Dissatisfied with Lee Valley order

In article <[email protected]>, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hell, I'LL take the blame if this thread will die!
>
Good enough -- we all agree it's all your fault.

My last post on the subject. ;-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

I have been placing orders with Lee Valley by phone, by web and never had a
problem. They have been great. They even replace one of the item I order by
mistake ,(when I was at fault)
Lee Valley is always my top choice., in woodworking supply.

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
> items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
> to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
> Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.
>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
> Woody
>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:03:42 -0500, Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]>
wrote:

>To Robin Lee:
>I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.

>I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I caused over
>this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

I love apologies that don't apologise for anything.

"I'm sorry you got upset when I screwed your wife. But, dude, like,
you should work on your anger management skills."

M--

FWIW, I've never had a problem with Lee Valley and will continue to do
business with them. Based on what I've read here on the wreck, they are
extremely responsive to their customers, so I have no doubt that should
I ever have a problem, it will be resolved promptly.

I find it curious though... You post on the 14th that you have not
received the package and will refuse, yet Mr Lee notes the package was
signed for the morning of the 11th.

djb

--
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

In article <[email protected]>, Doug
Miller <[email protected]> wrote:

> And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some of
> the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred dollars
> was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was signed
> for by "F. Rontdoor" !!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/nepl

Gun collectors (I am one) deal with this all the time. Firearms and
ammunition are normally shipped "adult signature required", but the
only times I've ever actually encountered a delivery critter were when
I was at my computer desk 12 feet from the front door. I'd hear the
doorbell ring, get up, and barely see them before they reached the end
of the sidewalk. They're *fast*!.

You should hear the horror stories on the collector mailing lists:
valuable firearms delivered without signature, left outside in the
weather on the back deck, reported "stolen in transit" to the BATF,
only to be discovered as a rusty mess some weeks later. Or (worse),
propped up against the front door in full view of the street. I've
opened the front door for my kids' friends dropping over after school,
only to discover 1,400 rounds of 8mm rifle ammunition "hidden" under
the welcome mat (it's rather like hiding a bus under your living room
rug).

Like lots of people, we only use the front door for guests and pizza
delivery. But when I order something, I check it every single day,
while also tracking it online.

Kevin

In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> Better pull your mukluks out of the cellophane before
> the scorch.

Who is he talking to? And how does he make his voice *DO* that?

djb

--
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

Things happen. This may very well have been one problem out of thousands of
orders. Leon's approach would have been the thing to do.
"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told
the truth
> of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my
project
> completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word
of what I
> said because it is true.
>
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?
>
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
> sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
> order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
> reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
> leap!
>
> Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from
the far
> left bleachers.
>
> Hoyt Weathers
>
> Leon wrote:
>
> > Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that
is
> > disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
> > Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
> > gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
> > I don't think you will get much sympathy here.
>

Hoyt -

Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system, and
it shows:

Order placed Sept 4th
Order shipped Sept 5th
Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according to
FedEx

Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping information
(when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not usually
any further contact than that...

Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
original shipping, and return postage.


Sincerely -

Rob Lee
President
Lee Valley Tools Ltd.



"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
> items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
> to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
> Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.
>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
> Woody
>

snip
Hoyt Weathers wrote:
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for
> sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific
> order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more.
> Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the >far left bleachers.
> Leon wrote:
> > Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
> > disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
> > Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
> > gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
> > I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

Hey Leon any more room on the bleachers? I suspect that Perry and I
need a seat too. I get tracking numbers, and I've never had anything
but great service from LV.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

Kevin Craig wrote:

<snipped>

> You should hear the horror stories on the collector mailing lists:
> valuable firearms delivered without signature, left outside in the
> weather on the back deck, reported "stolen in transit" to the BATF,
> only to be discovered as a rusty mess some weeks later. Or (worse),
> propped up against the front door in full view of the street. I've
> opened the front door for my kids' friends dropping over after school,
> only to discover 1,400 rounds of 8mm rifle ammunition "hidden" under
> the welcome mat (it's rather like hiding a bus under your living room
> rug).

I guess my delivery guy is more conscientious than yours. I had an order for
approx. $2,000 worth of computer parts delivered while it was raining. He didn't
want to leave it on the front porch or exposed to the rain. Several days later,
after "not receiving" the order, I called and was informed it had been delivered
to the back deck. After not being able to find the package, I opened the lid on
my gas grill. There was the package. I'm glad I wasn't in the mood for a steak
between the time the package was delivered and me finding it.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

The advantages of living in a small village. The UPS and FedEx drivers
flag me down if I'm passing them on the road and they have a package.
If not they just put it in the house (never need to lock the doors) and
when a package shows up at the Post Office they call to let me know it's
there.

And...I'm only a day away from Lee Valley!!!!!

Phil

Trent© wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:54:18 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, "mttt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>To Robin Lee:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>>the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred
>>>
>>>dollars
>>>
>>>>was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was
>>>
>>>signed
>>>
>>>>for by "F. Rontdoor" !!
>>>
>>>Yeah - but I'm admittedly very hypocritical on this. When I'm not home and
>>>want the package, I want them to just leave it. My neighborhood is good,
>>>nothing every gets ripped off.
>>>
>>>So I'm 80% OK with "F.Rontdoor" signing for me...
>>>
>>
>>I hope they don't do this with "signature required" shipments.
>>
>>The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the time.
>>The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.
>
>
> The world is changing...get used to it!
>
> You got the PACKAGE, didn't ya? Maybe he didn't have time to talk
> about the wife and kids.
>
> My mail gets delivered every day...and sometimes includes important
> stuff. The mailperson never rings the doorbell.
>
> USPS delivers by putting the package on the porch near the mail box.
> They also never ring the bell.
>
> FedEx just drops the package off...unless the sender requires a
> signature.
>
> Same with UPS. But the UPS driver always toots his horn as he drives
> up to my place. He knows that if I'm in, I'll come out and sign for
> him.
>
> The purpose of package delivery is package delivery. If its
> workin'...its workin'.
>
>
> Hope ya'll have a nice week...
>
> Trent
>
>
> Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

CW wrote:
> Things happen. This may very well have been one problem out of thousands of
> orders. Leon's approach would have been the thing to do.

The only thing I have found is that they want to charge obscene amounts,
unrelated to the size or value, to ship internationally. When I want
stuff, I ship it to my sister in FL, and she ships it to me. Still
cheaper than LV prices !

