It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like something
like this:
https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1.jpg
I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, but I don't
know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and crosscut),
but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to milled to
my specs.
I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their typical
minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cut list
before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, everything is
milled to order.
I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
the material.
Thanks!
On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:17:07 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
=20
> I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this=20
> bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing=20
> the material.
>=20
> Thanks!
Here, there seems to have always been old sheds, barns, houses that "needed=
" demolishing. Long ago, I would go around and ask the owners about their=
(abandoned) structures and about 1 in 10 would give me the building.
Later on, I discovered the city would have a list of houses to be demolishe=
d. I salvaged a few of those, also.
Doing that sort of demolishing/gathering, yourself, may not be an option fo=
r you. I don't search that way, any more, these days. If you're not prep=
ared to salvage a building from the city, ask their Code office who/what co=
ntractor has the contract to demolish a structure, then ask the contractor =
about obtaining some lumber... as they are doing the demolishing. You can=
usually select what you need, rather than buying a bulk load. Sometimes,=
these contrators don't salvage any lumber, i.e., their job is to demolish =
the building, not salvage it.
Check your local Craigslistings ("Material" category) for someone having sa=
lvaged lumber. Also, rather than running through a category, do the searc=
h option, using different wordings (for specifics, like salvaged lumber, ma=
ybe?).
One thing to consider when buying salvaged lumber, especially siding and th=
e like: If it has old paint, it likely contains lead, so factor in any lea=
d based paint removal in your (lesser) cost for purchasing it.
Also, consider any evidence of termite, powder post beetle, or other bug in=
festation. You can spray/fumigate or cut away any bug damage, but that's =
your time/cost, so (negotiate) deduct any of those potential cost related i=
ssues in your purchasing.
As for as that supplier you've contacted, $1K might buy more lumber than yo=
u need. Do you have a buddy than might need some, also? Share the cost =
of the bulk buy.
As for as not having a planer or jointer, is there a local cabinet or other=
firm, that might/can/would do the job. For my walnut table, a local firm=
planed my wide boards (charged $30, but I gave him $50 because he hit a na=
il) and another guy jointed/surfaced, then planed, other boards ($40). For=
the recent cypress table, a local guy ripped/jointed one edge (table top b=
oards), straight, for me ($40).
When using salvaged lumber, sometimes all your mill work (edges, surfaces) =
don't have to be perfect.... it's salvaged lumber, so maintaining that "sal=
vage defect" is not out of character of/for the whole project. Isn't that =
why you might be using salvaged lumber, in the first place? Just make sur=
e your "important" joints are solid/secure, to compensate for other (possib=
le) "deficiencies", elsewhere. Make sure certain edges and surfaces (and/o=
r jointery) are perfect, not necessarily all of edges and surfaces. Hand s=
anding a wavy/unflat surface smooth (enough), of salvaged lumber, to me, is=
sometimes a better look/result, than planing the surface perfectly flat...=
. or both sides coplanor. Allow the boards dictate some of the design/aes=
thetics, that way, and work with it, not against it.....
*You get me started on salvage lumber, etal., and I don't know when to stop=
!
Sonny
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 6:20:57 AM UTC-5, Dr. Deb wrote:
> Having no idea what your capabilities are, why do you need someone to do =
a special setup? No more material than is in that bed, assuming you can fi=
nd your source of stock (depending on where you live, CL is an excellent so=
urce),cutting it to size and planing it down should be very straight forwar=
d. A lot of planing(machine and hand) but nothing too extreme.
Exactly! That "setup cost" jargon, to me, is bogus, for what basic-boards=
you need. Ask him if you can bring your circular saw, for cutting, to re=
lative length, the items you need.... that's about all the setup required. =
For salvaged lumber, not all of your shop's (subsequent/further milling) =
work has to be perfect, for your (rustic-like?, assembly requirements?) pro=
ject.
Other than supplying you with lumber, is his idea for setup to include maki=
ng your required(?) mortise & tenons cuts, other jointery/specialty cuts, i=
.e., complete prep for assembly, etc., etc.?
If his shop's basic setup, in all departments, is not already in working or=
der, then that may not be the company you should be doing business with.
Sonny
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:22:46 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 6:20:57 AM UTC-5, Dr. Deb wrote:
>=20
> > Having no idea what your capabilities are, why do you need someone to d=
o a special setup? No more material than is in that bed, assuming you can =
find your source of stock (depending on where you live, CL is an excellent =
source),cutting it to size and planing it down should be very straight forw=
ard. A lot of planing(machine and hand) but nothing too extreme.
>=20
> Exactly! That "setup cost" jargon, to me, is bogus, for what basic-boar=
ds you need. Ask him if you can bring your circular saw, for cutting, to =
relative length, the items you need.... that's about all the setup required=
. For salvaged lumber, not all of your shop's (subsequent/further milling=
) work has to be perfect, for your (rustic-like?, assembly requirements?) p=
roject.
>=20
Unless the purchased boards are already completely prepared (in finished co=
ndition) to be worked on, in your shop....
Buy your basic boards, first. Don't worry about or consider any further or=
refined cutting or milling, at the place of purchase. In your shop, clean=
up the boards, do some basic cutting or trimming, if need be. =20
Do a rough assembly or layout of/for panels, and the like. With a rough a=
ssembly, then you decide what all needs further refined cutting, planing, j=
ointing, etc.... like I have done, here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/4383=
6144@N04/24589733643/in/photostream
Do some initial cutting-to-basic-length and fitting to size, etc.
Once some idea of what all needs to be planed, jointed, etc., and why, then=
bring the prepped boards to that guy (or someone else) for further finishe=
d planing, jointing.
It may not be practical to do any planing or jointing, at the place of purc=
hase, before you have the bed's construction plans to guide you, with the a=
ctual boards to be used. Example: Your preliminary bed plans may call fo=
r, say, 6" wide panel boards, but after the seller joints the boards, they =
may end up 5.75" wide. Does that idea, that consideration, make sense?
Sonny
"Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Let me add one note to what Sonny wrote: I've had good luck getting
> barn wood from ads on CL. For a couple of my projects, I used my
> jointer and lunchbox planer to prepare stock for glue up into panels
> then took the panels to one of my local sources to run through their
> wide belt sander. Interesting that the closest of my two local
> sources, a retail lumber yard, wouldn't touch reclaimed wood for fear
> of hitting a nail. The other guy didn't care.
>
> Larry
>
Speaking of hitting nails... A metal detector will help you find them. It
won't find all of them, you'll have to look closely to see if there are any
small particles from broken fasteners. (Staples and the like.) I got
about 98% of the nails in some reclaimed model railroad benchwork, and made
sure to keep an eye on the surface as each pass came out of the planer.
Puckdropper
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 3:47:26 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> I have no knowledge of what they're reclaiming; OP has steadfastly=20
> refused to say. But there are a million ways to reclaim timber besides=
=20
> construction lumber which seems to be all you're thinking it is--
>I'd wager that is a _tiny_ fraction of the business'es form, if any.
>=20
=20
Derby needs to find another supplier. He states the miller doesn't stock b=
oards, so, yeah, that shot my argument full of holes.
Maybe post on Craigslist and the like, for what stock you need and the plan=
ing/jointing services. I'd bet you'd get better offers, than that reclaime=
r/miller.
Or.....
How many replies might you receive, to satisfy your order, if you posted (o=
n Craigslist?) an offer of $500 - $1K, for the 72 bd ft of planed & jointed=
lumber you need? I'd bet lots!
Not a very complete lumber reclaiming business, IMO. Must be a log and/or=
beam reclaimer, only. Still, it doesn't take much to set up the bandsaw =
(mill?) to cut ~~72 bd ft of lumber. The saw(s) should already be ready t=
o cut. Additionally, if he cuts the beams/logs without hitting nails and =
such, he shouldn't have any worries about the planing/jointing, which shoul=
d already be setup, also. *His lumber fees should already include that ris=
k of hitting nails, etc., if his services are limited to what's described.
The millers "setup" statement is questionable, IMO, for this senario, in th=
at it's like an open end contract, to be generously revised, at his descret=
ion and to his advantage, especailly with a customer who may be unknowing.
Sonny
On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 06:17:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like something
>like this:
>
>https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1.jpg
>
>I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, but I don't
>know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and crosscut),
>but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to milled to
>my specs.
>
>I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their typical
>minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cut list
>before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, everything is
>milled to order.
>
>I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
>bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
>the material.
>
>Thanks!
Habitat For Humanity operates Re-Store outlets.
I have about 5 within an hours drive. They differ somewhat
in what they have in stock ; and it's always changing -
hit & miss - but you might find some interesting materials.
I've recently learned that they advertise on Kijiji
http://www.kijiji.ca/b-ontario/habitat-restore/k0l9004
John T.
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 7:20:57 AM UTC-4, Dr. Deb wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:01:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 5:08:41 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
> > > On 6/2/2016 9:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > > > It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like some=
thing
> > > > like this:
> > > >
> > > > https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1=
.jpg
> > > >
> > > > I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, b=
ut I don't
> > > > know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and cro=
sscut),
> > > > but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to mil=
led to
> > > > my specs.
> > > >
> > > > I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their t=
ypical
> > > > minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cu=
t list
> > > > before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, every=
thing is
> > > > milled to order.
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building t=
his
> > > > bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
> > > > the material.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > First question: Where are you?
> > >=20
> > > In NYC there's a place called "M. Fine Lumber" that has an acre or tw=
o=20
> > > of piles of old structural lumber. I went in there once and they told=
me=20
> > > they could give it to you pretty much however you want. Rough, planed=
=20
> > > all four sides, ripped, etc. And they apparently get all sorts of ord=
ers=20
> > > that essentially add up to a thick coffee table top.
> >=20
> > That is basically what the place I called told me. They can give it to =
me pretty much
> > however I want it, all I have to do is pay them. The problem is that th=
e set-up costs=20
> > for such a small order is what jacks up the price.
>=20
> Having no idea what your capabilities are, why do you need someone to do =
a special setup? =20
No more material than is in that bed, assuming you can find your source of =
stock (depending on where you live, CL is an excellent source),cutting it t=
o size and planing it down should be very straight forward. A lot of plani=
ng(machine and hand) but nothing too extreme.
It's not a matter of capabilities, it's a matter of equipment.
If you read my original post, the reason I need someone to do a special set=
up
will become apparent.
On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:37:07 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> Doing that sort of demolishing/gathering, yourself, may not be an option =
for you. I don't search that way, any more, these days. If you're not pr=
epared to salvage a building from the city, ask their Code office who/what =
contractor has the contract to demolish a structure, then ask the contracto=
r about obtaining some lumber... as they are doing the demolishing. You c=
an usually select what you need, rather than buying a bulk load. ....=20
> Sometimes, these contrators don't salvage any lumber, i.e., their job is =
to demolish the building, not salvage it.
>=20
If you run into a contractor who doesn't salvage the lumber, they likely wi=
ll give you (free) what you can haul off. They won't have to pay for that=
quantity of/for landfill fee.
Sonny
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 1:11:18 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> On 06/03/2016 12:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
> ...
>=20
> > Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay =
for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
>=20
> But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed=20
> from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
>=20
> You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the=20
> product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.
>=20
Why would the lumber be in another "form"? What do you mean by "form"?
My perspective is, if the company is in the reclaimed lumber business, they=
should have an assortment of reclaimed boards already in stock, ready to s=
ell, at a set rate.... The boards having been shelved/stocked in their ori=
ginal salvaged condition. I would assume they should have a variety of 1" t=
hick boards of varing widths and lengths,.... same with 2", 3" etc. thick s=
tock. They should have a variety of beams (sizes), also, and all one need=
s, to do, is go select what size they need.
I am not thinking the company has, say, 12" X 12" X 10' beams, only, and th=
e beams need to be resawn into boards, as per a customer's cut list specs. =
If this is the case, then one needs to, possibly, find another reclaimed-l=
umber source.
The only thing OP needs done, as for as I understand, is the lumber needs t=
o be additionally planed and/or jointed. Each piece of purchased lumber sh=
ould already be in the basic "form" (its original salvaged condition, not r=
esawn), for building the bed.
Otherwise, I'm just understanding the whole senario.
Sonny
On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 5:08:41 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 6/2/2016 9:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like something
> > like this:
> >
> > https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1.jpg
> >
> > I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, but I don't
> > know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and crosscut),
> > but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to milled to
> > my specs.
> >
> > I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their typical
> > minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cut list
> > before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, everything is
> > milled to order.
> >
> > I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
> > bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
> > the material.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> First question: Where are you?
>
> In NYC there's a place called "M. Fine Lumber" that has an acre or two
> of piles of old structural lumber. I went in there once and they told me
> they could give it to you pretty much however you want. Rough, planed
> all four sides, ripped, etc. And they apparently get all sorts of orders
> that essentially add up to a thick coffee table top.
That is basically what the place I called told me. They can give it to me pretty much
however I want it, all I have to do is pay them. The problem is that the set-up costs
for such a small order is what jacks up the price.
On 6/3/2016 1:24 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 06/03/2016 11:40 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
>> If you read my original post, the reason I need someone to do a
>> special setup
>> will become apparent.
>
> I'm still curious, though, as to what the "reclaimed material" really
> is...do you know, do you have a choice from multiple sources, ...
> <inquiring minds and all that... :) >
>
> --
>
>
>
Reclaimed material...... Water and minerals sucked up from the ground by
a growing tree. The reclaiming process is when the tree is taken down,
cut up, and the the wood is reclaimed. ;~)
On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:01:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 5:08:41 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
> > On 6/2/2016 9:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > > It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like someth=
ing
> > > like this:
> > >
> > > https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1.j=
pg
> > >
> > > I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, but=
I don't
> > > know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and cross=
cut),
> > > but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to mille=
d to
> > > my specs.
> > >
> > > I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their typ=
ical
> > > minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cut =
list
> > > before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, everyth=
ing is
> > > milled to order.
> > >
> > > I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building thi=
s
> > > bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
> > > the material.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > First question: Where are you?
> >=20
> > In NYC there's a place called "M. Fine Lumber" that has an acre or two=
=20
> > of piles of old structural lumber. I went in there once and they told m=
e=20
> > they could give it to you pretty much however you want. Rough, planed=
=20
> > all four sides, ripped, etc. And they apparently get all sorts of order=
s=20
> > that essentially add up to a thick coffee table top.
>=20
> That is basically what the place I called told me. They can give it to me=
pretty much
> however I want it, all I have to do is pay them. The problem is that the =
set-up costs=20
> for such a small order is what jacks up the price.
Having no idea what your capabilities are, why do you need someone to do a =
special setup? No more material than is in that bed, assuming you can find=
your source of stock (depending on where you live, CL is an excellent sour=
ce),cutting it to size and planing it down should be very straight forward.=
A lot of planing(machine and hand) but nothing too extreme.
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 10:14:49 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 3:47:26 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>=20
> > I have no knowledge of what they're reclaiming; OP has steadfastly=20
> > refused to say. But there are a million ways to reclaim timber besides=
=20
> > construction lumber which seems to be all you're thinking it is--
> >I'd wager that is a _tiny_ fraction of the business'es form, if any.
> >=20
> =20
> Derby needs to find another supplier. He states the miller doesn't stock=
boards, so, yeah, that shot my argument full of holes.
>=20
> Maybe post on Craigslist and the like, for what stock you need and the pl=
aning/jointing services. I'd bet you'd get better offers, than that reclai=
mer/miller.
>=20
> Or.....
>=20
> How many replies might you receive, to satisfy your order, if you posted =
(on Craigslist?) an offer of $500 - $1K, for the 72 bd ft of planed & joint=
ed lumber you need? I'd bet lots!
>=20
> Not a very complete lumber reclaiming business, IMO. Must be a log and/=
or beam reclaimer, only. Still, it doesn't take much to set up the bandsa=
w (mill?) to cut ~~72 bd ft of lumber. The saw(s) should already be ready=
to cut. Additionally, if he cuts the beams/logs without hitting nails an=
d such, he shouldn't have any worries about the planing/jointing, which sho=
uld already be setup, also. *His lumber fees should already include that r=
isk of hitting nails, etc., if his services are limited to what's described=
.
>=20
> The millers "setup" statement is questionable, IMO, for this senario, in =
that it's like an open end contract, to be generously revised, at his descr=
etion and to his advantage, especailly with a customer who may be unknowing=
.
>=20
> Sonny
I'm not quite sure why you find this all so strange. If I go to a lumber ya=
rd
for S4S material, I am going to pay for the milling in the cost of the=20
lumber. If I go to a place that sells reclaimed lumber and ask them to make=
it
S4S, I am going to pay for the material and then pay for the milling servic=
es.
The difference (IMO)is that the lumber yard has thousands of board feet of
every size imaginable (more or less) that somebody milled for them, while t=
he
reclaimed lumber place is going to have to set up to mill a few pieces of 5=
/4 x=20
6 in lengths that will work for the frame, then set up to mill some 1 x 4 f=
or=20
the headboard, some other size for the legs, etc. That's why he requested a=
cut=20
list so that he would know what I needed.=20
It sounds like his typical business is large scale orders, maybe like what=
=20
would be needed for a post and beam house (more on that later) - some rough=
=20
stuff, some S4S for casing, etc. Now, if it so happens that he already has =
a=20
large order for 5/4 x 6 S4S, then running a few extra board feet for me wou=
ld
result in minimal (if any) set up charges, but obviously there would be som=
e=20
milling charges. However, if I just need a few board feet of some specific =
size
within the next few days, and he has no other orders for that size, then I =
am=20
going to pay something extra for the set-up. True, this might not be the pl=
ace=20
for me since they don't usually deal in "bed frame sized orders" but all it=
=20
will take is a cut list to get an actual quote. I'm not sure why you say "i=
t's=20
like an open end contract" since I'll give him a cut list, he'll give me a=
=20
quote and we'll agree to do business or not.
Here's a perfect example:
I found a CL posting for a person in my area that had a post and beam house=
=20
built with reclaimed Douglas fir. The company he worked with built the actu=
al=20
structure and he did all of the interior and exterior trim work. He supplie=
d a=20
cut list for his part of the job and they milled the material as part of th=
e=20
overall project. He now has some wood left over. He has about 70 BF of 5/4 =
x=20
4.5" (actual size) S4S that was supposed to be used for casing, but it was=
=20
supposed to be 5" (actual size). The company cut it wrong. He made them an=
=20
offer and he bought it for a really good price, while they fulfilled his=20
original order at the original price. He changed his mind about his plans f=
or=20
the 4.5" wood and now he is selling it. He also has a lot of rough-sawn dou=
g=20
fir from the same place that he bought to use as exterior trim. As one woul=
d=20
expect, he paid more for the S4S lumber than he did for the rough-sawn=20
material, since there was milling involved.
Here is the material he is selling. If I went to a place that sells reclaim=
ed=20
lumber, I would expect to pay more for a small order of something that look=
s=20
like this:
http://tinyurl.com/S4S-doug-fir
Than the same size order of something that looks like this:
http://tinyurl.com/rough-sawn-doug-fir
OK, so back to my project. Unfortunately, the long boards of 4.5" S4S mater=
ial=20
is not wide enough for my liking, but it turns out he has enough of the=20
rough-sawn material in the 6"+ widths that I need for the bedframe. It also=
=20
turns out that my neighbor would be more than willing to plane and joint th=
e=20
material to my specifications, probably for no charge, but I'll certainly o=
ffer=20
him something. So I may end up buying a lot of the S4S material for the=20
headboards and other parts of the bed, and the wider pieces of the rough-sa=
wn=20
material for the frame itself. However, the key point here is that I found=
=20
someone who is willing to mill the rough-sawn material for (probably) nothi=
ng.=20
If I had to pay a commercial place to mill such a small order it *might* co=
st=20
more than I want to pay.
On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 7:52:19 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> >
> > Derby needs to find another supplier. He states the miller doesn't
> > stock boards, so, yeah, that shot my argument full of holes.
>=20
> So why were you arguing with me about what you didn't know?
>=20
> You were thinking only of what I'd call primarily a salvage operation,=20
> not reclaiming...
>=20
Well, hells bells! Since when are the terms salvaging and reclaiming so v=
ery different, no matter what is being recycled? I simply use the term sal=
vaging, rather than reclaiming, when it comes to this kind of lumber from a=
ny source.... and when it comes to any other product that is reuseable.
Derby asked us about pros and cons of reclaimed lumber, sourcing, etc., ...=
. from those with some knowledge. For any supplier to give even a rough q=
uote, he would need some semblance of a cut list. My only oversight was, =
THAT particular supplier didn't have boards in stock.
I don't recall my frame of mind, initially, for that oversight, but my know=
ledge and experience, as per the product and suppliers, was that most salva=
gers/reclaimers have an assortment of all kinds of lumber readily available=
, and I responded with that in mind.
There are several salvaging/reclaiming outfits, around here, that deal with=
slavaging/reclaiming from, not only salvaging buildings, but sinkers, stor=
m-felled, tree trimming/removing, etc.: Palmetto, Krotz Springs, Port Barr=
e, Maringouin, Ponchatoula (is a huge outfit). I have either inquired and=
/or bought from them all of them, so this experience is the perspective fro=
m which I was thinking, when giving advice, suggestions and/or recommendati=
ons. They all have a large assortment of lumber available, and yes, they =
do/will cut to specs, as well. I have never been quoted for an additional=
setup fee for simply cutting logs into boards.... they are already setup t=
o do 'most anything with lumber, logging, etc.
With my experience, Derby's contacted-supplier operation seemed out of the =
ordinary, to me. However, since he only cuts (I assume) logs and beams int=
o boards, he should already be setup to do any cutting. Once the boards a=
re cut, I would assume he is already setup to do any planing and jointing.
The only additional (special?) setups I can think of, for anything, is 1) m=
illing of profiles and the like. 2) I may be behind the times, so maybe so=
me sort of computerized setup, for simply cutting/planing/jointing boards, =
may be what is being used by that supplier. Still, I would think that oper=
ation would already be factored into any quote. 3) Since the outfit does v=
olume work, the feeding of lumber is done automatically, and not by a perso=
n feeding one board at a time. As for as cutting the log/beam into boards,=
he can only cut one log/beam at a time, even for volume orders. Is there =
a setup fee for each log/beam?
But if the miller has a separate setup fee, then, to me, it would seem ther=
e would be another aspect, of the total cost, that is lower.
The only additional fee I have ever paid, and I was informed of this prior =
to cutting, is if a nail was hit, during the cut of a log I supplied, then =
I would either pay for sharpening or buy the blade. For logs not supplied=
by me, i.e., supplied by the miller, then any nails hit are his liability.=
Even the small salvaging/reclaiming outfit I've most often used, in Lake =
Arthur, has no setup fee. He's already setup.
Derby states:=20
I'm not quite sure why you find this all so strange. If I go to a lumber ya=
rd=20
for S4S material, I am going to pay for the milling in the cost of the=20
lumber. If I go to a place that sells reclaimed lumber and ask them to make=
it=20
S4S, I am going to pay for the material and then pay for the milling servic=
es.=20
Why, sure he's gonna pay for the cutting, planing and jointing. Those oper=
ations are already factored into the "cost of the S4S lumber he requested".=
I have never heard of an additional setup fee, for any similar(?) senario=
I've had or for anyone else. (*We were asked for advice, suggestions, pro=
s & cons, etc., based on our experience.) Any service should already be fa=
ctored in to the quote. What is it about those tools that need to be setup=
, to warrant a setup fee beyond what I think would be normal? Or is it the=
personnel, who'll perform the operations, that need to be setup? Why woul=
d the miller not automatically (no additional fee involved) accommodate thi=
s small order of X-variety lumber, while accommodating a larger order of Y-=
variety lumber? Is the setup the act of going fetch the log from the pile =
of logs to be cut? The miller has a minimum order size. To me, order si=
ze has nothing to do with "setup", whatever that is.
Derby says:
Here is the material he is selling. If I went to a place that sells reclaim=
ed=20
lumber, I would expect to pay more for a small order of something that look=
s=20
like this:=20
http://tinyurl.com/S4S-doug-fir=20
Than the same size order of something that looks like this:=20
http://tinyurl.com/rough-sawn-doug-fir=20
Well, yes. You'll pay for the rough lumber, say $50, total. If you have =
it planed, you'll pay, say, $75 (@ $0.25 per bd ft), total. Doesn't this $=
75 fee include the cost of "setting up" the saw and planer.... or are you g=
onna pay an additional $20 for the setups. All millers I know have a set f=
ee, only, of about $0.25 per bd ft, for planing & jointing.... and a set fe=
e (hourly rate/other - about $60/hr) for milling logs. As for as my experi=
ence, there's no such thing as, and/or I have never heard of, an individual=
setup fee for each these operations, no matter what the order size or what=
the type of wood. To me, that aspect, of Derby's obtaining the lumber he =
wants, makes for an unwarranted higher cost he would, otherwise, normally p=
ay.... unless some other aspect of the total cost is reduced.i.e., maybe he=
charges $0.20 for planing or jointing.
You stated earlier:
You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the=20
product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.=20
Right. Buying the lumber, itself, and, additionally, the cost to have it p=
laned and jointed. The cost of the lumber, itself, includes the cutting it=
off the log/beam, is my experience, unless I supply the log, then I only p=
ay for the cutting, again, about $0.25 bd ft. In my experience, the cost f=
or each the planing and jointing operations is about $0.25/bd ft, which inc=
ludes "the setup" of the machines, which is already setup, always in its/th=
e ready-to-work position. It's already setup, no matter what the lumber o=
r how much!
So, why was I arguing with you? I didn't percieve it as arguing, though I =
used the word argument. My first thoughts was about boards in stock, the s=
econd about setup fee(s). I was trying to explain my point of view and und=
erstanding of, relative to, Derby's senario. Tell me, what is it, that's t=
o be set up, to get his boards cut and planed/jointed, to warrant an/any ad=
ditional setup fee(s)? I am simply not understanding what is to be "set up=
" and why there would be a charge for it (a charge for something that, seem=
ingly, doesn't exist.). Cutting, planing and jointing are not special oper=
ations, requiring special setups. Hence, to me, a proposed setup fee is (=
possibly) questionable for someone (as Derby?) not knowing. Knowing that =
cutting, planing and jointing are not "special" operations, one shouldn't n=
ecessarily believe, be convinced, they require special setups and fees for =
such.
It doesn't matter if the miller did have boards in stock, or has to cut som=
e. They need to be planed and jointed. To me, that's not a special opera=
tion, warranting an additional special(?) setup(?) fee.
Within reasonable driving distance, here, there are a number of salvaging/r=
eclaiming outfits. I assume there are a number in Derby's area. I recomme=
nded he might look for another supplier.
Sonny
Wonderful wood can be found. However it is hard as a rock on much
of it. See what you get. Drilling is best anyway...
Martin
On 6/2/2016 9:43 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 06/02/2016 8:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
>> I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
>> bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
>> the material.
>
> What are they "reclaiming" and do you care what species it is you use?
>
> Depending upon the source for their material, what you get _may_ be far
> nicer stock than just run-of-the-mill newly cut timber, but then again,
> maybe not...
>
> I reclaim/repurpose a lot of old construction SYP around the farm here,
> most of which is roughly 100 yr old now and it generally is much finer
> old growth grain as opposed to current commercially-grown tree-farm
> construction lumber.
>
> If you go exotic like they're reclaiming old chestnut logs or the like,
> then it's basically the only source but you'll be investing a lot of
> cash...
>
> --
>
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 10:44:11 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
=20
> Nonsense. Whatever the material, there's some labor and effort required=
=20
> to process an order; this isn't charity, the shop is fully justified=20
> (and actually requires) in making whatever charges are needed to pay=20
> their expenses beyond simply the material. On a per job basis, it's=20
> undoubtedly more expensive for smaller work.
>=20
> We have no klew from what OP's said what it is they're salvaging=20
> here...I asked, got no response; haven't seen it mentioned by OP at all=
=20
> just what it is he's getting...or if he knows.
>=20
I DO think we think alike!! However....
Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay for =
the lumber and any taxes, only. All the services, up to that point, is al=
ready factored into the cost. It doesn't matter what kind of lumber is bei=
ng bought.
Beyond that, if I want additional milling to be done, there is usually a se=
t rate for the kind of additional work, type of work. I'd pay the rate plu=
s taxes. There is no additional itemized fees, beyond that, to cover setu=
p.... it's already factored into the planing and jointing rate.
The company's planer (tool) and jointer (tool) should already be ready to d=
o the work... just set each's depth of cut, align the lumber, flip the swit=
ch and it gets planed/jointed.
So what the heck is the guy setting up, as for as planing and/or jointing?
The only "anomaly", in "factoring", is a small amount of lumber vs a large =
amount. *72 bd ft lumber @ $8(?) bd ft, plus $0.25 bd ft jointing & plani=
ng =3D ~~ $600. Buy the boards and have them planed & jointed by someone =
else.
dbp, we both may be right, but also a bit wrong....
??? I suspect, maybe, the miller's thinking, re: setup, is along the lines =
of making molding type or other profile cuts, hence special/additional setu=
ps are required for/with the different cutters'/shapers' heads and machines=
.
* I suspect Derby's cut list (being limited to planing and jointing?) would=
help the miller revise(?) the quote for the work.
Sonny
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 2:24:45 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 06/03/2016 11:40 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
> > If you read my original post, the reason I need someone to do a special setup
> > will become apparent.
>
> I'm still curious, though, as to what the "reclaimed material" really
> is...do you know, do you have a choice from multiple sources, ...
> <inquiring minds and all that... :) >
>
> --
At this point I do not know what type of wood I would purchase. I haven't
been to the lumber yard yet. However, the point I am trying to make is that
if the wood needs to be planed or jointed, I can not do that.
The place I called said they do not stock any S4S reclaimed material.
Everything starts as rough, you tell them what you need, they mill the
material to your specs.
Let me add one note to what Sonny wrote: I've had good luck getting barn wo=
od from ads on CL. For a couple of my projects, I used my jointer and lunc=
hbox planer to prepare stock for glue up into panels then took the panels t=
o one of my local sources to run through their wide belt sander. Interesti=
ng that the closest of my two local sources, a retail lumber yard, wouldn't=
touch reclaimed wood for fear of hitting a nail. The other guy didn't car=
e.
Larry
> Here, there seems to have always been old sheds, barns, houses that "need=
ed" demolishing. Long ago, I would go around and ask the owners about the=
ir (abandoned) structures and about 1 in 10 would give me the building.
>=20
> Later on, I discovered the city would have a list of houses to be demolis=
hed. I salvaged a few of those, also.
>=20
> Doing that sort of demolishing/gathering, yourself, may not be an option =
for you. I don't search that way, any more, these days. If you're not pr=
epared to salvage a building from the city, ask their Code office who/what =
contractor has the contract to demolish a structure, then ask the contracto=
r about obtaining some lumber... as they are doing the demolishing. You c=
an usually select what you need, rather than buying a bulk load. Sometime=
s, these contrators don't salvage any lumber, i.e., their job is to demolis=
h the building, not salvage it.
>=20
> Check your local Craigslistings ("Material" category) for someone having =
salvaged lumber. Also, rather than running through a category, do the sea=
rch option, using different wordings (for specifics, like salvaged lumber, =
maybe?).
>=20
> One thing to consider when buying salvaged lumber, especially siding and =
the like: If it has old paint, it likely contains lead, so factor in any l=
ead based paint removal in your (lesser) cost for purchasing it.
>=20
> Also, consider any evidence of termite, powder post beetle, or other bug =
infestation. You can spray/fumigate or cut away any bug damage, but that'=
s your time/cost, so (negotiate) deduct any of those potential cost related=
issues in your purchasing.
>=20
> As for as that supplier you've contacted, $1K might buy more lumber than =
you need. Do you have a buddy than might need some, also? Share the cos=
t of the bulk buy.
>=20
> As for as not having a planer or jointer, is there a local cabinet or oth=
er firm, that might/can/would do the job. For my walnut table, a local fi=
rm planed my wide boards (charged $30, but I gave him $50 because he hit a =
nail) and another guy jointed/surfaced, then planed, other boards ($40). F=
or the recent cypress table, a local guy ripped/jointed one edge (table top=
boards), straight, for me ($40).
>=20
> When using salvaged lumber, sometimes all your mill work (edges, surfaces=
) don't have to be perfect.... it's salvaged lumber, so maintaining that "s=
alvage defect" is not out of character of/for the whole project. Isn't tha=
t why you might be using salvaged lumber, in the first place? Just make s=
ure your "important" joints are solid/secure, to compensate for other (poss=
ible) "deficiencies", elsewhere. Make sure certain edges and surfaces (and=
/or jointery) are perfect, not necessarily all of edges and surfaces. Hand=
sanding a wavy/unflat surface smooth (enough), of salvaged lumber, to me, =
is sometimes a better look/result, than planing the surface perfectly flat.=
... or both sides coplanor. Allow the boards dictate some of the design/a=
esthetics, that way, and work with it, not against it.....
>=20
> *You get me started on salvage lumber, etal., and I don't know when to st=
op!
>=20
> Sonny
dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>On 06/03/2016 12:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
>...
>
>> Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
>
>But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed
>from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
And I'd be real hesitant about running reclaimed stock through my
nice sharp jointer or planer.
My prettiest boxes, on the other hand, come from some reclaimed
old-growth douglas fir.... Just needed to check carefully for metal
fragments/nails then fill the nail holes with tinted epoxy.
On 06/02/2016 8:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
> I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
> bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
> the material.
What are they "reclaiming" and do you care what species it is you use?
Depending upon the source for their material, what you get _may_ be far
nicer stock than just run-of-the-mill newly cut timber, but then again,
maybe not...
I reclaim/repurpose a lot of old construction SYP around the farm here,
most of which is roughly 100 yr old now and it generally is much finer
old growth grain as opposed to current commercially-grown tree-farm
construction lumber.
If you go exotic like they're reclaiming old chestnut logs or the like,
then it's basically the only source but you'll be investing a lot of cash...
--
On 6/2/2016 9:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like something
> like this:
>
> https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1.jpg
>
> I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, but I don't
> know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and crosscut),
> but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to milled to
> my specs.
>
> I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their typical
> minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cut list
> before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, everything is
> milled to order.
>
> I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
> bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
> the material.
>
> Thanks!
>
First question: Where are you?
In NYC there's a place called "M. Fine Lumber" that has an acre or two
of piles of old structural lumber. I went in there once and they told me
they could give it to you pretty much however you want. Rough, planed
all four sides, ripped, etc. And they apparently get all sorts of orders
that essentially add up to a thick coffee table top.
On 6/3/2016 12:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 5:08:41 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 6/2/2016 9:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> It's time to build another bed. My (adult) daughter would like something
>>> like this:
>>>
>>> https://img0.etsystatic.com/052/0/9004699/il_340x270.711920270_c0a1.jpg
>>>
>>> I think it would be really cool to make it out of reclaimed wood, but I don't
>>> know anything about obtaining it. I can cut it to size (rip and crosscut),
>>> but I don't have a planer or jointer, so the wood would need to milled to
>>> my specs.
>>>
>>> I called a local reclaimed wood supplier and they said that their typical
>>> minimum is $1000, but they might go lower. Obviously they need a cut list
>>> before they can give me a quote. They don't stock any boards, everything is
>>> milled to order.
>>>
>>> I'm looking to the experts here for the pros and cons of building this
>>> bed with reclaimed lumber and also for some suggestions on sourcing
>>> the material.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>> First question: Where are you?
>>
>> In NYC there's a place called "M. Fine Lumber" that has an acre or two
>> of piles of old structural lumber. I went in there once and they told me
>> they could give it to you pretty much however you want. Rough, planed
>> all four sides, ripped, etc. And they apparently get all sorts of orders
>> that essentially add up to a thick coffee table top.
>
> That is basically what the place I called told me. They can give it to me pretty much
> however I want it, all I have to do is pay them. The problem is that the set-up costs
> for such a small order is what jacks up the price.
>
I seem to remember being quoted $300 for enough wood for a sofa table
with a thick top, so their minimum cost was less than what you were
quoted. I'm curious though, if you were to have them plane all the stock
on four sides, would there be any point in getting reclaimed wood? I've
been wondering that for awhile. Isn't the "aging" confined to a pretty
thin layer?
On 06/03/2016 8:22 AM, Sonny wrote:
...
> Exactly! That "setup cost" jargon, to me, is bogus, for what
> basic-boards you need. Ask him if you can bring your circular saw, for
> cutting, to relative length, the items you need.... that's about all the
> setup required. ...
Nonsense. Whatever the material, there's some labor and effort required
to process an order; this isn't charity, the shop is fully justified
(and actually requires) in making whatever charges are needed to pay
their expenses beyond simply the material. On a per job basis, it's
undoubtedly more expensive for smaller work.
We have no klew from what OP's said what it is they're salvaging
here...I asked, got no response; haven't seen it mentioned by OP at all
just what it is he's getting...or if he knows.
--
On 06/03/2016 12:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
...
> Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed
from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the
product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.
--
On 06/03/2016 11:40 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
> If you read my original post, the reason I need someone to do a special setup
> will become apparent.
I'm still curious, though, as to what the "reclaimed material" really
is...do you know, do you have a choice from multiple sources, ...
<inquiring minds and all that... :) >
--
DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> Having no idea what your capabilities are, why do you need someone
>> to do a special setup?
> No more material than is in that bed, assuming you can find your
> source of stock (depending on where you live, CL is an excellent
> source),cutting it to size and planing it down should be very
> straight forward. A lot of planing(machine and hand) but nothing too
> extreme.
>
> It's not a matter of capabilities, it's a matter of equipment.
>
> If you read my original post, the reason I need someone to do a
> special setup will become apparent.
You said you could/would rip and crosscut. You also said "obviously they
would need a cut list before they can give me quote". If you are doing the
ripping/crosscutting all they need to know is how many board feet and the
thickness; I don't see any special setup, what were you thinking required
such?
On 06/03/2016 2:30 PM, Sonny wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 1:11:18 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>> On 06/03/2016 12:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
>>
>> But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed
>> from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
>>
>> You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the
>> product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.
>>
>
> Why would the lumber be in another "form"? What do you mean by "form"?
I have no knowledge of what they're reclaiming; OP has steadfastly
refused to say. But there are a million ways to reclaim timber besides
construction lumber which seems to be all you're thinking it is--I'd
wager that is a _tiny_ fraction of the business'es form, if any.
--
dpb wrote:
> On 06/03/2016 12:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
> ...
>
>> Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay
>> for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
>
> But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed
> from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
>
> You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the
> product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.
>
> --
>
Disagree. Absent the concern for nails and the likes in the wood - wood
is wood. It does not matter if it is lumber or millwork.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>>> Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
>>
>
>> But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed
>>from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
>> You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the
>> product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.
>
>
> Yep.
> .. and the extra set-up fees will differ - depending on the size
> of the material order - that seems obvious to me.
> ... on a $ 10,000.00 order you might find that they will do a little
> custom work for free and maybe deliver it - to make the sale ..
> .. not so on a $ 250. order - where it might double your cost.
> John T.
>
So what is the "setup fee"? The guy is going to plane or joint a piece
of wood. Ya gotta turn the knobs whether it is a rough cut board or a
reclaimed piece. Just what the hell is the set up?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 06/03/2016 9:14 PM, Sonny wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 3:47:26 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> I have no knowledge of what they're reclaiming; OP has steadfastly
>> refused to say. But there are a million ways to reclaim timber besides
>> construction lumber which seems to be all you're thinking it is--
>> I'd wager that is a _tiny_ fraction of the business'es form, if any.
>>
>
> Derby needs to find another supplier. He states the miller doesn't
> stock boards, so, yeah, that shot my argument full of holes.
So why were you arguing with me about what you didn't know?
You were thinking only of what I'd call primarily a salvage operation,
not reclaiming...
--
>
>> Exactly what am I missing? When I go buy any lumber, anywhere, I pay for the lumber and any taxes, only. ...
>
>But this isn't just "buying lumber", it's getting something reclaimed
>from another form and being put into the form requested by the customer.
>You are buying millwork as well as the material by definition of the
>product and its source. Every order is essentially custom work.
Yep.
.. and the extra set-up fees will differ - depending on the size
of the material order - that seems obvious to me.
... on a $ 10,000.00 order you might find that they will do a little
custom work for free and maybe deliver it - to make the sale ..
.. not so on a $ 250. order - where it might double your cost.
John T.