The story at this link:
http://www.patwarner.com/routertable_jointing.html
************************************************************************
> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight cutting
> bit and fence?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Hi Dave, et al,
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> working the face of boards up to 6" or 8" or, if you've dropped some
> serious cash, 12" or wider! I doubt you have a router bit that can cut
> even 3 inches! A well tuned jointer does a fast job and leaves a
> surface requiring minimal sanding even for perfectionists.
Worth noting, with a 6" jointer, can't you surface 12" wide boards
in two passes??????? That said, for a novice what advantages does the
Powermatic 6" jointer have over the Jet for ~$200 more in price, other
than longer beds?????
>
> dave
>
> habbi wrote:
>
>> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
>> cutting
>> bit and fence?
"habbi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
cutting
> bit and fence?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
Plus, to add to Eric's post, your question presumes that the only purpose of
a join(t)er is to joint edges. Another purpose of a jointer is to flatten
faces. That's hard to do with a router.
todd
Dave,
I think what he meant is that you can do a 12" wide board using "skip
jointing" - where a majority of a surface is flattened sufficiently to put
it through a planer and not have any adverse effects, such as flattening
cupping in the board only to have it spring back. I have done 8" wide stock
using a 6" jointer and then plane the surface.
The extra long beds certainly are nice too. Every time I have one of those
projects that require 7' to 8' long pieces I have to put lead weights in my
britches just so I have enough oomph to keep the board from lifting....;-)
Bob S.
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> the Powermatic 6" is what I've got and it's got what I wanted: a loooong
> bed, quality, and FLAT beds and fence. That's critical to the purpose
> of using a jointer.
>
> Yes you can do a wider board, but it may not come out perfect, like
> jointing a board narrower than the blade. Also, if you want to joint
> just a tiny bit off, you'll have to find a similarly thin piece of
> material to place on the rabbetting table to help stabilize the board
> for the second pass.
>
> For me it's WELL worth the little bit extra expense. Consider how long
> you'll own it...
>
> dave
>
> Joseph Crowe wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave, et al,
> > Bay Area Dave wrote:
> >
> >> working the face of boards up to 6" or 8" or, if you've dropped some
> >> serious cash, 12" or wider! I doubt you have a router bit that can
> >> cut even 3 inches! A well tuned jointer does a fast job and leaves a
> >> surface requiring minimal sanding even for perfectionists.
> >
> >
> > Worth noting, with a 6" jointer, can't you surface 12" wide boards
> > in two passes??????? That said, for a novice what advantages does the
> > Powermatic 6" jointer have over the Jet for ~$200 more in price, other
> > than longer beds?????
> >
> >>
> >> dave
> >>
> >> habbi wrote:
> >>
> >>> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
> >>> cutting
> >>> bit and fence?
> >
> >
>
Well for one, a joiner is a person (cabinetmaker) and a router table is an
object....
With a jointer, you can flatten the face of a board and make one edge
perpendicular to the face just flattened. You can use a router and a fence
as you indicate to edge-joint a board but to flatten a face of a board you
would be limited to the height of the router bit.
The advantage of edge jointing using a jointer over a router setup would
depend on several variables (width of edge, how long the stock is, how long
the router table, sturdiness and accuracy of router fence, etc.).
Bob S.
"habbi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
cutting
> bit and fence?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
>
>
working the face of boards up to 6" or 8" or, if you've dropped some
serious cash, 12" or wider! I doubt you have a router bit that can cut
even 3 inches! A well tuned jointer does a fast job and leaves a
surface requiring minimal sanding even for perfectionists.
dave
habbi wrote:
> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight cutting
> bit and fence?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
>
>
"habbi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
cutting
> bit and fence?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
>
Even though the router will have more CPM (20,000 X 2) than the joiner
(4,800 X 3), the larger diameter joiner cutterhead will produce cuts that
are more tangent to the long axis of the board/grain and probably produce
less chip out.
Also, if I did the math correctly (big if:),
a two flute 1/2" straight bit in a router @20,000 rpm = 62,700 cutting
inches/min.
a DJ20 (4" dia cutterhead?) three knife cutterhead @4,800 rpm = 180,000
cutting inches/min
You would need to increase the router bit to 1-1/2" dia to equal the joiners
surfacing capability.