Steve

Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:

>Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
>schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
>the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.

According to FedEx (see post from Rob Lee) the order was received
exactly one week after you made the telephone call. In a reply to
Leon, you go on about how you're telling the truth. Could you please
confirm that the FedEx report is mistaken? Otherwise, you should
apologize for lying and complaining about what was actually good
service (1 week delivery for a phone order).

Ken Muldrew
[email protected]

Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:

> The FedEx report is indeed incorrect in
> that no person signed for the delivery.

That seems to be the case. Also, they claimed to have delivered it on
the 11th; I believe you dispute this as well.

> Also, I did not tell a falsehood.

I reproduce below a sentence that is deliberately misleading:

>> Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
>> >schedule, so I ordered by telephone.

Here you imply that you placed the order two weeks ago. Instead, you
waited 4 days from the time that you needed the two items before
finally placing the order on the 4th (which was 10 days prior to your
complaint, not two weeks). Unless you specify, and agree to pay for,
rapid delivery, a 10 day waiting period is well within the acceptable
range for mail order service. I think your public complaint was
unjustified.

Ken Muldrew
[email protected]

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "mttt"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
>
> The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the
time.
> The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.

Ok - you got me there... That's pretty damned lazy. Or maybe the delivery
person is one helluva' Introvert and just can't bring him/herself to ring
the bell. :)

Oh what the heck, I might as well get my shot in here too.

So either you have a veeeeery large front porch and the package was
lost for days and days, or... oh wait a minute, I see now that you
don't go out that door. So, you expect FedEx to "go over the hill and
thru the woods" and deliver to some special place from where you make
your egress at your house, sans instructions from you - either to Lee
Valley upon placement of order or by a note taped to door, or ??? You
think FedEx reads your mind, or that they deliver to special places at
everyone's house?

Then....

As you wait with baited breath for your urgent delivery, you don't
once think that it may be sitting on your FRONT porch. And, then you
let out a rant, bitching about LeeValley, which goes overboard on
customer service (try this same episode with another vendor). Here's
an idea - back up and say, "geeze, I'm sorry, I f&^^k'd up and didn't
THINK!

(Now,(for example) if you have some interesting set up where you have
an alley behind your house and everyone routinely makes deliveries
back there, I take back a _part_ of my rant at you)

Renata

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:42:56 -0500, Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mr. Vogel, you are partly correct. I did place the order by telephone. I did assume
>it would arrive in due course which I have learned to expect from previous shipments
>to me from Lee Valley. Since the order did not arrive by the time I needed the two
>items, I used other tools in my shop to complete the project. Ergo, the ordered items
>were no longer needed. I never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong. I did state
>that I was extremely disappointed with Lee Valley. That is water over the dam, so to
>speak. I never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. My original posting was what
>I thought, at that time, to be wrong and stated the facts as I then thought them to
>be. Just this morning did I find the shipment from Lee Valley on my front porch. At
>most, I will go out of my front doors onto that front porch perhaps every other
>month. Rob Lee and I have had several exchanges of e-mails. I feel in my heart that
>Rob Lee and I are on the same wavelength in this matter.
>
>Mr. Vogel, if I have not answered your questions, please reply in kind.
>
>Hoyt Weathers
>
>"Dennis [email protected]" wrote:
>
>> A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
>> I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
>> for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
>> a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
>> would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
>> you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
>> late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
>> Valley do wrong?
>>
>> Dennis Vogel
>>
>> "Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
>> complete on
>> > schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
>> method would be
>> > the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
>> needed the
>> > items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
>> project in order
>> > to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
>> have informed
>> > Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>> >
>> > I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
>> communication
>> > of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
>> in this
>> > situation and have told them so.
>> >
>> > In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
>> Valley. That
>> > method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
>> Someone flubbed
>> > up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
>> telephone
>> > order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
>> that person
>> > needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>

Tim Douglass <[email protected]> writes:

>FedEx once delivered a *handgun* to me by leaving it sitting on the
>front porch. It was clearly labeled that it could only be delivered
>upon proof of identity, FFL and adult signature. They just dumped it
>and ran. I found it when I got home from work about 7:00 that night,
>who know when they dropped it off. Around here the only time they seem
>to try to get a sig. is if the item is insured. UPS is much better
>than FedEx that way in my experience, at least where I live now.

I've had UPS drop off a package at the front door and not even ring the
doorbell when I was sitting in the living room. Heck, once I was standing
out on my driveway and saw the guy pull up. He proceeded to put the
packages on the step and didn't even have me sign for it.

I'm pretty sure some of those packages were insured.

Brian Elfert

"Ken Muldrew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The FedEx report is indeed incorrect in
> > that no person signed for the delivery.
>
> That seems to be the case. Also, they claimed to have delivered it on
> the 11th; I believe you dispute this as well.


Ken, want me to find you a dead horse and you can beat on it for a
while?

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:06:57 -0400, "Dennis [email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> You should know that you have to check outside your
>> door for packages in strange places whenever you are
>> expecting a package to be left, Hoyt.
>
>Gotta agree with this one. I know when I order stuff
>from LV I look every day. Hell, two or three times a
>day. I get antsy and can't wait for my goodies to arrive.
>To me it seems strange to not look and pace and pace
>and look waiting for my toys to arrive. Oh well. I guess
>it's just me. ;-)

Nah...not just you, Dennis! Its a guy thing! lol

I seem to have most stuff sent to me by UPS...and most of the vendors
nowadays send a confirming email...with a link to the UPS site...and
my order number. So I track most orders from day one.

I have my UPS driver's cell phone number. If I'm really ansy, I'll
call him and see if I can meet him somewhere on his route. If he has
time (around lunch, etc.) I even treat.

I know by the tracking number when the package is gonna be delivered.
So if I know that I'm gonna miss the delivery for sure...and its a
valuable delivery...I try to run him down...or tell him exactly where
to put it.

UPS is your friend! lol


Hope ya'll have a nice week...

Trent


Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

Well good for you to acknowledge what really happened here Hoyt. I
suspected that we would never hear from you again after your first post.
BUT, since you were totally aware that FedEX has a bad habit of leaving
packages just outside your door with no notification to anyone, whose fault
was it that some one did not check to see if this had happened again? When
I have this type of problem I Always consider what I could have done wrong
first and then find out what really happened.

