I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. I dropped it a
couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
plans.
Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
Now I have a nearly new Jet, and no intent to buy a new saw, but I've
found the new model Unisaw interesting since it was announced last
year, and I was expecting a detailed review of the Unisaw, what works,
what does not, etc.
I flip right to page 19 and find...
An AD?
A freakin' fold out AD is the cover story??
Yep. Page 19 is a fold out Delta ad wrapped around a description of
four rabbet joints. The entire "test run" was described in the
subtitle, two sentences: "We were pleased to have the chance to put a
pre-production version of Delta's new Unisaw through its paces. The
first American-built table saw in some years, it performed with flying
colors in our author's wood shop." The rest of the "article" (six
whole paragraphs!) was a generic method of creating rabbets with a
table saw. Within the actual article there was NO mention of the
Unisaw. The accompanying photos could have been made with any saw,
though on two you might see the riving knife if you look closely.
If all that "America's leading woodworking authority" can find to say
about the Unisaw is that it can cut rabbets with "flying colors", I
think it will be easy to let this subscription lapse next time. Oh,
wait. They never SAID the Unisaw could cut rabbets. They didn't say it
could cut anything, only that it was pacing around the shop. Maybe it
vibrates a lot?
If you see this one on the newsstand, I'd suggest you leave it there.
And don't be enticed by the "BONUS Innovator's Tool Catalog" which is
also splashed on the cover. That little gem is an eight page Rockler
ad.
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub to
>>>see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm just
>>>a novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints, there's
>>>no connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article" inside...
>>
>>
>> This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone that
>> can check on things working there
>>
>> The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the last
>> minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of our
>> website for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive overview of the
>> saw, as promised on the cover. You can find that video by clicking on the
>> "More on the Web" tab of www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
>> www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
>>
>>
>> That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two places,
>> and got left out both places, which was an error.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Joanna Takes
>> Senior Editor
>
> That makes a lot of sense, "Buy the magazine so you can read the articles
> on the web."???
>
>
Pixels and bytes cost a lot less than paper, printing and postage.
"Nova" wrote ...
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub
>>>>>to see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm
>>>>>just a novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints,
>>>>>there's no connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article"
>>>>>inside...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone that
>>>>can check on things working there
>>>>
>>>>The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the last
>>>>minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of our
>>>>website for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive overview of the
>>>>saw, as promised on the cover. You can find that video by clicking on
>>>>the "More on the Web" tab of www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
>>>>www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two places,
>>>>and got left out both places, which was an error.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>Joanna Takes
>>>>Senior Editor
>>>
>>>That makes a lot of sense, "Buy the magazine so you can read the articles
>>>on the web."???
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Pixels and bytes cost a lot less than paper, printing and postage.
>>
>
> I wonder how long people will be willing to pay $25.00 per year for a
> subscription to a web index?
>
It is happening now. I just got a PC e-zine and it is totally unreadable. I
tried several times and was never able to get by page seven. They have a
new "reader" that does not allow you to read the magazine. I wonder who
made that brilliant biz/software decision.
I noticed the same thing. I really thought I had just missed the
article. Putting together a plywood box held together with brads
didn't really seem like they were putting the latest Unisaw thru its
paces.
BTW, the latest FWW came with a "wrapper" that looked just like a
normal FWW cover, except it had a Jet advert as the cover photo. Until
I realized it was just a wrapper, it made me think FWW had sold out
too.
"Larry Kraus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. I dropped it a
> couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
> finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
> I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
> plans.
>
> Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
> cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
> TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
> new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
Hummm.. what is wrong with that magazine. There are American built table
saws other than Delta, I wonder what Northfield Foundry has to say about
that.
http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/
Not cheap but maybe thay are talking about machinery that most any one can
afford.
On Mar 4, 9:31=A0pm, "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Kraus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. =A0I dropped it a
> > couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
> > finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
> > I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
> > >snip
>
> I subscribed to WWJ back in the 80's. When I became more energized in woo=
d
> working after a long lay-off, I subscribed again. I found their articles =
to
> be a shadow of what they used to be. I dropped it after a year. Doesn't
> Rockler own it now?
I thought Rockler owned it too. That is why I dropped it. Better
mags out there that aren't a front for a retailer.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub to
>>see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm just a
>>novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints, there's no
>>connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article" inside...
