TS Adjustment Question

George wrote:
> Or try some belt dressing/link belt.



Don't use belt dressing on any belt anywhere at any time.




--
{neatly edited}
--

Mark

N.E. Ohio

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice
there is.

Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)

Or try some belt dressing/link belt. Belt slip sounds a player. If it
diminishes when you're cutting almost down versus into and down, it would
confirm that.

You could remove the entire fence after the leading edge of the blade
without worry if you care to. Though there are some physical-science
challenged types who still don't believe it. Push straight ahead. Notice
how we use pivot fences on bandsaws and blocks for repeat cuts against our
fences already?

"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <WzLzc.37326$2i5.27464@attbi_s52>, "joey" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > It feels like its taking uneven bites when feeding in at slow and steady
> > rate like its fighting the wood being pushed in. It doesn't seem like a
> > pinch like if the fence were toed in. I do get sideways vibration of the
> > narrow waste. When I set the fence with a little toe out (15
thousandths)
> > the cut is fairly smooth but it still feels like the blade is fighting
the
> > feed into it. Haven't tried with splitter on. Blades are new clean
WWII(thin
> > and regular kerf 40Ts)
>
> You might try raising the blade height so the blade teeth make a more
> downward arc cut in the wood rather than an arc predominately toward
> you. If that doesn't affect the "grabbiness" then it will certainly have
> some affect on the feed resistance.

Have they all been glazed near the same point in the past?

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Or try some belt dressing/link belt. Belt slip sounds a player. If it
> > diminishes when you're cutting almost down versus into and down, it
would
> > confirm that.
> >
> Do you think 3 belts would have a problem with slipping?
>
>
>
>
>
>

The mini thread on belts was good they did seem loose. Manuel didn't say how
to judge how tight to get them. Tightened them up and cut is better less
grabby a little more buttery feed, having trouble with blade marks.
Newest 'feature' in addition to the slop when lifting the arbor up is that
the whole assembly moves front to back a slightly between the trunion
saddles. Just doesn't seem like this saw should have so much play
Back to PM tech line


"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LwHzc.45462$0y.28503@attbi_s03...
> Hi
> I've had a PM66 for a couple months now and it has a tendency to be
'grabby'
> when ripping stock, more so with thicker HWs. I've done all the blade,
> miter slot, rip fence and run out alignments and checked and rechecked.
> Tried different rip fence toe out settings etc get better results but
still
> not real smooth. Last nite I noticed I could grab and lift the bearing arm
a
> little. With the raising wheel lock not tightened I could raise the arm
> assembly ~40 thousandths, with the lock tightened then I could raise it
> 'only' 20 thousandths. Seams like this could explain the grabby cut if the
> blade is vibrating up and down. Does this sound like a problem. BTW no
play
> in the tilting mechanism I could detect
>
> I talked to their tech support and he went from saying they will always
be
> a little play to umm I think that could be adjusted with a collar on the
> raising shaft .. then to call me and let me know what you find out
>
> Does the tightening knob just lock the adjustment wheel in place or should
> it cause the worm gear and lift gear threads to pull together? Seams like
> there shouldn't be any vertical movement when tightened
> I'm going to try and adjust so they pull together if that doesn't do it
I'll
> take another run at the tech support
> Any opinions or insight to this?
> Thanks for reading
> Joe
>
>

"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:m3Yzc.40404$2i5.15635@attbi_s52...
> Good point about stock haven't done a real project yet which I would
follow
> my normal stock prep and using my usual wood source. Narrow or wide waste
> the feel is pretty much the same
> I'll keep tweaking the fence around
> Maybe its a matter of getting used to new saw, had my tricked out
Craftsman
> out for almost 15 years. If you take your blade off and lift up on the
arbor
> is there slop in your saw? I still can't help but think this is not normal
> for a saw of this class. After looking again its definitely play in the
ACME
> threads that isn't present in the tilt adjusts


I had one of those super tuned Craftsman TS's for about 17 years also. I
don't think it is a matter of getting used to the saw and especially the
PM66.

I did go out to my saw, a Jet JTAS 3 hp cabinet saw and found no play at the
arbor full up or part way down. Maybe to much play or lash in the
adjustment.

"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LwHzc.45462$0y.28503@attbi_s03...

How do you define grabby?

Do you hear chattering when you rip? Could be stock that does not set flat
on the table top.
Does your waste have tooth marks in it? Are you using a splitter? Could be
internal stress in the wood pinching the blade.

That said, I would find it hard to comprehend the blade cutting into the
wood and lifting the trunion and motor assembly. It really should not be
taking a large enough bite that the wood would be able to provide
substantial enough support for the blade to climb.

yep new
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Have they all been glazed near the same point in the past?
>
>
> I don't know, Joey indicated that he had only had the saw a couple of
> months. I don't know if it was a new saw or not.
>
>

"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Or try some belt dressing/link belt. Belt slip sounds a player. If it
> diminishes when you're cutting almost down versus into and down, it would
> confirm that.
>
Do you think 3 belts would have a problem with slipping?

Thanks Leon
It feels like its taking uneven bites when feeding in at slow and steady
rate like its fighting the wood being pushed in. It doesn't seem like a
pinch like if the fence were toed in. I do get sideways vibration of the
narrow waste. When I set the fence with a little toe out (15 thousandths)
the cut is fairly smooth but it still feels like the blade is fighting the
feed into it. Haven't tried with splitter on. Blades are new clean WWII(thin
and regular kerf 40Ts)
Trunion doesn't move... when lifting the bearing arm the motor moves as does
the blade shaft. Agree about the climbing .. way to much weight I was
thinking more of it vibrating up and down due to the slop


"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:LwHzc.45462$0y.28503@attbi_s03...
>
> How do you define grabby?
>
> Do you hear chattering when you rip? Could be stock that does not set
flat
> on the table top.
> Does your waste have tooth marks in it? Are you using a splitter? Could
be
> internal stress in the wood pinching the blade.
>
> That said, I would find it hard to comprehend the blade cutting into the
> wood and lifting the trunion and motor assembly. It really should not be
> taking a large enough bite that the wood would be able to provide
> substantial enough support for the blade to climb.
>
>

Thanks for the suggestions.
The latest is I now get amazing glass smooth cuts in 8/4 cherry and maple if
it keeps cutting like this I will abandon my practice of cleaning up cuts on
the jointer.
I think it was a combo of errors. It started with terrible burning and
grabby feed on said boards so I started adjusting the rip fence toe. In the
process I switched from regular kerf blade to thin kerf blade (Both
WWIIs)thinking that
one would be easier to achieve adjustment with. So from the other post the
suggestion came up about the belt tension... seemed pretty loose and I
tightened that up. Much better feel to the cut much more power from the
motor but lots of saw marks, adjusting the toe wasn't helping a lot which I
last set to about 0.008". So I get to thinking about that thin kerf blade
sure enough lay it on the table and it has some unevenness. I put the 1/8"
blade back on and absolutely beautiful rips ... nickel stays on edge even
while cutting
The weird thing about the gears is that there is no backlash in the
movements from up to down. T
I'm still bugged about the play and am going to track down a local PM rep.
but I'm not one to argue with the results I now get. If the little bit of
slop was a problem I don't see anyway I could get the results I now get. It
was a good exercise to get under the saw and see how much iron this thing
has


"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LwHzc.45462$0y.28503@attbi_s03...
> Hi
> I've had a PM66 for a couple months now and it has a tendency to be
'grabby'
> when ripping stock, more so with thicker HWs. I've done all the blade,
> miter slot, rip fence and run out alignments and checked and rechecked.
> Tried different rip fence toe out settings etc get better results but
still
> not real smooth. Last nite I noticed I could grab and lift the bearing arm
a
> little. With the raising wheel lock not tightened I could raise the arm
> assembly ~40 thousandths, with the lock tightened then I could raise it
> 'only' 20 thousandths. Seams like this could explain the grabby cut if the
> blade is vibrating up and down. Does this sound like a problem. BTW no
play
> in the tilting mechanism I could detect
>
> I talked to their tech support and he went from saying they will always
be
> a little play to umm I think that could be adjusted with a collar on the
> raising shaft .. then to call me and let me know what you find out
>
> Does the tightening knob just lock the adjustment wheel in place or should
> it cause the worm gear and lift gear threads to pull together? Seams like
> there shouldn't be any vertical movement when tightened
> I'm going to try and adjust so they pull together if that doesn't do it
I'll
> take another run at the tech support
> Any opinions or insight to this?
> Thanks for reading
> Joe
>
>

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:49:15 GMT, "joey" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi
>I've had a PM66 for a couple months now and it has a tendency to be 'grabby'
>when ripping stock, more so with thicker HWs.

What blade are you using? Blades that come with table saws are
typically not the best. I am not sure if that applies to the PM66 or
not.

"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:zB5Ac.46370$eu.45994@attbi_s02...
> 2 belts not 3
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Or try some belt dressing/link belt. Belt slip sounds a player. If
it
> > > diminishes when you're cutting almost down versus into and down, it
> would
> > > confirm that.
> > >
> > Do you think 3 belts would have a problem with slipping?

The newest ones now have 3. Your saw has 2 serpentine belts? Powermatic
used that a few years back. Probably better and for sure more expensive.

Birthdat was feb/04 according to QA report with it


"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:zB5Ac.46370$eu.45994@attbi_s02...
> > 2 belts not 3
> > "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Or try some belt dressing/link belt. Belt slip sounds a player. If
> it
> > > > diminishes when you're cutting almost down versus into and down, it
> > would
> > > > confirm that.
> > > >
> > > Do you think 3 belts would have a problem with slipping?
>
> The newest ones now have 3. Your saw has 2 serpentine belts? Powermatic
> used that a few years back. Probably better and for sure more expensive.
>
>

Good point about stock haven't done a real project yet which I would follow
my normal stock prep and using my usual wood source. Narrow or wide waste
the feel is pretty much the same
I'll keep tweaking the fence around
Maybe its a matter of getting used to new saw, had my tricked out Craftsman
out for almost 15 years. If you take your blade off and lift up on the arbor
is there slop in your saw? I still can't help but think this is not normal
for a saw of this class. After looking again its definitely play in the ACME
threads that isn't present in the tilt adjusts

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:WzLzc.37326$2i5.27464@attbi_s52...
>
> Joey, I get a chattering sound sometimes with my saw and it even seems
that
> the wood wants to lift. I discovered that the wood is the problem if it
> bows up or bows down from front to back. Basically the chattering was the
> wood vibrating as the it was being cut. This seems like what you are
> describing.
>
> That said, your toe out of 15 thousands sounds quite strong and may very
> well be the problem. I personally subscribe to as close to dead on
parallel
> as possible. IIRC some blade manufacturers indicate a max of 5 thousands
if
> you are going to toe the fence out at the back.
>
> Remember, the more toe out you have, the more you will be forcing the
waste
> into the left back side of the blade.
>
> If it is a wood pinching problem, the splitter should alleviate a lot of
> the symptoms. Often wood will try to close back up immediately after
> passing the blade.
>
> Do you notice if the symptoms are the same if you rip with a thin piece of
> waste? Thin pieces of waste, 1/8" or so wide tend to not bind at the back
> of the blade as badly and are easier cuts. Ripping down the center of a
4"
> wide piece will tend to exaggerate rough cutting with a non parallel feed
> path.
>
>

In article <WzLzc.37326$2i5.27464@attbi_s52>, "joey" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> It feels like its taking uneven bites when feeding in at slow and steady
> rate like its fighting the wood being pushed in. It doesn't seem like a
> pinch like if the fence were toed in. I do get sideways vibration of the
> narrow waste. When I set the fence with a little toe out (15 thousandths)
> the cut is fairly smooth but it still feels like the blade is fighting the
> feed into it. Haven't tried with splitter on. Blades are new clean WWII(thin
> and regular kerf 40Ts)
> Trunion doesn't move... when lifting the bearing arm the motor moves as does
> the blade shaft. Agree about the climbing .. way to much weight I was
> thinking more of it vibrating up and down due to the slop

You might try raising the blade height so the blade teeth make a more
downward arc cut in the wood rather than an arc predominately toward
you. If that doesn't affect the "grabbiness" then it will certainly have
some affect on the feed resistance.

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>

"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:io7Ac.53353$0y.38626@attbi_s03...
> Birthdat was feb/04 according to QA report with it


Yeah Charlie has steered me straight. The web site indicates 3VX belts.
The parts illustration shows 2 belts.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:38:57 GMT, "joey" <[email protected]> wrote:

>The mini thread on belts was good they did seem loose. Manuel didn't say how
>to judge how tight to get them. Tightened them up and cut is better less
>grabby a little more buttery feed, having trouble with blade marks.
>Newest 'feature' in addition to the slop when lifting the arbor up is that
>the whole assembly moves front to back a slightly between the trunion
>saddles.


this is easy enough to adjust out, but it means pulling the saw top.
it sounds like it's about time to do that anyway- go through the saw
from top to bottom and adjust everything....







>Just doesn't seem like this saw should have so much play
>Back to PM tech line

"joey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WzLzc.37326$2i5.27464@attbi_s52...

Joey, I get a chattering sound sometimes with my saw and it even seems that
the wood wants to lift. I discovered that the wood is the problem if it
bows up or bows down from front to back. Basically the chattering was the
wood vibrating as the it was being cut. This seems like what you are
describing.

That said, your toe out of 15 thousands sounds quite strong and may very
well be the problem. I personally subscribe to as close to dead on parallel
as possible. IIRC some blade manufacturers indicate a max of 5 thousands if
you are going to toe the fence out at the back.

Remember, the more toe out you have, the more you will be forcing the waste
into the left back side of the blade.

If it is a wood pinching problem, the splitter should alleviate a lot of
the symptoms. Often wood will try to close back up immediately after
passing the blade.

Do you notice if the symptoms are the same if you rip with a thin piece of
waste? Thin pieces of waste, 1/8" or so wide tend to not bind at the back
of the blade as badly and are easier cuts. Ripping down the center of a 4"
wide piece will tend to exaggerate rough cutting with a non parallel feed
path.

"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Have they all been glazed near the same point in the past?


I don't know, Joey indicated that he had only had the saw a couple of
months. I don't know if it was a new saw or not.

2 belts not 3
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Or try some belt dressing/link belt. Belt slip sounds a player. If it
> > diminishes when you're cutting almost down versus into and down, it
would
> > confirm that.
> >
> Do you think 3 belts would have a problem with slipping?
>



>
>