Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp Delta X5
series cabinet saws? Does anyone have good or bad experience with either?
I've only read good about Powermatic and motor problems with Delta, is this
true? Fine woodworking mag gave top scores to Delta. I'll be doing cabinet
work, remodelling house, furniture with this saw.
Interesting thread David. When in the US, my "ultimate" saw was (was) as
PM-66...until JET bought them and "JET-ized" many of the parts. I don't have
a problem with JET, in fact quite the opposite. I own a mess of JET tools
and have learned to appreciate them for the fine production tools they are.
Nope...the problem I have is today's PM66 is a gold JET Cabinet saw with a
few extra bells and whistles and a whole different price range.... Up here
in the great white north, I've now had a chance to have a look at some of
those "other" brands you name and find that in terms of quality, they are
now, where Jet/Grizzly was five years ago...you paid your $$ and you tooks
your chances. Big difference is up here, customer service seems to be on the
light side..
Nope...when (and I do mean when) the time is right, I believe a 350 will be
in my collection. 'Till then...if you happens to hear of a smokin; deal on a
west coast one, let me know :)
Rob
--
Remove CC for email and please visit our web site:
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am very opinionated on this and I am happy to debate anyone on this
topic
> as I am very secure in my point of view.
>
> Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
> there is only one to get, a General 350.
>
> I work at a very large machinery dealer in Canada, we sell Delta,
> Powermatic, General, General International as well as a few offshore
brands
> very few of you will have heard of. I don't get nearly the same level of
> complaints about General 350's as I do about Uni's.
>
> General is the only company who still controls *every* aspect of
manufacture
> of their equipment. Iron ore pulls up at the back door and finished
machines
> go out the front door. They are the only company who still uses Meehanite
> castings ( http://www.meehanite.com/ ), they are quite proud of this and
> have the certification plaque displayed quite prominently in the foundry.
> When Powermatic still owned a foundry, they were a Meehanite certified
> foundry. When Delta Canada still had a foundry (the Callander foundry in
> Guelph Ontario) it too was a Meehanite certified foundry. When I asked
what
> happened to the millings, if they went back into the furnace, I was told
> quite plainly "No", all materials in the furnace are virgin, offcuts could
> not be recycled. We were (our company) packing up from a trade show last
> year when a light rain caught a couple of our machines outside. The
> Taiwanese stuff rusted and pitted almost immediately, with the Canadian
made
> General equipment, all we had to do was wipe the water off, no marks on
the
> tables!
>
> When you operated the tilt and height wheels on a 350/650, there is *no*
> lash, I don't mean very little, I mean *no* lash. The saw comes assembled
in
> a crate, you have very little to do to fire up the saw when you get it
home.
> When the top is put on the saw, it is checked with a 4' strait edge, shims
> may have been put under the corners of the main table between the top of
the
> sheet metal cabinet and the cast top to ensure it is flat (the flange at
the
> top of the sheet metal cabinets are not faced, this is the only way to
> ensure every table top is flat, who else shims the tops?). The trunions
are
> much beefier than either a 66 or a Uni. The motor is an off the shelf
mount
> Baldor. The mitre slot measures out at 0.0750" and the mitre gauge bar is
> 0.0749" (yes, I have measured them with a digital micrometer). There is no
> side to side play between the mitre bar and the slot, the mitre bar is a
> piece of milled steel, not a piece of off the shelf bar stock. The mitre
> gauge head is cast iron, not pot metal or aluminium.
>
> I was very disappointed the first time I saw a 66, it has a unique drive
> pulley, double bearing, arbour arrangement, rather than the usual bearing,
> drive pulley, bearing, arbour face arrangement like a General or a Delta
> Uni. While I know the 66 is a good saw, it would seem better to support
the
> drive pulley on both sides with a bearing rather than just on the inboard
> side.
>
> I visited the foundry and machine shop in Drummonville Quebec last year
and
> I was totally impressed. It is a strange mixture of new and old. CNC
> machines spitting gears all day long, but the final assembly and fitting
of
> the each saw is still done by hand. The assembly line consists of three
> stations with four or five guys. The trunion is hoisted into the saw and
> bolted in, the tags are hand riveted on (as in manual riveter!). The top
is
> lifted on, aligned to the blade with a dial indicator and torqued down,
> shimming where necessary to ensure the table is flat. The last station a
guy
> slops cosmoline on the top and all exposed cast iron surfaces, wraps the
saw
> in plastic and air nails a crate around the saw.
>
> When you buy a General 350 you are buying the best saw made today for
under
> $3000, Hell, even Keith Bohn (aka UA100, UniNut, etc.) said if he were
> buying a new saw he would buy a 350.
>
> BTW, I am not a fan of left tilt saws. All the arguments for them are
> meaningless. If you dado a lot, you are going to want an accurate scale
for
> your fence rather than having to do math each time you make a cut to
account
> for the blades stacking on to the arbour backwards to a right tilt saw,
for
> me anyway, that out weighs all the "merits" of a left tilt. If you put a
> sliding table on your left tilt, the point is at the bottom for bevel
cuts,
> which is one of the arguments people make against right tilts oddly
enough.
