced that my saw was just a useless piece of junk, and I never
> bothered to try to get it to work better. It still isn't a very good
> machine, but a couple days spent fiddling with it made a world of
> difference. It's at least useful now, and a lot better than nothing.
>
> > Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
> It would probably help. With a 50-tooth blade, I'd imagine you'd have to
> feed even more slowly than I do, and I have to go slow and easy on rips
> through thick materials. I do get some burning too, just not nearly as
bad
> as I used to.
>
> > Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> > I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> > downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> That's pretty much it. Lower = safer, less tooth exposure. Higher = less
> strain on the anemic motor, and I think (think, mind you, I might be
wrong)
> less risk of a kickback.
>
> > I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> > I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
> Feh. If my piece of crap is worthy of a Freud blade, anything is.
Putting
> a "better" quality blade on it really helped. I don't think it would have
> been wise to put a Forrest WWII on the thing though.
>
> > Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
> I know that feeling. Of late, I *am* using real wood for stuff, and it
> hurts a lot more when I screw up. It's a lot more rewarding though when I
> get something almost sort of close to right. :)
This is one of my first (indoor) projects not build out of white pine.
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
Sat, Nov 29, 2003, 3:44am (EST+5) [email protected] (Ron) says:
I swapped blades with a 36 tooth one and it did cut a bit smoother.
<snip>
I've read the thread. Seems to me you need to tune you saw. I've
got an $80 HF saw, supposedly rated at 2 hp. I've got a carbide tipped
blade on it, and I can go thru a chunk of that 1 1/2" plywood no prob.
Sure your blades are sharp?
JOAT
People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting, but
serious professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a warm
place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally hard to
get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time.
- General Friit
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 1 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
This seems silly, but your experience is so far out of line, that it almost
sounds like you put the blade in backwards. I don't mean to insult you, but
just about any table saw should be able to rip 3/4" poplar with ease.
Something is grotesquely wrong. When I was in college, I worked in an
unsupervised student union woodshop, where they let you change the blades
yourself without any safetly checkout. I put a blade in backwards. It cut
but was fitful and difficult and eventually threw the wood at me.
Bob
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54...
> I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
> table saw
> and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
> The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
> I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
> Am I asking too much from this saw?
> Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
> I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
> I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
> Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>
> ThankX
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:05:49 -0700, Dan Dunphy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Check your fence alighment. If it cuts on the upstroke as you pull the
>peice out, it is not alighned correctly. It should be about 1/16 inch
>further from the mitre groove on the outfeed end than the infeed end.
>I was watching the Forrest blade guy, at the woodworking show, last
>week. He said .003 over the length of the blade. He demoed both ways,
>one burned the wood, tapered away cut clean. He was ripping a 2 1/2
>inch block of maple with his combination blade. It would shave off a
>sliver you could see light through.
>Dan
>
I run mine as parallel as I can get them. no burning.
Bridger
Check your fence alighment. If it cuts on the upstroke as you pull the
peice out, it is not alighned correctly. It should be about 1/16 inch
further from the mitre groove on the outfeed end than the infeed end.
I was watching the Forrest blade guy, at the woodworking show, last
week. He said .003 over the length of the blade. He demoed both ways,
one burned the wood, tapered away cut clean. He was ripping a 2 1/2
inch block of maple with his combination blade. It would shave off a
sliver you could see light through.
Dan
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:08:37 GMT, "Ron" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I just put a new 10" 50 tooth Freud thin-kerf combo blade in my sears 3HP
>table saw
>and proceeded to cut some 3/4" poplar into 2" wide strips.
>
>The saw got bogged down and seemed to really struggle.
>I even had a few burn marks along the cut edges.
>
>Am I asking too much from this saw?
>Should I use a straight ripping blade?
>
>Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
>I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
>downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
>In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
>I realize the saw is probably not worthy of a Freud blade, but,
>I'm trying to make the needed cuts with what I have.
>
>Glad I didn't go with Red Oak for this project.
>
>Appreciate any suggestions.
>
>ThankX
>Ron
>
>
>
>
Colorado Springs, CO
My advice may be worth what you paid for it.
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pkSxb.244475$mZ5.1834776@attbi_s54...
>
> Also, how high above the wood should I raise the blade?
> I assume the lower, the safer, but, being higher seems like it would cut
> downwards more instead of at a lower angle.
>
> In my case I had the blade up about 2 1/2".
>
My old shop teacher said that " the blade should be no higher above the wood
then you want it to cut into your hand" I try to keep the blade no more
then 1/8 inch above the wood and lower when I can. While I know that this
is a safety issue not a effency issue I have never had a problem keeping the
blade at a low angle when cutting.
In article <kCUxb.249779$275.922382@attbi_s53>, "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> * you're running without the splitter, and the kerf is closing up on the
>> far side
>Correct the splitter on this saw was offset by 1/4" or so, so I yanked it
>off.
>It was more of a hinderence than a help.
>It may be worth investigating how to fix it though.
>
It's *imperative* that you fix it, or replace it. A properly adjusted splitter
is essential in the prevention of kickbacks. Do a Google search on splitter
and kickback, and you'll see what I mean.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> This is one of my first (indoor) projects not build out of white pine.
That is when the (in)adequacy of your tools will be pointed out.
Ed