OT-Carter Products celebrates 75 years serving the woodworking industry

"Carter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> The first being that I’m the newly appointed Director of Media
> Services for the Carter Products Company, and thus its my job to get the
> word out anyway I can about our products.

This is the point of contention. USENET is a discussion area for subjects
of the particujlar newsgroup. It is not meant to be commercial. A simple
announcement may be alllowed, but you can split har between a simple
annoucement and a full blown advertisement at times. Personally, I did not
see any problem with shat you did as a one time thing as at least you were
offering a discount.


> I’ve been lurking around rec.woodworking
> for a while now, and even posted a few times with questions I’ve had.
> I’ve been very tempted on more then a few occasions to post my opinions
> when questions about bandsaw guides, tires, tension springs, etc. come
> up. However in fear of being flamed because of my connection to Carter
> Products I have not posted.

As long as you are giving honest advice, not just try to sell products I
don't see that this is a problem. If you sig line shows your affiliation
with Carter, we can make out own judgement. We all know of Setve Knight and
Mike at American Sycamore and others and when they say this or that works
best for them, we know they are giving honest opinion, not trying to sell
their product. They have experience with many products and share their
thoughts freely. No reason you should not. Not much different that when a
machinist, blacksmith, electrician pop in to answer questions in their area
of expertise.


> I know for myself I would much rather get
> advice from someone who has used a product but is in no way connected to
> the company that sells the product. I’d be more then happy to extol what
> in my opinion are the virtues of the full roller bearing guide, the need
> to de-tension after every bandsaw use thus our Quick Release, but I’d
> much prefer someone who owns our product or another product pass this
> info on whether it be for our against our products.

I'd be interested in not just your opinion, but any real facts on the
subject. I de-tension every day and believe it to be beneficail. Others say
it makes no difference. I'm sure your quick release works wele, but I use a
cheaper product. Best way to handle that is to answer a question about it
rather than post a 20 page white paper on the subject that reeks of
advertising. .


> If you can think of
> a way for me to talk about our products or give advice without getting
> flamed for my bias towards them that would be great, but I cannot.

Thee is a difference bwtween aswering a question and stating if it comes
from your perspective as a Carter employee and just rambling on about
somethiing with the main intention of telling us about Carter product.
Robin Lee does that often. He is held in high regard, we know his company,
we know his products, but he answers questions of general interest when he
can. He also answer questions directed to Lee Valley products when
appropriate. He NEVER steps in and says don't buy brand X, but my stuff
instead. Google up his posts for some guidance.
Ed

Well it worked, I just looked at their website!

John

Dave Hinz wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:05:50 -0400, Carter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Sorry about the off topic post, but we here at Carter Products are happy
>>to announce we just turned 75! and we wanted you to share in the
>>celebration.
>
>
> Hm. You know, it's one thing when a regular participant and
> contributor here also sells stuff, it's an entirely different thing
> when someone who doesn't, comes in with an ad. Maybe I've missed
> it, but it looks to me like you're just using a forum you don't
> contribute to for free advertising, is that the case here?
>
>

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:05:50 -0400, Carter <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sorry about the off topic post, but we here at Carter Products are happy
> to announce we just turned 75! and we wanted you to share in the
> celebration.

Hm. You know, it's one thing when a regular participant and
contributor here also sells stuff, it's an entirely different thing
when someone who doesn't, comes in with an ad. Maybe I've missed
it, but it looks to me like you're just using a forum you don't
contribute to for free advertising, is that the case here?

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:01:15 GMT, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I agree that a vendor that doesn't contribute but wants our business is a
> bit on the sly side but... Let's invite him to join in and provide some
> guidance / advice on his products. We get some tips/hints and he gets a
> world-wide audience. His ad was well done I might ad.

Perhaps, but he's going about it backwards if he wants me to consider
buying anything from him. In one of the VW auto groups, there's
a guy there (John) who is _very_ helpful and an active participant.
Picture Charlie Self, but with VW Beetle stuff. Months into
reading the group, I realized that he was also the person selling
restoration products, repair parts, and all that, that people were
refering to by vendor name (rather than his name, y'see, so it wasn't
obvious).

