So this is what heaven's like (jigsaw)

LRod <[email protected]> wrote:
: [amazon reviews and magazine polls snipped]

: While I don't dispute the existence of any of those things you quoted,
: my experience has long been that they don't have much value in the
: real world. The installed base alone of Bosch vs Freud is enough to
: skew the answers to the poll questions. But I concede that you can
: count that as research to the extent that the results are virtually
: valueless.


I disagree. Reviews posted on Amazon, and the polls cited, are input from
real owners. So long as there are enough that the averaging of the
ratings will wash out any extreme outliers (like the nit that gave rthe
Freud saw a 1-star rating due to operator error), they are substantial and
useful.

-- Andy Barss

In article <[email protected]>,
"Thomas Satrom" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I learned a long time ago that there is almost no upside to doing
> after-the-fact comparison shopping. Since you already bought the
> Freud (FJ85 jigsaw), my advice would be to concentrate on thinking
> about what a great deal you got on just the right new tool and not
> give someone a chance to say something that will cause you to have a
> Homer Simpson "D'oh" moment.:)

You are absolutely right. Anyway, I did a lot of research BEFORE buying,
so I'm not really expecting anyone to say I made a huge mistake.
However, I was really looking for "obscure" advantages or problems--more
like little known or undocumented fine points.

The only real criticism I have is that the user manual is rudimentary to
a fault and misleading about how far in to push or how much force to use
to seat the blade. However, once you get it right, it is a "no-brainer"
thereafter and the Freud quick mount feature seems to be very good.

Like you, I learned a long-time ago not to look at prices and reviews of
tools AFTER buying them.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

In article <[email protected]>,
LRod <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:04:45 -0500, "K.-Benoit Evans"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >...I did a lot of research BEFORE buying,
>
> You couldn't have done too much research. In all the years I've been
> on the internet, the Bosch is far and away the most recommended jigsaw
> with the more recent Milwaukee receiving accolades, too. The Festool
> is a well regarded late entry also.
>
> The Dewalt is generally poorly reviewed because of chintzy internals
> and I don't remember a single reference to the Freud. Even the
> Porter-Cable, which no one seems to care for very much, comes in 4th
> or 5th.
>
> How you wound up with a Freud after doing "a lot of resarch" is beyond
> me.
>
> LRod

I guess reading is not your forte. As I said, I had to disregard the
Bosch and the Dewalt (both of which are always mentioned here, with the
Bosch being the runaway favorite) because the price was beyond my budget.

The Freud was recommended in a review in Fine Woodworking magazine and
mentioned in a thread on rec.woodworking as a reasonable, lower-priced
alternative for the Bosch (where price was an object). In the Fine
Woodworking review, the only criticism of the Freud was that the handle
was too thick. Like the guys here, the FW article rated the Bosch 1587
as no. 1 and and Dewalt DW321 as no. 2.

There are 20 reviews for the Freud F85 on amazon.com. All but one person
gave it a 4 or a 5. The odd man out gave it a 1, apparently because he
couldn't figure out how to seat a blade properly and then waited over a
year before contacting Freud about that and other problems and they (he
said) gave him the brush off.

On the WWA tool survey, the median total score for all jigsaws was 72.6.
The Bosch 1587AVS total average score was 78.7 and the Freud total
average score was 76.7 (only one point difference). The Dewalt 321 was a
poor 48 but there was only one review for it.

On specific features, the overall average rating for the Bosch was 4.2
out of a possible 5 and the rating for the Freud was 5 out of 5. On the
would-you-buy-it-again question, the Bosch was 4.8 and the Freud was
4.5. For overall cut quality, the Bosch was rated 4.6 and the Freud 4.3.

Considering the difference in price, almost $75 Canadian in my case, the
Freud is a lot of jigsaw for the money. How long will it last? Who
knows. The aveage age of the Freuds reviewed on the WWA site was about 3
years.

Is it the best on the market? No. Is it good value for the price and
above average in perforance? I think so.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:44:29 -0500, "K.-Benoit Evans"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I guess reading is not your forte.

No, I do just fine.

>As I said, I had to disregard the Bosch and the Dewalt because the price
>was beyond my budget.

Yes you did. That was not my point. Apparently that forte stuff
strikes home.

>(both of which are always mentioned here, with the Bosch being the runaway favorite)

Well, I've been reading jigsaw threads for a long time, and while you
are right about the Bosch, the DeWalt is nowhere near "always
mentioned." In the few times it is mentioned, it's nearly always
negatively.

As I also said, the Freud is so infrequently mentioned that it's below
the radar when the question "what jigsaw to buy" is asked here and in
other woodworking fora that I frequent.

[amazon reviews and magazine polls snipped]

While I don't dispute the existence of any of those things you quoted,
my experience has long been that they don't have much value in the
real world. The installed base alone of Bosch vs Freud is enough to
skew the answers to the poll questions. But I concede that you can
count that as research to the extent that the results are virtually
valueless.

>Is it the best on the market? No.

No argument there.

>Is it good value for the price and above average in perforance? I think so.

As long as you're happy.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

I learned a long time ago that there is almost no upside to doing
after-the-fact comparison shopping. Since you already bought the Freud, my
advice would be to concentrate on thinking about what a great deal you got
on just the right new tool and not give someone a chance to say something
that will cause you to have a Homer Simpson "D'oh" moment.:)
"K.-Benoit Evans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, I finally got rid of my OLD Black and Decker Jigsaw that I think I
> paid about $30 for at least 10 years ago.
>
> The Dewalt and Bosch models that everyone praises were priced to high
> for my budget, so I bought a Freud FJ85.
>
> What a difference--like night and day. The old B&D cuts like a dull
> hatchet compared to the Freud.
>
> I got the Freud because I found some messages in the Google archive that
> suggested it as a lower-priced alternative to the Dewalt and Bosch.
>
> Does anyone have any remarks about the Freud FJ85--problems, advantages,
> etc.?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Benoit Evans

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:04:45 -0500, "K.-Benoit Evans"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>...I did a lot of research BEFORE buying,

You couldn't have done too much research. In all the years I've been
on the internet, the Bosch is far and away the most recommended jigsaw
with the more recent Milwaukee receiving accolades, too. The Festool
is a well regarded late entry also.

The Dewalt is generally poorly reviewed because of chintzy internals
and I don't remember a single reference to the Freud. Even the
Porter-Cable, which no one seems to care for very much, comes in 4th
or 5th.

How you wound up with a Freud after doing "a lot of resarch" is beyond
me.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net