I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause? I can't
afford to spend too much money getting the thing running because I'm
starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and books.
So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the internal
wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more than my
money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something than take
it to a shop.
Thanks!
-Nathan
On Oct 8, 6:02=A0pm, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <a9e2fa80-255b-4892-a527-164dab6e2...@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
> =A0 =A0N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The windings are sound, it's just the leads that need attention. The
> > motor worked perfectly fine when I tested it, but the leads are
> > needing attention, that's it. If I can get that post and the leads
> > replaced, the motor should be back up to usable condition.
>
> My daughter, a blacksmith, found a similar problem with a 3hp motor on a
> second-hand power hammer she bought. I looked at it but decided it was
> best taken to a motor re-wind company who did the repair for quite a bit
> less than we expected.
>
> Of course they also do proper electrical tests before letting us have it
> back so we have peace of mind about it.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
>
> For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
> See:http://www.barndance.org.uk
Suart, Robatoy, Lew, and everyone else,
Thanks for the guidance and advice. I was able to take some good time
tonight to focus on the motor housing and get the cobwebs and grit
blown out to see what was what. I can see that this is pretty much out
of my capabilities without some assistance from someone who knows what
they're doing.
I went by a motor shop this afternoon and they quoted me a price of ~
$200 for a new Baldor motor. And that ain't gonna happen when I can
get an entire lathe from Rockler for $250. The guy I spoke with gave
me a company name to call tomorrow, but he agreed that usually a 3/4
hp motor gets tossed when it stops performing.
He helpfully mentioned that copper prices were up, though, in case I
wanted to scrap the motor. :-)
Who knows, maybe someone will consider trading me a motor for the
100:1 gear reducer and motor gizmo I've got sitting around...
Thanks again! From a guy who likes to avoid getting zapped about as
much as he likes avoiding spinning metal blades;
-Nathan
On Oct 7, 11:06=A0pm, N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>
> I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
> the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>
> I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
> a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
> cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause? I can't
> afford to spend too much money getting the thing running because I'm
> starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and books.
>
> So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
> together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the internal
> wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more than my
> money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something than take
> it to a shop.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Nathan
Nathan, if the windings themselves are damaged, you can send it off to
get re-wound. Re-winding a motor is usually cheeper then buying a new
motor. On the other hand, if it is only the leads coming off the
motor windings to a terminal board or connection box, whatever, you
can replace those wires. Use an equivalent guage (copper thickness)
and an equivalent rated insulator (the rubber cover of the wire -- a
300V rating is pretty standard in 120V motors). Solder the new wire
to where you cut the old one away and cover the joint in heat-
shrinkable tubing.
If you can't do this yourself, find a friend who will or take it to a
motor repair shop.
N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote in
news:60a144d1-6795-4bac-9f97-63511afc6660@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com:
> On Oct 8, 8:33 am, "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> N Hurst wrote:
>> > I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
>> > cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>>
>> > I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
>> > the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>>
>> > I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt
>> > for a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring
>> > had cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause?
>> > I can't afford to spend too much money getting the thing running
>> > because I'm starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and
>> > books.
>>
>> > So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
>> > together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the
>> > internal wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more
>> > than my money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something
>> > than take it to a shop.
>>
>> > Thanks!
>>
>> > -Nathan
>>
>> Nathan, electricity operates on the prinicple of electrons flowing to
>> a level potential. For any, repeat any, electrical apparatus to work
>> involves some form of a controlled movement of electron flow. When a
>> source of electrical power is connnected through a controlled series
>> of contol devices we get work from it(be it your computer or motor).
>> When there is no control device between a source of excess electrons
>> and a source of a lack of electrons a condition exists called a
>> "short." In
> such
>> a condition all the electrical potential is discharged immediately.
>>
>> All that to say, if the windings are in the condition you said they
>> are a
> nd
>> you plug it in, life will, not may, get very interesting - if
>> spectacular
> .
>> Hopefully the circuit breaker will kick out before you get more
>> involved
> in
>> the show than your beneficaries would have wished.
>>
>> Bottom line, throw it away, it can kill you.
>>
>> Deb
>
> I reread my post, and I was a little inaccurate with my description.
> Sorry about that. Late nights do that to me sometimes. :-)
>
> The windings are OK, and the motor worked just fine before I pulled it
> all apart. The only conductors with issues are the "last leg" wires
> that are the stranded cables that connect from the windings to the
> wiring plate where you connect the AC power cord. I wasn't able to get
> a good look in to the guts of the motor to see where or how those
> stranded cables connected to the windings, so I was mainly looking for
> some guidance as to how they're connected and how I can get to them.
>
> As far as I can tell, the windings and housing is in good shape. I
> just want to see if I can repair the wiring with cracked insulation so
> I can be safe.
>
> I hope that clears things up a little. Sorry for the confusion!
>
> -Nathan
>
When testing suspicious electronics, I like to stay around arm's length
of the outlet so I can grab the plug if anything goes wrong. With a
bigger item like a motor, I think I'd plug it in to a power strip so I've
got a switch a good distance away.
Concrete and metal can withstand fire much better than wood...
15A at 120V is plenty of power to start a fire. (In fact, the lighter on
the grill takes a 1.5V battery to do it's thing.)
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
I've used shrinkable sleeving to repair some damaged insulation where
the rest of the wire was intact. Slide it over the wire & use a hair
dryer to shrink it down. Two layers provide greater abrasion resistance.
Be careful and err on the side of caution.
http://www.arcade-electronics.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=Heat%20Shrink%20Tubing
Tom
N Hurst wrote:
> I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>
> I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
> the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>
> I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
> a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
> cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause? I can't
> afford to spend too much money getting the thing running because I'm
> starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and books.
>
> So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
> together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the internal
> wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more than my
> money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something than take
> it to a shop.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Nathan
In article
<a9e2fa80-255b-4892-a527-164dab6e2caa@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> The windings are sound, it's just the leads that need attention. The
> motor worked perfectly fine when I tested it, but the leads are
> needing attention, that's it. If I can get that post and the leads
> replaced, the motor should be back up to usable condition.
My daughter, a blacksmith, found a similar problem with a 3hp motor on a
second-hand power hammer she bought. I looked at it but decided it was
best taken to a motor re-wind company who did the repair for quite a bit
less than we expected.
Of course they also do proper electrical tests before letting us have it
back so we have peace of mind about it.
--
Stuart Winsor
For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
In article <[email protected]>,
Anon Ymous <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've used shrinkable sleeving to repair some damaged insulation where
> the rest of the wire was intact. Slide it over the wire & use a hair
> dryer to shrink it down. Two layers provide greater abrasion resistance.
> Be careful and err on the side of caution.
> http://www.arcade-electronics.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=Heat%20Shrink%20Tubing
In a motor, my feelings would be to use Silicon rubber or woven glass
fibre push-on sleeving, as both will withstand high temeratues, muck, dust
and grease better than heat-shrink. It doesn't matter if it's a losse fit
over the wire as long as it insulates it properly. A blob of "liquid"
Silicon rubber at the winding end will help secure it.
(Usual disclaimer)
Stuart
--
Stuart Winsor
For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
N Hurst wrote:
> I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>
> I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
> the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>
> I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
> a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
> cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause? I can't
> afford to spend too much money getting the thing running because I'm
> starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and books.
>
> So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
> together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the internal
> wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more than my
> money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something than take
> it to a shop.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Nathan
Nathan, electricity operates on the prinicple of electrons flowing to a
level potential. For any, repeat any, electrical apparatus to work
involves some form of a controlled movement of electron flow. When a
source of electrical power is connnected through a controlled series of
contol devices we get work from it(be it your computer or motor). When
there is no control device between a source of excess electrons and a
source of a lack of electrons a condition exists called a "short." In such
a condition all the electrical potential is discharged immediately.
All that to say, if the windings are in the condition you said they are and
you plug it in, life will, not may, get very interesting - if spectacular.
Hopefully the circuit breaker will kick out before you get more involved in
the show than your beneficaries would have wished.
Bottom line, throw it away, it can kill you.
Deb
On Oct 8, 8:33=A0am, "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote:
> N Hurst wrote:
> > I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> > cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>
> > I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
> > the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>
> > I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
> > a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
> > cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause? I can't
> > afford to spend too much money getting the thing running because I'm
> > starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and books.
>
> > So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
> > together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the internal
> > wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more than my
> > money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something than take
> > it to a shop.
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > -Nathan
>
> Nathan, electricity operates on the prinicple of electrons flowing to a
> level potential. =A0For any, repeat any, electrical apparatus to work
> involves some form of a controlled movement of electron flow. =A0When a
> source of electrical power is connnected through a controlled series of
> contol devices we get work from it(be it your computer or motor). =A0When
> there is no control device between a source of excess electrons and a
> source of a lack of electrons a condition exists called a "short." =A0In =
such
> a condition all the electrical potential is discharged immediately. =A0
>
> All that to say, if the windings are in the condition you said they are a=
nd
> you plug it in, life will, not may, get very interesting - if spectacular=
.
> Hopefully the circuit breaker will kick out before you get more involved =
in
> the show than your beneficaries would have wished.
>
> Bottom line, throw it away, it can kill you.
>
> Deb
I reread my post, and I was a little inaccurate with my description.
Sorry about that. Late nights do that to me sometimes. :-)
The windings are OK, and the motor worked just fine before I pulled it
all apart. The only conductors with issues are the "last leg" wires
that are the stranded cables that connect from the windings to the
wiring plate where you connect the AC power cord. I wasn't able to get
a good look in to the guts of the motor to see where or how those
stranded cables connected to the windings, so I was mainly looking for
some guidance as to how they're connected and how I can get to them.
As far as I can tell, the windings and housing is in good shape. I
just want to see if I can repair the wiring with cracked insulation so
I can be safe.
I hope that clears things up a little. Sorry for the confusion!
-Nathan
On Oct 7, 11:06=A0pm, N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>
> I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
> the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>
> I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
> a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
> cracked or missing insulation. Is this motor a hopeless cause? I can't
> afford to spend too much money getting the thing running because I'm
> starting from scratch and I'm still needing tools and books.
>
> So, I'm confident I can get the post replaced and the motor back
> together and wired up, but is it even possible to replace the internal
> wiring? At this point in time, my time is not worth more than my
> money, so I'd much rather do it myself and learn something than take
> it to a shop.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Nathan
EEluktrisities are my bag. That is why I seldom, if ever, offer
advice... unless we're cruising for a bruising, at which stage I jump
in and shout: "DON'T!!"
Buy another motor. Shop around. 3/4 HP ball bearing motors are all
over the Net and cheap.
r <bzzzzzzzzzzt>
On Oct 7, 8:06=A0pm, N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor
> I was trying to install the new power cord on the motor when one of
> the posts where the wire connects to the motor snapped off.
>
> I pulled the motor apart to remove the broken post so I could hunt for
> a replacement when I noticed that all of the internal wiring had
> cracked or missing insulation.
The insulation you refer to is probably 'spaghetti'
sleeving, not the enamel coating of the internal wiring.
Sometimes rubber-insulated wiring is crimped to the enamel
magnet wire, that rubber used to be susceptible to
embrittlement with age (but that doesn't explain the post
coming loose).
Spaghetti sleeving is replacable, of course, but it got brittle
and cracked, and the post broke free, because of some
long overheating (or chemical attack?). I'd suspect the
permanent lube in the bearings, too.
I'd go ahead and wire it and use it, BUT two possibilities are
disturbing:
(1) there's supposedly a thermal overload device in
there, why didn't it trip?
(2) overheating might be the result of shorted windings,
i.e. the enamel coating of the internal wiring might be bad.
A motor rebuild service can check those possibilities.
On Oct 8, 3:23=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> N Hurst wrote:
> > I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> > cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
>
> Couple of questions.
>
> If you have life insurance, are the premiums paid?
>
> Have you named a beneficiary?
>
> For any motor 10HP or less, don't waste time or money having it
> rewound, new replacement will cost less.
>
> Lew
Yep, yep, and yep.
The windings are sound, it's just the leads that need attention. The
motor worked perfectly fine when I tested it, but the leads are
needing attention, that's it. If I can get that post and the leads
replaced, the motor should be back up to usable condition.
If I'm forced to put much money into it, I'll be forced to just shelve
the whole idea until I can salvage another motor from somewhere else.
My main problem is getting to where the leads connect to the windings.
I can't really tell how the windings are mounted inside the chassis of
the motor, and didn't want to go digging at random trying to figure it
out.
Thanks for all the responses. I do appreciate it. I know more now than
when I started (mainly missing terminology, which has caused some
confusion), so that's something.
-Nathan
PS Lew, I don't think I'd even know what to do with a 10hp motor if I
came across one! The biggest I even have any experience is this 3/4
one and maybe the one in my table saw. I don't know any of the specs
on that one.
"N Hurst" wrote:
>The windings are sound, it's just the leads that need attention. The
motor worked perfectly fine when I tested it, but the leads are
needing attention, that's it. If I can get that post and the leads
replaced, the motor should be back up to usable condition.
Usual method is to remove end bell to gain access.
Removing the end bell usually brinnells the bearings requiring
replacement.
It becomes a loser no matter how you look at it.
Lew
N Hurst wrote:
> I'm working on building a Frankenlathe using an old TEFC motor on a
> cheapo lathe that I got for free because it had a dead motor.
Couple of questions.
If you have life insurance, are the premiums paid?
Have you named a beneficiary?
For any motor 10HP or less, don't waste time or money having it
rewound, new replacement will cost less.
Lew