To contrast, if it's someone who hasn't participated (and/or
contributed) in a group and they wander in with their commercial,
I see it as about the same as someone crashing a party, breaking
into conversations, and trying to sell everyone at the party something.

It was one of the milder spam's that I've seen, but it's still a
pork product in a can with that disgusting jelly stuff on it.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:32:14 -0400, Eddie Munster <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well it worked, I just looked at their website!

Wonderful. I have a cousin who sells cars, but I'm not posting ads
for his dealership here. Spammers keep doing it because people
keep buying from them...something to think about next time you're
sweeping out your inbox.

On 17 Jun 2004 08:22:51 -0700, brad <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Not everyone will agree (that NEVER happens here), but that is just a
> part of Usenet. I'm interested in Carter Products products (!) and
> would welcome your input and participation.

Yup, participation is the way to go.

"Carter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Sorry about the off topic post, but we here at Carter Products are happy
> to announce we just turned 75! and we wanted you to share in the
> celebration.

Batten down the hatches, don the asbestos.

Me? I'm fine with your post. Maye "OT" should have been "FS", but close
enough.
And I don't mind a URL that directs me to a Sale page.

Lee,

Please do stick around and continue to contribute whenever you feel it
appropriate. We all benefit from having reps of manufacturers and
retailers participate, and from a manufacturer's perspective it's hard
to imagine a better source of information from its consumers.

I personally don't even feel that it's inappropriate for you to offer
opinions and/or facts which you feel make your company's products
superior. As long as you identify your connection to the company so
that everyone understands where/who it is coming from, I see no
problem...

Not everyone will agree (that NEVER happens here), but that is just a
part of Usenet. I'm interested in Carter Products products (!) and
would welcome your input and participation.

Brad


Carter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Please excuse the extremely long post but I felt a response was
> necessary.
> (large snip)
> > Lee
> Director of Media Services
> Carter Products Company
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > Hopefully (but I doubt it) the gentleman will read your posts and take it to
> > heart.
> >
> > Bob S.

"[email protected]" said in response to my post which encouraged the
OP to keep posting:

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Your thrust brings to mind the Packard Motorcar slogan "Ask the man
> that owns one".
>
> On 17 Jun 2004 08:22:51 -0700, [email protected] (brad) wrote:
>
> >Please do stick around and continue to contribute whenever you feel it
> >appropriate. We all benefit from having reps of manufacturers and
> >retailers participate, and from a manufacturer's perspective it's hard
> >to imagine a better source of information from its consumers.

To which I respond: Sorry, I've never purchased any Carter Products.
Certainly would have disclosed that if I had.

jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
...
> I personally have no problem with your original post, in fact I thought
> it rather well done. wRECkers can be a cantankerous bunch of old farts
> and fartettes, but with a few exceptions, we are fair and will slather
> friend and foe alike with kudos and derision. Stick around. If you see
> a question that one of your products can solve, have at it. If it's
> great, you will hear about it. If it sucks, well ...
...

Yeah, I agree exactly. Plenty of others have advertised their
services here. I don't see any problem with it as long as its related
to woodworking and it isn't repetitive.

Besides, this OT post is no worse than a dozen other OT threads that
are going on here (arguably better than most of them).

Carter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Please excuse the extremely long post but I felt a response was
> necessary.
>
> I do take things like this to heart and am happy to contribute where I
> can. However I have the unenviable position of being caught between two
> ideals. The first being that I’m the newly appointed Director of Media
> Services for the Carter Products Company, and thus its my job to get the
> word out anyway I can about our products. The other being that I’m sure
> you would rather get product advice from someone who has used a product,
> not someone who also sells it. I’ve been lurking around rec.woodworking
> for a while now, and even posted a few times with questions I’ve had.
> I’ve been very tempted on more then a few occasions to post my opinions
> when questions about bandsaw guides, tires, tension springs, etc. come
> up. However in fear of being flamed because of my connection to Carter
> Products I have not posted. I know for myself I would much rather get
> advice from someone who has used a product but is in no way connected to
> the company that sells the product. I’d be more then happy to extol what
> in my opinion are the virtues of the full roller bearing guide, the need
> to de-tension after every bandsaw use thus our Quick Release, but I’d
> much prefer someone who owns our product or another product pass this
> info on whether it be for our against our products. If you can think of
> a way for me to talk about our products or give advice without getting
> flamed for my bias towards them that would be great, but I cannot. So as
> you see either way I’m doomed. Flamed if I do post, Flamed, as in this
> case, if I don’t.
>
> Likewise I really don’t consider myself to be an expert on woodworking.
> I’m an amateur woodworker at best, who has been learning ever since my
> grandfather first taught me how to use his bandsaw at the age of 12.
> I’ve attended classes on woodworking, most recently at the Marc Adams
> School of Woodworking, and while I enjoy what I can do in woodworking, I
> don’t consider myself an expert at it. I’m not an engineer here, nor do
> I develop any of the products, my job is to understand the basics of
> them and create marketing and instructional materials for them. I’ve
> really spent the last years of my life learning and perfecting my
> current occupation (video, web design, marketing and multimedia) thus
> woodworking is more of a weekend hobby then anything else to me. As such
> I don’t feel really qualified to give that much info on a subject I am
> still learning about. If questions arise about our products specifically
> relating to some aspect like adjusting, mounting, etc. then I’d be all
> over it, but typically questions are asking how people like the product
> (mostly guides) or if they recommend it, and that’s not really fair for
> me to comment because of my affiliation with the company that sells the
> product. Since I only woodwork as a hobby I really am not that
> knowledgeable about tons of equipment other than what I use, which as
> you might expect is equipped with everything that Carter sells. I admit
> I don’t monitor rec.woodworking daily so I’m sure there have been some
> questions that I could add my two cents to that I’ve missed, but I can’t
> devote all my time to the internet as my job requires I spend time
> elsewhere and being a new father my family requires what little time I
> have left over.
>
> The purpose of the original message, which I might add was only posted
> to rec.woodworking, was to pass on the news of Carters 75th anniversary
> and give the rec.woodworking users the opportunity to gain a discount,
> not typically extended to the end user (customer), on our products if
> they were interested. Sure it’s secondary purpose was also as an ad,
> sure I wanted it to generate further interest, exposure and hopefully
> sales of our products, but no harm was intended with the posting.
> Perhaps it should have read FS instead of OT but I did my best to label
> it as off topic, thus in hopes to avoid the flames that followed. As
> such I wish to convey my apologies for it’s intrusion into
> rec.woodworking. As time permits I will try to participate where
> appropriate. If anyone has specific questions regarding our products
> please direct them to our [email protected] address and we will
> be happy to answer them or to myself at [email protected]
> Likewise post them here and other possibly more experienced and unbiased
> users might be able to answer them, if not I’ll do my best to answer
> them in a timely manner. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this response but
> I felt it was necessary to do so. Again I’m sorry for any disruption my
> posting may have made.
>
> Lee
> Director of Media Services
> Carter Products Company
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > Hopefully (but I doubt it) the gentleman will read your posts and take it to
> > heart.
> >
> > Bob S.

Dear Lee:

I welcome your post and most woodworkers will welcome your post. No
need to apologize...no fowl here. I enjoyed your site and appreciated
the information.
I have done business with Carter since my days with The Edward B.
Mueller Co out of Cinncinati, OH. I invite you to take a look at my
website as well.

www.americansycamoreretreat.com

thanks,
Mike from American Sycamore

Please excuse the extremely long post but I felt a response was
necessary.

I do take things like this to heart and am happy to contribute where I
can. However I have the unenviable position of being caught between two
ideals. The first being that I’m the newly appointed Director of Media
Services for the Carter Products Company, and thus its my job to get the
word out anyway I can about our products. The other being that I’m sure
you would rather get product advice from someone who has used a product,
not someone who also sells it. I’ve been lurking around rec.woodworking
for a while now, and even posted a few times with questions I’ve had.
I’ve been very tempted on more then a few occasions to post my opinions
when questions about bandsaw guides, tires, tension springs, etc. come
up. However in fear of being flamed because of my connection to Carter
Products I have not posted. I know for myself I would much rather get
advice from someone who has used a product but is in no way connected to
the company that sells the product. I’d be more then happy to extol what
in my opinion are the virtues of the full roller bearing guide, the need
to de-tension after every bandsaw use thus our Quick Release, but I’d
much prefer someone who owns our product or another product pass this
info on whether it be for our against our products. If you can think of
a way for me to talk about our products or give advice without getting
flamed for my bias towards them that would be great, but I cannot. So as
you see either way I’m doomed. Flamed if I do post, Flamed, as in this
case, if I don’t.

Likewise I really don’t consider myself to be an expert on woodworking.
I’m an amateur woodworker at best, who has been learning ever since my
grandfather first taught me how to use his bandsaw at the age of 12.
I’ve attended classes on woodworking, most recently at the Marc Adams
School of Woodworking, and while I enjoy what I can do in woodworking, I
don’t consider myself an expert at it. I’m not an engineer here, nor do
I develop any of the products, my job is to understand the basics of
them and create marketing and instructional materials for them. I’ve
really spent the last years of my life learning and perfecting my
current occupation (video, web design, marketing and multimedia) thus
woodworking is more of a weekend hobby then anything else to me. As such
I don’t feel really qualified to give that much info on a subject I am
still learning about. If questions arise about our products specifically
relating to some aspect like adjusting, mounting, etc. then I’d be all
over it, but typically questions are asking how people like the product
(mostly guides) or if they recommend it, and that’s not really fair for
me to comment because of my affiliation with the company that sells the
product. Since I only woodwork as a hobby I really am not that
knowledgeable about tons of equipment other than what I use, which as
you might expect is equipped with everything that Carter sells. I admit
I don’t monitor rec.woodworking daily so I’m sure there have been some
questions that I could add my two cents to that I’ve missed, but I can’t
devote all my time to the internet as my job requires I spend time
elsewhere and being a new father my family requires what little time I
have left over.

The purpose of the original message, which I might add was only posted
to rec.woodworking, was to pass on the news of Carters 75th anniversary
and give the rec.woodworking users the opportunity to gain a discount,
not typically extended to the end user (customer), on our products if
they were interested. Sure it’s secondary purpose was also as an ad,
sure I wanted it to generate further interest, exposure and hopefully
sales of our products, but no harm was intended with the posting.
Perhaps it should have read FS instead of OT but I did my best to label
it as off topic, thus in hopes to avoid the flames that followed. As
such I wish to convey my apologies for it’s intrusion into
rec.woodworking. As time permits I will try to participate where
appropriate. If anyone has specific questions regarding our products
please direct them to our [email protected] address and we will
be happy to answer them or to myself at [email protected]
Likewise post them here and other possibly more experienced and unbiased
users might be able to answer them, if not I’ll do my best to answer
them in a timely manner. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this response but
I felt it was necessary to do so. Again I’m sorry for any disruption my
posting may have made.

Lee
Director of Media Services
Carter Products Company


Bob wrote:

> Hopefully (but I doubt it) the gentleman will read your posts and take it to
> heart.
>
> Bob S.

Your thrust brings to mind the Packard Motorcar slogan "Ask the man
that owns one".

On 17 Jun 2004 08:22:51 -0700, [email protected] (brad) wrote:

>Please do stick around and continue to contribute whenever you feel it
>appropriate. We all benefit from having reps of manufacturers and
>retailers participate, and from a manufacturer's perspective it's hard
>to imagine a better source of information from its consumers.

Dave Hinz wrote:
>In one of the VW auto groups, there's a guy there (John)
>who is _very_ helpful and an active participant.
>Picture Charlie Self, but with VW Beetle stuff. Months into
>reading the group, I realized that he was also the person selling
>restoration products, repair parts, and all that, that people were
>refering to by vendor name (rather than his name, y'see, so it wasn't
>obvious).

Much like our own St. Robin of Lee? Or once upon a time
Bennet of TS Aligner fame. Though with the former I've nary
seen a commercial endorsement and the man demonstrates
probably the best bidness model I've ever seen whereas the
latter usually only spoke to alignment issues (his strong
suit) but is remembered for the long (OK, painful to those
who watched) flame wars with the likes of Puzzle Boy.

>To contrast, if it's someone who hasn't participated (and/or
>contributed) in a group and they wander in with their commercial,
>I see it as about the same as someone crashing a party, breaking
>into conversations, and trying to sell everyone at the party something.

You know though, I've seen many a "rep" type unbatten the
hatches and stick out their heads on forums like this but
few (OK, nearly none) get it right. The truth be known I
for one wouldn't mind having the place swarming with them as
long as they'd maybe minor in the Rob Lee School Of How To
Do It Right.

Hey! A guy can dream the improbable, can't he?

>It was one of the milder spam's that I've seen, but it's still a
>pork product in a can with that disgusting jelly stuff on it.

And what's up with that iridescent color (colour David) on
that stuff anyway?

UA100

Dave Hinz wrote:
something to think about next time you're
> sweeping out your inbox.
>

Or getting blade guides for my bandsaw!

John

Hopefully (but I doubt it) the gentleman will read your posts and take it to
heart.

Bob S.


"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:01:15 GMT, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > I agree that a vendor that doesn't contribute but wants our business is
a
> > bit on the sly side but... Let's invite him to join in and provide some
> > guidance / advice on his products. We get some tips/hints and he gets a
> > world-wide audience. His ad was well done I might ad.
>
> Perhaps, but he's going about it backwards if he wants me to consider
> buying anything from him. In one of the VW auto groups, there's
> a guy there (John) who is _very_ helpful and an active participant.
> Picture Charlie Self, but with VW Beetle stuff. Months into
> reading the group, I realized that he was also the person selling
> restoration products, repair parts, and all that, that people were
> refering to by vendor name (rather than his name, y'see, so it wasn't
> obvious).
>
> To contrast, if it's someone who hasn't participated (and/or
> contributed) in a group and they wander in with their commercial,
> I see it as about the same as someone crashing a party, breaking
> into conversations, and trying to sell everyone at the party something.
>
> It was one of the milder spam's that I've seen, but it's still a
> pork product in a can with that disgusting jelly stuff on it.
>

Dave,

I agree that a vendor that doesn't contribute but wants our business is a
bit on the sly side but... Let's invite him to join in and provide some
guidance / advice on his products. We get some tips/hints and he gets a
world-wide audience. His ad was well done I might ad.

Bob S.


"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:05:50 -0400, Carter <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Sorry about the off topic post, but we here at Carter Products are happy
> > to announce we just turned 75! and we wanted you to share in the
> > celebration.
>
> Hm. You know, it's one thing when a regular participant and
> contributor here also sells stuff, it's an entirely different thing
> when someone who doesn't, comes in with an ad. Maybe I've missed
> it, but it looks to me like you're just using a forum you don't
> contribute to for free advertising, is that the case here?
>
>

Carter wrote:

> Please excuse the extremely long post but I felt a response was
> necessary.
>
> I do take things like this to heart and am happy to contribute where I
> can. However I have the unenviable position of being caught between two
> ideals. The first being that I’m the newly appointed Director of Media
> Services for the Carter Products Company, and thus its my job to get the
> word out anyway I can about our products. The other being that I’m sure
> you would rather get product advice from someone who has used a product,
> not someone who also sells it. [snip of explanatory material]

Lee,
I personally have no problem with your original post, in fact I thought
it rather well done. wRECkers can be a cantankerous bunch of old farts
and fartettes, but with a few exceptions, we are fair and will slather
friend and foe alike with kudos and derision. Stick around. If you see
a question that one of your products can solve, have at it. If it's
great, you will hear about it. If it sucks, well ...

That said, if you need beta testing of your products, I just happen to
have this Delta 14"... ;-)

mahalo,
jo4hn

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> Robin Lee does that often. He is held in high regard, we know his company,
> we know his products, but he answers questions of general interest when he
> can. He also answer questions directed to Lee Valley products when
> appropriate. He NEVER steps in and says don't buy brand X, but my stuff
> instead. Google up his posts for some guidance.

Good idea. Jim Ray of McFeely's also lurks and contributes when
he can - you might read a few of his, as well, if you aren't
comfortable.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA