Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
many thanks
--
Richard Sampson
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote
: I'm just using a normal marking gauge for this at the moment - a mortise
: gauge is on the cards next time I'm at the toolshop.
Before spending his lolly, Richard might like to look at my web site -
Marking Out Notes - Make Your Own Gauge.
Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email address is username@ISP
username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website www.amgron.clara.net
I was wondering how a
: mortise gauge would help me mark a dead-centred mortise even though
setting
: the width of the mark is trivial (set to width of chisel), but the answer
is
: obvious - trial and error adjustment until marks taken from both sides
: coincide.
:
: I set the gauge to mark a mortise that is obviously a few mm narrower than
: the chisel - light marks made from both faces.
:
: Then, light mark with the chisel from one mark, crossing the other side's
: mark.
:
: Reset the marking gauge so that it bisects the "overhang" on the chisel
: mark - this is easy to do with relative accuracy by eye.
:
: Then mark both sides and it should be pretty much the width of the chisel,
: dead centred on the stock (if you have been accurate in the bisection
: reset).
:
: Conan, I hear what you say about only ever marking from the reference
face -
: this would seem to me to be the only "correct" strategy for accurate
: marking. However, unless you are cutting the tenons by hand, the tenon
: cutting process is generally symetrical - ie you'd not want to have to
: continually reset the fence on (eg) the bandsaw to cut each side of your
: tenon to bang on the marks (which might not be centred on the stock).
You'd
: ideally just want to flip over your stock and cut the other side of the
: tenon, which would result in a symetrical tenon, which might not marry
: exactly with your marked mortise.
:
:
: Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, sorry if it sounded like a trivial and
: obvious question to ask.
:
: --
: Richard Sampson
:
: email me at
: richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
:
:
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
>
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>
> many thanks
>
> --
> Richard Sampson
>
> email me at
> richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
>
>
Graham Blackburn demonstrated his technique at a recent (Oct, Costa Mesa,
CA) ww show. He's a tenon first guy. He determines the tenon width based
on the chisel that most closely approximates the calculated width (I forget
if he's a half or 1/3 guy). Once he makes the tenon, he uses the tenon to
mark the mortice. He marks both ends of the mortice, but only one line for
the width, offset from the face of the stock. He figures if he works off
this one line, the other side will take care of itself (the chisel tends to
remain a constant width).
Cheers,
Eric
RichardS wrote:
>
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
>
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>
> many thanks
>
> --
> Richard Sampson,
>
Several different marking gauges for moritse and tenon
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/MTPrimer9.html
If you wanta great, easy, though not inexpensive, layout/
marking tool check out the Tite-Mark. If the price tag
is an issue - consider the price of the wood you'll need
to mortise and tenon in your current or near future
project
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/MTprimer10b.html
charlie b
Is your marking gage a mortise gage (makes two marks)? If so, I set the
mortise gage to width and check it on a piece of scrap wood. When I get the
width I want, I mark the work piece. If your marking gage is a single pin,
you will have to play with the settings until you get it correct.
I try to get the width marked so that the chisel just kisses the mark on
both sides. When I'm chopping the mortises, I align the chisel on only one
of the lines. I find that helps with my consistency.
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
>
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>
> many thanks
>
> --
> Richard Sampson
>
> email me at
> richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
>
>
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
>
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>
> many thanks
>
Thanks for the responses, folks.
It's just a standard marking gauge, not a mortise gauge - I can see that a
mortise gauge would save time 'cos once it's set to the width of the chisel
the only adjustment is for the offset from the edge of the stock.
Reading Frid pt 1 last night reveals that he recommends a marker cut with
the chisel to the edge of the stock to set the width, and ensure dead-centre
mortise. However, this would only work if the chisel was exactly 1/3 the
width of the stock, which given stock preparation discrepancies and standard
chisel sizes is not a safe bet.
I'm still stuck with the problem of how to make sure the mortise ends up
exactly in the centre of the stock.
