Has anyone used the Marc Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove system? I
emailed a query to the company about what made it
better/stronger/worth the extra time compared to employing only the
pocket hole joinery it uses and received a reply suggesting I either
catch their show demo or buy their $15 videotape on cabinetmaking.
I'm not thrilled to pay $15 to view an infomercial. I'm sure it's a
quality product and all, I've purchased other Sommerfeld router bit
kits, but there are many quality products that do not solve problems
in a universal way. I read the few paragraphs selling this system on
the web site but still don't get WHY a person would use it, what
superiority it gives to the cabinet project.
Any hints, tips, war stories gratefully solicited --
"Bill Everette" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> PS. Here's the cheapest I've seen the T&G Set.
>
> http://www.routerbitworld.com/product_info.php?cPath=848&products_id=2733
It's not the same as the Sommerfeld set. Sommerfeld has offset the
parts, the groove is not down the center of the edge. I can't see the
superiority of that. What does it add to the strength of the joint for
the added tooling and time? Is this offset joint better than the plain
pockethole connections that it uses on top of the T&G? Pockethole
joints are pretty strong anyway, what does the T&G add to that?
And why do I have to buy a video to get a clear answer to this
question?
Maybe I'm just tired of marketing hype.
.
I've seen the CMT T&G set (800.626.11). Don't think it is Marc Sommerfield
though.
I have the Sommerfeld Cabinetmaking set, but it's not tongue and groove.
"edfan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anyone used the Marc Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove system? I
> emailed a query to the company about what made it
> better/stronger/worth the extra time compared to employing only the
> pocket hole joinery it uses and received a reply suggesting I either
> catch their show demo or buy their $15 videotape on cabinetmaking.
>
> I'm not thrilled to pay $15 to view an infomercial. I'm sure it's a
> quality product and all, I've purchased other Sommerfeld router bit
> kits, but there are many quality products that do not solve problems
> in a universal way. I read the few paragraphs selling this system on
> the web site but still don't get WHY a person would use it, what
> superiority it gives to the cabinet project.
>
> Any hints, tips, war stories gratefully solicited --
PS. Here's the cheapest I've seen the T&G Set.
http://www.routerbitworld.com/product_info.php?cPath=848&products_id=2733
"edfan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anyone used the Marc Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove system? I
> emailed a query to the company about what made it
> better/stronger/worth the extra time compared to employing only the
> pocket hole joinery it uses and received a reply suggesting I either
> catch their show demo or buy their $15 videotape on cabinetmaking.
>
> I'm not thrilled to pay $15 to view an infomercial. I'm sure it's a
> quality product and all, I've purchased other Sommerfeld router bit
> kits, but there are many quality products that do not solve problems
> in a universal way. I read the few paragraphs selling this system on
> the web site but still don't get WHY a person would use it, what
> superiority it gives to the cabinet project.
>
> Any hints, tips, war stories gratefully solicited --
I hear tell there are entire video stores devoted to "tongue
in groove" videos...OH! tongue AND groove!
dave
edfan wrote:
> Has anyone used the Marc Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove system? I
> emailed a query to the company about what made it
> better/stronger/worth the extra time compared to employing only the
> pocket hole joinery it uses and received a reply suggesting I either
> catch their show demo or buy their $15 videotape on cabinetmaking.
>
> I'm not thrilled to pay $15 to view an infomercial. I'm sure it's a
> quality product and all, I've purchased other Sommerfeld router bit
> kits, but there are many quality products that do not solve problems
> in a universal way. I read the few paragraphs selling this system on
> the web site but still don't get WHY a person would use it, what
> superiority it gives to the cabinet project.
>
> Any hints, tips, war stories gratefully solicited --
The video is excellant. It isnt a marketing hype of the tongue and groove
set...it is an instructional video of a slightly different method of cabinet
making. Marc Sommerfeld has brought us the Kreg jig and three very great Kreg
Jig videos (not available now), a video on raised panel door making and now
this.
Marc is a cabinet maker first and foremost. His present position allows him
to advance cabinet making by his designing some systems...in this case the
tongue and groove system. There isnt anything unique about this other than the
groove is offset. You could take your traditional T & G and offset them, but
Marc has made a new set available. You will have to watch the video to figure
out why the difference. Like the Kreg Jig, it is designed to be used as a
system...the new T & G is quite a system...and the video is cheap considering
all the cabinte making time and errors you can save.
Again - a sales pitch without a single sentence in it that says WHY do
this new type of joining for cabinets.
Nobody said MS was not a cabinetmaker. I've purchased his bit sets
before. CMT makes good bits. But WHY can't a person tell what makes
this offset T&G worth spending over $120 for new bits plus learning a
new system? "You will have to watch the video to figure out why the
difference," is not an answer, it's something one says instead of an
answer. It is another way to say, "Buy the video to find out what's so
kewl about this new system." Why is it so impossible to SAY why?
According to the advert, the new offset T&G uses pockethole joints.
What makes the OFFSET T&G better than just plain T&G or just plain
pocketholes?
[email protected] (JLucas ILS) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The video is excellant. It isnt a marketing hype of the tongue and groove
> set...it is an instructional video of a slightly different method of cabinet
> making. Marc Sommerfeld has brought us the Kreg jig and three very great Kreg
> Jig videos (not available now), a video on raised panel door making and now
> this.
> Marc is a cabinet maker first and foremost. His present position allows him
> to advance cabinet making by his designing some systems...in this case the
> tongue and groove system. There isnt anything unique about this other than the
> groove is offset. You could take your traditional T & G and offset them, but
> Marc has made a new set available. You will have to watch the video to figure
> out why the difference. Like the Kreg Jig, it is designed to be used as a
> system...the new T & G is quite a system...and the video is cheap considering
> all the cabinte making time and errors you can save.
Edfan,
My response was NOT a sales pitch at all. I get nothing from Marc or others
selling this setup. I do appreciate a cabinetmaker coming up with a new way to
make cabinets.
For the thousands of people who watched Marc and his people demostrate the
system at woodworking shows, there is no question. They saw the demo, bought
the video and went home with a new procedure.
In that the video is being sold on the Sommerfeld site it means that people
who were not able to get to the demos can find out all the details. The video
becomes the demo/selling tool.
I have watched the demo, watched the video and now have bought the T&G set,
not because I like to throw away my money but I witnessed some really good
ideas in the long (real time) video.
It is no different than buying a book on cabinetmaking...you buy it for
ideas. Probably there are only a few ideas that you dont presently used, but
the value of the book is paiad for by the few tips that you did pick up.
I guess I ahve an inquiring mind that never stops wanting more info...and a
videotape, website, live demo, literature are ways that I feed that. It is
worth it to me. If it isnt worth it to you and others, just don't buy the
video.
As I think back to 89 or so when I got the Kreg Jig from Marc at a
woodworking show, I saw the demo, bought the tape went home and mulled it over
and went back to buy the Kreg jig. THe method works for me.
You've used over 400 words to say:
- You like Marc (as if I didn't)
- Marc designs nice systems (as if I'd disputed that)
- The video is a good course in using the new system (which I have yet
to hear the woodworking reason for buying)
We can't buy everything, where would we put it?
I ask again: what makes this offset T&G held together with pockethole
screws better than plain T&G or plain pocketholes? It costs twice what
a regular CMT tongue and groove system costs from another online
vendor. What makes it worth that?
[email protected] (JLucas ILS) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Edfan,
> My response was NOT a sales pitch at all. I get nothing from Marc or others
> selling this setup. I do appreciate a cabinetmaker coming up with a new way to
> make cabinets.
> For the thousands of people who watched Marc and his people demostrate the
> system at woodworking shows, there is no question. They saw the demo, bought
> the video and went home with a new procedure.
> In that the video is being sold on the Sommerfeld site it means that people
> who were not able to get to the demos can find out all the details. The video
> becomes the demo/selling tool.
> I have watched the demo, watched the video and now have bought the T&G set,
> not because I like to throw away my money but I witnessed some really good
> ideas in the long (real time) video.
> It is no different than buying a book on cabinetmaking...you buy it for
> ideas. Probably there are only a few ideas that you dont presently used, but
> the value of the book is paiad for by the few tips that you did pick up.
> I guess I ahve an inquiring mind that never stops wanting more info...and a
> videotape, website, live demo, literature are ways that I feed that. It is
> worth it to me. If it isnt worth it to you and others, just don't buy the
> video.
> As I think back to 89 or so when I got the Kreg Jig from Marc at a
> woodworking show, I saw the demo, bought the tape went home and mulled it over
> and went back to buy the Kreg jig. THe method works for me.
In other words, NO, you cannot put together a coherent sentence that
asserts any woodworking superiority for this offset T&G system that
uses pockethole joinery -- but you could talk around the question for
over 400 words?
Okay.
[email protected] (JLucas ILS) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >You've used over 400 words to say:
> >
>
> You are right. Much too much time to spend and not be understood.