Anyway, perhaps your future posts will be better received and enjoyed by the
group.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:26:56 -0400, Phil <[email protected]> wrote:

>The advantages of living in a small village. The UPS and FedEx drivers
>flag me down if I'm passing them on the road and they have a package.
>If not they just put it in the house (never need to lock the doors) and
>when a package shows up at the Post Office they call to let me know it's
>there.
>
>And...I'm only a day away from Lee Valley!!!!!
>
>Phil

Ahhhh...it takes a village! lol


Hope ya'll have a nice week...

Trent


Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:18:52 -0400, "Robin Lee" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hoyt -
>
>Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system, and
>it shows:
>
>Order placed Sept 4th
>Order shipped Sept 5th
>Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according to
>FedEx
>
>Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping information
>(when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not usually
>any further contact than that...
>
>Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
>original shipping, and return postage.
>
>
>Sincerely -
>
>Rob Lee
>President
>Lee Valley Tools Ltd.

Now THAT'S a company worth dealing with!!

*I* sure in the hell wouldn't give him his money back! lol


Hope ya'll have a nice week...

Trent


Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

Hoyt,

I'm quite willing to note you bad experience along with the many positive
experiences posted regarding Lee Valley. However, my perception of your
attitude, particularly in your response to Leon helps me assign a relevant
weighting factor to your experience.

You seem quite defensive; I did not notice anyone asking for a retraction.

Leon's post made no comment regarding the acceptability of your post, nor
did I think he was challenging your post. Just as you were informing the
group of your particular problem with Lee Valley, Leon was putting your
problem in context of the many positive posts about Lee Valley. His comment
about you being the first person that he has heard of with such a problem
could easily be a statement of fact and does not appear (to me) to be a
challenge to your post. Although you do not acknowledge Leon's comments as
useful, I think Leon did add two useful points to your post: (1) a greater
context of all Lee Valley experiences posted and (2) tips on how someone
could help themselves from experiencing the same problem you did.

As far as you looking for sympathy, I think it is reasonable for someone to
have reached that conclusion based on your original post. However, Leon's
comment about sympathy can also be taken as a simple statement of his
opinion and does not directly suggest that you were looking for sympathy.
In this context you could be accused of making a WIDE and faulty jump when
you suggested that Leon suggested you were looking for sympathy. :-)

In closing, I would suggest that you re-read the posts by Leon and yourself
and ask yourself how your posts came across and whether that it how you
meant for them to come across. I think that the last line of your original
post could apply equally well to you: "At the very least, that person needs
some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done."

Best Regards,
BadgerDog

P.S. Are you the Hoyt Weathers that was an engineer for NASA?




"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told
the truth
> of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my
project
> completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word
of what I
> said because it is true.
>
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?
>
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
> sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
> order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
> reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
> leap!
>
> Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from
the far
> left bleachers.
>
> Hoyt Weathers
>
> Leon wrote:
>
> > Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that
is
> > disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
> > Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
> > gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
> > I don't think you will get much sympathy here.
>

"Trent©" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Many of the guys on
here get the same delivery guy most of the
> time...and probably don't even know his/her first name!
>
> Turn the 'delivery guy' into a person...and you'd be surprised how
> great the service can be.

I agree with this 100%. I've gotten to know the UPS deliver woman that
usually comes to my area and when she rings up and I'm not home, she always
tries a neighbour I know that lives in the same building. It's saved my ass
more than a few times.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:43:09 GMT, Ward Cleaver
<[email protected]> pixelated:

>>>ROFLMAO
>>>Larry, if you are refering to "Bailiff, whack his
>>>p__ p__" your age is truly showing. I haven't heard
>>>that in 15 or 20 years. I got a good laugh out of it.
>>
>> That was exactly what I referred to, thanks.

>Glad to see there are still some of us out there that
>remember the classics.

Better pull your mukluks out of the cellophane before
the scorch.

-
Interpreted Interpolations Done Dirt Cheap.
-----------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

Michael Baglio <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:03:42 -0500, Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]>
> wrote:
Get a post office box. You will not have any doubts about where your
package is! After UPS and FEDEX both hung medicine packages on my
rural mail box that is a quarter mile from house, I gave up. I guess
the red flag signed for them. I wonder how much the theives got for a
three months supply of codeine pain pills. Bill

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:51:06 GMT, "Sam Krenov" <[email protected]>
pixelated:

>
>"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:50 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
>> pixelated:
>>
>> >Hoyt,
>> >
>> >A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something
>against
>> >LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing.
>>
>> It's a good thing that they took him to task or it's a good thing that
>> he posted his gripe? 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
>> clarity, sir.
>>
>> See how grammar counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and girls?
>>
>
>Did you read the rest of the message? It's quite clear if you continue
>reading.
>
>See how common sense counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and
>girls?

Begone, troll.



-
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.
---
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

The real bummer part about all this is not only will Rob lose a sale through
no fault of his own, but now he'll grant a full refund on the original
purchase, including the freight and he'll eat it with a smile on his face. I
s'pose sooner or later it'll transpire to higher costs for Rob resulting in
a higher retail price. At the end of the day Hoyt doesn't get a new "toy"
for the shop and feels compelled to take time and gas out of his budget to
"deliver" the package back to Fed Ex, Rob gets to demonstrate their attitude
for customer service and all of us will shake our heads at the whole thing
at the same time we're aware that it could have happened to any of us yet
knowing the "good guys" took another one.....

sigh.....

Rob

http://www.robswoodworking.com



"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You seem to have gotten in on this thread rather late Mr. Muldrew. It was
only this
> morning that I *received* the package. This morning, I took the unopened
package to FedEx
> Freight which is less than one mile from my home. That office arranged to
have FedEx
> Ground pick up the package and deliver it to Lee Valley. Mr. Robin Lee has
been fully
> informed of this transaction as it stands to this minute. There are other
pertinent
> postings on this topic if you care to read them. The FedEx report is
indeed incorrect in
> that no person signed for the delivery. Also, I did not tell a falsehood.
>
<snipped>

Assuming that you're not just trolling, I have to ask: did you ever
try calling them to check on the status of your order? If they did
indeed screw up (they're only human, after all) they would have had a
chance to fix up what was wrong and chances are they would have done
so.

Before I posted such a sweeping criticism of any company, I would at
least take that simple step.


On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:27:08 -0500, Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
>schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
>the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
>items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project in order
>to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have informed
>Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
>I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other communication
>of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley in this
>situation and have told them so.
>
>In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley. That
>method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone flubbed
>up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the telephone
>order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least, that person
>needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
>Woody

-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.


This is sort of contradictory. You say it was screwed up and you told them
you are going to refuse the order. That means you have been in contact with
them about the order. So, was it shipped? If so, when? By what carrier?


>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Possible. What did they tell you when you called to complain? Surely you
did inquire about the particular order and they either told you they had it,
when it shipped, and how, OR, they did screw up and lose your order. Come
on now, tell us what they said. Was your credit card charged?

As for attitude adjustment, that is BS. Attitude has nothing to do with a
piece of paper falling behind the desk either in the order department or the
shipping department. I doubt very much that the order take decided to shit
can your order just for laughs.

Are you blaming LV for the delay when it has been sitting at the post office
for a week? Or the UPS guy could not find your house?

I have no doubt that you placed an order. I have no doubt that you did not
receive it. BUT, you also said you told them you were going to refuse it.
That means you are not telling the whole story. What did they say when you
called? You sure leave a lot of details out here for the jury to come to a
verdict.

Sorry Hoyt, but while you may be po'd at LV, the story is not complete. Not
one person reading this is going to change the way they do business on
account of it as our own experiences are so good. I've yet to find a
company that is as personable, honest, and offers such a superb guarantee of
satisfaction. They even refund shipping cost both ways. Does Home Depot
give you gas money when you make a return?

We want to know "the rest of the story".
Ed

Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>To Robin Lee:
>
>I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the
> door. FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone
> in my home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who signed
> for the package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the unopened
> package, I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to Lee
> Valley for refund credit to my account.
>
>I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I caused
>over this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

Hoyt -- good to see your apology. Many folks aren't big enough to do that.

And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some of
the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred dollars
was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was signed
for by "F. Rontdoor" !!

http://tinyurl.com/nepl

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

In all fairness.... the order could have been misdirected after it left Lee
Valley, by whatever carrier. They may have done everything
right...sometimes stuff just happens. Did you call when you didn't get the
order in a reasonable time? Or did you wait and fume and get madder'n
madder? Maybe if you would have called and "hey, my order's not here", they
could have had the option to jet a duplicate out to you. Was this your
first order with them?
Invoices DO get lost. I personally try to not box myself in a corner so
that a delay in delivery won't upset the karma of everything. I always call
my customer and explain that there may be a problem, with delivery of
supplies or tools and they are always understanding.
I have always had excellent service from Lee Valley..
Perry
bentcajungirl
"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
> items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
> to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
> Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.
>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
> Woody
>

In article <[email protected]>, "mttt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>> >To Robin Lee:
>> >
>> And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some
>of
>> the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred
>dollars
>> was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was
>signed
>> for by "F. Rontdoor" !!
>
>Yeah - but I'm admittedly very hypocritical on this. When I'm not home and
>want the package, I want them to just leave it. My neighborhood is good,
>nothing every gets ripped off.
>
>So I'm 80% OK with "F.Rontdoor" signing for me...
>
I hope they don't do this with "signature required" shipments.

The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the time.
The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Yo, Hoyt.
Your original post says "two weeks ago". Actual order was made the 4th.
Not two weeks. The package was delivered to your location in one week.
In another post, you stated that Fed Ex had a habit of leaving packages in
that location, unsigned for. Why were you not on the lookout?
It sounds to me like the project was going kaplooey and the "urgency" of
receiving this order just fueled whatever frustration was going on.
Sounds to me like you got your panties in a knot and HAVE to be upset with
someone.....IMO you don't need to be upset with Lee Valley OR Fed Ex. They
did their jobs.
When I am waiting on an important delivery, I leave a note taped to the door
with instructions for the driver WAY in advance of expected delivery.
"leave on back porch, etc." And the I CHECK EVERY DAY....doh. It's really
not fair to downfault anyone when so many resources are at your
fingertips...tracking numbers, etc.
Perry
"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You seem to have gotten in on this thread rather late Mr. Muldrew. It was
only this
> morning that I *received* the package. This morning, I took the unopened
package to FedEx
> Freight which is less than one mile from my home. That office arranged to
have FedEx
> Ground pick up the package and deliver it to Lee Valley. Mr. Robin Lee has
been fully
> informed of this transaction as it stands to this minute. There are other
pertinent
> postings on this topic if you care to read them. The FedEx report is
indeed incorrect in
> that no person signed for the delivery. Also, I did not tell a falsehood.
>
> Ken Muldrew wrote:
>
> > Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying
to complete on
> > >schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> > >the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.
> >
> > According to FedEx (see post from Rob Lee) the order was received
> > exactly one week after you made the telephone call. In a reply to
> > Leon, you go on about how you're telling the truth. Could you please
> > confirm that the FedEx report is mistaken? Otherwise, you should
> > apologize for lying and complaining about what was actually good
> > service (1 week delivery for a phone order).
> >
> > Ken Muldrew
> > [email protected]
>

Hoyt:

If as you say FedEx has a "habit" of leaving packages outside of your door,
it seems that you should develop the habit of checking there before leveling
a complaint as you have here. My 2 cents.

Paul


"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To Robin Lee:
>
> I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside
the door.
> FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to
anyone in my
> home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who
signed for the
> package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the
unopened package,
> I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to
Lee Valley
> for refund credit to my account.
>
> I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I
caused over
> this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.
>
> Sincerely,
> Hoyt Weathers
>
>
> Robin Lee wrote:
>
> > Hoyt -
> >
> > Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system,
and
> > it shows:
> >
> > Order placed Sept 4th
> > Order shipped Sept 5th
> > Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according
to
> > FedEx
> >
> > Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping
information
> > (when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not
usually
> > any further contact than that...
> >
> > Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
> > original shipping, and return postage.
> >
> > Sincerely -
> >
> > Rob Lee
> > President
> > Lee Valley Tools Ltd.
> >
> > "Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying
to
> > complete on
> > > schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
> > method would be
> > > the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
> > needed the
> > > items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
> > project in order
> > > to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive
and
> > have informed
> > > Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
> > >
> > > I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
> > communication
> > > of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee
Valley
> > in this
> > > situation and have told them so.
> > >
> > > In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
> > Valley. That
> > > method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
> > Someone flubbed
> > > up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then
the
> > telephone
> > > order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very
least,
> > that person
> > > needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
> > >
> > > Woody
> > >
>

Probably more of a classic than you realize... I first heard the PP joke in
1974.


"Ward Cleaver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >>ROFLMAO
> >>Larry, if you are refering to "Bailiff, whack his
> >>p__ p__" your age is truly showing. I haven't heard
> >>that in 15 or 20 years. I got a good laugh out of it.
> >
> > That was exactly what I referred to, thanks.
> >
> > -
> > Interpreted Interpolations Done Dirt Cheap.
> > -----------
> > http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
> >
>
> Glad to see there are still some of us out there that
> remember the classics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Hoyt but YOU did write the following, did you not?



snip

" The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee
Valley in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley.

That method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to
me. Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then
the telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody"

so, to paraphrase you, they are "untrustworthy", "someone flubbed up
royally...", "that person needs some serious attitude adjustments..."

NOW you say that you never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong!! and
that you never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. Have I suddenly
been struck by the inability to understand plain English? Seems to me
you laid the blame solely at the feet of Lee Valley for the "late" delivery.

Just accept your mistakes rather than try to weasel out of what you
originally said. Leave that to the politicians.

dave



Hoyt Weathers wrote:

> Mr. Vogel, you are partly correct. I did place the order by telephone. I did assume
> it would arrive in due course which I have learned to expect from previous shipments
> to me from Lee Valley. Since the order did not arrive by the time I needed the two
> items, I used other tools in my shop to complete the project. Ergo, the ordered items
> were no longer needed. I never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong. I did state
> that I was extremely disappointed with Lee Valley. That is water over the dam, so to
> speak. I never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. My original posting was what
> I thought, at that time, to be wrong and stated the facts as I then thought them to
> be. Just this morning did I find the shipment from Lee Valley on my front porch. At
> most, I will go out of my front doors onto that front porch perhaps every other
> month. Rob Lee and I have had several exchanges of e-mails. I feel in my heart that
> Rob Lee and I are on the same wavelength in this matter.
>
> Mr. Vogel, if I have not answered your questions, please reply in kind.
>
> Hoyt Weathers
>
> "Dennis [email protected]" wrote:
>
>
>>A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
>>I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
>>for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
>>a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
>>would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
>>you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
>>late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
>>Valley do wrong?
>>
>>Dennis Vogel
>>
>>"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
>>
>>complete on
>>
>>>schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
>>
>>method would be
>>
>>>the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
>>
>>needed the
>>
>>>items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
>>
>>project in order
>>
>>>to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
>>
>>have informed
>>
>>>Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>>>
>>>I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
>>
>>communication
>>
>>>of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
>>
>>in this
>>
>>>situation and have told them so.
>>>
>>>In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
>>
>>Valley. That
>>
>>>method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
>>
>>Someone flubbed
>>
>>>up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
>>
>>telephone
>>
>>>order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
>>
>>that person
>>
>>>needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
>

Larry Jaques wrote in rec.woodworking

snip
> 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
> clarity, sir.
>

ROFLMAO
Larry, if you are refering to "Bailiff, whack his
p__ p__" your age is truly showing. I haven't heard
that in 15 or 20 years. I got a good laugh out of it.

>>ROFLMAO
>>Larry, if you are refering to "Bailiff, whack his
>>p__ p__" your age is truly showing. I haven't heard
>>that in 15 or 20 years. I got a good laugh out of it.
>
> That was exactly what I referred to, thanks.
>
> -
> Interpreted Interpolations Done Dirt Cheap.
> -----------
> http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
>

Glad to see there are still some of us out there that
remember the classics.

Yeah, I still have that Cheech and Chong album in my collection.
I just love old vinyl.



Leon wrote in rec.woodworking

> Probably more of a classic than you realize... I first heard the PP
> joke in 1974.
>
>
> "Ward Cleaver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >>ROFLMAO
>> >>Larry, if you are refering to "Bailiff, whack his
>> >>p__ p__" your age is truly showing. I haven't heard
>> >>that in 15 or 20 years. I got a good laugh out of it.
>> >
>> > That was exactly what I referred to, thanks.

Hoyt,

A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something against
LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing. No-one should be made to feel
intimidated to post their experiences, good or bad. Most of us who've dealt
with LV know this is likely to be an aberration and fixed fairly quickly,
the company is simply the best out there. Being the best, it doesn't
necessarily follow that they're perfect; as I am sure Robin Lee would agree.

A hallmark of a great company is not in never making a mistake, it lies in
how it handles the situation after the inevitable mistakes are made. LV are
a great company, give them a little time.

cheers,

Greg

PS I have ordered some items from here in Australia and received them in
good time and condition, better, in fact, than some local companies manage.

I'm thinking somebody is needing an upping of their meds.

UA100, off to continue debunking the lumber car...

"bentcajungirl" <[email protected]> wrote in message...
> Sounds to me like you got your panties in a knot

You are soooooooooooooooooo hot!!!

Hell, I'LL take the blame if this thread will die!

(I know...I'm contributing to it's longevity. Don't get nitpicky...)

dave

Unisaw A100 wrote:

>>The blame goes to FedEx alone.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank God we have someone to blame.

Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.
>FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone in my
>home.

I get stuff from FedEx and UPS all the time like that. I consider it
a good thing that they leave it because it saves me the hassle of
having to go to their depot to pick it up. Just tell the shipper to
request "signature required" service and they won't leave stuff
unattended anymore.

> The blame goes to FedEx alone.

You're still looking for somebody to blame. Get a life.

A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
Valley do wrong?

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
> items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
> to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
> Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.
>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You should know that you have to check outside your
> door for packages in strange places whenever you are
> expecting a package to be left, Hoyt.

Gotta agree with this one. I know when I order stuff
from LV I look every day. Hell, two or three times a
day. I get antsy and can't wait for my goodies to arrive.
To me it seems strange to not look and pace and pace
and look waiting for my toys to arrive. Oh well. I guess
it's just me. ;-)

Dennis Vogel

Wow. Coulda fooled me. I read nothing but contempt
for Lee Valley's phone order system, order handling
and shipment notification. Glad you cleared it up, though.

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mr. Vogel, you are partly correct. I did place the order by telephone. I
did assume
> it would arrive in due course which I have learned to expect from previous
shipments
> to me from Lee Valley. Since the order did not arrive by the time I needed
the two
> items, I used other tools in my shop to complete the project. Ergo, the
ordered items
> were no longer needed. I never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong. I
did state
> that I was extremely disappointed with Lee Valley. That is water over the
dam, so to
> speak. I never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. My original
posting was what
> I thought, at that time, to be wrong and stated the facts as I then
thought them to
> be. Just this morning did I find the shipment from Lee Valley on my front
porch. At
> most, I will go out of my front doors onto that front porch perhaps every
other
> month. Rob Lee and I have had several exchanges of e-mails. I feel in my
heart that
> Rob Lee and I are on the same wavelength in this matter.
>
> Mr. Vogel, if I have not answered your questions, please reply in kind.
>
> Hoyt Weathers
>
> "Dennis [email protected]" wrote:
>
> > A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
> > I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
> > for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
> > a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
> > would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
> > you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
> > late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
> > Valley do wrong?
> >
> > Dennis Vogel
> >
> > "Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying
to
> > complete on
> > > schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
> > method would be
> > > the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
> > needed the
> > > items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
> > project in order
> > > to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive
and
> > have informed
> > > Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
> > >
> > > I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
> > communication
> > > of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee
Valley
> > in this
> > > situation and have told them so.
> > >
> > > In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
> > Valley. That
> > > method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
> > Someone flubbed
> > > up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then
the
> > telephone
> > > order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very
least,
> > that person
> > > needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>

"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've had UPS drop off a package at the front door and not even ring the
> doorbell when I was sitting in the living room. Heck, once I was standing
> out on my driveway and saw the guy pull up. He proceeded to put the
> packages on the step and didn't even have me sign for it.
>
> I'm pretty sure some of those packages were insured.

Does "insured" mean a signature is required? I thought
"insured" meant "insured" and "signature required"
meant "signature required". Silly me. ;-)

Dennis Vogel

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:54:18 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, "mttt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>> >To Robin Lee:
>>> >
>>> And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some
>>of
>>> the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred
>>dollars
>>> was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was
>>signed
>>> for by "F. Rontdoor" !!
>>
>>Yeah - but I'm admittedly very hypocritical on this. When I'm not home and
>>want the package, I want them to just leave it. My neighborhood is good,
>>nothing every gets ripped off.
>>
>>So I'm 80% OK with "F.Rontdoor" signing for me...
>>
>I hope they don't do this with "signature required" shipments.
>
>The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the time.
>The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.

The world is changing...get used to it!

You got the PACKAGE, didn't ya? Maybe he didn't have time to talk
about the wife and kids.

My mail gets delivered every day...and sometimes includes important
stuff. The mailperson never rings the doorbell.

USPS delivers by putting the package on the porch near the mail box.
They also never ring the bell.

FedEx just drops the package off...unless the sender requires a
signature.

Same with UPS. But the UPS driver always toots his horn as he drives
up to my place. He knows that if I'm in, I'll come out and sign for
him.

The purpose of package delivery is package delivery. If its
workin'...its workin'.


Hope ya'll have a nice week...

Trent


Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well good for you to acknowledge what really happened here Hoyt. I
> suspected that we would never hear from you again after your first post.
> BUT, since you were totally aware that FedEX has a bad habit of leaving
> packages just outside your door with no notification to anyone, whose
fault
> was it that some one did not check to see if this had happened again?
When
> I have this type of problem I Always consider what I could have done wrong
> first and then find out what really happened.

This is an easy problem to solve. FedEx had a database for each delivery
point they have used. In my case, the driver can look at his board and see
where the package is to be left if no one is home. They have not missed yet
since this started about a year ago. Call them or tell the drive next time
you get a delivery. Then all you have to do is check that spot every day if
you are expecting a delivery.
Ed

It you _really_ want the "TRUTH", especially of what others see when you
decide to publicly play victim and whine, simply count the number of "i"s in
your original post.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/13/03


"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
> I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told
the truth
> of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my
project
> completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word
of what I
> said because it is true.
>
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?
>
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
> sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
> order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
> reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
> leap!
>
> Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from
the far
> left bleachers.
>
> Hoyt Weathers
>
> Leon wrote:
>
> > Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that
is
> > disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
> > Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
> > gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
> > I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

>>>Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method
would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed
the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project
in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have
informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley.
That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone
flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.<<<

>

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?
>
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
> sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
> order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
> reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
> leap!

I took your original statement as is, that Lee Valley Tools accidentally
screwed up an order. It's unfortunate, but it happens. However, it didn't
take very long for you to immerse yourself into an attacking stance when
someone questioned what you had to say. Already, you appear to be obsessing
over this which takes the light off of Lee Valley and focuses it on you.
Next time, try shooting yourself in the foot, it's easier and faster.

Im sure Lee Valley will really miss you...........

--
Knowledge speaks, wisdom listen.....
Jimi Hendrix
"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
> items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
> to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
> Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.
>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
> Woody
>

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> <snip>. Have I suddenly
> been struck by the inability to understand plain English?

No, nothing sudden about it. You don't seem to have had that ability
since you started posting here.

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In reply to the posting by Sam Krenov, I will reply to Mr. Muldrew. Mr.
Muldrew, I do
> not dispute the date FedEx records show to be the delivery date. It was
found by me
> only this morning, the 15th of September. I think the actual delivery was
when I
> picked up the package from the floor of my front porch.

I was thinking that maybe you just needed a cool down period to regain
composure and reasonable thinking.. but Geeeesss I would expect that
explanation of delivery time from my 10 year old son but now that he is 16
even he knows that that crap for an excuse does not fly.

I suspect Hoyt, that you find it hard to accept responsibility.


> From a technical and legal
> point of view, I never officially accepted delivery. I took it, unopened,
to my local
> FedEx Freight office this morning and they now have custody of it.

Yeah, use that analogy to explain to the judge why you did not show up for a
jury summons. It is your responsibility to look out for yourself and be
mature enough to take the initiative to do so.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:50 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
pixelated:

>Hoyt,
>
>A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something against
>LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing.

It's a good thing that they took him to task or it's a good thing that
he posted his gripe? 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
clarity, sir.

See how grammar counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and girls?


-
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.
---
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

I have NO trouble understanding you.

Plonk

dave

Sam Krenov wrote:

> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>><snip>. Have I suddenly
>> been struck by the inability to understand plain English?
>
>
> No, nothing sudden about it. You don't seem to have had that ability
> since you started posting here.
>
>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:30:20 GMT, Ward Cleaver
<[email protected]> pixelated:

>Larry Jaques wrote in rec.woodworking
>
>snip
>> 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
>> clarity, sir.
>>
>
>ROFLMAO
>Larry, if you are refering to "Bailiff, whack his
>p__ p__" your age is truly showing. I haven't heard
>that in 15 or 20 years. I got a good laugh out of it.

That was exactly what I referred to, thanks.

-
Interpreted Interpolations Done Dirt Cheap.
-----------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

In article <[email protected]>,
Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:

> I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply
> told the truth of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley
> because I needed my project completed. Let the dust settle where it
> will. I will not retract one word of what I said because it is true.
>
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
> group?
>
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was
> looking for sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the
> particulars of a specific order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less
> and nothing more. You had absolutely no reason to challenge my
> posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying leap!
>
> Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static
> from the far left bleachers.

I sure hope you have a strong crash helmet and good insurance. You're
going to need both when you fall off your high horse and that chip on
your shoulder hits someone nearby.

Nobody doubts your statement that you placed an order and have not
received it. What people have been trying to tell you is (1) none of us,
not even Lee Valley, is perfect and (2) if you had talked to the
management at Lee Valley as soon as possible, you would now be praising
Lee Valley instead of complaining. By the way, your assumption that on a
telephone order, Lee Valley would use the fastest possible shipping
method was a bad assumption. Most businesses have a regular shipping
method that is used unless the customer specifies otherwise. It was YOUR
responsibility to inquire about shipping when you placed your order.

However, the most important message that people are trying to get
through what seems to be an extraordinarily thick skull is that of ALL
the business entreprises that do mail orders, Lee Valley is near or at
the top of custormer service.

For example, a year or so ago, they had one of their house tools
redesigned because of a problem in the original design. Without any
obligation whatsoever, they shipped a replacement tool to EVERY buyer of
the original design for whom the had an address.

Just last week, someone in this group mentioned that they received a
"surprise" cheque in the mail from Lee Valley to refund them the
difference between that they had paid for a recent order and the new,
lower price that had just come into effect for that item. I know a few
places that do that IF you are aware of the change and ask for an
adjustment but I don't know of any others that send out cheques in such
cases.

By the way, since Lee Valley (and most other dealers) now process Web
orders just as quickly as phone orders (and since I don't have
exaggerated worries about placing an order on-line with a credit card),
I NEVER make phone orders anymore unless I need some special service or
information. With the web order, I get quick confirmation and a tracking
number.

Robin Lee, the President and General Manager of Lee Valley is the kind
of man who, in an emergency, would get in his personal car and hand
deliver you a tool if for some reason his people had screwed up your
order and you were nearby. Otherwise, if you had contacted him at the
earliest moment, he would have rushed your tool to you, probably at HIS
expense.

There are lots of merchants who deserve to be trashed and publicly
villified. Lee Valley is not one of them. That could change, of course,
but is not likely. People of real, proven integrity usually can be
counted on.

If as you say you plan never to order from them again, it is YOUR loss.
By the way, in other aspects of your life, are you the kind of person
who dump on other people whom you think have done you wrong without even
giving them the chance to defend themselves or to make amends? It is a
serious character flaw called "backbiting" (saying mean or malicious
things about someone who is not present).

If there ever is a next time (with Lee Valley or another supplier),
inform the supplier FIRST and then come tell us what you think about the
supplier. As a group, we're not much impressed with idle, gratuitous bad
mouthing of others.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

I love Lee Valley! They have always done me right. Great service; only
one that I know of shipping faster is Garrett-Wade.


On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:27:08 -0500, Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
>schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
>the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
>items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project in order
>to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have informed
>Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
>I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other communication
>of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley in this
>situation and have told them so.
>
>In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley. That
>method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone flubbed
>up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the telephone
>order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least, that person
>needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
>Woody

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:10:06 -0400, "Dennis [email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I've had UPS drop off a package at the front door and not even ring the
>> doorbell when I was sitting in the living room. Heck, once I was standing
>> out on my driveway and saw the guy pull up. He proceeded to put the
>> packages on the step and didn't even have me sign for it.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure some of those packages were insured.
>
>Does "insured" mean a signature is required? I thought
>"insured" meant "insured" and "signature required"
>meant "signature required". Silly me. ;-)

Most of the time insured packages have a signature required for proof
to the insurance company that the package was delivered intact. Not
always the case, but unless it is something cheap a responsible
shipper will (should) require a signature. Insurance fraud is pretty
easy on shipments because it's easy to say you never got the package
and hard to prove you did.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:03:42 -0500, Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]>
wrote:

>To Robin Lee:
>
>I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.
>FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone in my
>home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who signed for the
>package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the unopened package,
>I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to Lee Valley
>for refund credit to my account.

Most shippers have a "Driver Release" policy. The shipper must
specify that a signature is required so this doesn't happen.

It's quite common in my 'hood.

Maybe you're going a bit overboard with this?

Barry

We live a short half block from a middle school, formerly Jr High, and
get prescription meds via USPS left on the doorstep with NO ringing of
the doorbell. USPS doesn't want to initiate a standing order to ring
the doorbell that is all of 15" from mail slot. I've thanked those
that have the initiative to do this out of respect (or whatever)
trying to encourage the courtesy practice. UPS packages have been
left behind a plant near the door or under the mat but USPS stuff is
merely dropped ON the mat.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:15:21 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:

>I learned that particular lesson the hard way, too. I
>called UPS and they said the box had been left on my back
>porch 2 days before. After scrounging around for 5 minutes,
>I found a small box hidden between the 2 trash cans. I now
>look on all porches before calling the delivery people or
>source company and I blush less because of it. ;)

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:36:13 GMT, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:

>Kevin Craig wrote:
>
><snipped>
>
>> You should hear the horror stories on the collector mailing lists:
>> valuable firearms delivered without signature, left outside in the
>> weather on the back deck, reported "stolen in transit" to the BATF,
>> only to be discovered as a rusty mess some weeks later. Or (worse),
>> propped up against the front door in full view of the street. I've
>> opened the front door for my kids' friends dropping over after school,
>> only to discover 1,400 rounds of 8mm rifle ammunition "hidden" under
>> the welcome mat (it's rather like hiding a bus under your living room
>> rug).
>
>I guess my delivery guy is more conscientious than yours. I had an order for
>approx. $2,000 worth of computer parts delivered while it was raining. He didn't
>want to leave it on the front porch or exposed to the rain. Several days later,
>after "not receiving" the order, I called and was informed it had been delivered
>to the back deck. After not being able to find the package, I opened the lid on
>my gas grill. There was the package. I'm glad I wasn't in the mood for a steak
>between the time the package was delivered and me finding it.

Many of the guys on here get the same delivery guy most of the
time...and probably don't even know his/her first name!

Turn the 'delivery guy' into a person...and you'd be surprised how
great the service can be.

Oh...and just like YOU, he/she has a bad day occasionally, too. If
his bad day is your delivery day...oh, well! lol


Hope ya'll have a nice week...

Trent


Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

"Hollywood" <[email protected]> wrote in message

I must have missed something, I've never had many dealings with FedEx. Do
they routinely 'sign'
> for a package that is undeliverable? If not, who signed for the package?
>
> I know UPS requires a printed name and a signature. Perhaps, if it is
convenient and not
> breaking any laws, Rob could let us know what signature appears on the
manifest.

No, actually UPS does not require a signature. I have UPS deliveries where
the driver rings the door bell, leaves, and leaves the package on the door
step. I think they are more likely to leave a low valued package with out a
signature than one that is insured beyond the automatic $100 minimum.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:30:23 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Hey Leon any more room on the bleachers? I suspect that Perry and I
>need a seat too. I get tracking numbers, and I've never had anything
>but great service from LV.

FWIW -- OP's tone was bit harsh for me as a general matter. And as for the
tone relative to LV, I have only a couple of experiences (both good) with
Lee Valley. Yet, consider the many posts here -- and I like this -- that
simply say things like, "I used finish X and it was good/bad", or "I tried
returning something to HF and here is what happened that pissed me off."
Those are SOP here. I also noticed (I think) that OP did not say that he
would never buy again from LV, just that he would never order again by
phone. Obviously, YMMV -- and re LV obviously it has -- but I think OP had
a legit point to make, w/ his own style, and he did. Again, FWIW.

And, BTW, I get royally pissed at a number of companies along the way, but
I never say "never again". If they have what I need, all things considered
-- even if I feel that they ripped me off the last time -- then I still
shop there if it suits my fancy. I just proceed a bit wiser (I hope) from
the past bad experiences. OTOH, I warn all my friends and if I can find
what I need elsewhere, then that is where I look first -- elsewhere. No
nose cutting and face spiting here.

"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:50 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
> pixelated:
>
> >Hoyt,
> >
> >A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something
against
> >LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing.
>
> It's a good thing that they took him to task or it's a good thing that
> he posted his gripe? 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
> clarity, sir.
>
> See how grammar counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and girls?
>

Did you read the rest of the message? It's quite clear if you continue
reading.

See how common sense counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and
girls?

> >> It's a good thing that they took him to task or it's a good thing
that
> >> he posted his gripe? 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
> >> clarity, sir.
> >>
> >> See how grammar counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and
girls?
> >>
> >
> >Did you read the rest of the message? It's quite clear if you
continue
> >reading.
> >
> >See how common sense counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and
> >girls?
>
> Begone, troll.
>

Said the kettle to the pot.

I would have to agree with Leon, I have placed orders over the phone, over
the web and shopped in person and never had a problem

--
David
1964 Karmann Ghia coupe
1998 Chev K1500
2000 Subaru Legacy GT
"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
> items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
> to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
> Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
>
> I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
> of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
> situation and have told them so.
>
> In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
> method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
> up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
> order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
> needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
>
> Woody
>

I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told the truth
of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my project
completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word of what I
said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying
leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the far
left bleachers.

Hoyt Weathers

Leon wrote:

> Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
> disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
> Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
> gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
> I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

"Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
> schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
> the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.

Have you called to confirm the order? There could be 100's of reasons why
you never received, none of them Lee Valley's fault! Until you confirm, I
would zip my lip!
Greg

To Robin Lee:

I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.
FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone in my
home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who signed for the
package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the unopened package,
I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to Lee Valley
for refund credit to my account.

I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I caused over
this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

Sincerely,
Hoyt Weathers


Robin Lee wrote:

> Hoyt -
>
> Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system, and
> it shows:
>
> Order placed Sept 4th
> Order shipped Sept 5th
> Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according to
> FedEx
>
> Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping information
> (when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not usually
> any further contact than that...
>
> Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
> original shipping, and return postage.
>
> Sincerely -
>
> Rob Lee
> President
> Lee Valley Tools Ltd.
>
> "Hoyt Weathers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
> complete on
> > schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
> method would be
> > the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
> needed the
> > items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
> project in order
> > to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
> have informed
> > Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
> >
> > I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
> communication
> > of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
> in this
> > situation and have told them so.
> >
> > In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
> Valley. That
> > method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
> Someone flubbed
> > up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
> telephone
> > order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
> that person
> > needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
> >
> > Woody
> >

In reply to the posting by Sam Krenov, I will reply to Mr. Muldrew. Mr. Muldrew, I do
not dispute the date FedEx records show to be the delivery date. It was found by me
only this morning, the 15th of September. I think the actual delivery was when I
picked up the package from the floor of my front porch. From a technical and legal
point of view, I never officially accepted delivery. I took it, unopened, to my local
FedEx Freight office this morning and they now have custody of it. I have told Rob
Lee this in much more detail than is stated here.

Hoyt Weathers

Sam Krenov wrote:

> "Ken Muldrew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > The FedEx report is indeed incorrect in
> > > that no person signed for the delivery.
> >
> > That seems to be the case. Also, they claimed to have delivered it on
> > the 11th; I believe you dispute this as well.
>
> Ken, want me to find you a dead horse and you can beat on it for a
> while?

as a matter of fact, Hoyt you won't find anyone more reasonable on the
Wreck than Leon. I suggest you take your bad attitude somewhere else,
as it isn't going to fly too far here. I can't comment on the merits of
Lee Valley as I haven't purchased from them yet, but I've read nothing
but good things about them. I wonder if your communication skills are
up to par?

dave

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

> I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told the truth
> of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my project
> completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word of what I
> said because it is true.
>
> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?
>
> You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for
> sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific
> order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had absolutely no
> reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying
> leap!
>
> Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the far
> left bleachers.
>
> Hoyt Weathers
>
> Leon wrote:
>
>
>>Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
>>disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
>> Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
>>gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
>> I don't think you will get much sympathy here.
>
>