That said, it seems that the router table would have an advantage with long
stock as supporting the ends would be easier (without bridging the fence).
Another definition of joiner:
A wood-working machine, for sawing, plaining, mortising, tenoning, grooving,
etc.
"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well for one, a joiner is a person (cabinetmaker) and a router table is an
> object....
>
> With a jointer, you can flatten the face of a board and make one edge
> perpendicular to the face just flattened. You can use a router and a
fence
> as you indicate to edge-joint a board but to flatten a face of a board you
> would be limited to the height of the router bit.
>
> The advantage of edge jointing using a jointer over a router setup would
> depend on several variables (width of edge, how long the stock is, how
long
> the router table, sturdiness and accuracy of router fence, etc.).
>
> Bob S.
>
> "habbi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
> cutting
> > bit and fence?
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
> >
> >
>
>
I don't own a jointer, but from all the comments I've read here about
jointers, a longer bed appears to be a very desirable feature.
"Joseph Crowe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Worth noting, with a 6" jointer, can't you surface 12" wide boards
> in two passes??????? That said, for a novice what advantages does the
> Powermatic 6" jointer have over the Jet for ~$200 more in price, other
> than longer beds?????
sounds like a different technique than what I've read about where you
joint at least 50% of the board, and then shim the rabbetting table for
the second pass.
dave
Bob S. wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I think what he meant is that you can do a 12" wide board using "skip
> jointing" - where a majority of a surface is flattened sufficiently to put
> it through a planer and not have any adverse effects, such as flattening
> cupping in the board only to have it spring back. I have done 8" wide stock
> using a 6" jointer and then plane the surface.
>
> The extra long beds certainly are nice too. Every time I have one of those
> projects that require 7' to 8' long pieces I have to put lead weights in my
> britches just so I have enough oomph to keep the board from lifting....;-)
>
> Bob S.
>
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>the Powermatic 6" is what I've got and it's got what I wanted: a loooong
>>bed, quality, and FLAT beds and fence. That's critical to the purpose
>>of using a jointer.
>>
>>Yes you can do a wider board, but it may not come out perfect, like
>>jointing a board narrower than the blade. Also, if you want to joint
>>just a tiny bit off, you'll have to find a similarly thin piece of
>>material to place on the rabbetting table to help stabilize the board
>>for the second pass.
>>
>>For me it's WELL worth the little bit extra expense. Consider how long
>>you'll own it...
>>
>>dave
>>
>>Joseph Crowe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi Dave, et al,
>>>Bay Area Dave wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>working the face of boards up to 6" or 8" or, if you've dropped some
>>>>serious cash, 12" or wider! I doubt you have a router bit that can
>>>>cut even 3 inches! A well tuned jointer does a fast job and leaves a
>>>>surface requiring minimal sanding even for perfectionists.
>>>
>>>
>>> Worth noting, with a 6" jointer, can't you surface 12" wide boards
>>>in two passes??????? That said, for a novice what advantages does the
>>>Powermatic 6" jointer have over the Jet for ~$200 more in price, other
>>>than longer beds?????
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave
>>>>
>>>>habbi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
>>>>>cutting
>>>>>bit and fence?
>>>
>>>
>
>
"habbi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
cutting
> bit and fence?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
>
>
Couple of things I can think of off hand:
1) versatility - you can more easily joint non-90 degree edges
2) face jointing (flattening stock) - can't do it with a router
3) longer table = ability to joint longer stock
There are others, but the biggest advantage I can think of this: if you
primarily use your jointer for making edges straight you can set it once and
leave it that way. It always took me 5 to 10 minutes to change my router
table from whatever else I was doing with it to "jointer mode". It is soooo
handy to be able to take a board straight from the table saw to the jointer
without having to change the configuration of the router table.
As you know there is more than one way to skin a cat. But even for a
weekend woodworker such as myself the jointer was a very, very welcome
addition to my shop. I knew it would be handy, but I'm using it much, much
more than I ever thought I would.