>
> Anyway, I can go on and on as to why the General 350 is the best saw made
> today but I have things to do...
>
> Thanks,
>
> David.
>
> Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
>
> Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.
>
> Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.
>
> rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
> Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
> Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar
>
>
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:38:19 GMT, "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp Delta X5
>series cabinet saws?
I just spent 2 months comparing the PM66, X5 Unisaw, Jet JTAS-10,
Grizz 1023, and a General 350/650. I compared them in person, not
simply via statistics.
I bought the General 650, at a price that fell in between the PM 66
and X5.
Finger them all, I think all are serviceable, with the PM66, X5, and
General being top notch, with an almost imperceptible step down to the
Jet. The Grizzly was a decent saw, but clearly not up to the quality
of the other 4. You may feel one is better than the other, or get a
decent used deal on one of them. Buy that one! <G>
I bought the General because I really liked the cut quality of the one
I tested, the complete lack of negatives, and the all metal
construction of the saw. New Generals now include a chute that
directs the dust towards the DC outlet.
Barry
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:56:01 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Possibly. However, original tablesaw height is 34" inches and my ideal
>working height is 29" so it would be 5" maximum that I'd want removed.
>Looking at the picture of the 350, I'm not sure how General came up with the
>10" figure.
They're using Canadian inches.
In six months you may need to remove 12. ;>
Michael
Possibly. However, original tablesaw height is 34" inches and my ideal
working height is 29" so it would be 5" maximum that I'd want removed.
Looking at the picture of the 350, I'm not sure how General came up with the
10" figure. Removing that much, at least directly from the bottom of the
cabinet, makes it look like one would be eating into the dust port. Guess I
won't know until I actually see one in person.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:39:18 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> Not to butt in, but it seems that if you chop 10" off the base of the
> saw, the support may not be necessary. The sheet metal will have to
> span a smaller distance, making thinner material strong enough.
"When the top is put on the saw, it is checked with a 4' strait edge,
shims
> may have been put under the corners of the main table between the top of the
> sheet metal cabinet and the cast top to ensure it is flat (the flange at the
> top of the sheet metal cabinets are not faced, this is the only way to
> ensure every table top is flat, who else shims the tops?).
FWIW my jet has shims between the base and table and was aligned blade
to miter slot within .002" out of the box. keith
Hope you remembered to kiss your saw goodnight. I suspect if I had one, I
might do the same for the first few nights. Either that or I'd sleep with it
awhile.
Just as an offshoot to your comments about General, I emailed them a few
months ago and asked if the height if the General 350 could be shortened 5"
for my use from a wheelchair. They said it could be cut down as much as 10"
but that it would void any warranty. I replied asking them if some type of
warranty arrangement could be organized where I paid to have the height
surgically altered by them. Never got a response. I'm loath to pay $2000 for
something bereft of any warranty. I'll have to contact them again.
"David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
> there is only one to get, a General 350.
I have a 5 HP Powermatic 66. I love it.Go for the Powermatic..
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp Delta
X5
> series cabinet saws? Does anyone have good or bad experience with either?
> I've only read good about Powermatic and motor problems with Delta, is
this
> true? Fine woodworking mag gave top scores to Delta. I'll be doing cabinet
> work, remodelling house, furniture with this saw.
>
>
"Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Wayne Weber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:SuoGb.449342$Dw6.1359013@attbi_s02...
> > In addition the Powermatic has a left tilting blade. The woodworking
mags
> > are always making a big deal of this since the cutoff portion in a rip
> won't
> > get caught between the blade and the fence.
>
> I respectfully disagree. Go with what you are used to. Each tilt has its
> advantages and disadvantages. Having used a right tilt since my shop days
> in high school as well as dad having a right tilter, I 've grown up with
the
> right tilt and have gotten used to working with that tilt. I have also
used
> the left tilt quite a bit. I'll also have you know I've been hit with
kick
> backs from both! So to say one is safer than the other is hog wash. Both
> tilts need your undivided attention when cutting at any angle.
>
> Now if you are a newbie and getting a saw for the first time and are not
> used to a certain tilt, I would try to find both a right and left tilt to
> demo and decide for yourself which is better. A cabinet saw is a big
> expenditure and is one you should definately be comfortable with. Just my
2
> cents.
Sage advice, all!
> SH
PB
>
>
If you're going to compare complaint amounts (god knows why you'd want to,
but) then start using percentage of those sold, not just comparing total
amounts.
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you google a search, you'll find more complaints postings on the
> PM66. You'll also find more postings about the PM66. It is a
> statistics thing, rather than a statement about quality. There are
Hello there,
> Just as an offshoot to your comments about General, I emailed them a few
> months ago and asked if the height if the General 350 could be shortened
5"
> for my use from a wheelchair. They said it could be cut down as much as
10"
> but that it would void any warranty. I replied asking them if some type of
> warranty arrangement could be organized where I paid to have the height
> surgically altered by them. Never got a response. I'm loath to pay $2000
for
> something bereft of any warranty. I'll have to contact them again.