>
>
> This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone that can
> check on things working there
>
> The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the last
> minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of our website
> for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive overview of the saw, as
> promised on the cover. You can find that video by clicking on the "More on
> the Web" tab of www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
> www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
>
>
> That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two places, and
> got left out both places, which was an error.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Joanna Takes
> Senior Editor
>
>
That makes a lot of sense, "Buy the magazine so you can read the
articles on the web."???
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub to
see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm just a
novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints, there's no
connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article" inside...
Matt
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:07035f13-37e2-4600-acbd-216870de9cfd@a39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>I noticed the same thing. I really thought I had just missed the
> article. Putting together a plywood box held together with brads
> didn't really seem like they were putting the latest Unisaw thru its
> paces.
>
> BTW, the latest FWW came with a "wrapper" that looked just like a
> normal FWW cover, except it had a Jet advert as the cover photo. Until
> I realized it was just a wrapper, it made me think FWW had sold out
> too.
>
"Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub to
> see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm just a
> novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints, there's no
> connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article" inside...
This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone that can
check on things working there
The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the last
minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of our website
for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive overview of the saw, as
promised on the cover. You can find that video by clicking on the "More on
the Web" tab of www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two places, and
got left out both places, which was an error.
Sincerely,
Joanna Takes
Senior Editor
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two
>>> places, and got left out both places, which was an error.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Joanna Takes
>>> Senior Editor
>>>
>> Personally, that wouldn't do a thing for me, as far as "forgiving" a
>> magazine.. An ad with a note to go to a web site is NOT the same as
>> reading the review in a magazine.. IMO, If I want to see a web vid,
>> why subscribe to a magazine?
>
> That is an annoying trend in the media. Earth to publishers, if I wanted
> to watch a damned video I'd turn on the the TV.
The Hartford Courant has shrunk its pages and is putting more on hte web.
I'm considering dropping the paper too as there is less and less to read.
Larry Kraus wrote:
> Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
> cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
> TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
> new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
> I flip right to page 19 and find...
>
> An AD?
>
> A freakin' fold out AD is the cover story??
I saw that issue on the newsstand and flipped through it briefly. I
figured I must have missed the actual article, but didn't have time to
go back and look for it.
Pretty sad.
Chris
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub to
>>>>see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm just
>>>>a novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints, there's
>>>>no connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article" inside...
>>>
>>>
>>>This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone that
>>>can check on things working there
>>>
>>>The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the last
>>>minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of our
>>>website for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive overview of the
>>>saw, as promised on the cover. You can find that video by clicking on the
>>>"More on the Web" tab of www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
>>>www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
>>>
>>>
>>>That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two places,
>>>and got left out both places, which was an error.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Joanna Takes
>>>Senior Editor
>>
>>That makes a lot of sense, "Buy the magazine so you can read the articles
>>on the web."???
>>
>>
>
> Pixels and bytes cost a lot less than paper, printing and postage.
>
I wonder how long people will be willing to pay $25.00 per year for a
subscription to a web index?
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>?
>>
>> That is an annoying trend in the media. Earth to publishers, if I wanted
>> to watch a damned video I'd turn on the the TV.
>
> The Hartford Courant has shrunk its pages and is putting more on hte web.
> I'm considering dropping the paper too as there is less and less to read.
All written media seems to be truth and relevance challenged. It's sad, I
suppose the younger generations don't have time to read.
When the content is mostly balderdash, it's not worth having in your house.
I still read FWW and Popular Woodworking. I'm tired of their tool
evaluations though. I would rather read Garrett Hack, Underhill, Schwarz,
Becksvoort, and crew. I'm not interested which chisel some reviewer likes
best. :-)
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> We all know that advertising pays for the magazine, but I thought that
much
> too blatant a ruse for the cover. Have they no shame? When you run ads
as
> the cover story you have to wonder about any "test" results in any product
> reviews. I feel they have lost all integrity in that respect.
Aside from warning some potential subscribers, it doesn't do to much good to
rant about it here. A letter to the publisher while unlikely to produce any
tangible results might possibly get a subscription refund. At the very
least, it lets one direct some anger at the ones responsible.
I purchased some Paulin wall anchors not too long ago. Out of 8 wall
anchors, five of them failed when trying to tighten them down as per the
instructions for usage. I mailed them the packages, the failed parts and a
really nasty letter to the company telling them what I thought of their
product, that I didn't want a refund or a reply and that I'd never use any
of their products again.
*That* made me feel better.
