With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this along.
Dave
Unimaginable Acceleration
a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the
dragster's supercharger.
c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive,
the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.
Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
d.. At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air-fuel mixture for nitromethane, the
flame front temperature measures about 7000 degrees Fahrenheit.
e.. Nitromethane burn yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the
stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, separated from atmospheric water
vapor by the searing heat of the exhaust gases.
f.. The dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This output is
the equivalent of an arc welder in each cylinder.
g.. Spark plug electrodes can he totally consumed during a single pass.
After half-distance, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow
of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees Fahrenheit. The engine is shut down by
cutting the fuel flow.
h.. If a spark plug fails early in the run, unburned nitro can build up in
the affected cylinder and explode with sufficient force to blow the cylinder
head off in pieces or split the cylinder block in half.
i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's. In order to reach 200 mph
before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's. A Top Fuel
dragster reaches more than 300 mph before you have completed reading this
sentence.
j.. With a redline that can be as high as 9500 rpm, Top Fuel engines turn
approximately 510 revolutions from light to light. Including the burnout,
the engine needs to survive only 900 revolutions under load.
k.. Assuming that oil of the equipment is paid off, the crew works gratis,
and nothing breaks, each run costs an estimated $1000 per second.
l.. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for
the quarter-mile. (October 5, 2003, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record
is 333.25 mph as measured over the last 66 feet of the quarter mile November
9, 2003, Doug Kalitta).
a.. Putting all of this into perspective: you are driving the average
$140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the
road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured
quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run
the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you at
that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and within
three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line, a
quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the top
fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Somewhere in a box is a fist sized chunk of asphalt with a stick rubber blob
on it i picked up and saved.
That last night, when after the top fuel final, the next vehicles to run the
track were bulldozers.
I miss Lyon's raceway!
Andy
"Bernie Hunt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree, it's truely amazing in person! I went to high school in West
Covina
> and it was a rite of spring time to hear the cars running for the Winter
> Nationals. By junior year we started making it a tradition do ditch school
> on qualifying day and go over and watch. Somehow we got pit passes on time
> and got within 30 feet of the burn out area. The sound these things
produce
> is increadable! With full hearing protection on, you still hear it through
> the vibration of your skelatal system. Your head vibrates at the sound
> frequency, it's wild!
>
> Bernie
> Trying to get back from memory lane and return to adulthood in NY.
>
> "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels cars
> run
> > in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do so.
> >
> > Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general MUST
> > witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't
care
> > for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
> >
> > There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe your
> > eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was
watching
> a
> > cartoon.
> >
> > The whole sport is a testimony to what can be achieved when technology,
> > creativity and LOTS and LOTS of money are focused on a singular goal.
Your
> > beer dollars at work...
> >
> > Waaaaayyyy Coooooolllllll!!
> >
> >
> > "James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Now this is why I love drag racing over any other motor sport! Thats
> some
> > > amazing stuff Casa, thanks for sharing it with us.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> > > > horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> > > > b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to
> drive
> > > the
> > > > dragster's supercharger.
> > > > c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
> > > overdrive,
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ahhh, no sweat. My '50 Chevvy coupe/220 cu in Jimmy could've beat it.
> Off a cliff. With a 20 ft head start. NO prob.
> twitch,
> jo4hn
>
I doubt it! I think the dragster would beat it!
You Chevy would excelerate with gravity, where a dragster peaks out at 8X at
launch and probably averages 4X the force of gravity through the run. A
dragster would kick ass on you falling Chevy!
Any math geek want to prove/disprove this??
Greg
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:29:07 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
[snip]
| You have the advantage of a flying start. You run
|the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
|the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you at
|that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
|foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and within
|three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line, a
|quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the top
|fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
|off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
Not the same numbers, but I recall a race here in Tucson (DMAFB) about
1960 when one of my dirt track buddies brought his super-modified dirt
track car to the drag strip and ran a similar race with the Speed
Sport Roadster.
http://www.nhra.com/museum/features/feature6.html
Of course the dirt car had the wrong rear end gear for this and only
ran about 100 mph flat out but the roadster reeled him in about
midtrack. Lyle and Red where way ahead of their time. Never will
forget the sound of that car and the tears running down my cheeks from
the nitro fumes.
Doug,
Your calculations remind me of the time when my Caltech (applied physics)
professor determined that no matter how much horsepower a top fuel vehicle
produced, it was mathematically impossible to cover the 1/4 mile any faster
than 6.2 seconds. (1974)
Dave
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
> >
> [snip]
> > i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
> >accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
>
> Not quite.
>
> v = a * t
> 300mph = 440 fps
> 440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
> Still impressive, though.
>
> > In order to reach 200 mph
> >before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
>
> Not even close.
>
> s = a * (t^2) = v * t
> half-distance = 660 feet
> 200 mph = 293 feet/sec
> 660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
> t = 2.25 sec
> t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
> 660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
> send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
>
>
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TeamCasa writes:
>Doug,
>Your calculations remind me of the time when my Caltech (applied physics)
>professor determined that no matter how much horsepower a top fuel vehicle
>produced, it was mathematically impossible to cover the 1/4 mile any faster
>than 6.2 seconds. (1974)
I recall an article--vaguely, mind you--in Hot Rod Magazine back when it was a
couple, three years old that made the point that, IIRC, anything over 140 or
150 mph in the quarter mile was impossible. That was shredded within a year, I
think. We're kicking around somewhere in the early '50s here, so figure most
running was done with flathead V8s and OHV straight 6s at the time. It was also
done with stock tires, since gluey slicks holding almost no air were a long way
from being developed. I remember dragging with snow tires we buffed down to
near blad states to get a wider profile and that was several years later.
I see now the big deal in motorcycles is the "naked" look. No fairing. Jeez,
how things do change. That's the way they ALL came when I was younger.
Charlie Self
"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Charlie Self wrote:
>TeamCasa writes:
>
>
>
>>Doug,
>>Your calculations remind me of the time when my Caltech (applied physics)
>>professor determined that no matter how much horsepower a top fuel vehicle
>>produced, it was mathematically impossible to cover the 1/4 mile any faster
>>than 6.2 seconds. (1974)
>>
>>
>
>I recall an article--vaguely, mind you--in Hot Rod Magazine back when it was a
>couple, three years old that made the point that, IIRC, anything over 140 or
>150 mph in the quarter mile was impossible. That was shredded within a year, I
>think. We're kicking around somewhere in the early '50s here, so figure most
>running was done with flathead V8s and OHV straight 6s at the time. It was also
>done with stock tires, since gluey slicks holding almost no air were a long way
>from being developed. I remember dragging with snow tires we buffed down to
>near blad states to get a wider profile and that was several years later.
>
>I see now the big deal in motorcycles is the "naked" look. No fairing. Jeez,
>how things do change. That's the way they ALL came when I was younger.
>
>
>Charlie Self
>"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
>
>http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
>
Hah! Before you know it, kids will be bringing back the "eighties"
look. ................. DOH!
--------------070009020901020202090407
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Charlie Self wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">
<pre wrap="">TeamCasa writes:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Doug,
Your calculations remind me of the time when my Caltech (applied physics)
professor determined that no matter how much horsepower a top fuel vehicle
produced, it was mathematically impossible to cover the 1/4 mile any faster
than 6.2 seconds. (1974)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I recall an article--vaguely, mind you--in Hot Rod Magazine back when it was a
couple, three years old that made the point that, IIRC, anything over 140 or
150 mph in the quarter mile was impossible. That was shredded within a year, I
think. We're kicking around somewhere in the early '50s here, so figure most
running was done with flathead V8s and OHV straight 6s at the time. It was also
done with stock tires, since gluey slicks holding almost no air were a long way
from being developed. I remember dragging with snow tires we buffed down to
near blad states to get a wider profile and that was several years later.
I see now the big deal in motorcycles is the "naked" look. No fairing. Jeez,
how things do change. That's the way they ALL came when I was younger.
Charlie Self
"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html">http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hah! Before you know it, kids will be bringing back the "eighties"
look. ................. DOH!<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------070009020901020202090407--
Mark and Kim Smith remarks:
>Hah! Before you know it, kids will be bringing back the "eighties"
>look. ................. DOH!
I think they went past that without looking. Clothing one of my granddaughter's
was wearing on Sunday was more '70s, and early at that.
I expect pretty soon the college boys will be back to wearing worn chambray
work shirts and torn jeans, just as if they'd actually worked for a living,
just as did the '60s and '70s types.
Charlie Self
"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Mark and Kim, I have been doing some work at Brackett Airport lately. I
hope Saturday and Sunday Sunday Sunday will be dry!
Dave
"Mark and Kim Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> TeamCasa wrote:
>
> >With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> Hey, the Winternationals are in my back yard too!! I can almost throw
> rocks at those rails from where I'm at. Heard 'em running on Thursday.
> Too bad they were rained out.
>
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I miss Lyon's, Irwindale and Orange County as well! :(
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I miss Lyon's raceway!
>
> Andy
>
> "Bernie Hunt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I agree, it's truely amazing in person! I went to high school in West
> Covina
> > and it was a rite of spring time to hear the cars running for the Winter
> > Nationals. By junior year we started making it a tradition do ditch
school
> > on qualifying day and go over and watch. Somehow we got pit passes on
time
> > and got within 30 feet of the burn out area. The sound these things
> produce
> > is increadable! With full hearing protection on, you still hear it
through
> > the vibration of your skelatal system. Your head vibrates at the sound
> > frequency, it's wild!
> >
> > Bernie
> > Trying to get back from memory lane and return to adulthood in NY.
> >
> > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels
cars
> > run
> > > in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do so.
> > >
> > > Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general MUST
> > > witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't
> care
> > > for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
> > >
> > > There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe
your
> > > eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was
> watching
> > a
> > > cartoon.
> > >
> > > The whole sport is a testimony to what can be achieved when
technology,
> > > creativity and LOTS and LOTS of money are focused on a singular goal.
> Your
> > > beer dollars at work...
> > >
> > > Waaaaayyyy Coooooolllllll!!
> > >
> > >
> > > "James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Now this is why I love drag racing over any other motor sport! Thats
> > some
> > > > amazing stuff Casa, thanks for sharing it with us.
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes
more
> > > > > horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> > > > > b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to
> > drive
> > > > the
> > > > > dragster's supercharger.
> > > > > c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
> > > > overdrive,
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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Ascot Raceway - many youthful nights spent there!
"Mark and Kim Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J.C. Agajanian presents.................. (said in my best anouncer
voice!)
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:29:07 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this along.
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>Unimaginable Acceleration
The real human cannonballs!
Barry
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:11:19 -0600, "Tom" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels cars run
>in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do so.
The smell of nitro alone is worth the entrance fee.
But the sound (take ear plugs/muffs) of the exhaust is
felt all the way down in the core of your soul (and your
bones).
>Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general MUST
>witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't care
>for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
>
>There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe your
>eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was watching a
>cartoon.
Yeah, you see the tree go green, instantly feel the blast
of exhaust noise, and they're gone, almost out of sight
in mere seconds.
I prefer the funny cars and remember one time when the
front-engined car (wow, long time ago) lost a blower and
sent fuel exploding into flame inside the car. Thank
Buddha for Nomex suits, the guy was alright.
Ah, fond memories of Carlsbad Raceway in SoCal. They held
some of the major motocrosses there, too.
----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
>
> Dave
>
> Unimaginable Acceleration
The lateral thinker in me is saying "don't do this activity with false teeth
or you'll choke to death". While you're at it, toss the wig and tape the
glasses on; also, anyone with a butt plug gets to clean their own car.
Mike Iglesias wrote:
>
> I took my son and one of his friends to Pomona a few years back. They
> let you in the pit area while they're tuning and setting up the
> dragsters (like 20 feet away!). Talk about loud! And the nitro
> fumes were something else too...
Back in high school we used to go to the drags often. Even made a few runs
with the '59 Chevy before the safety regulations made it too expensive for
teenagers.
Top dragsters were hitting 130, maybe a bit more. Fast forward 35 years.
I turned on ESPN and they are showing the Nationals. The announcers says
the last run was something close to 300 mph. I thought he must have made an
error or I was not listening becuase you just can hit those speeds in 1/4
mile. Wow, was I impressed when the showed the run.
--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Geezus......................................................................
.............
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> Unimaginable Acceleration
>
>
>
> a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive
the
> dragster's supercharger.
> c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
overdrive,
> the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.
> Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
> d.. At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air-fuel mixture for nitromethane, the
> flame front temperature measures about 7000 degrees Fahrenheit.
> e.. Nitromethane burn yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above
the
> stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, separated from atmospheric water
> vapor by the searing heat of the exhaust gases.
> f.. The dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This output is
> the equivalent of an arc welder in each cylinder.
> g.. Spark plug electrodes can he totally consumed during a single pass.
> After half-distance, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the
glow
> of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees Fahrenheit. The engine is shut down by
> cutting the fuel flow.
> h.. If a spark plug fails early in the run, unburned nitro can build up
in
> the affected cylinder and explode with sufficient force to blow the
cylinder
> head off in pieces or split the cylinder block in half.
> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
> accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's. In order to reach 200 mph
> before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's. A Top
Fuel
> dragster reaches more than 300 mph before you have completed reading this
> sentence.
> j.. With a redline that can be as high as 9500 rpm, Top Fuel engines
turn
> approximately 510 revolutions from light to light. Including the burnout,
> the engine needs to survive only 900 revolutions under load.
> k.. Assuming that oil of the equipment is paid off, the crew works
gratis,
> and nothing breaks, each run costs an estimated $1000 per second.
> l.. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds
for
> the quarter-mile. (October 5, 2003, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record
> is 333.25 mph as measured over the last 66 feet of the quarter mile
November
> 9, 2003, Doug Kalitta).
>
>
> a.. Putting all of this into perspective: you are driving the average
> $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the
> road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured
> quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You
run
> the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
> the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you
at
> that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
> foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and
within
> three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line,
a
> quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the
top
> fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
> off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
>
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
You should see a 1/24 scale dragster doing over 100 mph. It ain't quite like
a real top fueler but it does the scale 1/4 mile in under .500 seconds.
John Emmons
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
>
> Dave
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this along.
>>
>[snip]
>> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
>>accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
>
>Not quite.
>
>v = a * t
>300mph = 440 fps
>440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
>Still impressive, though.
ayup. 4g's for 4.5 seconds gives an end speed of just under 400 mph.
>> In order to reach 200 mph
>>before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
>
>Not even close.
WUPS! have to disagree
>s = a * (t^2) = v * t
>half-distance = 660 feet
>200 mph = 293 feet/sec
>660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
>t = 2.25 sec
>t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
>660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
That's an _average_ acceleration.
Which assumes constant acceleration.
Real-world, the acceleration is _not_ constant.
It decreases with time.
If one assumes 8g at 'launch', decreasing linearly to 3+ g by the end of
the first second, and constant 3+ g to the end of the quarter-mile, the
elapsed time is approx. 4.5 seconds, and final velocity is approx 330MPH.
This is consistent with documented hardware performance. <grin>
It doesn't precisely match the stated conditions, in that one is past the
halfway mark at 2.2 sec, with a speed of 242 mph. This is _not_ unexpected,
because the rate of decrease of acceleration (hows that for confusing? :) is
not constant; at high acceleration, the acceleration bleeds off faster than
when it's lower.
8+ g _initially_ (i.e., 'at launch') *is* believable. It's a 'peak' value,
not a 'sustained' one.
I like to relate this acceleration to the space shuttle...about twice
that of the shuttle. Granted it's only for about 3 to 4 seconds, and
the shuttle is 8 minutes...
Some more shuttle fun facts...
It takes only about eight minutes for the Space Shuttle to accelerate
to a speed of more than 17,000 miles (27,358 kilometers) per hour.
The Space Shuttle main engine weighs 1/7th as much as a train engine
but delivers as much horsepower as 39 locomotives.
The turbopump on the Space Shuttle main engine is so powerful it could
drain an average family-sized swimming pool in 25 seconds.
The Space Shuttle's three main engines and two solid rocket boosters
generate some 7.3 million pounds (3.3 million kilograms) of thrust at
liftoff. Compare that with America's first two manned launch vehicles,
the Redstone which produced 78,000 pounds (35,381 kilograms) of
thrust, and the Atlas, which produced 360,000 pounds (163, 926
kilograms).
The liquid hydrogen in the Space Shuttle main engine is -423 degrees
Fahrenheit (-253 degrees Centigrade), the second coldest liquid on
Earth, and when burned with liquid oxygen, the temperature in the
engine's combustion chamber reaches +6,000 degrees F. (+3,316 degrees
C.)
The energy released by the three Space Shuttle main engines is
equivalent to the output of 23 Hoover Dams.
Each of the Shuttle's solid rocket motors burns 5 tons (5,080
kilograms) of propellant per second, a total of 1.1 million pounds
(500,000 kilograms) in 120 seconds. The speed of the gases exiting the
nozzle is more than 6,000 miles (9,656 kilometers) per hour, about
five times the speed of sound or three times the speed of a
high-powered rifle bullet. The plume of flame ranges up to 500 feet
(152 meters) long.
The combustion gases in a solid rocket motor are at a temperature of
6,100 degrees Fahrenheit (3,371 degrees Centigrade), two-thirds the
temperature of the surface of the sun. While that temperature is hot
enough to boil steel, special insulation inside the motor protects the
steel case so well that the outside of the case reaches only about 130
degrees F. (54 degrees C.).
A stacked booster is the same height as the Statue of Liberty (not
including pedestal) -- 151 feet (46 meters) -- but weighs almost three
times as much.
The four engines of a Boeing 747 jet produce 188,000 pounds (85,277
kilograms) of thrust, while just one SRM produces more than 17 times
as much thrust -- 3.3 million pounds (1.5 million kilograms). A pair
of SRM's are more powerful than 35 jumbo jets at takeoff.
If their heat energy could be converted to electric power, two SRMs
firing for two minutes would produce 2.2 million kilowatt hours of
power, enough to supply the entire power demand of 87,000 homes for a
full day.
The Shuttle's Remote Manipulator System (RMS), or robot arm, provided
by the Canadian Space Agency, weighs about 905 pounds (411 kilograms)
on Earth but can move cargo in space weighing 66,000 pounds (29,938
kilograms), objects about the size of a Greyhound bus.
> Unimaginable Acceleration
SNIP
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
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Now this is why I love drag racing over any other motor sport! Thats some
amazing stuff Casa, thanks for sharing it with us.
Jim
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive
the
> dragster's supercharger.
> c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
overdrive,
I agree, it's truely amazing in person! I went to high school in West Covina
and it was a rite of spring time to hear the cars running for the Winter
Nationals. By junior year we started making it a tradition do ditch school
on qualifying day and go over and watch. Somehow we got pit passes on time
and got within 30 feet of the burn out area. The sound these things produce
is increadable! With full hearing protection on, you still hear it through
the vibration of your skelatal system. Your head vibrates at the sound
frequency, it's wild!
Bernie
Trying to get back from memory lane and return to adulthood in NY.
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels cars
run
> in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do so.
>
> Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general MUST
> witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't care
> for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
>
> There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe your
> eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was watching
a
> cartoon.
>
> The whole sport is a testimony to what can be achieved when technology,
> creativity and LOTS and LOTS of money are focused on a singular goal. Your
> beer dollars at work...
>
> Waaaaayyyy Coooooolllllll!!
>
>
> "James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Now this is why I love drag racing over any other motor sport! Thats
some
> > amazing stuff Casa, thanks for sharing it with us.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> > > horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> > > b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to
drive
> > the
> > > dragster's supercharger.
> > > c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
> > overdrive,
> >
> >
>
>
"SpazMaTaz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I like to relate this acceleration to the space shuttle...about twice
> that of the shuttle. Granted it's only for about 3 to 4 seconds, and
> the shuttle is 8 minutes...
>
> Some more shuttle fun facts...
>
> It takes only about eight minutes for the Space Shuttle to accelerate
> to a speed of more than 17,000 miles (27,358 kilometers) per hour.
The dragster could get up to 17,000 mph in 3 minutes if it had a fuel tank
that big. ;~)
TeamCasa wrote:
>
>
> a.. Putting all of this into perspective: you are driving the average
> $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the
> road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured
> quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run
> the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
> the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you at
> that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
> foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and within
> three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line, a
> quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the top
> fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
> off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
>
>
You omitted this part before the last sentence:) Now that gentleman, is
acceleration. Never mind how quick your car is away from a stoplight,
forget about the time you spun your tires in second gear.
As I recall we are paraphrasing; the book was about legendary cars and
the above scenario was about a W125 Mercedes Benz Grand Prix car of the
1930's.
While the power generated is impressive, what I find astounding is that
it can be transferred to the pavement with what, a little over a square
feet of contact area.
For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels cars run
in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do so.
Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general MUST
witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't care
for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe your
eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was watching a
cartoon.
The whole sport is a testimony to what can be achieved when technology,
creativity and LOTS and LOTS of money are focused on a singular goal. Your
beer dollars at work...
Waaaaayyyy Coooooolllllll!!
"James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Now this is why I love drag racing over any other motor sport! Thats some
> amazing stuff Casa, thanks for sharing it with us.
>
> Jim
>
>
> "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> >
> >
> > a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> > horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> > b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive
> the
> > dragster's supercharger.
> > c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
> overdrive,
>
>
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
Top dragsters were hitting 130, maybe a bit more. Fast forward 35 years.
> I turned on ESPN and they are showing the Nationals. The announcers says
> the last run was something close to 300 mph. I thought he must have made
an
> error or I was not listening becuase you just can hit those speeds in 1/4
> mile. Wow, was I impressed when the showed the run.
> --
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>
If it impressed you on TV, you absolutely MUST go see it live someday.
Tom M.
Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
> Not quite.
>
> v = a * t
.....
>
> Not even close.
>
> s = a * (t^2) = v * t
(Drumming fingers on table, biting lip ...)
Your assuming acceleration constant.
Your premise is faulty.
This is as nice as I can be.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
Greg O wrote:
>
> I doubt it! I think the dragster would beat it!
> You Chevy would excelerate with gravity, where a dragster peaks out at 8X at
> launch and probably averages 4X the force of gravity through the run. A
> dragster would kick ass on you falling Chevy!
>
> Any math geek want to prove/disprove this??
> Greg
>
Hey! Gotta have a level playing field here. Even if it is vertically
level. ? [WTF did he say??]
jo4hn
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
> >
> [snip]
> > i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
> >accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
>
> Not quite.
>
> v = a * t
> 300mph = 440 fps
> 440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
> Still impressive, though.
>
> > In order to reach 200 mph
> >before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
>
> Not even close.
>
> s = a * (t^2) = v * t
> half-distance = 660 feet
> 200 mph = 293 feet/sec
> 660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
> t = 2.25 sec
> t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
> 660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
> send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
While googling around for a confirmation of the acceleration, I came across
a Popular Science article where they talk about the load at launch being
about 4.5 g.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/0,12543,357237-1,00.html
The article goes on to say that they don't really know how much horsepower
the nitro engines produce. They've never put a top fuel nitro engine on a
dyno. The best estimate from extrapolations of dyna tests on alcohol are
6000-7000HP.
todd
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels
> cars run in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity
> to do so.
>
The first time I went I noticed that the shock waves from the engines were
shaking my hair!
The second time I went we walked down to the finish line. If you've never
experience true "fight or flight" response to stress, having two screaming
top-fuel dragsters coming at you at 300 mph only about 50 feet away will do
the trick.
It's so loud and intense that you can't even think. Pure adrenaline rush
for the spectator.
--
John Snow
"If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be here"
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> The article goes on to say that they don't really know how much
> horsepower the nitro engines produce. They've never put a top fuel
> nitro engine on a dyno. The best estimate from extrapolations of dyna
> tests on alcohol are 6000-7000HP.
Note that to get a dyno value requires that the engine remain running
for several seconds, considerably longer than a top fuel engine is
able to run (the average life of such an engine is less than 1000
revolutions).
John
That "first time" was at the Green Valley Raceway in Grand Prairie, TX,
sorely missed now. Fortunately we now have the Texas Motorplex which hosts
two NHRA events each year. Woohoo!!
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I miss Lyon's, Irwindale and Orange County as well! :(
>
>
> "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I miss Lyon's raceway!
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > "Bernie Hunt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I agree, it's truely amazing in person! I went to high school in West
> > Covina
> > > and it was a rite of spring time to hear the cars running for the
Winter
> > > Nationals. By junior year we started making it a tradition do ditch
> school
> > > on qualifying day and go over and watch. Somehow we got pit passes on
> time
> > > and got within 30 feet of the burn out area. The sound these things
> > produce
> > > is increadable! With full hearing protection on, you still hear it
> through
> > > the vibration of your skelatal system. Your head vibrates at the sound
> > > frequency, it's wild!
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > > Trying to get back from memory lane and return to adulthood in NY.
> > >
> > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels
> cars
> > > run
> > > > in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do
so.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general
MUST
> > > > witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't
> > care
> > > > for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
> > > >
> > > > There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe
> your
> > > > eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was
> > watching
> > > a
> > > > cartoon.
> > > >
> > > > The whole sport is a testimony to what can be achieved when
> technology,
> > > > creativity and LOTS and LOTS of money are focused on a singular
goal.
> > Your
> > > > beer dollars at work...
> > > >
> > > > Waaaaayyyy Coooooolllllll!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in
message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > Now this is why I love drag racing over any other motor sport!
Thats
> > > some
> > > > > amazing stuff Casa, thanks for sharing it with us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes
> more
> > > > > > horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> > > > > > b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power
to
> > > drive
> > > > > the
> > > > > > dragster's supercharger.
> > > > > > c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger
on
> > > > > overdrive,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---
John gotcha.
A crapsman table saw would beat a dragster if BOTH fell off a cliff
and the tablesaw had a 20' head start. Don't take a math geek to see
this.
Art
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ahhh, no sweat. My '50 Chevvy coupe/220 cu in Jimmy could've beat it.
> > Off a cliff. With a 20 ft head start. NO prob.
> > twitch,
> > jo4hn
> >
>
> I doubt it! I think the dragster would beat it!
> You Chevy would excelerate with gravity, where a dragster peaks out at 8X at
> launch and probably averages 4X the force of gravity through the run. A
> dragster would kick ass on you falling Chevy!
>
> Any math geek want to prove/disprove this??
> Greg
>
I finally got it! Now I know why sex is dangerous and racing is safe! (it
used to be the other way around)
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >>With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
> >>
> >[snip]
> >> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
> >>accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
> >
> >Not quite.
> >
> >v = a * t
> >300mph = 440 fps
> >440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
> >Still impressive, though.
>
> ayup. 4g's for 4.5 seconds gives an end speed of just under 400 mph.
>
> >> In order to reach 200 mph
> >>before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
> >
> >Not even close.
>
> WUPS! have to disagree
>
> >s = a * (t^2) = v * t
> >half-distance = 660 feet
> >200 mph = 293 feet/sec
> >660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
> >t = 2.25 sec
> >t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
> >660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
>
> That's an _average_ acceleration.
>
> Which assumes constant acceleration.
>
> Real-world, the acceleration is _not_ constant.
>
> It decreases with time.
>
> If one assumes 8g at 'launch', decreasing linearly to 3+ g by the end of
> the first second, and constant 3+ g to the end of the quarter-mile, the
> elapsed time is approx. 4.5 seconds, and final velocity is approx 330MPH.
>
> This is consistent with documented hardware performance. <grin>
>
>
> It doesn't precisely match the stated conditions, in that one is past the
> halfway mark at 2.2 sec, with a speed of 242 mph. This is _not_
unexpected,
> because the rate of decrease of acceleration (hows that for confusing? :)
is
> not constant; at high acceleration, the acceleration bleeds off faster
than
> when it's lower.
>
> 8+ g _initially_ (i.e., 'at launch') *is* believable. It's a 'peak' value,
> not a 'sustained' one.
>
>
TeamCasa wrote:
>
> c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive,
> the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.
> Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
>
And
> h.. If a spark plug fails early in the run, unburned nitro can build up in
> the affected cylinder and explode with sufficient force to blow the cylinder
> head off in pieces or split the cylinder block in half.
Not to mention not backing off the throttle then getting back into it.
There's a Top Fuel Harley contender/ National rated rider up the road a ways. I
was told he was part of the way through a run, noticed his hand had slipped on
the throttle, so he cranked it back to full. Such are the mistakes made in the
heat of battle.
He hydro locked the engine, blew the head. It caught him in the chest.
Statistically he should have died.
You know what they say about statistics.
He did spend quite a long time in the hospital getting his guts put back in place.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
todd wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
>>
>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
>>>
>>>
>along.
>
>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
>>>accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
>>>
>>>
>>Not quite.
>>
>>v = a * t
>>300mph = 440 fps
>>440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
>>Still impressive, though.
>>
>>
>>
>>>In order to reach 200 mph
>>>before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
>>>
>>>
>>Not even close.
>>
>>s = a * (t^2) = v * t
>>half-distance = 660 feet
>>200 mph = 293 feet/sec
>>660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
>>t = 2.25 sec
>>t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
>>660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
>>
>>--
>>Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>>
>>For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
>>send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
>>
>>
>
>While googling around for a confirmation of the acceleration, I came across
>a Popular Science article where they talk about the load at launch being
>about 4.5 g.
>http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/0,12543,357237-1,00.html
>
>The article goes on to say that they don't really know how much horsepower
>the nitro engines produce. They've never put a top fuel nitro engine on a
>dyno. The best estimate from extrapolations of dyna tests on alcohol are
>6000-7000HP.
>
>todd
>
>
>
I wonder who will volunteer first to blow up a $150,000 motor on a dyno
so they can measure the hp's?
In article <[email protected]>,
Hitch <[email protected]> wrote:
>It's so loud and intense that you can't even think. Pure adrenaline rush
>for the spectator.
I took my son and one of his friends to Pomona a few years back. They
let you in the pit area while they're tuning and setting up the dragsters
(like 20 feet away!). Talk about loud! And the nitro fumes were
something else too...
--
Mike Iglesias Email: [email protected]
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
"Hitch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels
> > cars run in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity
> > to do so.
> >
>
> The first time I went I noticed that the shock waves from the engines were
> shaking my hair!
>
> The second time I went we walked down to the finish line. If you've never
> experience true "fight or flight" response to stress, having two screaming
> top-fuel dragsters coming at you at 300 mph only about 50 feet away will
do
> the trick.
Next closest thing I can think of is being the track director when a "super
mod" puller is headed toward you with 5 or 6 full blown alky burners @ full
scream, running about 40-50MPH with that damn sled right behind it!
--
Nahmie
Those who know the least will always know it the loudest.
>
> It's so loud and intense that you can't even think. Pure adrenaline rush
> for the spectator.
>
>
>
> --
> John Snow
> "If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be here"
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004
Larry Jaques wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:11:19 -0600, "Tom" <[email protected]>
>brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>
>
>>For those following this thread that have never seen the Top Fuels cars run
>>in person, I heartily encourage you to take any opportunity to do so.
>>
>>
>
>The smell of nitro alone is worth the entrance fee.
>But the sound (take ear plugs/muffs) of the exhaust is
>felt all the way down in the core of your soul (and your
>bones).
>
>
>
>
>>Anyone with any interest in technology or "neat stuff" in general MUST
>>witness this spectacle at least once in your life. Even if you don't care
>>for racing in general, you will be amazed at what you see.
>>
>>There are few things in life that will truly make you "not believe your
>>eyes", but this is one of them. My first time, I felt like I was watching a
>>cartoon.
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, you see the tree go green, instantly feel the blast
>of exhaust noise, and they're gone, almost out of sight
>in mere seconds.
>
>I prefer the funny cars and remember one time when the
>front-engined car (wow, long time ago) lost a blower and
>sent fuel exploding into flame inside the car. Thank
>Buddha for Nomex suits, the guy was alright.
>
>Ah, fond memories of Carlsbad Raceway in SoCal. They held
>some of the major motocrosses there, too.
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
> --== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
>http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
J.C. Agajanian presents.................. (said in my best anouncer voice!)
Greg O wrote:
>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Ahhh, no sweat. My '50 Chevvy coupe/220 cu in Jimmy could've beat it.
>>Off a cliff. With a 20 ft head start. NO prob.
>>twitch,
>>jo4hn
>>
>>
>>
>
>I doubt it! I think the dragster would beat it!
>You Chevy would excelerate with gravity, where a dragster peaks out at 8X at
>launch and probably averages 4X the force of gravity through the run. A
>dragster would kick ass on you falling Chevy!
>
>Any math geek want to prove/disprove this??
>Greg
>
>
Yeah, but you forgot to factor in the twitch!
TeamCasa wrote:
>Ascot Raceway - many youthful nights spent there!
>
>
>"Mark and Kim Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>>J.C. Agajanian presents.................. (said in my best anouncer
>>
>>
>voice!)
>
>
>
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
>http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
>
His boy Chris was my neighbor a bunch of years back. He owned one of
the faster cars in town. The other fast car was owned by the son a
german fella who owned a VW repair shop in the city. Nice fast Porche.
Mueller Motors(?) maybe? Same town Phil Spector is having a little
trouble in.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:46:19 GMT, Kai Seymour <[email protected]>
wrote:
>TeamCasa wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> a.. Putting all of this into perspective: you are driving the average
>> $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the
>> road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured
>> quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run
>> the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
>> the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you at
>> that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
>> foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and within
>> three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line, a
>> quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the top
>> fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
>> off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
>>
=====================================
This is not the kind of discussion I thought I would read this morning
in the woodworking newsgroup....
But as a 60 + yo serious woodworker and a Car Nut I had to chip in...
John Lingenfelter unfortunately died receintly ...and the Corvette
community is still mourning his passing... Only good thing is that he
was behind the wheel with his right foot planted to the floor ...
doing what he enjoyed....
Bob Griffiths
64 72 & 99 Ragtops
76 79 & 95 Coupes
68 SS 396 Chevelle for the track
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:26:06 -0500, Mike Patterson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>And I remember a high school physics teacher who "proved" that an atomic bomb would produce a straight-line
>wind of about 400MPH 120 miles away from the detonation point. I don't
>remember what power he assumed for the bomb, but I still don't believe
>it.
>
>Mike
>
Let's not find out.
In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote:
>With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this along.
>
[snip]
> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
>accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
Not quite.
v = a * t
300mph = 440 fps
440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
Still impressive, though.
> In order to reach 200 mph
>before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
Not even close.
s = a * (t^2) = v * t
half-distance = 660 feet
200 mph = 293 feet/sec
660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
t = 2.25 sec
t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug,
>Your calculations remind me of the time when my Caltech (applied physics)
>professor determined that no matter how much horsepower a top fuel vehicle
>produced, it was mathematically impossible to cover the 1/4 mile any faster
>than 6.2 seconds. (1974)
>
Sounds to me like he was in the wrong career field. MIght've been better
suited to meteorology or political polling.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
Cool!
Rob
--
******PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW EMAIL ADDRESS******
[email protected]
Please visit our (recently updated) web site:
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> Unimaginable Acceleration
>
>
>
> a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive
the
> dragster's supercharger.
> c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
overdrive,
> the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.
> Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
> d.. At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air-fuel mixture for nitromethane, the
> flame front temperature measures about 7000 degrees Fahrenheit.
> e.. Nitromethane burn yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above
the
> stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, separated from atmospheric water
> vapor by the searing heat of the exhaust gases.
> f.. The dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This output is
> the equivalent of an arc welder in each cylinder.
> g.. Spark plug electrodes can he totally consumed during a single pass.
> After half-distance, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the
glow
> of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees Fahrenheit. The engine is shut down by
> cutting the fuel flow.
> h.. If a spark plug fails early in the run, unburned nitro can build up
in
> the affected cylinder and explode with sufficient force to blow the
cylinder
> head off in pieces or split the cylinder block in half.
> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
> accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's. In order to reach 200 mph
> before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's. A Top
Fuel
> dragster reaches more than 300 mph before you have completed reading this
> sentence.
> j.. With a redline that can be as high as 9500 rpm, Top Fuel engines
turn
> approximately 510 revolutions from light to light. Including the burnout,
> the engine needs to survive only 900 revolutions under load.
> k.. Assuming that oil of the equipment is paid off, the crew works
gratis,
> and nothing breaks, each run costs an estimated $1000 per second.
> l.. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds
for
> the quarter-mile. (October 5, 2003, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record
> is 333.25 mph as measured over the last 66 feet of the quarter mile
November
> 9, 2003, Doug Kalitta).
>
>
> a.. Putting all of this into perspective: you are driving the average
> $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the
> road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured
> quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You
run
> the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
> the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you
at
> that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
> foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and
within
> three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line,
a
> quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the
top
> fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
> off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
>
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Unimaginable Acceleration
Holy Crap. :)
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
Knew a family that had a semi-pro track near/behind his house. Said he
wondered why the property was so cheap. Didn't take long for him to figure
it out the first fri. night.
Just saw History Channel's take on Drag racing wow stuff. Concluded that
the allowance of straight NO system along with computer controlled
fuel/booster injection the current speed record could be blown out of the
water.
--
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
along.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> Unimaginable Acceleration
>
>
>
> a.. One Top Fuel dragster's 500-cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more
> horsepower than the first four rows of the Daytona 500.
> b.. A stock Dodge Hemi V-8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive
the
> dragster's supercharger.
> c.. With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on
overdrive,
> the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.
> Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
> d.. At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air-fuel mixture for nitromethane, the
> flame front temperature measures about 7000 degrees Fahrenheit.
> e.. Nitromethane burn yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above
the
> stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, separated from atmospheric water
> vapor by the searing heat of the exhaust gases.
> f.. The dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This output is
> the equivalent of an arc welder in each cylinder.
> g.. Spark plug electrodes can he totally consumed during a single pass.
> After half-distance, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the
glow
> of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees Fahrenheit. The engine is shut down by
> cutting the fuel flow.
> h.. If a spark plug fails early in the run, unburned nitro can build up
in
> the affected cylinder and explode with sufficient force to blow the
cylinder
> head off in pieces or split the cylinder block in half.
> i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
> accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's. In order to reach 200 mph
> before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's. A Top
Fuel
> dragster reaches more than 300 mph before you have completed reading this
> sentence.
> j.. With a redline that can be as high as 9500 rpm, Top Fuel engines
turn
> approximately 510 revolutions from light to light. Including the burnout,
> the engine needs to survive only 900 revolutions under load.
> k.. Assuming that oil of the equipment is paid off, the crew works
gratis,
> and nothing breaks, each run costs an estimated $1000 per second.
> l.. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds
for
> the quarter-mile. (October 5, 2003, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record
> is 333.25 mph as measured over the last 66 feet of the quarter mile
November
> 9, 2003, Doug Kalitta).
>
>
> a.. Putting all of this into perspective: you are driving the average
> $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the
> road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured
> quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You
run
> the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past
> the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you
at
> that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your
> foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your ear drums, and
within
> three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line,
a
> quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the
top
> fueler spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you
> off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.
>
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
And I remember a high school physics teacher who "proved" to the class
that ice cubes would come to a boil faster than a pan of room temp.
water with the same volume due to the rate of temperature change being
so much higher.
He also "proved" that an atomic bomb would produce a straight-line
wind of about 400MPH 120 miles away from the detonation point. I don't
remember what power he assumed for the bomb, but I still don't believe
it.
Mike
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:55:31 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Doug,
>Your calculations remind me of the time when my Caltech (applied physics)
>professor determined that no matter how much horsepower a top fuel vehicle
>produced, it was mathematically impossible to cover the 1/4 mile any faster
>than 6.2 seconds. (1974)
>
>Dave
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> >With the NHRA Winternationals in my backyard, I thought I'd pass this
>along.
>> >
>> [snip]
>> > i.. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, Top Fuel dragsters must
>> >accelerate at an average of more than 4 g's.
>>
>> Not quite.
>>
>> v = a * t
>> 300mph = 440 fps
>> 440 fps / 4.5s = 100 feet/sec/sec approx, slightly over 3 g.
>> Still impressive, though.
>>
>> > In order to reach 200 mph
>> >before half-distance, the launch acceleration approaches 8 g's.
>>
>> Not even close.
>>
>> s = a * (t^2) = v * t
>> half-distance = 660 feet
>> 200 mph = 293 feet/sec
>> 660 feet = 293 feet/sec * t
>> t = 2.25 sec
>> t^2 = 5.07 sec^2
>> 660 feet / 5.07 sec^2 = 130 feet/sec^2 = 4g approx
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>>
>> For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
>> send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
>http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:46:19 GMT, Kai Seymour <[email protected]>
wrote:
[snip]
|While the power generated is impressive, what I find astounding is that
|it can be transferred to the pavement with what, a little over a square
|feet of contact area.
What you must consider is that the "pavement" is as highly engineered
as the cars.
Traction improving compounds are applied so that the tires "hook up"
much better than in the days when I was drag racing (late 50s-early
60s)
See: http://www.bazellracefuels.com/VHT.htm
SpazMaTaz wrote:
> I like to relate this acceleration to the space shuttle...about twice
> that of the shuttle. Granted it's only for about 3 to 4 seconds, and
> the shuttle is 8 minutes...
>
> Some more shuttle fun facts...
You forgot: The longer the engines burn the greater the potential acceleration.
?
Because the shuttle gets lighter.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
jo4hn wrote:
>
>
> TeamCasa wrote:
>
>> I miss Lyon's, Irwindale and Orange County as well! :(
>>
> Both Irwindales... sigh. :-(
> j4
>
Now that I think about it, there were at least three. Perhaps four.
They moved it at least once in the area around Arrow Hwy and Live Oak,
IIRC. Gawd that's purely ancient history. Sigh.
jo4hn