I know that measuring is one possiblity, but tricks relying on geometry are
usually more accurate and less prone to "user error"
thanks
--
Richard Sampson
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >>
> > If it is a haunched tenon then another gauge, or the pin on the other
> > side of the mortising guage is used to set the depth of the haunch on
> > both.
> >
>
> Apologies for following up to my own article but that should read
> 'If it is NOT a haunched tenon...set the depth of the soulder on
> the narrow side of the tenon.'
>
I usually find myself cutting mitred haunches when haunches are required,
especially for my current project (2nd out of 8 wardrobe doors just
approaching completion).
My enquiry isn't so much how to set the width of a mortise gauge to the
width of the chisel (as someone else pointed out, use the chisel width as
the guide!!!), but rather given a rail and stile of the same thickness, how
to mark the mortise such that it is always properly centred in the stile.
> Also, you can cut your tenons first, then set the mortising
> guage to the width of the tenon.
>
Hmmm, all guides I have read say cut mortise first, the width of this being
determined by the available width of the closest suitable mortise chisel.
This works for me.
Tenon cutting, unless done purely by hand, is pretty much a symmetrical
procedure - set fence on bandsaw/tablesaw (or in my case set depth stop of
router - sorry, know that hogging off tenon waste with a router is
unconventional, but it's quick and (given my quickly-constructed jig)
accurate), cut one side, flip stock over, cut other side. As long as fence
set correctly the tenon width will be correct for the mortise.
--
Richard Sampson
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
>
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>
Right, I've figured out something that works fairly well for me.
I'm just using a normal marking gauge for this at the moment - a mortise
gauge is on the cards next time I'm at the toolshop. I was wondering how a
mortise gauge would help me mark a dead-centred mortise even though setting
the width of the mark is trivial (set to width of chisel), but the answer is
obvious - trial and error adjustment until marks taken from both sides
coincide.
I set the gauge to mark a mortise that is obviously a few mm narrower than
the chisel - light marks made from both faces.
Then, light mark with the chisel from one mark, crossing the other side's
mark.
Reset the marking gauge so that it bisects the "overhang" on the chisel
mark - this is easy to do with relative accuracy by eye.
Then mark both sides and it should be pretty much the width of the chisel,
dead centred on the stock (if you have been accurate in the bisection
reset).
Conan, I hear what you say about only ever marking from the reference face -
this would seem to me to be the only "correct" strategy for accurate
marking. However, unless you are cutting the tenons by hand, the tenon
cutting process is generally symetrical - ie you'd not want to have to
continually reset the fence on (eg) the bandsaw to cut each side of your
tenon to bang on the marks (which might not be centred on the stock). You'd
ideally just want to flip over your stock and cut the other side of the
tenon, which would result in a symetrical tenon, which might not marry
exactly with your marked mortise.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, sorry if it sounded like a trivial and
obvious question to ask.
--
Richard Sampson
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
"Jeff Gorman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote
>
> : I'm just using a normal marking gauge for this at the moment - a mortise
> : gauge is on the cards next time I'm at the toolshop.
>
> Before spending his lolly, Richard might like to look at my web site -
> Marking Out Notes - Make Your Own Gauge.
>
Jeff,
your website is pretty much my instruction manual on mortise-cutting.
Technique coming along nicely, many thanks for the detailed instructions!
Never again will I feel the urge to pre-drill a mortise, and I'm not
remotely bothered about acquiring a mortising machine.
Time constraints have unfortunately meant that I had to resort to power
tools to cut the tenons, but this works fairly well for me and I'll return
to hand cutting them when I get my hands on a decent saw (considering one
of the reasonable priced axminster japanese rip saws at the moment).
many thanks
Richard
--
Richard Sampson
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
I've tried various methods, and the one I use now is probably
different than most. I take a single wheel marking gage and set out
the distance from the front/face side that I want. (I always
reference my mortises from the front.) I scribe the front of each
mortise I will be cutting. Then I lay the chisel down next to one of
the gage marks and take another gage and extend it (again referencing
the front side of the piece) so it reaches just past the far side of
the chisel.
To make sure it's the width I want it, I take a piece of scrap and
mark both sides of the mortise and check it against the marks on the
scrap. I actually make my mortises a little bit (probably 1/64th or
so) wider than the chisel. I found that if I aimed for having them
exactly the same width, it was too easy to overrun the scribe line on
one side or another. This way I (hope to) keep my scribe marks intact
and can clean them up if need be with a wide chisel set in the mark.
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
It's all in how you use your tools.
Chuck Vance
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 25 Feb 2004 05:13:00 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>> What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>>
>> It's all in how you use your tools.
>
> Paying attention, having good lighting, and wearing clean
> eyeglasses all don't hurt, either.
That helps you get girls?
Chuck Vance
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [snip of good trial and error approach]
>
> Conan, I hear what you say about only ever marking from the reference face -
> this would seem to me to be the only "correct" strategy for accurate
> marking. However, unless you are cutting the tenons by hand, the tenon
> cutting process is generally symetrical
Precisely. I saw them by hand. :-)
Sorry I didn't realize that your original question related to
exactly centering things. It's so rare that I do a m&t that is
exactly centered that it didn't dawn on me. :-) Many times I
intentionally offset them towards the face (i.e., when m&t's meet in a
stile), and other times I just don't worry. As long as they are flush
when they're supposed to be, I figure it's no big deal.
Chuck Vance
"RichardS" wrote in message
>
> Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
>
> How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
>
> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
I use a mortise gauge and a 6" rule. The mortise gauge scribes two parallel
lines, referenced to one edge of your work piece. It is a simple matter to
hold it up to the rule and set both the mortise width and the distance from
the reference edge.
If you'll be doing a lot of mortises, a mortise gauge is a real time saver.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32621&category=1,42936,42948&ccurrency=2&SID=
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/13/04
"RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "RichardS" <noaccess@invalid> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Right, you've got your mortise chisel of the correct width (~1/3 width of
> > the board) and armed with marking gauge, saddle square, etc.
> >
> > How do you ensure that the marking gauge is set just right so that running
> > down both sides marks out exactly the width of the chisel?
> >
> > Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
> > other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
> >
> > many thanks
> >
>
>
> Thanks for the responses, folks.
> ...
>
> I'm still stuck with the problem of how to make sure the mortise ends up
> exactly in the centre of the stock.
>
> I know that measuring is one possiblity, but tricks relying on geometry are
> usually more accurate and less prone to "user error"
>
I *think* the way I've Seen roy Underhill do that is to set the gauge
to the width of the chisel, setting it with the chisel itself--no
rulers are used.
Then he uses the same gauge to mark both the mortise AND then tenon.
That way any offset in centering is the same for both, provided both
are measured from the same side of the piece. If you cut both the
mortise and the tenon right to the center of the line you should
get a perfect fit.
If it is a haunched tenon then another gauge, or the pin on the other
side of the mortising guage is used to set the depth of the haunch on
both.
Let me know if it works. (;-)
--
FF
[email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>
> If it is a haunched tenon then another gauge, or the pin on the other
> side of the mortising guage is used to set the depth of the haunch on
> both.
>
Apologies for following up to my own article but that should read
'If it is NOT a haunched tenon...set the depth of the soulder on
the narrow side of the tenon.'
Also, you can cut your tenons first, then set the mortising
guage to the width of the tenon.
--
FF
On 25 Feb 2004 05:13:00 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>> Is it just guesswork, euclidean geometry tricks, measuring or just some
>> other method? What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>
> It's all in how you use your tools.
Paying attention, having good lighting, and wearing clean
eyeglasses all don't hurt, either.
----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------
On 26 Feb 2004 04:57:51 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> On 25 Feb 2004 05:13:00 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
>> brought forth from the murky depths:
>>
>>>> What's the way that gets the girls.... ?
>>>
>>> It's all in how you use your tools.
>>
>> Paying attention, having good lighting, and wearing clean
>> eyeglasses all don't hurt, either.
>
> That helps you get girls?
Just Molly Mortice.
P.S: Time to clean my computer glasses. I hadn't even noticed
the sentence in question.
==========================================================
CAUTION: Do NOT look directly into laser with remaining eyeball!
==========================================================
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design