I speak with the people at General almost every day, email me privately what
you want done and I will see what they want ($$$) to do it. Tell me who you
local dealer is and I will see if something can be worked out. If you don't
have a local dealer, I will be happy to have it shipped direct from Canada
to your house.
The plinth on the bottom of the cabinet is about 5", removing that alone
should give you the working height you are looking for.
Would it not be easier to make a ramp up to the saw rather than cut the saw
down though?
Be sure to follow the instructions in my sig to email me.
Thanks,
David.
Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.
Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.
rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
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Now that is the Best unbiased review on a set of machines that I have ever
read,
And the most truthful
I have never touched a General, have only heard good about them
For for 40 odd years Powermatic has had it over the Delta, IMHO
I think Jet has come a long way since its entrance to the market, was real
crap when it first came out,
Griz is okay for the money but should really not be mentioned in the same
sentence or breath.
I do have a Unisaw because thats the Deal that came my way when I needed it.
It is a 5 HP right tilt but would prefer a left tilt.
I have had 3 HP but prefer not to use anything less than a 5 HP
What I really want is my sliding table saw. 16" Blade 9.9 HP 120 Inch
stroke.
Whoooowe How I miss that baby Oh well,
As they say you never miss what you never had, Well I had one and I miss it
sooooo Much.
If anyone here has been in front of the blade on one of these then you know
what I Mean
Well one Christmas Santa may bring one as soon as he gets about 12 K to Piss
away.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:38:19 GMT, "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp Delta
X5
> >series cabinet saws?
>
> I just spent 2 months comparing the PM66, X5 Unisaw, Jet JTAS-10,
> Grizz 1023, and a General 350/650. I compared them in person, not
> simply via statistics.
>
> I bought the General 650, at a price that fell in between the PM 66
> and X5.
>
> Finger them all, I think all are serviceable, with the PM66, X5, and
> General being top notch, with an almost imperceptible step down to the
> Jet. The Grizzly was a decent saw, but clearly not up to the quality
> of the other 4. You may feel one is better than the other, or get a
> decent used deal on one of them. Buy that one! <G>
>
> I bought the General because I really liked the cut quality of the one
> I tested, the complete lack of negatives, and the all metal
> construction of the saw. New Generals now include a chute that
> directs the dust towards the DC outlet.
>
> Barry
>
In addition the Powermatic has a left tilting blade. The woodworking mags
are always making a big deal of this since the cutoff portion in a rip won't
get caught between the blade and the fence. I bought the 5 hp three phase 66
and had the dealer replace the Biesemeyer fence with the Excalibur as part
of the deal. The beast is heavy duty and very well made. It's about 10
years old so I don't know if they are still making them as well or not.
"FOW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have a 5 HP Powermatic 66. I love it.Go for the Powermatic..
> "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
> > Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp
Delta
> X5
> > series cabinet saws? Does anyone have good or bad experience with
either?
> > I've only read good about Powermatic and motor problems with Delta, is
> this
> > true? Fine woodworking mag gave top scores to Delta. I'll be doing
cabinet
> > work, remodelling house, furniture with this saw.
> >
> >
>
>
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:38:19 GMT, "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp Delta
X5
> >series cabinet saws?
>
> I just spent 2 months comparing the PM66, X5 Unisaw, Jet JTAS-10,
> Grizz 1023, and a General 350/650. I compared them in person, not
> simply via statistics.
>
> I bought the General 650, at a price that fell in between the PM 66
> and X5.
>
> Finger them all, I think all are serviceable, with the PM66, X5, and
> General being top notch, with an almost imperceptible step down to the
> Jet. The Grizzly was a decent saw, but clearly not up to the quality
> of the other 4. You may feel one is better than the other, or get a
> decent used deal on one of them. Buy that one! <G>
>
> I bought the General because I really liked the cut quality of the one
> I tested, the complete lack of negatives, and the all metal
> construction of the saw. New Generals now include a chute that
> directs the dust towards the DC outlet.
>
> Barry
>
I think that Barry gave some great advice.
I think that you will be fine with a 3 Hp. motor. I have the Unisaw with a
3 Hp. motor and never have any problems cutting 12/4 maple or cherry. I
would also look at the regular Unisaw unless you have a need for one of the
tools in the package.
If you are going to be cutting a lot of sheet goods, and have the space, I
think that a sliding table is a wonderful addition to the saw. I work alone
so I purchased the Laguna large table and would not want to work without it.
There are other brands that I have also heard good things about but have not
used.
Bob McBreen - Yarrow Point Washington
Hello everyone,
I am very opinionated on this and I am happy to debate anyone on this topic
as I am very secure in my point of view.
Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
there is only one to get, a General 350.
I work at a very large machinery dealer in Canada, we sell Delta,
Powermatic, General, General International as well as a few offshore brands
very few of you will have heard of. I don't get nearly the same level of
complaints about General 350's as I do about Uni's.
General is the only company who still controls *every* aspect of manufacture
of their equipment. Iron ore pulls up at the back door and finished machines
go out the front door. They are the only company who still uses Meehanite
castings ( http://www.meehanite.com/ ), they are quite proud of this and
have the certification plaque displayed quite prominently in the foundry.
When Powermatic still owned a foundry, they were a Meehanite certified
foundry. When Delta Canada still had a foundry (the Callander foundry in
Guelph Ontario) it too was a Meehanite certified foundry. When I asked what
happened to the millings, if they went back into the furnace, I was told
quite plainly "No", all materials in the furnace are virgin, offcuts could
not be recycled. We were (our company) packing up from a trade show last
year when a light rain caught a couple of our machines outside. The
Taiwanese stuff rusted and pitted almost immediately, with the Canadian made
General equipment, all we had to do was wipe the water off, no marks on the
tables!
When you operated the tilt and height wheels on a 350/650, there is *no*
lash, I don't mean very little, I mean *no* lash. The saw comes assembled in
a crate, you have very little to do to fire up the saw when you get it home.
When the top is put on the saw, it is checked with a 4' strait edge, shims
may have been put under the corners of the main table between the top of the
sheet metal cabinet and the cast top to ensure it is flat (the flange at the
top of the sheet metal cabinets are not faced, this is the only way to
ensure every table top is flat, who else shims the tops?). The trunions are
much beefier than either a 66 or a Uni. The motor is an off the shelf mount
Baldor. The mitre slot measures out at 0.0750" and the mitre gauge bar is
0.0749" (yes, I have measured them with a digital micrometer). There is no
side to side play between the mitre bar and the slot, the mitre bar is a
piece of milled steel, not a piece of off the shelf bar stock. The mitre
gauge head is cast iron, not pot metal or aluminium.
I was very disappointed the first time I saw a 66, it has a unique drive
pulley, double bearing, arbour arrangement, rather than the usual bearing,
drive pulley, bearing, arbour face arrangement like a General or a Delta
Uni. While I know the 66 is a good saw, it would seem better to support the
drive pulley on both sides with a bearing rather than just on the inboard
side.
I visited the foundry and machine shop in Drummonville Quebec last year and
I was totally impressed. It is a strange mixture of new and old. CNC
machines spitting gears all day long, but the final assembly and fitting of
the each saw is still done by hand. The assembly line consists of three
stations with four or five guys. The trunion is hoisted into the saw and
bolted in, the tags are hand riveted on (as in manual riveter!). The top is
lifted on, aligned to the blade with a dial indicator and torqued down,
shimming where necessary to ensure the table is flat. The last station a guy
slops cosmoline on the top and all exposed cast iron surfaces, wraps the saw
in plastic and air nails a crate around the saw.
When you buy a General 350 you are buying the best saw made today for under
$3000, Hell, even Keith Bohn (aka UA100, UniNut, etc.) said if he were
buying a new saw he would buy a 350.
BTW, I am not a fan of left tilt saws. All the arguments for them are
meaningless. If you dado a lot, you are going to want an accurate scale for
your fence rather than having to do math each time you make a cut to account
for the blades stacking on to the arbour backwards to a right tilt saw, for
me anyway, that out weighs all the "merits" of a left tilt. If you put a
sliding table on your left tilt, the point is at the bottom for bevel cuts,
which is one of the arguments people make against right tilts oddly enough.
Anyway, I can go on and on as to why the General 350 is the best saw made
today but I have things to do...
Thanks,
David.
Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.
Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.
rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
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Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:33:22 GMT, "Wayne Weber"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In addition the Powermatic has a left tilting blade.
All good table saws are available with a left tilting blade.
Barry
Wow that opened up a can of worms
I think I'm going for the Delta Model 36-L31X-BC50 (3Hp X5 Series Lt Tilt).
I'm going for this more for the 5 year warranty and availability of after
market products here in North Carolina/USA. But I still can't get the
Powermatic 66 and now General 350/650 out of my head Decisions Decisions.
My wife and I are new to serious woodworking but we have done a lot of DIY
around the house with power hand tools e.g. reshingled roof, siding house
and built a large shed and all of them look great. Now we want to make
furniture, cabinets and whatever else we can think of or do not know yet.
Just trying to figure out the tools to get is endless and frustrating and I
thought the OSB vs. Plywood debate was tough!!
So could I ask the group with all your knowledge and great sage power if
you went back in time and were going to redo your shop and/or for serious
DIY's and had $5000 to $7,000 to set up a workshop what would you get? What
is over kill e.g. 6' joiner vs. 8" joiner. We would rather get one quality
tool and save up for the next then make a compromise and have regrets in the
future.
Thanks
Ken
Wayne Weber said:
>In addition the Powermatic has a left tilting blade. The woodworking mags
>are always making a big deal of this since the cutoff portion in a rip won't
>get caught between the blade and the fence.
I've always wondered about this statement.
To me, the best reason for having a left-tilt is that when cutting
miters on veneered sheet material, using the fence on the 'proper'
side - you know, the long side with the ruler - the tear-out is on the
backside.
Maybe I'm just slow... <g>
Greg G.
Davey, Are you trying to start a cross border war or a brand war?! I do
agree though, being the very happy owner of a 350 myself. I had always
thought bout getting a Uni, till I saw the saws side by side at House of
Tools. Really no comparison (except the dust extraction). I worked with
big machines in the oil patch and when you are used to well made heavy iron,
you notice things right off.
Happy sniping Delta PM fans
"David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am very opinionated on this and I am happy to debate anyone on this
topic
> as I am very secure in my point of view.
>
> Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
> there is only one to get, a General 350.
>
> I work at a very large machinery dealer in Canada, we sell Delta,
> Powermatic, General, General International as well as a few offshore
brands
> very few of you will have heard of. I don't get nearly the same level of
> complaints about General 350's as I do about Uni's.
>
> General is the only company who still controls *every* aspect of
manufacture
> of their equipment. Iron ore pulls up at the back door and finished
machines
> go out the front door. They are the only company who still uses Meehanite
> castings ( http://www.meehanite.com/ ), they are quite proud of this and
> have the certification plaque displayed quite prominently in the foundry.
> When Powermatic still owned a foundry, they were a Meehanite certified
> foundry. When Delta Canada still had a foundry (the Callander foundry in
> Guelph Ontario) it too was a Meehanite certified foundry. When I asked
what
> happened to the millings, if they went back into the furnace, I was told
> quite plainly "No", all materials in the furnace are virgin, offcuts could
> not be recycled. We were (our company) packing up from a trade show last
> year when a light rain caught a couple of our machines outside. The
> Taiwanese stuff rusted and pitted almost immediately, with the Canadian
made
> General equipment, all we had to do was wipe the water off, no marks on
the
> tables!
>
> When you operated the tilt and height wheels on a 350/650, there is *no*
> lash, I don't mean very little, I mean *no* lash. The saw comes assembled
in
> a crate, you have very little to do to fire up the saw when you get it
home.
> When the top is put on the saw, it is checked with a 4' strait edge, shims
> may have been put under the corners of the main table between the top of
the
> sheet metal cabinet and the cast top to ensure it is flat (the flange at
the
> top of the sheet metal cabinets are not faced, this is the only way to
> ensure every table top is flat, who else shims the tops?). The trunions
are
> much beefier than either a 66 or a Uni. The motor is an off the shelf
mount
> Baldor. The mitre slot measures out at 0.0750" and the mitre gauge bar is
> 0.0749" (yes, I have measured them with a digital micrometer). There is no
> side to side play between the mitre bar and the slot, the mitre bar is a
> piece of milled steel, not a piece of off the shelf bar stock. The mitre
> gauge head is cast iron, not pot metal or aluminium.
>
> I was very disappointed the first time I saw a 66, it has a unique drive
> pulley, double bearing, arbour arrangement, rather than the usual bearing,
> drive pulley, bearing, arbour face arrangement like a General or a Delta
> Uni. While I know the 66 is a good saw, it would seem better to support
the
> drive pulley on both sides with a bearing rather than just on the inboard
> side.
>
> I visited the foundry and machine shop in Drummonville Quebec last year
and
> I was totally impressed. It is a strange mixture of new and old. CNC
> machines spitting gears all day long, but the final assembly and fitting
of
> the each saw is still done by hand. The assembly line consists of three
> stations with four or five guys. The trunion is hoisted into the saw and
> bolted in, the tags are hand riveted on (as in manual riveter!). The top
is
> lifted on, aligned to the blade with a dial indicator and torqued down,
> shimming where necessary to ensure the table is flat. The last station a
guy
> slops cosmoline on the top and all exposed cast iron surfaces, wraps the
saw
> in plastic and air nails a crate around the saw.
>
> When you buy a General 350 you are buying the best saw made today for
under
> $3000, Hell, even Keith Bohn (aka UA100, UniNut, etc.) said if he were
> buying a new saw he would buy a 350.
>
> BTW, I am not a fan of left tilt saws. All the arguments for them are
> meaningless. If you dado a lot, you are going to want an accurate scale
for
> your fence rather than having to do math each time you make a cut to
account
> for the blades stacking on to the arbour backwards to a right tilt saw,
for
> me anyway, that out weighs all the "merits" of a left tilt. If you put a
> sliding table on your left tilt, the point is at the bottom for bevel
cuts,
> which is one of the arguments people make against right tilts oddly
enough.
>
> Anyway, I can go on and on as to why the General 350 is the best saw made
> today but I have things to do...
>
> Thanks,
>
> David.
>
> Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
>
> Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.
>
> Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.
>
> rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
> Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
> Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar
>
>
If you google a search, you'll find more complaints postings on the
PM66. You'll also find more postings about the PM66. It is a
statistics thing, rather than a statement about quality. There are
more PM66s manufactured/sold than General 350s manufactured/sold.
Maybe it is due to more woodworkers in USA than Canada, availability,
or effective advertisement, I don't know. If anyone chooses a General
350 or PM66, they have made an excellent choice for their shop and it
may be the last tablesaw you ever buy.
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:23:02 -0500, D. Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I'm still trying to figure out your statement about more PM66's
>equates to more complaints ?
>
>Here is a simplified point of view. General 350, 100, 1000, or 10,000
>units very few complaints if any. Yes, I know its Canadian made, we
>do have a few good products worth mentionning.
>
>D.Martin
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:26:30 GMT, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>IMHO, the PM 66 is nearly equal to the General 350. Since I'm in the
>>USA, I got the more-readily available PM 66. Excellent table saw, and
>>recommended by many woodworking professionals. I were to get a Delta
>>tablesaw, it would be one built 20 years ago after seeing a new and
>>old one side-by-side. Since you are in Canada, the General 350 would
>>be the best choice for $2000. I bet there are many more PM66s than
>>Generals 350's, so more complaints about the PM.
IMHO, the PM 66 is nearly equal to the General 350. Since I'm in the
USA, I got the more-readily available PM 66. Excellent table saw, and
recommended by many woodworking professionals. I were to get a Delta
tablesaw, it would be one built 20 years ago after seeing a new and
old one side-by-side. Since you are in Canada, the General 350 would
be the best choice for $2000. I bet there are many more PM66s than
Generals 350's, so more complaints about the PM.
I'm still trying to figure out your statement about more PM66's
equates to more complaints ?
Here is a simplified point of view. General 350, 100, 1000, or 10,000
units very few complaints if any. Yes, I know its Canadian made, we
do have a few good products worth mentionning.
D.Martin
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:26:30 GMT, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>IMHO, the PM 66 is nearly equal to the General 350. Since I'm in the
>USA, I got the more-readily available PM 66. Excellent table saw, and
>recommended by many woodworking professionals. I were to get a Delta
>tablesaw, it would be one built 20 years ago after seeing a new and
>old one side-by-side. Since you are in Canada, the General 350 would
>be the best choice for $2000. I bet there are many more PM66s than
>Generals 350's, so more complaints about the PM.
Thanks David, I'll keep your email address handy. Since I live in an
apartment, my first priority in purchasing a tablesaw is getting a shop
location that is wheelchair accessible close enough to where I live.
"David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I speak with the people at General almost every day, email me privately
> what
> you want done and I will see what they want ($$$) to do it. Tell me who
> you
> local dealer is and I will see if something can be worked out. If you
> don't
> have a local dealer, I will be happy to have it shipped direct from Canada
> to your house.
I live in Toronto, but so far, the closest dealers I've been able to find
are in Hamilton; Tegs Tools or Ashman Technical.
> The plinth on the bottom of the cabinet is about 5", removing that alone
> should give you the working height you are looking for.
Wouldn't the plinth be a necessity for solid support? Looking at pictures of
the 350, it just looks like a thicker band of metal around the base.
> Would it not be easier to make a ramp up to the saw rather than cut the
> saw
> down though?
That was suggested to me by General email support. Considering all the
moving around a shop one does, moving up and down ramps and the possibility
of rolling over the edge of one would likely make it quite dangerous. I
thought of raising the entire floor on 2x4's and sheet plywood and lowering
the tablesaw into a cutout, but that would use quite a bit of cubic footage
and come with it's own problems. One advantage to it though, might be
running something like vacuum lines and dust collector lines under it. If I
had my own house, I'd have a lowered concrete hole dug out.
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:39:18 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> The plinth on the bottom of the cabinet is about 5", removing that alone
>> should give you the working height you are looking for.
>
>Wouldn't the plinth be a necessity for solid support? Looking at pictures of
>the 350, it just looks like a thicker band of metal around the base.
Not to butt in, but it seems that if you chop 10" off the base of the
saw, the support may not be necessary. The sheet metal will have to
span a smaller distance, making thinner material strong enough.
Barry
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:48:22 GMT, "David F. Eisan"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
>I am very opinionated on this and I am happy to debate anyone on this topic
>as I am very secure in my point of view.
>
>Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
>there is only one to get, a General 350.
Bull!
I bought the 650! So there! <G>
Barry
"john moorhead" <[email protected]> wrote in
> As for power, do you really need 5 hp? 3 hp is fine for just about
anything
> a rec'r or contractor would throw at it, and perhaps a more perverse way
of
> putting it might be to ask.... If you ever have a kickback and get the
"fast
> pitch" from your table saw, would you rather have 3 hp or 5 hp behind that
> spinning chunk of maple, oak, pine, or plywood coming at you at sub-light
> speed? Also, think about your power consumption....
Speaking from the contractor point of view, I have a delta cabinet 3hp and
constantly wish I had more power. I rip alot of lumber (green and dried)
and will often bog the saw down with a perfectly sharp rip blade (specially
the green stuff). From my perspective, I wish I would have shelled out the
cuppla hundred bucks for the 5hp model. Just my 2 cents.
SH
Yeah, but all we really want to know is how it compares to the Grizzly 1023.
Montyhp
"David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am very opinionated on this and I am happy to debate anyone on this
topic
> as I am very secure in my point of view.
>
> Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
> there is only one to get, a General 350.
>
> I work at a very large machinery dealer in Canada, we sell Delta,
> Powermatic, General, General International as well as a few offshore
brands
> very few of you will have heard of. I don't get nearly the same level of
> complaints about General 350's as I do about Uni's.
>
> General is the only company who still controls *every* aspect of
manufacture
> of their equipment. Iron ore pulls up at the back door and finished
machines
> go out the front door. They are the only company who still uses Meehanite
> castings ( http://www.meehanite.com/ ), they are quite proud of this and
> have the certification plaque displayed quite prominently in the foundry.
> When Powermatic still owned a foundry, they were a Meehanite certified
> foundry. When Delta Canada still had a foundry (the Callander foundry in
> Guelph Ontario) it too was a Meehanite certified foundry. When I asked
what
> happened to the millings, if they went back into the furnace, I was told
> quite plainly "No", all materials in the furnace are virgin, offcuts could
> not be recycled. We were (our company) packing up from a trade show last
> year when a light rain caught a couple of our machines outside. The
> Taiwanese stuff rusted and pitted almost immediately, with the Canadian
made
> General equipment, all we had to do was wipe the water off, no marks on
the
> tables!
>
> When you operated the tilt and height wheels on a 350/650, there is *no*
> lash, I don't mean very little, I mean *no* lash. The saw comes assembled
in
> a crate, you have very little to do to fire up the saw when you get it
home.
> When the top is put on the saw, it is checked with a 4' strait edge, shims
> may have been put under the corners of the main table between the top of
the
> sheet metal cabinet and the cast top to ensure it is flat (the flange at
the
> top of the sheet metal cabinets are not faced, this is the only way to
> ensure every table top is flat, who else shims the tops?). The trunions
are
> much beefier than either a 66 or a Uni. The motor is an off the shelf
mount
> Baldor. The mitre slot measures out at 0.0750" and the mitre gauge bar is
> 0.0749" (yes, I have measured them with a digital micrometer). There is no
> side to side play between the mitre bar and the slot, the mitre bar is a
> piece of milled steel, not a piece of off the shelf bar stock. The mitre
> gauge head is cast iron, not pot metal or aluminium.
>
> I was very disappointed the first time I saw a 66, it has a unique drive
> pulley, double bearing, arbour arrangement, rather than the usual bearing,
> drive pulley, bearing, arbour face arrangement like a General or a Delta
> Uni. While I know the 66 is a good saw, it would seem better to support
the
> drive pulley on both sides with a bearing rather than just on the inboard
> side.
>
> I visited the foundry and machine shop in Drummonville Quebec last year
and
> I was totally impressed. It is a strange mixture of new and old. CNC
> machines spitting gears all day long, but the final assembly and fitting
of
> the each saw is still done by hand. The assembly line consists of three
> stations with four or five guys. The trunion is hoisted into the saw and
> bolted in, the tags are hand riveted on (as in manual riveter!). The top
is
> lifted on, aligned to the blade with a dial indicator and torqued down,
> shimming where necessary to ensure the table is flat. The last station a
guy
> slops cosmoline on the top and all exposed cast iron surfaces, wraps the
saw
> in plastic and air nails a crate around the saw.
>
> When you buy a General 350 you are buying the best saw made today for
under
> $3000, Hell, even Keith Bohn (aka UA100, UniNut, etc.) said if he were
> buying a new saw he would buy a 350.
>
> BTW, I am not a fan of left tilt saws. All the arguments for them are
> meaningless. If you dado a lot, you are going to want an accurate scale
for
> your fence rather than having to do math each time you make a cut to
account
> for the blades stacking on to the arbour backwards to a right tilt saw,
for
> me anyway, that out weighs all the "merits" of a left tilt. If you put a
> sliding table on your left tilt, the point is at the bottom for bevel
cuts,
> which is one of the arguments people make against right tilts oddly
enough.
>
> Anyway, I can go on and on as to why the General 350 is the best saw made
> today but I have things to do...
>
> Thanks,
>
> David.
>
> Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
>
> Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.
>
> Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.
>
> rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
> Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
> Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar
>
>
I can't see why altering the sheet metal cabinet would have any effect on
the warrantee for moving parts or cast iron.
--
Ross
www.myoldtools.com
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BPSGb.164826$ea%[email protected]...
> Hope you remembered to kiss your saw goodnight. I suspect if I had one, I
> might do the same for the first few nights. Either that or I'd sleep with
it
> awhile.
>
> Just as an offshoot to your comments about General, I emailed them a few
> months ago and asked if the height if the General 350 could be shortened
5"
> for my use from a wheelchair. They said it could be cut down as much as
10"
> but that it would void any warranty. I replied asking them if some type of
> warranty arrangement could be organized where I paid to have the height
> surgically altered by them. Never got a response. I'm loath to pay $2000
for
> something bereft of any warranty. I'll have to contact them again.
>
> "David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Once you have decided you are going to spend $1500-2000 for a table saw,
> > there is only one to get, a General 350.
>
>
"Wayne Weber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:SuoGb.449342$Dw6.1359013@attbi_s02...
> In addition the Powermatic has a left tilting blade. The woodworking mags
> are always making a big deal of this since the cutoff portion in a rip
won't
> get caught between the blade and the fence.
I respectfully disagree. Go with what you are used to. Each tilt has its
advantages and disadvantages. Having used a right tilt since my shop days
in high school as well as dad having a right tilter, I 've grown up with the
right tilt and have gotten used to working with that tilt. I have also used
the left tilt quite a bit. I'll also have you know I've been hit with kick
backs from both! So to say one is safer than the other is hog wash. Both
tilts need your undivided attention when cutting at any angle.
Now if you are a newbie and getting a saw for the first time and are not
used to a certain tilt, I would try to find both a right and left tilt to
demo and decide for yourself which is better. A cabinet saw is a big
expenditure and is one you should definately be comfortable with. Just my 2
cents.
SH
Easy to say knowing he'll never buy anything less than 40 years old.
--
Ross
www.myoldtools.com
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David F. Eisan wrote:
> >Hell, even Keith Bohn (aka UA100, UniNut, etc.) said if he were
> >buying a new saw he would buy a 350.
>
>
> A'yup. This is true.
>
> UA100
I have the Right Tilt model of the General (the 350) it's about 8 years old
and boy oh boy do I like that saw... I picked it over both the PM and the
Delta, due to positive reviews, no negatives *at all* that I could find in
Newsgroups.... and it's GREEN.... Every group of reviews for the PM/Deltas
always seems to have this subcurrent of some dissatisfactions... Not
something you want when you're going to drop some LARGE dollars on cast
iron... I couldn't find a bad word about the General.
Also, I called several dealers while researching saws, and Delta/PM dealers
mentioned problems w/Arbor brgs, gear slop, bad castings, etc..... The
General dealer said that he couldn't remember the last time he'd had anyone
that had trouble with a General saw.... He also carried PM and Delta, so it
wasn't like asking the barber if he thought you needed a haircut. The best
part - arbor bearings $8 each... Arbor shaft.... $13....
As for power, do you really need 5 hp? 3 hp is fine for just about anything
a rec'r or contractor would throw at it, and perhaps a more perverse way of
putting it might be to ask.... If you ever have a kickback and get the "fast
pitch" from your table saw, would you rather have 3 hp or 5 hp behind that
spinning chunk of maple, oak, pine, or plywood coming at you at sub-light
speed? Also, think about your power consumption....
HTH,
John Moorhead
Lakeport, CA
PS: If it's strictly between X5 and PM66, I'd take a PM66... Lurk around
and look for used saws - 3 phase units come up much more frequently if you
have three phase available.... Must be all those cabinet shops closing here
and opening up in Kandong Provence, China...
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:38:19 GMT, "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Need help on deciding between a 3hp/ 5hp Powermatic 66 Vs 3Hp/ 5 Hp Delta
X5
> >series cabinet saws?
>
> I just spent 2 months comparing the PM66, X5 Unisaw, Jet JTAS-10,
> Grizz 1023, and a General 350/650. I compared them in person, not
> simply via statistics.
>
> I bought the General 650, at a price that fell in between the PM 66
> and X5.
>
> Finger them all, I think all are serviceable, with the PM66, X5, and
> General being top notch, with an almost imperceptible step down to the
> Jet. The Grizzly was a decent saw, but clearly not up to the quality
> of the other 4. You may feel one is better than the other, or get a
> decent used deal on one of them. Buy that one! <G>
>
> I bought the General because I really liked the cut quality of the one
> I tested, the complete lack of negatives, and the all metal
> construction of the saw. New Generals now include a chute that
> directs the dust towards the DC outlet.
>
> Barry
>
Hello again,
> Hope you remembered to kiss your saw goodnight. I suspect if I had one, I
> might do the same for the first few nights. Either that or I'd sleep with
it
> awhile.
Actually, the irony is, is that I have a Unisaw and not a General 350. I
have an old Canadian made Unisaw that I restored two winters ago. I am about
to sell it and restore another one, this time an even older saw.
Thanks,
David.
Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.
Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.
rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar