"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:31:37 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>First, the clamping surface is bigger, which gives some obvious
advantages.
>
> Uh, well call me slow, but what are the obvious advantages? In all the
> years I've had K-Bodies I don't ever recall wishing I had a bigger
> clamping surface. So, there's no advantage there.
I've always been under the impression that being able to distribute clamping
pressure over a larger surface area is a good thing. Why do you use more
than just one clamp to edge glue a table top? The CM's jaws aren't just
wider, they're taller. Clearly a benefit.
>
> >Second, the clamp head on the cabinet master can be reversed and used
> >as a spreader. This will definitely come in handy, I'm sure.
>
> If I EVER have need of a spreader (undiscovered in >40 years of
> woodworking so far) I can go buy a CM or even one of the reversible
> QuickGrips. I don't have to base the acquisition of my entire clamping
> inventory on the ability to accomodate the extremely rare instance of
> needing a spreaing clamp. But apparently it's a feature that the
> marketing department can turn heads with. No advantage there.
>
> >The k-bodies cannot do this.
Well, I might have only been woodworking about 5 years, but I've already
used spreaders on several occassions. Sure, it isn't something I need every
day, but having good clamps that I could use in that capacity isn't a bad
thing, is it? I was merely pointing out that the CM have this ability,
something the k-bodies don't.
> >Third, the sliding head on the cabinet masters are slightly raised up
when
> >you sit the clamp on it's edge (the fixed clamp and the end fixture are
extended
> >slightly). This allows you to slide the clamp and then tighten without
having to
> >lift the clamp and the work. This is the biggest and most significant
advantage
> >of the cabinet masters relative to the k-bodies.
>
> I think you are talking about the little black thing on the end of the
> bar. If I ever needed that feature (which I haven't found the need for
> yet) I would just slip a piece of wood under the bar. Again, like the
> spreading, not a feature that gets a lot of use,
>
That is only part of it, and you're not understanding my description
entirely. With k-bodies, if you set your work on the bar and need to adjust
the clamp position, you have to lift the clamp and the workpiece. Most of
the time you can get the clamp close enough before you put the work down,
but I commonly have to move it. With heavy workpieces, or tricky alignment
issues, lifting the clamp to do this is difficult or causes the parts to
shift. The CM's allow you to slide the head without lifting anything.
Both ends (not just the black thingie side) are on the work surface, but the
sliding jaw isn't. I hope you can see what I mean.
> >I've heard reports that k-bodies can develop some "fatigue" in the
clamping
> >mechanism after years of use, whereby the lifting action you use to
tighten
> >the clamp begins to fail (I have not experienced this myself).
>
> Come on. I've been on the Wreck for a long time and I've been around
> other woodworking fora for a long time as well, not to mention the
> fact that I've been a K-Body owner for some time, as well. I have yet
> to hear the first such tale. Provide me a legitimate cite for such an
> instance. Of course, to back up your claim of "reports" (plural)
> you'll need more than one citation.
>
Ok, maybe "reports" was the wrong way to put it. Here's the link to what I
was talking about:
http://www.mikestools.com/Gross_Stabil_Pages/k_body.asp
As I said, I've never experienced this, and I concede this story is at a
merchant site, so who knows what motivation there is behind it.
>
> Well, I added up the "advantages" you cited, and I have yet to see
> that they are "clearly better clamps." And the sticking head is a
> hugely significant disadvantage.
>
> If all of you CM aficionados want to cast a blind eye to the flawed
> design and claim that the CM is a superior clamp to the K-Body, feel
> free. In the meantime, every time I take a K-Body off the assembly and
> let the head slide down to the fixed jaw as I walk it over to the rack
> I will think of you. See, that will conclude my use of the K-Body for
> that session. If you do that with a CM you're likely to still have
> several minutes with a screwdriver ahead of you. That's a fact.
>
> When I said "Cabinet Masters are an inferior product," I meant that
> Cabinet Masters may be decent clamps but they have a design flaw that
> renders them inferior to the competition. I stand by that sentiment.
I understand the sticking head problem, and I agree it can be a problem for
the CM. That being said, it seems to happen in two main ways. 1) someone
is trying to cause the lock just to see for themselves if it really happens
and 2) someone misuses the clamp (i.e. drops it on the floor or let's the
jaws slam together. I usually treat my clamps as well as my power tools,
and I've never dropped a k-body yet, so I don't see myself doing that with
the CM's.
Looking past this flaw in the CM, and comparing the actual PERFORMANCE of
the CM vs. the k-body for clamping purposes, the innovations that the CM
provides give it a clear edge in my book. But, hey, opinions are like
a$$holes, so we all should stock up on a lot of Scott towlet tissue hehe.
Mike
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:21:13 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Apparently they do as someone one has mentioned that already.
>'
Hmmm. One in a row. After what? Fifteen years in distribution?
Compared to dozens of instances with the CMs after less than two
years.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:15:33 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Yeah I am sure he is absolutely the only one that has that problem.
You can spin it however you want. K-Bodies don't have that design
flaw. Cabinet Masters are an inferior product.
I'm done. I made my point.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:31:37 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:
It's not that I hate American Clamping or Jorgensen. I do have a bunch
of K-Bodies that I love and I know that Jorgensen is a well respected
brand of clamps and the only ones to buy if you get pipe clamps.
Having said that...
>I have 10 K-bodies, and now, thanks to woodcraft, 24 of the cabinet masters.
>Sure, if you get your clamp stuck it's a pain, but that doesn't make them an
>inferior product.
Uh, excuse me, but, yes it does. K-Bodies don't do that.
>If used properly, and I did a side-by-side comparison myself the other day,
>the cabinet masters have some clear advantages.
Well, let's discuss that.
>First, the clamping surface is bigger, which gives some obvious advantages.
Uh, well call me slow, but what are the obvious advantages? In all the
years I've had K-Bodies I don't ever recall wishing I had a bigger
clamping surface. So, there's no advantage there.
>I suppose there might be a few instances were a smaller clamp might be
>useful, but not very often.
That really doesn't mean anything. You're buying into the assertion
that the bigger clamping surface has some advantage, an undemonstrated
claim, and then turning it around to say that a clamping surface not
as big is some sort of handicap. Nonsense. No advantage there.
>Second, the clamp head on the cabinet master can be reversed and used
>as a spreader. This will definitely come in handy, I'm sure.
If I EVER have need of a spreader (undiscovered in >40 years of
woodworking so far) I can go buy a CM or even one of the reversible
QuickGrips. I don't have to base the acquisition of my entire clamping
inventory on the ability to accomodate the extremely rare instance of
needing a spreaing clamp. But apparently it's a feature that the
marketing department can turn heads with. No advantage there.
>The k-bodies cannot do this.
Nope, they can't. They can't open cans of tuna, either. That's about
as useful a feature as the spreading.
>Third, the sliding head on the cabinet masters are slightly raised up when
>you sit the clamp on it's edge (the fixed clamp and the end fixture are extended
>slightly). This allows you to slide the clamp and then tighten without having to
>lift the clamp and the work. This is the biggest and most significant advantage
>of the cabinet masters relative to the k-bodies.
I think you are talking about the little black thing on the end of the
bar. If I ever needed that feature (which I haven't found the need for
yet) I would just slip a piece of wood under the bar. Again, like the
spreading, not a feature that gets a lot of use,
>There have been DOZENS of instances when I was clamping with the
>k-body and had to adjust the clamp position and in doing so shifted the
>parts and had to screw around to align them again before applying clamping
>pressure. The cabinet masters are the clear winners in this regard.
I'll concede that for your purposes, that's apparently an important
feature, and in the sense that the CMs have them and the K-Bodies
don't, there is an advantage to the CM. Clear winner? That's a little
strong.
>Finally, the cabinet masters are made of JUST as good of materials as
>the k-bodies
That may be. They just don't go together the same way, which
apparently leads to the well known and widespread problem of head
seizures.
>and I see no reason why they won't hold up for just as long.
Actually, longevity has never been an argument for either, that I
recall.
>I've heard reports that k-bodies can develop some "fatigue" in the clamping
>mechanism after years of use, whereby the lifting action you use to tighten
>the clamp begins to fail (I have not experienced this myself).
Come on. I've been on the Wreck for a long time and I've been around
other woodworking fora for a long time as well, not to mention the
fact that I've been a K-Body owner for some time, as well. I have yet
to hear the first such tale. Provide me a legitimate cite for such an
instance. Of course, to back up your claim of "reports" (plural)
you'll need more than one citation.
>I only point this out to say that k-bodies aren't without fault.
I'll await your citations for the previous claim before I even
remotely concede that point.
>So, there you have it. They are both excellent clamps and work
>exceptionally well.
Except for the CMs and that head jamming thing.
>In sum comparison, however, I think the cabinet masters are clearly better
>clamps and contain not just superficial improvement to
>the k-bodies, but actual design refinements, that will make them very
>versatile and enjoyable tools to use for many years.
Well, I added up the "advantages" you cited, and I have yet to see
that they are "clearly better clamps." And the sticking head is a
hugely significant disadvantage.
If all of you CM aficionados want to cast a blind eye to the flawed
design and claim that the CM is a superior clamp to the K-Body, feel
free. In the meantime, every time I take a K-Body off the assembly and
let the head slide down to the fixed jaw as I walk it over to the rack
I will think of you. See, that will conclude my use of the K-Body for
that session. If you do that with a CM you're likely to still have
several minutes with a screwdriver ahead of you. That's a fact.
When I said "Cabinet Masters are an inferior product," I meant that
Cabinet Masters may be decent clamps but they have a design flaw that
renders them inferior to the competition. I stand by that sentiment.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I just got my CMs from the sale, and am wondering aobut all this
> hoopla about the sticking head "major design flaw"<g>. Wouldn't a
> quick turn on the screws before putting them away allow for that turn
> back out to relieve the clamping pressure holding them shut if they do
> get stuck? If so, then this "major design flaw" is in my opinion a
> "minor design oversight".
Well they normally only get stuck if you let them quickly slide shut by
accident. You may not have time to loosen the handle, if that even works,
before the clamp slams shut. ;~)
Another poster indicated that tightening the clamp screw all the way
prevents this. I have not tried this as that would seem to be over kill in
prevention... You will likely let it happen once like I did and then take
care not to let it happen again. Its kinda like learning not to drop any
other decent tool. Just remember to pry the square bar away from the round
bar in the bottom of the sliding clamp with a screw driver if it ever
happens to you. Enjoy.
> Gotta chuckle at the religious wars over clamps. Sounds like the OS
> debate!!
Yeah.... ;~)
Ah, I stand corrected.. thanks.
"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I emailed Adjustable Clamp Co. and asked them about their warranty.
Here's
> the response I received (very promptly, I might add):
>
> "All of our products carry a one year warranty covering faulty workmanship
> or materials. However, we stand behind our products 100%. If you should
> encounter any problems after one year, just contact our Customer Service
> department and we will help resolve the matter."
>
> So, no lifetime warranty, I'm afraid. I'm still waiting to hear from
Bessey
> with their answer to the same question.
>
> Mike
I have 10 K-bodies, and now, thanks to woodcraft, 24 of the cabinet masters.
Sure, if you get your clamp stuck it's a pain, but that doesn't make them an
inferior product. If used properly, and I did a side-by-side comparison
myself the other day, the cabinet masters have some clear advantages. I'm
not going to throw away my k-bodies or anything, of course.
First, the clamping surface is bigger, which gives some obvious advantages.
I suppose there might be a few instances were a smaller clamp might be
useful, but not very often. Second, the clamp head on the cabinet master
can be reversed and used as a spreader. This will definitely come in handy,
I'm sure. The k-bodies cannot do this. Third, the sliding head on the
cabinet masters are slightly raised up when you sit the clamp on it's edge
(the fixed clamp and the end fixture are extended slightly). This allows
you to slide the clamp and then tighten without having to lift the clamp and
the work. This is the biggest and most significant advantage of the cabinet
masters relative to the k-bodies. There have been DOZENS of instances when
I was clamping with the k-body and had to adjust the clamp position and in
doing so shifted the parts and had to screw around to align them again
before applying clamping pressure. The cabinet masters are the clear
winners in this regard. Finally, the cabinet masters are made of JUST as
good of materials as the k-bodies and I see no reason why they won't hold up
for just as long. I've heard reports that k-bodies can develop some
"fatigue" in the clamping mechanism after years of use, whereby the lifting
action you use to tighten the clamp begins to fail (I have not experienced
this myself). I only point this out to say that k-bodies aren't without
fault.
So, there you have it. They are both excellent clamps and work
exceptionally well. In sum comparison, however, I think the cabinet masters
are clearly better clamps and contain not just superficial improvement to
the k-bodies, but actual design refinements, that will make them very
versatile and enjoyable tools to use for many years.
Mike
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:15:33 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Yeah I am sure he is absolutely the only one that has that problem.
>
> You can spin it however you want. K-Bodies don't have that design
> flaw. Cabinet Masters are an inferior product.
>
> I'm done. I made my point.
>
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
I emailed Adjustable Clamp Co. and asked them about their warranty. Here's
the response I received (very promptly, I might add):
"All of our products carry a one year warranty covering faulty workmanship
or materials. However, we stand behind our products 100%. If you should
encounter any problems after one year, just contact our Customer Service
department and we will help resolve the matter."
So, no lifetime warranty, I'm afraid. I'm still waiting to hear from Bessey
with their answer to the same question.
Mike
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> IIRC, the Cabinet Masters have a lifetime warranty. In the link
concerning
> the Fatigue Syndrome, I am surprised that the k-bodies don't or if they
do,
> that the pro wood worker did not have them replaced.
>
>
>
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >I have 10 K-bodies, and now, thanks to woodcraft, 24 of the cabinet
masters.
> >Sure, if you get your clamp stuck it's a pain, but that doesn't make them
an
> >inferior product.
> Uh, excuse me, but, yes it does. K-Bodies don't do that.
Uh LRod you beat any one I haver seen... You ignore what you don't like to
hear or see and constantly look the other way. I pointed out and you
acknowledged that the k-body clamps will in fact get stuck shut. Perhaps
you have not experienced that yet but it apparently does happen.
> >First, the clamping surface is bigger, which gives some obvious
advantages.
> Uh, well call me slow, but what are the obvious advantages? In all the
Ok...your slow. L a r g e r C l a m p i n g S u r f a c e s are less
likely to mar, dent, or imprint softer woods AND reach farther, just to
name the obvious. Why do you like k-bodies over standard pipe clamps....
See the reasoning here? Bigger clamping surface.....
> years I've had K-Bodies I don't ever recall wishing I had a bigger
> clamping surface. So, there's no advantage there.
Probably not to you, but to the average ww'er it would be.
>
> >I suppose there might be a few instances were a smaller clamp might be
> >useful, but not very often.
>
> That really doesn't mean anything. You're buying into the assertion
> that the bigger clamping surface has some advantage, an undemonstrated
> claim, and then turning it around to say that a clamping surface not
> as big is some sort of handicap. Nonsense. No advantage there.
Again your obviously don't see the advantage.
> >Second, the clamp head on the cabinet master can be reversed and used
> >as a spreader. This will definitely come in handy, I'm sure.
> If I EVER have need of a spreader (undiscovered in >40 years of
> woodworking so far) I can go buy a CM or even one of the reversible
> QuickGrips. I don't have to base the acquisition of my entire clamping
> inventory on the ability to accomodate the extremely rare instance of
> needing a spreaing clamp. But apparently it's a feature that the
> marketing department can turn heads with. No advantage there.
It is an included benefit of the Cabinet Master clamps.
> >The k-bodies cannot do this.
>
> Nope, they can't. They can't open cans of tuna, either. That's about
> as useful a feature as the spreading.
Come on now LRod, k-bodies are good clamps, just not the only ones in the
spot light anymore.
> >Third, the sliding head on the cabinet masters are slightly raised up
when
> >you sit the clamp on it's edge (the fixed clamp and the end fixture are
extended
> >slightly). This allows you to slide the clamp and then tighten without
having to
> >lift the clamp and the work. This is the biggest and most significant
advantage
> >of the cabinet masters relative to the k-bodies.
>
How long have you been woodworking? Have you actually used the k-bodies or
a bar clamp? This is a VERY common problem with bar style clamps... Stop
looking the other way LRod. You dont understand,,,right?
> I think you are talking about the little black thing on the end of the
> bar. If I ever needed that feature (which I haven't found the need for
> yet) I would just slip a piece of wood under the bar. Again, like the
> spreading, not a feature that gets a lot of use,
Not the same as a board under ine end. It moves with the clamp and if you
had that on you clamp you would use it almost always when you set the clamps
on the table and put wood on top.
> >There have been DOZENS of instances when I was clamping with the
> >k-body and had to adjust the clamp position and in doing so shifted the
> >parts and had to screw around to align them again before applying
clamping
> >pressure. The cabinet masters are the clear winners in this regard.
>
> I'll concede that for your purposes, that's apparently an important
> feature, and in the sense that the CMs have them and the K-Bodies
> don't, there is an advantage to the CM. Clear winner? That's a little
> strong.
I know that you don't believe magazine reviews, but GS, Bessy and the
Cabinet Master clamps were all compared in Wood Magazine a bit over a year
ago. There was no smoke and mirrors. Cabinet Master came out on top.
> >Finally, the cabinet masters are made of JUST as good of materials as
> >the k-bodies
>
> That may be. They just don't go together the same way, which
> apparently leads to the well known and widespread problem of head
> seizures.
OK, the CM clamps will get stuck.. If you are careless and drop them in a
certain way or let the handle slide from one end to the other with full
force. You can get them unstuck much faster than say, removing a blade from
a Bosch jigsaw that has the combination lock style release.
>
> >and I see no reason why they won't hold up for just as long.
>
> Actually, longevity has never been an argument for either, that I
> recall.
>
> >I've heard reports that k-bodies can develop some "fatigue" in the
clamping
> >mechanism after years of use, whereby the lifting action you use to
tighten
> >the clamp begins to fail (I have not experienced this myself).
> Come on. I've been on the Wreck for a long time and I've been around
> other woodworking fora for a long time as well, not to mention the
> fact that I've been a K-Body owner for some time, as well. I have yet
> to hear the first such tale. Provide me a legitimate cite for such an
> instance. Of course, to back up your claim of "reports" (plural)
> you'll need more than one citation.
I'll concede that I have never heard of a problem with k-bodies other than
with this post and the one that point out that the k-body had stuck like the
CM.
Mine have stuck one time in 18 months... used 3 to 4 times a week....
>
> If all of you CM aficionados want to cast a blind eye to the flawed
> design and claim that the CM is a superior clamp to the K-Body, feel
> free. In the meantime, every time I take a K-Body off the assembly and
> let the head slide down to the fixed jaw as I walk it over to the rack
> I will think of you.
Um why would you let your clamp slam shut like that....
See, that will conclude my use of the K-Body for that session. If you do
that with a CM you're likely to still have
> several minutes with a screwdriver ahead of you. That's a fact.
No LRod, you are getting that confused with the blade change set up on your
jig saw. It takes longer to get the screw driver than to open the jaw if
you ever let it happen again.
>
> When I said "Cabinet Masters are an inferior product," I meant that
> Cabinet Masters may be decent clamps but they have a design flaw that
> renders them inferior to the competition. I stand by that sentiment.
If that makes you fell better about your commitment and investment in
k-bodies, that's all that counts.
The rest of us that do "know" will be happy with out thoughts also.
Apparently they do as someone one has mentioned that already.
'
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> There are no instructions because K-Bodies don't stick.
>
>
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
I has happened to me on two of my kbodies. One I had to send back. The CM's
have gotten stuck as well but I have gotten them all unstuck! Also the
bessey clamp mechanism broke on me when applying pressure.
My book?
CM's rule the roost. Especially cause they hold themselves flat!
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >
> > >I have 10 K-bodies, and now, thanks to woodcraft, 24 of the cabinet
> masters.
> > >Sure, if you get your clamp stuck it's a pain, but that doesn't make
them
> an
> > >inferior product.
>
> > Uh, excuse me, but, yes it does. K-Bodies don't do that.
>
> Uh LRod you beat any one I haver seen... You ignore what you don't like
to
> hear or see and constantly look the other way. I pointed out and you
> acknowledged that the k-body clamps will in fact get stuck shut. Perhaps
> you have not experienced that yet but it apparently does happen.
>
>
> > >First, the clamping surface is bigger, which gives some obvious
> advantages.
>
> > Uh, well call me slow, but what are the obvious advantages? In all the
>
> Ok...your slow. L a r g e r C l a m p i n g S u r f a c e s are less
> likely to mar, dent, or imprint softer woods AND reach farther, just to
> name the obvious. Why do you like k-bodies over standard pipe clamps....
> See the reasoning here? Bigger clamping surface.....
>
> > years I've had K-Bodies I don't ever recall wishing I had a bigger
> > clamping surface. So, there's no advantage there.
>
> Probably not to you, but to the average ww'er it would be.
>
> >
> > >I suppose there might be a few instances were a smaller clamp might be
> > >useful, but not very often.
> >
> > That really doesn't mean anything. You're buying into the assertion
> > that the bigger clamping surface has some advantage, an undemonstrated
> > claim, and then turning it around to say that a clamping surface not
> > as big is some sort of handicap. Nonsense. No advantage there.
>
> Again your obviously don't see the advantage.
>
> > >Second, the clamp head on the cabinet master can be reversed and used
> > >as a spreader. This will definitely come in handy, I'm sure.
>
> > If I EVER have need of a spreader (undiscovered in >40 years of
> > woodworking so far) I can go buy a CM or even one of the reversible
> > QuickGrips. I don't have to base the acquisition of my entire clamping
> > inventory on the ability to accomodate the extremely rare instance of
> > needing a spreaing clamp. But apparently it's a feature that the
> > marketing department can turn heads with. No advantage there.
>
> It is an included benefit of the Cabinet Master clamps.
>
> > >The k-bodies cannot do this.
> >
> > Nope, they can't. They can't open cans of tuna, either. That's about
> > as useful a feature as the spreading.
>
> Come on now LRod, k-bodies are good clamps, just not the only ones in the
> spot light anymore.
>
> > >Third, the sliding head on the cabinet masters are slightly raised up
> when
> > >you sit the clamp on it's edge (the fixed clamp and the end fixture are
> extended
> > >slightly). This allows you to slide the clamp and then tighten without
> having to
> > >lift the clamp and the work. This is the biggest and most significant
> advantage
> > >of the cabinet masters relative to the k-bodies.
> >
>
> How long have you been woodworking? Have you actually used the k-bodies
or
> a bar clamp? This is a VERY common problem with bar style clamps... Stop
> looking the other way LRod. You dont understand,,,right?
>
> > I think you are talking about the little black thing on the end of the
> > bar. If I ever needed that feature (which I haven't found the need for
> > yet) I would just slip a piece of wood under the bar. Again, like the
> > spreading, not a feature that gets a lot of use,
>
> Not the same as a board under ine end. It moves with the clamp and if you
> had that on you clamp you would use it almost always when you set the
clamps
> on the table and put wood on top.
>
> > >There have been DOZENS of instances when I was clamping with the
> > >k-body and had to adjust the clamp position and in doing so shifted the
> > >parts and had to screw around to align them again before applying
> clamping
> > >pressure. The cabinet masters are the clear winners in this regard.
> >
> > I'll concede that for your purposes, that's apparently an important
> > feature, and in the sense that the CMs have them and the K-Bodies
> > don't, there is an advantage to the CM. Clear winner? That's a little
> > strong.
>
> I know that you don't believe magazine reviews, but GS, Bessy and the
> Cabinet Master clamps were all compared in Wood Magazine a bit over a year
> ago. There was no smoke and mirrors. Cabinet Master came out on top.
>
>
> > >Finally, the cabinet masters are made of JUST as good of materials as
> > >the k-bodies
> >
> > That may be. They just don't go together the same way, which
> > apparently leads to the well known and widespread problem of head
> > seizures.
>
> OK, the CM clamps will get stuck.. If you are careless and drop them in a
> certain way or let the handle slide from one end to the other with full
> force. You can get them unstuck much faster than say, removing a blade
from
> a Bosch jigsaw that has the combination lock style release.
>
> >
> > >and I see no reason why they won't hold up for just as long.
> >
> > Actually, longevity has never been an argument for either, that I
> > recall.
> >
> > >I've heard reports that k-bodies can develop some "fatigue" in the
> clamping
> > >mechanism after years of use, whereby the lifting action you use to
> tighten
> > >the clamp begins to fail (I have not experienced this myself).
>
>
> > Come on. I've been on the Wreck for a long time and I've been around
> > other woodworking fora for a long time as well, not to mention the
> > fact that I've been a K-Body owner for some time, as well. I have yet
> > to hear the first such tale. Provide me a legitimate cite for such an
> > instance. Of course, to back up your claim of "reports" (plural)
> > you'll need more than one citation.
>
> I'll concede that I have never heard of a problem with k-bodies other than
> with this post and the one that point out that the k-body had stuck like
the
> CM.
>
>
> Mine have stuck one time in 18 months... used 3 to 4 times a week....
>
> >
> > If all of you CM aficionados want to cast a blind eye to the flawed
> > design and claim that the CM is a superior clamp to the K-Body, feel
> > free. In the meantime, every time I take a K-Body off the assembly and
> > let the head slide down to the fixed jaw as I walk it over to the rack
> > I will think of you.
>
> Um why would you let your clamp slam shut like that....
>
>
> See, that will conclude my use of the K-Body for that session. If you do
> that with a CM you're likely to still have
> > several minutes with a screwdriver ahead of you. That's a fact.
>
> No LRod, you are getting that confused with the blade change set up on
your
> jig saw. It takes longer to get the screw driver than to open the jaw if
> you ever let it happen again.
>
> >
> > When I said "Cabinet Masters are an inferior product," I meant that
> > Cabinet Masters may be decent clamps but they have a design flaw that
> > renders them inferior to the competition. I stand by that sentiment.
>
> If that makes you fell better about your commitment and investment in
> k-bodies, that's all that counts.
>
> The rest of us that do "know" will be happy with out thoughts also.
>
>
>
>
>
Actually Tom Murry indicated the same problem with a k-body.
I had one that was stuck for about 6 - 7 months. Tried every
screwdriver/leverage trick I could think of. (It had worked with a
Bessey that had the same problem.) I finally got it free by tapping
the end (not the base of the clamp, the end with the black removeable
stopper) on a concrete floor several times. Each time it became a
little looser and finally ... ta da ... it was like getting a new
clamp.
--[ Tom ]--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Apparently they do as someone one has mentioned that already.
> '
>
>
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > There are no instructions because K-Bodies don't stick.
> >
> >
> > LRod
> >
> > Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
> >
> > Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
> >
> > http://www.woodbutcher.net
>
>
"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I understand the sticking head problem, and I agree it can be a problem for
>the CM. That being said, it seems to happen in two main ways. 1) someone
>is trying to cause the lock just to see for themselves if it really happens
>and 2) someone misuses the clamp (i.e. drops it on the floor or let's the
>jaws slam together. I usually treat my clamps as well as my power tools,
>and I've never dropped a k-body yet, so I don't see myself doing that with
>the CM's.
I just got my CMs from the sale, and am wondering aobut all this
hoopla about the sticking head "major design flaw"<g>. Wouldn't a
quick turn on the screws before putting them away allow for that turn
back out to relieve the clamping pressure holding them shut if they do
get stuck? If so, then this "major design flaw" is in my opinion a
"minor design oversight".
Gotta chuckle at the religious wars over clamps. Sounds like the OS
debate!!
>But, hey, opinions are like a$$holes
You got that right.
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.
Yeah I am sure he is absolutely the only one that has that problem.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:21:13 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Apparently they do as someone one has mentioned that already.
> >'
>
> Hmmm. One in a row. After what? Fifteen years in distribution?
> Compared to dozens of instances with the CMs after less than two
> years.
>
>
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
What point? ;~) The point that you still ignore facts?
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:15:33 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Yeah I am sure he is absolutely the only one that has that problem.
>
> You can spin it however you want. K-Bodies don't have that design
> flaw. Cabinet Masters are an inferior product.
>
> I'm done. I made my point.
>
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net