Hi,
I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what you
think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
Thanks
Loves Wood said:
>Hi,
>
>I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
>have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
>Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
>you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what you
>think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
I have an older Delta DC - built in Taiwan. It has been reliable,
works fine, and is fairly quiet. I build a pre-collector that sits on
the DC base and rolls around with it. It usually gets rolled outside
when I'm making dust - so that I don't have to breath the fine stuff
that makes it's way through the bag. I have a blast gate mounted in
the door for easy hookup. I'm not worried about make-up air. The
clean-up I have to do is markedly less and the sawdust makes a good
mulch for acid loving plants. Just don't mix it IN the soil 'cause
the breakdown process can deplete the soil of nitrogen needed by the
plants. Blueberries love it. Also makes a fine fire starter for the
fireplace.
The cheap unit (AP300?) they sell now is pretty crappy, the AP400 is
as low as I would go.
I know someone with a Shop Fox 1 1/2 HP model - it seems like a good
deal.
FWIW
Greg G.
I build the kits that are based on Bill Pentz's cyclone design. There
are several reasons why I consider this to be the best unit available
for overall performance. (details at
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/ClarkesKits.cfm
You would be well advised to avoid non-cyclone units that use bag
"filters" because the fine dust that gets through is very dangerous.
As for cyclones, there are cyclones and there are units called "cyclones"
and since there is no standard industry definition for what constitutes
a real cyclone, you're on your own there.
A few pointers when looking at cyclones. An efficient, effective
cyclone doesn't need a large bag-over-a-barrel dust bin and bag after
the blower. Yesterday, I got an email from one builder of the cyclone
kit I produce. When he got his unit going, he put some fine MDF
sawdust from his table saw into the inlet while observing the unfiltered
outlet from the blower. The cyclone gobbled up the dust, but there was
NO visible dust coming out of the blower.
A properly designed and configured cyclone is not a trivial matter,
and when the design is not based on very sound physics and aerodynamics,
it generally will not deliver top-notch performance. And don't forget,
that many of the published "specifications" on dust collectors and
cyclones do not represent anything remotely resembling actual operation
in a real shop environment.
A well designed cyclone with proper filters and well-designed collection
ducts does not leave dust all over your shop. If there's dust all over
the shop, the collector isn't really collecting, is it?
Clarke
Mark Jerde wrote:
>
> Loves Wood wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my
> > garage/workshop. I have done some comparative shopping, and I have
> > narrowed it down to either Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards
> > Jet's, but I just don't know. If you have either of these brands,
> > please reply back and let me know what you think about it. I just
> > don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
> >
> > Thanks
>
> I have a Jet low-end DC, a Sears shop vac, a filter on a box fan, and a
> shop-built sanding table (based on a squirrel cage furnace fan). However,
> none of these captures the ultra-fine dust that is a long-term health
> hazard. I'm pinching pennies to put together a system to get rid of this
> very fine dust. Here is a starting point.
> http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
>
> That said, my Jet DC gets the dust just fine from my 13.5" planer and 6"
> jointer. The shop vac gets most of the dust from my router table and
> contractor saw. (The contractor saw has most of the air gaps sealed.)
>
> Because my mother developed lung problems in her 60's, I'm looking to
> capture the itsy-bitsy dust particles.
>
> -- Mark
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:39:42 -0600, "Loves Wood"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
>have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
>Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
>you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what you
>think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
>Thanks
>
The best ones are either Penn State or Grizzly. I've got the Penn
State and I'm happy with it, but I'd have no problems with Grizzly
either. Make sure you get a metal propeller. There's nothing special
about Jet or Delta. I'd get the most power for the buck with 5 or
less micron bags.
The comparison between a metal fan and a fiberglass fan is that if you
happen to suck up a nail, staple or other metal object, when it hits the
fan it can throw sparks into your collected dust and smolder into a
fire, long after you shut down the shop.
--
Re: buying a dust collector
Group: rec.woodworking Date: Wed, Dec 24, 2003, 3:15am (MST+7) From:
[email protected] (Phisherman)
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:39:42 -0600, "Loves Wood"
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to
either Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't
know. If you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me
know what you think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
Thanks
The best ones are either Penn State or Grizzly. I've got the Penn State
and I'm happy with it, but I'd have no problems with Grizzly either.
Make sure you get a metal propeller. There's nothing special about Jet
or Delta. I'd get the most power for the buck with 5 or less micron
bags.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
There's also Woodsucker - a very competitive cyclone. For those who won't
go the price or space of a cyclone, the Jet Canister system is very nice.
Its head and shoulders above a bag style for effectiveness and ease of use.
Bob
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:39:42 -0600, "Loves Wood"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
> >have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to
either
> >Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
> >you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what
you
> >think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
> >
> >Thanks
> >
>
>
> The best ones are either Penn State or Grizzly. I've got the Penn
> State and I'm happy with it, but I'd have no problems with Grizzly
> either. Make sure you get a metal propeller. There's nothing special
> about Jet or Delta. I'd get the most power for the buck with 5 or
> less micron bags.
Loves Wood wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my
> garage/workshop. I have done some comparative shopping, and I have
> narrowed it down to either Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards
> Jet's, but I just don't know. If you have either of these brands,
> please reply back and let me know what you think about it. I just
> don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
> Thanks
I have a Jet low-end DC, a Sears shop vac, a filter on a box fan, and a
shop-built sanding table (based on a squirrel cage furnace fan). However,
none of these captures the ultra-fine dust that is a long-term health
hazard. I'm pinching pennies to put together a system to get rid of this
very fine dust. Here is a starting point.
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
That said, my Jet DC gets the dust just fine from my 13.5" planer and 6"
jointer. The shop vac gets most of the dust from my router table and
contractor saw. (The contractor saw has most of the air gaps sealed.)
Because my mother developed lung problems in her 60's, I'm looking to
capture the itsy-bitsy dust particles.
-- Mark
Greg G. wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Loves Wood said:
>
> > I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
> Funny you should mention that. I submitted several, and the negative
> review never showed up, the positive one did. Imagine that!
There are plenty of bad tool reviews on Amazon. Some of them even criticize Amazon.
Dick Durbin
"Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash and Kalamazoo...."
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
> doesn't do as much as I expected.
> It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
> saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would have
> bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
>
> If anyone has advice on how to make it more effective, I am all ears (eyes,
> whatever...).
Check out http://wood.bigelowsite.com/index.htm
There is a diagram for a pice that fits over the back of a Jet
contractor's saw. I am going to try it out as soon as the Christmas
holidays are through and I can get back to my shop.
Dick Durbin
Tallahassee
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:03:24 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:50:30 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
>> >doesn't do as much as I expected.
>> >It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
>> >saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would
>have
>> >bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
>> >
>> >If anyone has advice on how to make it more effective, I am all ears
>(eyes,
>> >whatever...).
>> >
>>
>> What's the HP? I've got a 1.5 HP and now wish I had a 2HP, although
>> with no more noise. Mine picks up well, except when a chunk of wood
>> gets clogged in a bend (and don't realize it). Clear tubing is nice,
>> though much more $. I have a cyclone garbage can (that I designed)
>> that catches 90% of the dust before it reaches the DC.
>
>It is 1.5HP. There is plenty of power, but the miter saw and table saw are
>both so wide open then I don't get any real grip on the dust. The router is
>all enclosed, so it is more than adequate. I don't think a 2hp would be
>much better; the trick is to figure out how to enclose them better.
>Or so it seems to me; maybe I am missing something.
>
I've got a cabinet saw and it collects the dust well. I made foam
inserts on the tilt that help pull more dust at the blade location.
My miter saw doesn't have DC collection, but I've seen pyramid-shaped
scoops made from thin hardboard that will catch some. I do less
crosscutting than ripping, so I don't see the mitersaw station that
much of a problem. If I had a lot of crosscutting work, I'd clamp a
flex hose near the backend of the blade, where most dust is made.
"Loves Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
> have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
> Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
> you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what you
> think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
> Thanks
I should note also that I converted it to 220v.
"Loves Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
> have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
> Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
> you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what you
> think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
> Thanks
I have the JET 708639/DC-1100A 1-1/2HP Dust Collector. Bought it on
Amazon. (why wouldn't you trust the reviews any more or less than
here?). I bought 1 micron bags, I believe from Penn State Industries.
I removed the 4" tee so I have a 6" input. Works great, as I'm just
a 1 man shop. Much quieter than my shop vac, and really picks up
those planer chips. I built a separator, but I need to look at some
other plans, as mine separates only the biggest pieces.
The only quibble, and this isn't a model specific quibble, is
disposing of the dust. It fills up 3 30-gallon bags easily!
Greg G. wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Loves Wood said:
>
> > I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
> Funny you should mention that. I submitted several, and the negative
> review never showed up, the positive one did. Imagine that!
>
>
> Greg G.
I've never had a review blocked on Amazon, positive or negative.
"Loves Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
: Hi,
:
: I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
: have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
: Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
: you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what you
: think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
:
: Thanks
:
:
I have the Jet DC-1100CK. It works great, gets all the chips and dust I throw at it from my planer
and table saw. For the fine dust in the air I have the Jet AFS-1000B air filter. It too works very
well.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
> > doesn't do as much as I expected.
> > It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
> > saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would
> have
> > bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
>
>
> Don't stop now. Enclose the base of the contractor saw and add a dust
port.
> My Delta has a piece that goes in the bottom and has the dust port. I
made
> a baffle for the open back. It collects 98% of the dust. For a miter saw
> you'd have to make or buy a funnel in back of the saw. I've not done that
> yet.
>
Can you email me pictures of your enclosure? I have been giving it some
thought but can't come up with anything that will be air tight, yet allow
the saw to be adjusted. I was thinking about duct taping a heavy plastic
tarp around the motor to allow it to move without leaking; yet allowing the
cooling fan to work.
Thanks.
I have a jet DC1200 with cartridge filter. I elected to go this route
rather than the much more expensive cyclone. Its put together very well. I
opted for 2 hp as a safety factor, knowing it would probably be overkill.
Its always better to have a little too much instead of coming up short in
this area, as far as I am concerned. Of course, I already had 220volt which
made decision much easier. I didn't see any comparison between Jet and
Delta, because of the cannister filter option.
As an experiment, I initially hooked it up with 6" metal flex hose to a
homemade 6" duct on my table saw, then compared it to a 4" connection. Holy
Cow what a difference that made. With the 6" hose, it allowed the blower to
move into its optimum operating region and it was a virtual hurricane. It
also brought out dust leaks all over the place.
By the way, my expectations were set correctly by reading a lot before
making this purchase. Unless your tools are set up correctly for dust
collection, any brand/size collector is not going to do much. I bought the
collector, fully expecting to have to enhance/modify the dust collection on
any tool I connected. I'm in the process of attacking the blade guard
collection on my Jet table saw.
Bob
"Loves Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop. I
> have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to either
> Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know. If
> you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what
you
> think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
>
> Thanks
>
>
I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
doesn't do as much as I expected.
It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would have
bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
If anyone has advice on how to make it more effective, I am all ears (eyes,
whatever...).
Your DC is designed to collect dust from a 2" or 4" port on your tools.
The 2" port is for a shop vac because the tool either has a lot of the
dust trapped (inside the wheel cage of a BS or under the table of a
router table) and what little dust that gets away can be collected
easily by the SV.
The larger machines that have the 4" collection ports are placed there
as an after market product to match up with the existing standard of the
4" dust collection hose. Think! A 4" collection hose has a 12.56
Square inch area across any part of the hose or a 12.56 cubic inch per
lineal inch of the hose. Now to fit this 4" hose into a square port,
the smallest size would be 16 square inches or 16 cubic inches of box
per lineal inch of dust port. This means you have lost 1/4 of your
suction just by placing a 4" hose on the port.
A redesign of the port would effectively remove more dust by using the
full power of the DC and not allow the dust ports to exceeded that of
the hose which brings in the suction per lineal inch.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
><SNIP>
> The larger machines that have the 4" collection ports are placed there
> as an after market product to match up with the existing standard of the
> 4" dust collection hose. Think!
<SNIP>
What are you trying to accomplish by telling the poster to "Think!"? At
best it seems condescending, bordering on rude. I believe that you could
have effectively made you point, and spread some good will at the same time
without the attitude.
Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
Could you describe what a well made port on the table saw looks like?
You're the first person I've read that espoused using a 2 1/2" hose to
collect dust from a table saw.
Bob
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>... even the TS after a well
> made dust collection port has been made.
You want to know how my TS dust hood is built? Well, I have no
pictures, but I will try and describe it for you. And yes, it does use
a 2-1/2" shop vac line from my DC
First off, I used 1/2" melamine faced particle board. I cut a shape
much like a hip & ridge roof, only this was turned upside down to form a
funnel with two flat sides. Then I cut the ridge (the long sides that
came together) so that there was a small opening at a slant. (much like
cutting an inch from one side and two inches from the other side) Then
this left an opening that was perfect to fit a shop vac floor brush
found at Lowes that had the brushes removed and duct taped tightly to
the opening. The other end was hung from the sides of the saw stand
using the same principal as the dust bag most WW stores sell for $40.,
only there was 4" of canvas used to the particle board from the saw
stand.
Inside the unit there was a piece of 1/4" x 1/4" hardware cloth stapled
down at a level just high enough to be the floor area when the door is
open. This allows the door to be opened and small pieces removed so
they don't get swept into the DC. I also use zero clearance blade
plates, but not everytime do these prevent the small pieces from getting
away.
A shop vac hose connected from the manifold to a blast gate on the side
of the saw is placed when setting up the saw. There is a hose that is
permanently connected from the blast gate to the floor brush and taped
well with duct tape.
Like I said, I do not have any photos, so don't ask to see any pics. I
just figured any WW'er would know how to build this.
--
Group: rec.woodworking Date: Fri, Dec 26, 2003, 1:48pm (MST+7) From:
[email protected] (Bob=A0Davis)
Could you describe what a well made port on the table saw looks like?
You're the first person I've read that espoused using a 2 1/2" hose to
collect dust from a table saw.
Bob
--
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
.. even the TS after a well
made dust collection port has been made.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
My reason to say think is --- When purchasing a DC, it is designed as
the standard 4" type system because the market shows tools with 4"
ports. And then a dummy doesn't have to read "Connecting Woodworking
Tools To A Dust Collector For Dummys"
My system starts out as a 4" system to the separator can. It leaves the
separator can in a 3" line to a short manifold. There it branches to
2-1/2" lines where shop vac hoses connect the manifold to the tools with
a 2-1/2" blast gate at the tools. Each of the after thought dust ports
are redesigned to work on a 2-1/2" line. I have excellent pickup from
everything from the router to the planer and even the TS after a well
made dust collection port has been made.
So, think. If a shop vac will pick up the dust after it is made just as
fast as it is made, then a shop vac or a DC with a shop vac hose will do
the same.
When you go from a small lineal area to a larger one such as that is
what happens in your separator can or cyclone, then the suction is
decreased and the dust won't flow. The only thing size of the DC will
do is overcome this change and make no need to read the above book for
dummys.
However, when the dust port is redesigned so that the lineal area of the
hose (ie. 3.1416 x 4 = 12.5664 for 4" hose; 3.1416 x 3 = 9.4248 for 3"
hose; 3.1416 x 2-1/2 = 7.354 for 2-1/2" hose) is nearly the same as the
port. This makes the port move suction like the hose and the chips and
dust move in the hose and tool as they were one regardless.
However, it is easier to just buy a bigger DC to compensate for the
change made from the hose to the port because most WW'ers don't have the
ability to redesign the dust port, so they just hook up a powerful DC to
after thought dust ports.
BTW, where were these dust ports on tools 30 or more years old, & why
hasn't there been significant change in the DC collection on a TS where
DC collection is needed most?
--
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<SNIP>
The larger machines that have the 4" collection ports are placed there
as an after market product to match up with the existing standard of the
4" dust collection hose. Think!
<SNIP>
--
What are you trying to accomplish by telling the poster to "Think!"? At
best it seems condescending, bordering on rude. I believe that you could
have effectively made you point, and spread some good will at the same
time without the attitude.
Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
There are dozens of books and articles on dust collection that consistently
state that the hazardous nature of dust in woodworking was not recognized
several decades ago. So what's your point?
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> BTW, where were these dust ports on tools 30 or more years old, & why
> hasn't there been significant change in the DC collection on a TS where
> DC collection is needed most?
My point. Today's dust is recognized and is stated to be a problem.
Along comes a 4" port and this works well for small DC units, but when
more tools are added, more power is needed to compensate for the leaks
and hose runs. With the proper size ports, leak sealing and hoses, the
extra power may not be needed.
--
Group: rec.woodworking Date: Fri, Dec 26, 2003, 1:53pm (MST+7) From:
[email protected] (Bob=A0Davis)
There are dozens of books and articles on dust collection that
consistently state that the hazardous nature of dust in woodworking was
not recognized several decades ago. So what's your point?
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
Woody's formula happens to work only for 4" hose because the radius squared
happens to be the same as the diameter at 4". Otherwise you are not
calculating area of the hose at all, rather it's circumference (see below).
Beyond that, there is a trade off between air speed measured in Feet per
minute (increased by smaller hose, to a point) and volume measured on Cubic
Feet per minute (increased by large hose and less restrictions). Limit
either one too far and the whole setup won't work as well.
3.1416 x diameter is circumference. Area is 3.1416 x radius (squared).
4" = Circ 12.5664 area 12.5664
3" = Circ 9.4248 area 7.0686
2.5" = Circ 7.854 area 4.90625
Excellent info found at
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Ducting.cfm#Ducting%20Introduction
That said, this was not intended to be a shot at Woody, or anyone else.
Bob by Chicago
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My reason to say think is --- When purchasing a DC, it is designed as
> the standard 4" type system because the market shows tools with 4"
> ports. And then a dummy doesn't have to read "Connecting Woodworking
> Tools To A Dust Collector For Dummys"
>
> My system starts out as a 4" system to the separator can. It leaves the
> separator can in a 3" line to a short manifold. There it branches to
> 2-1/2" lines where shop vac hoses connect the manifold to the tools with
> a 2-1/2" blast gate at the tools. Each of the after thought dust ports
> are redesigned to work on a 2-1/2" line. I have excellent pickup from
> everything from the router to the planer and even the TS after a well
> made dust collection port has been made.
>
> So, think. If a shop vac will pick up the dust after it is made just as
> fast as it is made, then a shop vac or a DC with a shop vac hose will do
> the same.
>
> When you go from a small lineal area to a larger one such as that is
> what happens in your separator can or cyclone, then the suction is
> decreased and the dust won't flow. The only thing size of the DC will
> do is overcome this change and make no need to read the above book for
> dummys.
>
> However, when the dust port is redesigned so that the lineal area of the
> hose (ie. 3.1416 x 4 = 12.5664 for 4" hose; 3.1416 x 3 = 9.4248 for 3"
> hose; 3.1416 x 2-1/2 = 7.354 for 2-1/2" hose) is nearly the same as the
> port. This makes the port move suction like the hose and the chips and
> dust move in the hose and tool as they were one regardless.
>
> However, it is easier to just buy a bigger DC to compensate for the
> change made from the hose to the port because most WW'ers don't have the
> ability to redesign the dust port, so they just hook up a powerful DC to
> after thought dust ports.
>
> BTW, where were these dust ports on tools 30 or more years old, & why
> hasn't there been significant change in the DC collection on a TS where
> DC collection is needed most?
>
> --
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> <SNIP>
> The larger machines that have the 4" collection ports are placed there
> as an after market product to match up with the existing standard of the
> 4" dust collection hose. Think!
> <SNIP>
>
> --
>
> What are you trying to accomplish by telling the poster to "Think!"? At
> best it seems condescending, bordering on rude. I believe that you could
> have effectively made you point, and spread some good will at the same
> time without the attitude.
>
> Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
>
> --
> Woody
>
>
> Check out my Web Page at:
>
> http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
>
> Where you will find:
>
> ******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
>
> * * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
> * * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
> * * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
> * * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
> * * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
> * * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
> * * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
> * * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
>
Joe,
How about having another run at that sentence wording? I read it five times
and still don't understand what yous said. I have no idea what you mean by
"move suction".
Bob
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This makes the port move suction like the hose and the chips and
> dust move in the hose and tool as they were one regardless.
"move suction" OK. If you have a shop vac and you are sweeping up dust
just by using the end of the hose and no tools on the end, then you can
"move the suction" to the end of the wands or another hose by adding it
to the existing hose you are using.
If, however, you attach your hose to a large box and expect the
"suction" to pick up dust at the opposing end of a larger opening,
then the suction from the small hose (shop vac) will decrease and will
not be enough to pick up dust.
Read the book "Connecting Woodworking Tools To A Dust Collector For
Dummys" and you'll understand how to move the suction so it picks up the
dust at the point where it is made.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My reason to say think is --- When purchasing a DC, it is designed as
> the standard 4" type system because the market shows tools with 4"
> ports. And then a dummy doesn't have to read "Connecting Woodworking
> Tools To A Dust Collector For Dummys"
> <SNIP>
I believe that you are missing my point, and I am sorry if I wasn't clear.
You obiviously have a lot of knowledge to share but I think that it would be
better received if you were not so condescending. Telling people to
"Think!", and calling them "dummy" is rude.
Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
>>
> --
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> <SNIP>
> The larger machines that have the 4" collection ports are placed there
> as an after market product to match up with the existing standard of the
> 4" dust collection hose. Think!
> <SNIP>
>
> --
>
> What are you trying to accomplish by telling the poster to "Think!"? At
> best it seems condescending, bordering on rude. I believe that you could
> have effectively made you point, and spread some good will at the same
> time without the attitude.
>
> Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
>
> --
> Woody
>
>
> Check out my Web Page at:
>
> http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
>
> Where you will find:
>
> ******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
>
> * * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
> * * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
> * * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
> * * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
> * * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
> * * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
> * * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
> * * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
>
Well, I sat down and thought why can't I get the suction from my DC to
my planer hood. Awwww, lets see. The hose is 4" diameter, the planer
hood supplied by Delta is 4" x 8". Now the lineal run of the hose is
12.56 cubic inches per inch in length og hose. The lineal run of the
hood is 32 cubic inches per lineal inch of the hood. This means that it
loses almost three times the suction going from one size to the other.
This can be complicated when there is a shop vac used, going from 7.853
to 32 cubic inches.
Now, if you redesigned the hood to be 2.5 x 3 cubic inches per lineal
inch of the hood. You'd move the suction all along the dust hood from
the shop vac hose. Would the dust move. I'd think so.
If you don't think it would move then maybe you can explain why it moves
in my system when the dust ports were redesigned.
--
Re: buying a dust collector
Group: rec.woodworking Date: Fri, Dec 26, 2003, 10:10am (MST-1) From:
[email protected] (RWM)
I believe that you are missing my point, and I am sorry if I wasn't
clear. You obiviously have a lot of knowledge to share but I think that
it would be better received if you were not so condescending. Telling
people to "Think!", and calling them "dummy" is rude.
Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:50:30 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
> >doesn't do as much as I expected.
> >It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
> >saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would
have
> >bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
> >
> >If anyone has advice on how to make it more effective, I am all ears
(eyes,
> >whatever...).
> >
>
> What's the HP? I've got a 1.5 HP and now wish I had a 2HP, although
> with no more noise. Mine picks up well, except when a chunk of wood
> gets clogged in a bend (and don't realize it). Clear tubing is nice,
> though much more $. I have a cyclone garbage can (that I designed)
> that catches 90% of the dust before it reaches the DC.
It is 1.5HP. There is plenty of power, but the miter saw and table saw are
both so wide open then I don't get any real grip on the dust. The router is
all enclosed, so it is more than adequate. I don't think a 2hp would be
much better; the trick is to figure out how to enclose them better.
Or so it seems to me; maybe I am missing something.
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:50:30 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
>doesn't do as much as I expected.
>It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
>saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would have
>bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
>
>If anyone has advice on how to make it more effective, I am all ears (eyes,
>whatever...).
>
What's the HP? I've got a 1.5 HP and now wish I had a 2HP, although
with no more noise. Mine picks up well, except when a chunk of wood
gets clogged in a bend (and don't realize it). Clear tubing is nice,
though much more $. I have a cyclone garbage can (that I designed)
that catches 90% of the dust before it reaches the DC.
I second the opinion on the Jet 1200 cartridge. It sucks great. It is
quiet enough. I don't see any dust escaping. No cloth bags to beat causing
dust to fly everywhere. And it's easy to empty. With a Lee Valley garbage
can cyclone, it's even easier to get the dust out to the curb.
--
Chris Corbett
[email protected]
San Antonio, TX
Remove the nospam from the email address.
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have a jet DC1200 with cartridge filter. I elected to go this route
> rather than the much more expensive cyclone. Its put together very well.
I
> opted for 2 hp as a safety factor, knowing it would probably be overkill.
> Its always better to have a little too much instead of coming up short in
> this area, as far as I am concerned. Of course, I already had 220volt
which
> made decision much easier. I didn't see any comparison between Jet and
> Delta, because of the cannister filter option.
>
> As an experiment, I initially hooked it up with 6" metal flex hose to a
> homemade 6" duct on my table saw, then compared it to a 4" connection.
Holy
> Cow what a difference that made. With the 6" hose, it allowed the blower
to
> move into its optimum operating region and it was a virtual hurricane. It
> also brought out dust leaks all over the place.
>
> By the way, my expectations were set correctly by reading a lot before
> making this purchase. Unless your tools are set up correctly for dust
> collection, any brand/size collector is not going to do much. I bought
the
> collector, fully expecting to have to enhance/modify the dust collection
on
> any tool I connected. I'm in the process of attacking the blade guard
> collection on my Jet table saw.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Loves Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm in the market for a dust collection system for my garage/workshop.
I
> > have done some comparative shopping, and I have narrowed it down to
either
> > Delta or Jet. I'm leaning more towards Jet's, but I just don't know.
If
> > you have either of these brands, please reply back and let me know what
> you
> > think about it. I just don't trust the reviews on Amazon!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
>
>
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've had a Penn State dust collector for about a month now. It really
> doesn't do as much as I expected.
> It is great on my router table, but does very little for the contractors
> saw, miter saw, or sanding. Had I realized this, I don't think I would
have
> bought one; as a shop vac wasn't too bad on the router table either.
Don't stop now. Enclose the base of the contractor saw and add a dust port.
My Delta has a piece that goes in the bottom and has the dust port. I made
a baffle for the open back. It collects 98% of the dust. For a miter saw
you'd have to make or buy a funnel in back of the saw. I've not done that
yet.
I little time spent on this will make performance much better.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Can you email me pictures of your enclosure? I have been giving it some
> thought but can't come up with anything that will be air tight, yet allow
> the saw to be adjusted. I was thinking about duct taping a heavy plastic
> tarp around the motor to allow it to move without leaking; yet allowing
the
> cooling fan to work.
>
> Thanks.
Sure, give me a few days to get out there. It is simply a piece of 1/4"
plywood across the back with a couple of cutouts for the belt and motor
bracket. It does not come up to the top and it seems as though does not
have to. The way I made it, the motor cannot tilt. Takes but 30 seconds to
remove it though. Maybe someday I'll make it for the motor to tilt, but I
rarely use it that way.
Under the saw is the Delta accessory. It is just a piece of molded plastic,
rectangular, that angles down to the center dust port. You can easily make
one if you have a different brand. I'd use 1/4" plywood and buy a 4" port
or adapt one that is commercially available.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome