"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any man-made material will have some out-gassing. Wrap it in plastic,
> or perhaps better yet, cover it with Styrofoam sheets. I have
> goldfish and they over winter fine without any covers, although the
> pond does not freeze solid. Another option is using a pond heater.
>
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:52:55 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come spring.
So
> >I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But bringing
it
> >home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I
imagine
> >any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >
Actually I bought the OSB to cover the Styrofoam. :)
I had some bird netting on to keep out the leaves, but the neighbour has a
honey locust and the damn small leaves pass right through. So I made a 2x4
frame, strapped it every three feet and covered it with door screen. I plan
to use the same frame for my winter cover, by stuffing it with Styrofoam and
covering it up with NOT OSB.
I'm in Zone 5 and the water in my puddle is only 2' deep, so it could freeze
pretty deep. I plan to use a small heater to keep the bottom of the pond
around 40F (hibernation temps). But without the cover the heating bill would
be a killer.
Thu, Oct 7, 2004, 12:21am [email protected] (Bill=A0Stock) says:
<snip> I'm in Zone 5 and the water in my puddle is only 2' deep, so it
could freeze pretty deep. I plan to use a small heater to keep the
bottom of the pond around 40F (hibernation temps). But without the cover
the heating bill would be a killer.
Fascinating. Did you know that some fish (Hell, maybe all of them,
for all I know about it) have the ability to be frozen, then go right
along with their lives when thawed? Be an interesting experiment, see
how many survive.
Heater? How about a bubbler instead. They use 'em to keep ice from
forming around moored boats. Simple enough to whip one up.
But, what I'm really wondering is, if you cover the pond up, with
fish in it, where's their supply of new oxygen gonna come from, once
they use what's there? I'm thinking a cover would make it sort of a
sealed environment, with only X much oxygen. That's supposed to be why
they change the water in fish bowls, that don't have air pumps.
Or are you talking about a cover not resting on the water?
On the other hand, if it's only carp and/or goldfish, I wouldn't
worry about it.
JOAT
I smile because I know my God loves me. You on the other hand, he
doesn't much like.
Damn, just as soon as I hit the send button.
Remembered, when I was a kid in MI, a family had an outside pond.
Dunno how deep, but believe me, it would have frozen solid even if it
was 4 feet deep. They had a simple solution to the fishy problem. They
netted the fish in the fall, kept them in the house all winter,
presumebly in a tank, not the bathtub, and put them back out in the
spring. No prob.
JOAT
I smile because I know my God loves me. You on the other hand, he
doesn't much like.
You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma wasn't a
big piscine problem....
"Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come
spring.
> So
> > I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But
bringing
> it
> > home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I
> imagine
> > any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
And just why would a cover run off anywhere but outside the pond? And are
your chemical plants just a _touch_ less dilute than fumes?
Oh well, you have a fine answer anyway.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:32:50 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
> >
> >Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma
wasn't a
> >big piscine problem....
>
> Formaldehyde or phenol runoffs are a _big_ problem for fish. They're
> far more sensitive than we are.
>
> I used to live in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Every so often the Egger plant
> in Hexham would have a spill and de-piscilate the whole upper Tyne.
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
You mean fish _other_ than carp/koi/goldfish? They're air breathers, which
is why they can live in such polluted waters. Now trout would be a
different matter.
It doesn't make sense not to cover the lid with an impermeable barrier.
That, and vertical installation is what it's designed for. Also, a few days
in the open air rather than stacked one upon the other will allow a good
outgas. The other presumption is that you have a grade sloping _away_ from
the pool so that the really toxic stuff like lawn chemicals won't have free
run in. Extend your cover out enough so its drip line is out there.
"Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > And just why would a cover run off anywhere but outside the pond? And
are
> > your chemical plants just a _touch_ less dilute than fumes?
> >
> > Oh well, you have a fine answer anyway.
>
> Fish are a lot like birds, very sensitive to environmental toxins.
> Chlorinated drinking water will kill them, while it's "safe" for humans.
>
>
> > "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:32:50 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
> > >
> > > >You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
> > > >
> > > >Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma
> > wasn't a
> > > >big piscine problem....
> > >
> > > Formaldehyde or phenol runoffs are a _big_ problem for fish. They're
> > > far more sensitive than we are.
> > >
> > > I used to live in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Every so often the Egger plant
> > > in Hexham would have a spill and de-piscilate the whole upper Tyne.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Smert' spamionam
> >
> >
>
>
Any man-made material will have some out-gassing. Wrap it in plastic,
or perhaps better yet, cover it with Styrofoam sheets. I have
goldfish and they over winter fine without any covers, although the
pond does not freeze solid. Another option is using a pond heater.
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:52:55 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come spring. So
>I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But bringing it
>home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I imagine
>any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
>
>TIA
>
>
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:32:50 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
>
>Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma wasn't a
>big piscine problem....
Formaldehyde or phenol runoffs are a _big_ problem for fish. They're
far more sensitive than we are.
I used to live in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Every so often the Egger plant
in Hexham would have a spill and de-piscilate the whole upper Tyne.
--
Smert' spamionam
"Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come spring.
So
> I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But bringing
it
> home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I
imagine
> any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
>
> TIA
>
>
I should have been more specific. This stuff is exterior grade OSB. Not MDF,
particle board or 'Flake Board'. We always called it Chip Board as a kid,
but this stuff seems denser than the stuff I remember. Doesn't seem furry
like the stuff I remember either. It's kind of a greenish yellow with a
yellow sealant around all four edges.
According to the generic blurb I read, it's not a significant source of
formaldehyde. Man, I wouldn't want to meet the super rat they tested it on;
it sure does stink. I'll have to pull the manufacturing code and get the
straight poop.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:28:03 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >And just why would a cover run off anywhere but outside the pond?
>
> No. Run off near a pond tends to run into it. Certainly does the way
> I've built most ponds, with a butyl liner and its edges buried beneath
> the border turf to hide it.
>
> >And are
> >your chemical plants just a _touch_ less dilute than fumes?
>
> We're not talking about fumes, we're talking about rain run-off. I
> wouldn't know that (or like to guess it) without measuring, but it's
> certainly within the bounds of possibility.
>
> I'd probably use plywood as a pond cover, and with some reasonable
> attempt at weatherproofing I wouldn't worry about it. But I wouldn't
> drop offcuts in the pond, and I wouldn't use suspect timber to make
> any sort of pond-adjacent structure. If I do pond-pilings, I use larch
> or chestnut, and I wouldn't even be too sure about the larch if it
> were a koi pond.
Andy,
Will exterior grade plywood be OK or does it contain toxins too?
> --
> Smert' spamionam
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:32:50 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
> >
> >Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma
wasn't a
> >big piscine problem....
>
> Formaldehyde or phenol runoffs are a _big_ problem for fish. They're
> far more sensitive than we are.
>
> I used to live in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Every so often the Egger plant
> in Hexham would have a spill and de-piscilate the whole upper Tyne.
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
Thanks Andy. I think I'll wrap this contraption in plastic to help prevent
leaching.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:52:55 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
> calmly ranted:
>
> >I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come spring.
So
> >I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But bringing
it
> >home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I
imagine
> >any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
>
> Probably a combination of glue and formaldehyde smell.
> Loverly, wot?
>
Ah, Herring brine.
> --
> Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
> ----------------------------------
> www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design
>
"Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:32:50 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>>
>> >You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
>> >
>> >Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma
> wasn't a
>> >big piscine problem....
>>
>> Formaldehyde or phenol runoffs are a _big_ problem for fish. They're
>> far more sensitive than we are.
>>
>> I used to live in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Every so often the Egger plant
>> in Hexham would have a spill and de-piscilate the whole upper Tyne.
>>
>> --
>> Smert' spamionam
>
> Thanks Andy. I think I'll wrap this contraption in plastic to help
> prevent leaching.
>
Maybe a shellac-based primer first?
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And just why would a cover run off anywhere but outside the pond? And are
> your chemical plants just a _touch_ less dilute than fumes?
>
> Oh well, you have a fine answer anyway.
Fish are a lot like birds, very sensitive to environmental toxins.
Chlorinated drinking water will kill them, while it's "safe" for humans.
> "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:32:50 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
> >
> > >You smelled the plastic pool covers on a warm day?
> > >
> > >Any information you find would be for humans. Last I heard, asthma
> wasn't a
> > >big piscine problem....
> >
> > Formaldehyde or phenol runoffs are a _big_ problem for fish. They're
> > far more sensitive than we are.
> >
> > I used to live in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Every so often the Egger plant
> > in Hexham would have a spill and de-piscilate the whole upper Tyne.
> >
> > --
> > Smert' spamionam
>
>
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:12:52 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Will exterior grade plywood be OK or does it contain toxins too?
It certainly contains them - the question is whether they're going to
run out of it if you have rain on it, and in what sort of quantity.
For plywood I doubt it - there's just much less glue in there,
compared to chip- or fibreboards. I'd use plywood quite happily, but I
never use chipboard outdoors for anythign more than short-term
shuttering.
I've asked my tame chemist to try and find some likely numbers for
formaldehyde from sheetgoods. Although he's a bit busy at present,
cleaning mercury out of toilets and sending tellurium off for
disposal. What shocking things they get up to in waste disposal - I've
never even seen any tellurium.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:28:03 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>And just why would a cover run off anywhere but outside the pond?
No. Run off near a pond tends to run into it. Certainly does the way
I've built most ponds, with a butyl liner and its edges buried beneath
the border turf to hide it.
>And are
>your chemical plants just a _touch_ less dilute than fumes?
We're not talking about fumes, we're talking about rain run-off. I
wouldn't know that (or like to guess it) without measuring, but it's
certainly within the bounds of possibility.
I'd probably use plywood as a pond cover, and with some reasonable
attempt at weatherproofing I wouldn't worry about it. But I wouldn't
drop offcuts in the pond, and I wouldn't use suspect timber to make
any sort of pond-adjacent structure. If I do pond-pilings, I use larch
or chestnut, and I wouldn't even be too sure about the larch if it
were a koi pond.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:52:55 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come spring. So
>I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But bringing it
>home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I imagine
>any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
Probably a combination of glue and formaldehyde smell.
Loverly, wot?
--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any man-made material will have some out-gassing. Wrap it in plastic,
> or perhaps better yet, cover it with Styrofoam sheets. I have
> goldfish and they over winter fine without any covers, although the
> pond does not freeze solid. Another option is using a pond heater.
>
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:52:55 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I'm building a cover for my pond, so I don't have fishsicles come spring.
So
> >I bought some exterior Chipboard to wrap my insulated cover. But bringing
it
> >home in the van, the stink was overpowering. WTH is in this stuff? I
imagine
> >any runoff from this stuff would kill the fish.
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >
Actually I bought the OSB to cover the Styrofoam. :)
I had some bird netting on to keep out the leaves, but the neighbour has a
honey locust and the damn small leaves pass right through. So I made a 2x4
frame, strapped it every three feet and covered it with door screen. I plan
to use the same frame for my winter cover, by stuffing it with Styrofoam and
covering it up with NOT OSB.
I'm in Zone 5 and the water in my puddle is only 2' deep, so it could freeze
pretty deep. I plan to use a small heater to keep the bottom of the pond
around 40F (hibernation temps). But without the cover the heating bill would
be a killer.