Leon wrote:
> If you ever cut thick material with a rabbet on the upper side against the
> fence the fence not being square to the table will cause problems if you use
> the fence rule to set its distance from the blade.
Yes, that's what I did. I had some thick stock up against the fence to
cut rabbets in it and that's when I noticed how imperfect it was. I
can take a picture and post in to ABPW. The gap is enough to be seen
with a square flat on the table and up against the fence.
Maybe I'm looking for squareness in something that's not expected to
have it?
I probably should have built Frank Klausz' tenon jig...that would have
kept the work square to the table.
Mike
Okay, going back through what I typed I think it could be
misinterpreted.
I do have the fence parallel to the blade and whether it's square to
the front edge of the table doesn't matter...What I'm expecting is for
the fence to point up, away from the ground, at 90 degrees to the
table. That is, if the fence extended up further, I'm expecting it's
sides to be plumb to the table (of course I'm not expecting high
precision).
(front view, expected)
....|#######|
....|#######|
....|#######| <-- fence
....|#######|
--------------------------------------------
front edge of table
--------------------------------------------
(front view, actual, exaggerated)
.\#######\
..\#######\
...\#######\ <-- fence
....\#######\
--------------------------------------------
front edge of table
--------------------------------------------
Mike
Toller wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> > perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
> > There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
> > reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
> >
> I don't think I have ever done anything where a perfectly square fence would
> matter. Generally the wood is held to the table, not the fence. There are
> exceptions, like doing a raised panel on your saw, but certainly not common.
>
> How off is it? I have never even check mine.
I think there's some ambiguity about what direction the OP means.
You're talking about the vertical part of the fence not being perp. to
the tabletop, which doesn't matter as you said. Everyone else is
talking about along the horizontal part of the fence, which should be
parallel to the blade and need not be perp. to the edge of the table.
Mark
[email protected] wrote:
> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> perpendicular to the table... the thing is welded together.
Well, nothing is ever perfect...
If the fence is well-built (sides parallel to each other), then you can
look for its
attachment point to the slide/lock mechanism and file the attachment
point
to change the tilt. If it's 'way out of plumb, shimming (adhesive to
hold the shim
in place) can work, too.
It's unlikely Delta or the dealer will be happy about swapping parts,
since the fence
is functional, but they might have some ideas; the slide/lock takes its
angular
orientation from some surfaces that ride on the rail, and those
surfaces might
have some adjustability that isn't obvious.
IMHO a user should sharpen all the chisels he uses, and tune all the
variables of
his tablesaw. I'm even a little disappointed that carbide blades
aren't home-resharpenable.
Toller wrote:
> "redbelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Toller wrote:
> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> >> > perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
> >> > There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
> >> > reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
> >> >
> >> I don't think I have ever done anything where a perfectly square fence
> >> would
> >> matter. Generally the wood is held to the table, not the fence. There
> >> are
> >> exceptions, like doing a raised panel on your saw, but certainly not
> >> common.
> >>
> >> How off is it? I have never even check mine.
> >
> > I think there's some ambiguity about what direction the OP means.
> > You're talking about the vertical part of the fence not being perp. to
> > the tabletop, which doesn't matter as you said. Everyone else is
> > talking about along the horizontal part of the fence, which should be
> > parallel to the blade and need not be perp. to the edge of the table.
> >
> You might be right about what the others think, but his drawing shows the
> vertical not being perpendicular. Doesn't it?
Yes. When I wrote what I did, I hadn't seen his drawing yet. I must
have this thread open for an hour or so, and by the time I had a chance
to post my response he had already put up the drawing. I responded
without refreshing the page, which would have shown the latest info.
Another question is: does the fence lean toward the blade or away from
it? If it leans toward the blade, then when/if the back end of the
blade grabs the piece, it will be carried up and could get wedged in
between the fence and spinning blade. Not good.
Mark
Nova wrote:
> I took a look at a picture of the TS350.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Delta-TS350-Table-Saw-Motor/dp/B0001X216W
>
> If you zoom in on the fence it sure looks to me that there are
> adjustment screws on the "wings" of the "T".
Yeah, there's only one screw, though. It's on the right side, and it's
for the ruler cursor. The two screws that you can't see (they're in
the channel, facing the back of the saw) are to get the fence parallel
to the blade.
Mike
In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8 Oct 2006 18:48:58 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>>perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>>There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>>reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>
>First off, is it out of kilter in reference to the table or the blade?
>If it's parallel to the blade, you've got little to complain about.
If it's parallel to the blade, and *not* perpendicular to the table, then the
*blade* is not perpendicular to the table. That's enough of a cause for
complaint for me to do something about it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
On 8 Oct 2006 18:48:58 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
First off, is it out of kilter in reference to the table or the blade?
If it's parallel to the blade, you've got little to complain about.
Also, my first TS was a Delta TS200, (one step down) and there was
just enough play in it to align the sucker a little manually before
clamping. It's a PITA, but if you're patient and measure from the
front and the back of the blade to the fence each time you move it,
it's servicable. I'd hope the TS300 is at least a little better, but
it's still part of the "Shopmaster" line, and the quality on that
whole line leaves a lot to be desired. On the bright side, Delta
still has a good enough reputation (increasingly undeserved as it may
be) that I was able to sell the TS200 for 75% of the list price after
two years of use in about 15 minutes- took it to a job site, and guys
were all but fighting over who got to buy it. So if you don't like it
and have another $200 or so, I'd sell or return it, and move up to the
low end of the industrial line- the difference is like night and day.
Far as complaining to Delta goes, have at it. I don't know if they
would care, but it can't hurt anything. If it was my $400, I'd
consider that enough $$$ spent to have earned the right to at least
grumble a little at someone if the product wasn't up to par- it's not
like they gave it to you for nothing at that price.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Pics posted to ABPW.
>
> Big deal, or no big deal?
>
> Mike
>
I understand your problem and your picture verified that. You want correct
that.
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:45:04 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On 8 Oct 2006 18:48:58 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>>>perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>>>There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>>>reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>>
>>First off, is it out of kilter in reference to the table or the blade?
>>If it's parallel to the blade, you've got little to complain about.
>
>If it's parallel to the blade, and *not* perpendicular to the table, then the
>*blade* is not perpendicular to the table. That's enough of a cause for
>complaint for me to do something about it.
Yes, yes, I caught that- it just seemed like an honest mistake.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> If you ever cut thick material with a rabbet on the upper side against
>> the
>> fence the fence not being square to the table will cause problems if you
>> use
>> the fence rule to set its distance from the blade.
>
> Yes, that's what I did. I had some thick stock up against the fence to
> cut rabbets in it and that's when I noticed how imperfect it was. I
> can take a picture and post in to ABPW. The gap is enough to be seen
> with a square flat on the table and up against the fence.
>
> Maybe I'm looking for squareness in something that's not expected to
> have it?
No, you should expect to have a fence that is square to the table top.
[email protected] wrote:
> Nova wrote:
>
>>I took a look at a picture of the TS350.
>>
>>http://www.amazon.com/Delta-TS350-Table-Saw-Motor/dp/B0001X216W
>>
>>If you zoom in on the fence it sure looks to me that there are
>>adjustment screws on the "wings" of the "T".
>
>
> Yeah, there's only one screw, though. It's on the right side, and it's
> for the ruler cursor. The two screws that you can't see (they're in
> the channel, facing the back of the saw) are to get the fence parallel
> to the blade.
>
> Mike
>
Are you sure the pads that ride on top of the rail don't turn in/out
somehow. The pads on my HTC fence are adjustable to make the fence
perpendicular to the table.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>
> Mike
>
How far out? These adjustment is some times accomplished by lowering the
guide rails on one end or the other to compensate for the problem.
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>
>Mike
>
IMHO depends on what is meant by "perfectly perpendicular"
If it is far off enough to affect the quality or precision of your
work, then sure, complain to Delta. If your talking about a few
thousandths that you measured with machinists tools, forget about it.
OTOH, if it IS bad enough to affect your work, and the saw is old or
of warranty or Delta can't or won't do anything, the usual approach is
to attach some kind of facing to the fence and square it as needed.
could just be a nice hardwood board or maybe a piece of UHMW plastic.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
On 9 Oct 2006 08:54:28 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Okay, going back through what I typed I think it could be
>misinterpreted.
>
>I do have the fence parallel to the blade and whether it's square to
>the front edge of the table doesn't matter...What I'm expecting is for
>the fence to point up, away from the ground, at 90 degrees to the
>table. That is, if the fence extended up further, I'm expecting it's
>sides to be plumb to the table (of course I'm not expecting high
>precision).
>
>(front view, expected)
>....|#######|
>....|#######|
>....|#######| <-- fence
>....|#######|
>--------------------------------------------
>front edge of table
>--------------------------------------------
>
>(front view, actual, exaggerated)
>.\#######\
>..\#######\
>...\#######\ <-- fence
>....\#######\
>--------------------------------------------
>front edge of table
>--------------------------------------------
Ahhhh... Depending on how bad the angle is, it's probably okay- It
basically means the scale indicator will be inaccurate with different
thicknesses of wood. It could be a problem if you're ripping
something on edge- but then I think I'd make a sub-fence that is plumb
to the table if you're going to be doing that. As long as you've got
is parallel to the blade, and the work slides freely, it shouldn't be
dangerous, just annoying.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>>
> I don't think I have ever done anything where a perfectly square fence
> would matter. Generally the wood is held to the table, not the fence.
> There are exceptions, like doing a raised panel on your saw, but certainly
> not common.
If you ever cut thick material with a rabbet on the upper side against the
fence the fence not being square to the table will cause problems if you use
the fence rule to set its distance from the blade.
[email protected] wrote:
> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>
> Mike
>
I took a look at a picture of the TS350.
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-TS350-Table-Saw-Motor/dp/B0001X216W
If you zoom in on the fence it sure looks to me that there are
adjustment screws on the "wings" of the "T".
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:31:31 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Pop`ö" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:pptWg.810$P92.771@trndny02...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>>> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>>> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>>> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> Assuming you mean what you said:
>> |
>> | side of fence
>> |
>> |-----------------
>> table
>> that angle not being exaxtly 90 degrees, I'm not sure there's much you can
>> do about it and it's not likely to make much difference to anything
>> anyway. For precision cuts you have to get out your ruler anyway, and for
>> construction cuts who cares? I suppose you could grab a file and start
>> modifying the handle accordingly, or grind it, but I don't see the
>> problem. Especially since you included no useful detail other than a
>> general statement about it.
>>
>> Pop`
>>
>>
>One should expect a fence to be square to the table. Most good fences have
>this adjustment to correct for squareness and getting precision cuts that
>are repeatable is not a problem when again using a decent fence. I have not
>used a tape measure to set up a cut in years unless cutting dado's on a left
>tilt.
The key words there are "good fences"- a TS300 does not have a "good"
fence, it has an inexpensive fence. So you make it work, or get a new
one.
"redbelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message > I think there's some
ambiguity about what direction the OP means.
> You're talking about the vertical part of the fence not being perp. to
> the tabletop, which doesn't matter as you said.
It does matter.
Everyone else is
> talking about along the horizontal part of the fence, which should be
> parallel to the blade and need not be perp. to the edge of the table.
Not everyone else. Some maybe.
"Pop`ö" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pptWg.810$P92.771@trndny02...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>>
>> Mike
>
> Assuming you mean what you said:
> |
> | side of fence
> |
> |-----------------
> table
> that angle not being exaxtly 90 degrees, I'm not sure there's much you can
> do about it and it's not likely to make much difference to anything
> anyway. For precision cuts you have to get out your ruler anyway, and for
> construction cuts who cares? I suppose you could grab a file and start
> modifying the handle accordingly, or grind it, but I don't see the
> problem. Especially since you included no useful detail other than a
> general statement about it.
>
> Pop`
>
>
One should expect a fence to be square to the table. Most good fences have
this adjustment to correct for squareness and getting precision cuts that
are repeatable is not a problem when again using a decent fence. I have not
used a tape measure to set up a cut in years unless cutting dado's on a left
tilt.
"redbelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Toller wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>> > perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>> > There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>> > reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>> >
>> I don't think I have ever done anything where a perfectly square fence
>> would
>> matter. Generally the wood is held to the table, not the fence. There
>> are
>> exceptions, like doing a raised panel on your saw, but certainly not
>> common.
>>
>> How off is it? I have never even check mine.
>
> I think there's some ambiguity about what direction the OP means.
> You're talking about the vertical part of the fence not being perp. to
> the tabletop, which doesn't matter as you said. Everyone else is
> talking about along the horizontal part of the fence, which should be
> parallel to the blade and need not be perp. to the edge of the table.
>
You might be right about what the others think, but his drawing shows the
vertical not being perpendicular. Doesn't it?
[email protected] wrote:
> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>
> Mike
Assuming you mean what you said:
|
| side of fence
|
|-----------------
table
that angle not being exaxtly 90 degrees, I'm not sure there's much you can
do about it and it's not likely to make much difference to anything anyway.
For precision cuts you have to get out your ruler anyway, and for
construction cuts who cares? I suppose you could grab a file and start
modifying the handle accordingly, or grind it, but I don't see the problem.
Especially since you included no useful detail other than a general
statement about it.
Pop`
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>
I don't think I have ever done anything where a perfectly square fence would
matter. Generally the wood is held to the table, not the fence. There are
exceptions, like doing a raised panel on your saw, but certainly not common.
How off is it? I have never even check mine.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The sides of the rip fence of my Delta TS350 aren't perfectly
>>> perpendicular to the table. Is there anything I can do about this?
>>> There are no adjustment bolts, as the thing is welded together. Is it
>>> reasonable to complain to Delta when the saw only cost $400?
>>>
>> I don't think I have ever done anything where a perfectly square fence
>> would matter. Generally the wood is held to the table, not the fence.
>> There are exceptions, like doing a raised panel on your saw, but
>> certainly not common.
>
>
> If you ever cut thick material with a rabbet on the upper side against the
> fence the fence not being square to the table will cause problems if you
> use the fence rule to set its distance from the blade.
That's true, but I have always cut rabbets as my last operation, so it
probably wouldn't come up much.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That's true, but I have always cut rabbets as my last operation, so it
> probably wouldn't come up much.
Suppose you want the 45 the edge of a board than then the 45 the opposite
edge of the board. Same Problem with a fence that is not square to the
table.