My $.02
Eric
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:25:04 GMT, "habbi" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight cutting
>bit and fence?
Face jointing to start. <G>
Barry
the Powermatic 6" is what I've got and it's got what I wanted: a loooong
bed, quality, and FLAT beds and fence. That's critical to the purpose
of using a jointer.
Yes you can do a wider board, but it may not come out perfect, like
jointing a board narrower than the blade. Also, if you want to joint
just a tiny bit off, you'll have to find a similarly thin piece of
material to place on the rabbetting table to help stabilize the board
for the second pass.
For me it's WELL worth the little bit extra expense. Consider how long
you'll own it...
dave
Joseph Crowe wrote:
> Hi Dave, et al,
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>> working the face of boards up to 6" or 8" or, if you've dropped some
>> serious cash, 12" or wider! I doubt you have a router bit that can
>> cut even 3 inches! A well tuned jointer does a fast job and leaves a
>> surface requiring minimal sanding even for perfectionists.
>
>
> Worth noting, with a 6" jointer, can't you surface 12" wide boards
> in two passes??????? That said, for a novice what advantages does the
> Powermatic 6" jointer have over the Jet for ~$200 more in price, other
> than longer beds?????
>
>>
>> dave
>>
>> habbi wrote:
>>
>>> What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
>>> cutting
>>> bit and fence?
>
>
Taken from dictionary.com
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=joiner
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:TuxNb.60937$5V2.69906@attbi_s53...
> Another definition of joiner:
>
> A wood-working machine, for sawing, plaining, mortising, tenoning,
grooving,
> etc.
>
>
>
> "Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well for one, a joiner is a person (cabinetmaker) and a router table is
an
> > object....
> >
> > With a jointer, you can flatten the face of a board and make one edge
> > perpendicular to the face just flattened. You can use a router and a
> fence
> > as you indicate to edge-joint a board but to flatten a face of a board
you
> > would be limited to the height of the router bit.
> >
> > The advantage of edge jointing using a jointer over a router setup would
> > depend on several variables (width of edge, how long the stock is, how
> long
> > the router table, sturdiness and accuracy of router fence, etc.).
> >
> > Bob S.
> >
> > "habbi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > What advantage does a joiner have over a router table with straight
> > cutting
> > > bit and fence?
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/2004
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> sounds like a different technique than what I've read about where you
> joint at least 50% of the board, and then shim the rabbetting table for
> the second pass.
Yes, that was what I was thinking of. I have seen some interesting
techniques, though, that one can do to make a planer work for such
things as well. For instance, with a warped or cupped board, you can
edge glue the board to two straight boards and run it through the
thickness planer until it's flat on one surface and then eliminate the
side boards and surface the other side. Winding sticks and a hand plane
also work.....after all, that's how it was done for a long time before
modern power tools existed.
>
> dave
>
> Bob S. wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I think what he meant is that you can do a 12" wide board using "skip
>> jointing" - where a majority of a surface is flattened sufficiently to
>> put
>> it through a planer and not have any adverse effects, such as flattening
>> cupping in the board only to have it spring back. I have done 8" wide
>> stock
>> using a 6" jointer and then plane the surface.
>>
>> The extra long beds certainly are nice too. Every time I have one of
>> those
>> projects that require 7' to 8' long pieces I have to put lead weights
>> in my
>> britches just so I have enough oomph to keep the board from
>> lifting....;-)
That would not be a challenge for me.....*BEG*
>>
>> Bob S.
>>
>>
>> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> the Powermatic 6" is what I've got and it's got what I wanted: a loooong
>>> bed, quality, and FLAT beds and fence. That's critical to the purpose
>>> of using a jointer.
Thanks for the input...it's in the consideration hopper
>>>
>>> Yes you can do a wider board, but it may not come out perfect, like
>>> jointing a board narrower than the blade. Also, if you want to joint
>>> just a tiny bit off, you'll have to find a similarly thin piece of
>>> material to place on the rabbetting table to help stabilize the board
>>> for the second pass.
>>>
>>> For me it's WELL worth the little bit extra expense. Consider how long
>>> you'll own it...
Good point.....
>>>
>>> dave