"Larry Kraus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
> cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
> TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
> new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
>
> Now I have a nearly new Jet, and no intent to buy a new saw, but I've
> found the new model Unisaw interesting since it was announced last
> year, and I was expecting a detailed review of the Unisaw, what works,
> what does not, etc.
>
> I flip right to page 19 and find...
>
> An AD?
>
> A freakin' fold out AD is the cover story??
>
> Yep. Page 19 is a fold out Delta ad wrapped around a description of
> four rabbet joints.
We all know that advertising pays for the magazine, but I thought that much
too blatant a ruse for the cover. Have they no shame? When you run ads as
the cover story you have to wonder about any "test" results in any product
reviews. I feel they have lost all integrity in that respect.
You should send this as a letter to the editor. Maybe you can shame
them into doing a better job in the future. Most of them really are
dedicated to their work. I wouldn't doubt this was foisted on them by
the publisher and sales staff or maybe it is part of a cost cutting
measure and they have dumped the editors all together in favor of
letting the advertsisers provide all the content.
Honestly, the editors might be able to use your letter as proof that
the buying public isn't stupid and maybe give them some ammo to push
on their management for better behavior.
On Mar 4, 3:47=A0pm, Larry Kraus <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. =A0I dropped it a
> couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
> finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
> I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
> plans.
>
> Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
> cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
> TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
> new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
>
> Now I have a nearly new Jet, and no intent to buy a new saw, but I've
> found the new model Unisaw interesting since it was announced last
> year, and I was expecting a detailed review of the Unisaw, what works,
> what does not, etc.
>
> I flip right to page 19 and find...
>
> =A0 An AD?
>
> A freakin' fold out AD is the cover story??
>
> Yep. Page 19 is a fold out Delta ad wrapped around a description of
> four rabbet joints. =A0The entire "test run" was described in the
> subtitle, two sentences: "We were pleased to have the chance to put a
> pre-production version of Delta's new Unisaw through its paces. The
> first American-built table saw in some years, it performed with flying
> colors in our author's wood shop." =A0 The rest of the "article" (six
> whole paragraphs!) =A0was a generic method of creating rabbets with a
> table saw. Within the actual article there was NO mention of the
> Unisaw. =A0The accompanying photos could have been made with any saw,
> though on two you might see the riving knife if you look closely.
>
> If all that "America's leading woodworking authority" can find to say
> about =A0the Unisaw is that it can cut rabbets with "flying colors", I
> think it will be easy to let this subscription lapse next time. =A0Oh,
> wait. They never SAID the Unisaw could cut rabbets. They didn't say it
> could cut anything, only that it was pacing around the shop. Maybe it
> vibrates a lot?
>
> If you see this one on the newsstand, I'd suggest you leave it there.
> And don't be enticed by the "BONUS Innovator's Tool Catalog" which is
> also splashed on the cover. That little gem is an eight page Rockler
> ad.
"Larry Kraus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. I dropped it a
> couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
> finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
> I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
> >snip
I subscribed to WWJ back in the 80's. When I became more energized in wood
working after a long lay-off, I subscribed again. I found their articles to
be a shadow of what they used to be. I dropped it after a year. Doesn't
Rockler own it now?
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:56:02 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year sub to
>> see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't renew. I'm just a
>> novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the various joints, there's no
>> connection between the blurb on the cover and the "article" inside...
>
>This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone that can
>check on things working there
>
>The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the last
>minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of our website
>for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive overview of the saw, as
>promised on the cover. You can find that video by clicking on the "More on
>the Web" tab of www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
>www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
>
>
>That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two places, and
>got left out both places, which was an error.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Joanna Takes
>Senior Editor
>
Personally, that wouldn't do a thing for me, as far as "forgiving" a magazine..
An ad with a note to go to a web site is NOT the same as reading the review in a
magazine.. IMO, If I want to see a web vid, why subscribe to a magazine?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Larry Kraus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. I dropped it a
> couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
> finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
> I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
> plans.
>
> Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
> cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
> TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
> new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
>
> Now I have a nearly new Jet, and no intent to buy a new saw, but I've
> found the new model Unisaw interesting since it was announced last
> year, and I was expecting a detailed review of the Unisaw, what works,
> what does not, etc.
>
> I flip right to page 19 and find...
>
> An AD?
>
> A freakin' fold out AD is the cover story??
>
> Yep. Page 19 is a fold out Delta ad wrapped around a description of
> four rabbet joints. The entire "test run" was described in the
> subtitle, two sentences: "We were pleased to have the chance to put a
> pre-production version of Delta's new Unisaw through its paces. The
> first American-built table saw in some years, it performed with flying
> colors in our author's wood shop." The rest of the "article" (six
> whole paragraphs!) was a generic method of creating rabbets with a
> table saw. Within the actual article there was NO mention of the
> Unisaw. The accompanying photos could have been made with any saw,
> though on two you might see the riving knife if you look closely.
>
> If all that "America's leading woodworking authority" can find to say
> about the Unisaw is that it can cut rabbets with "flying colors", I
> think it will be easy to let this subscription lapse next time. Oh,
> wait. They never SAID the Unisaw could cut rabbets. They didn't say it
> could cut anything, only that it was pacing around the shop. Maybe it
> vibrates a lot?
>
> If you see this one on the newsstand, I'd suggest you leave it there.
> And don't be enticed by the "BONUS Innovator's Tool Catalog" which is
> also splashed on the cover. That little gem is an eight page Rockler
> ad.
Gee thanks, they charged my CC on Monday for a subscription.
mac davis wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:56:02 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Matt Furze" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The issue is sitting in front of me now - second issue of a 1-year
>>> sub to see if I like it. One more thing like this and I won't
>>> renew. I'm just a novice DIY, and while I learned a bit about the
>>> various joints, there's no connection between the blurb on the
>>> cover and the "article" inside...
>>
>> This is the reply I received this morning. Seems they need someone
>> that can check on things working there
>>
>> The information that got mistakenly left out of the magazine at the
>> last minute was a notice to look on the "More on the Web" section of
>> our website for the 11-minute video which is a comprehensive
>> overview of the saw, as promised on the cover. You can find that
>> video by clicking on the "More on the Web" tab of
>> www.woodworkersjournal.com or by going to
>> www.woodworkersjournal.com/unisawvideo
>>
>>
>> That notice was supposed to be in the magazine in at least two
>> places, and got left out both places, which was an error.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Joanna Takes
>> Senior Editor
>>
> Personally, that wouldn't do a thing for me, as far as "forgiving" a
> magazine.. An ad with a note to go to a web site is NOT the same as
> reading the review in a magazine.. IMO, If I want to see a web vid,
> why subscribe to a magazine?
That is an annoying trend in the media. Earth to publishers, if I wanted to
watch a damned video I'd turn on the the TV.
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:47:52 GMT, Larry Kraus <[email protected]> wrote:
>I recently resubscribed to Woodworker's Journal. I dropped it a
>couple years ago, I was getting too many mags and was having trouble
>finding shop time. They finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse so
>I signed up again. Besides, I have had success with a couple of their
>plans.
>
>Today's mail brought the April, 2009 issue. I was pleased to see the
>cover photo showed the new Unisaw, with the headline "ALL-AMERICAN
>TABLE SAW At last you can buy a U.S.-made table saw again! We give the
>new Unisaw a test run (page 19)."
>
>Now I have a nearly new Jet, and no intent to buy a new saw, but I've
>found the new model Unisaw interesting since it was announced last
>year, and I was expecting a detailed review of the Unisaw, what works,
>what does not, etc.
>
>I flip right to page 19 and find...
>
> An AD?
>
>A freakin' fold out AD is the cover story??
>
>Yep. Page 19 is a fold out Delta ad wrapped around a description of
>four rabbet joints. The entire "test run" was described in the
>subtitle, two sentences: "We were pleased to have the chance to put a
>pre-production version of Delta's new Unisaw through its paces. The
>first American-built table saw in some years, it performed with flying
>colors in our author's wood shop." The rest of the "article" (six
>whole paragraphs!) was a generic method of creating rabbets with a
>table saw. Within the actual article there was NO mention of the
>Unisaw. The accompanying photos could have been made with any saw,
>though on two you might see the riving knife if you look closely.
>
>If all that "America's leading woodworking authority" can find to say
>about the Unisaw is that it can cut rabbets with "flying colors", I
>think it will be easy to let this subscription lapse next time. Oh,
>wait. They never SAID the Unisaw could cut rabbets. They didn't say it
>could cut anything, only that it was pacing around the shop. Maybe it
>vibrates a lot?
>
>If you see this one on the newsstand, I'd suggest you leave it there.
>And don't be enticed by the "BONUS Innovator's Tool Catalog" which is
>also splashed on the cover. That little gem is an eight page Rockler
>ad.
Thank you for the heads up - the subscription form b the computer can
now go directly to the recycle bin.
John