Deglossing a Waterlox finish: how long until fully cured?

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

> good luck deglossing a medium sheen with the white pads! I just used a
> white one on semi gloss and it turned out every so slightly glossier

Are you suggesting that white Scotch-Brite is too fine a "grit" and that
I should use a coarser one?

I've got some gray pads ...



> I rubbed gently.

Always my intention, regardless of what I'm rubbing. :-)

Ladd

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:


> TRY the white one for a few moments and see what it does; the gray one
> might give you a less glossy surface than a medium sheen finish.

Which is why (pick Supreme Being of choice) invented "undersides". :-)

Thanks for the advice!

Still looking forward to hearing from other folks also.

Ladd

Dave Fleming <> wrote:

> There is NO grit in the white pads.


Yes, there is no grit in the Scotch-Brite pads. Hence my putting the
word in quotes, because it was the easiest way to distinguish the varous
roughnesses of the differing pads.

I would be happy to use the official and possibly less confusing
terminology when I know what it is.

Regards,
Ladd

Dave Fleming <> wrote:


> Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/

An interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to publish the site!
:-)

Ladd

Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:


> I'd give it a week in the warmth and then degloss with Johnson's
> paste wax on the pad.

Received an email from the folks at Waterlox and they said I could
expect the finish to be fully cured in 3-5 days. So your advice is
pretty close. And either time frame is much quicker than I had expected.

As the table will be used in the kitchen, the protection purportedly
offered by Waterlox was one of the major reasons for selecting that
particular finish. Putting wax on top of this finish seems to be
reducing the "little-to-no-care" and "protection from water and other
common kitchen chemicals" aspects. If it turns out that the look
presented by waxing the table is really what I wanted from the beginning
and didn't know it, I'm guessing I should have gone with an oil finish
to begin with.

Unless you were saying that the wax was to be used as part of the
deglossing process AND removed afterward (using mineral spirits or
whatever), in which case I am now more educated than I was before. :-)



> I've used the extra-fine gray or worn-out maroon scotchbrite
> but not the white. How well does the white work on Waterlox?
> The white pads are much less abrasive.


I have both white and gray, so I'll give both a try on the underside of
the table leaves and see what happens. Looking forward to your response
regarding the waxing question above.

Regards,

Ladd

Sawblade <[email protected]> wrote:

> I try to wait a week if I can in 70+ degree environment before rubbing
> out a Waterlox finish.

Received an email from the folks at Waterlox and they said I could
expect the finish to be fully cured in 3-5 days. So your advice is
pretty close. And either time frame is much quicker than the month I had
expected.



>I have tried the white Scotch-Brite, but go
> back to 0000 Steel Wool and wax as it seems to give a more uniform and
> softer glow. Have had the best luck with Arborwax, but have used
> everything from Briwax to Trewax. Buff a little after the wax/steel
> wool and you will have a very fine finish that never fails to get
> questions about "how did you get such a nice finish".


As the table will be used in the kitchen, the protection purportedly
offered by Waterlox was one of the major reasons for selecting that
particular finish. Putting wax on top of this finish seems to be
reducing the "little-to-no-care" and "protection from water and other
common kitchen chemicals" aspects.

However, if it turns out that the look presented by waxing the table is
really what I wanted from the beginning and didn't know it until now,
I'm guessing I should have gone with an oil finish to begin with.

Reading older messages in this newsgroup via Google, I recall clearly
one poster saying that it would be best to use Scotch-Brite instead of
steel wool, as the tanins in the oak, even covered with multiple coats
of finish, would eventually react with whatever small bits of steel wool
are left behind and cause discoloration. Sounded good to me, so I
purchased both white and gray pads.

Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:


> I like to wait a week, especially after a whole lot of coats.
> Finishes should NEVER be rushed, EVER.

Fortunately, that advice will be easy to follow. I'll be experimenting
tomorrow morning with the underside of the table leaves -- the last coat
went on them about three weeks ago as they were the very first thing I
worked on. By the time I get through those undersides, then the
undersides of the table, then the legs of the table, then back to the
leaf tops, not only should I have a better idea of how this process is
going to work, but the table top itself will have well over a week of
warm, dry curing time. :-)



> I had forgotten that you wanted a kitchen table finish and
> yes, you can either forego the wax or remove it later. It
> might help ease the deglossing process.

good to know, thanks.



> Be sure to use them in the direction of the grain. You'll end
> up with a "brushed" finish. The wax would otherwise hide the
> against-grain or orbital scratch marks.

I'm sufficiently new to this whole process that I have yet to learn of
any case when it is good to go AGAINST the grain! :-)

My guess it would usually been at the start of construction when one
wants to remove material quickly and plan on doing lots of
with-the-grain sanding afterwards. Not applicable to my particular
project (adding finish to a purchased, unfinished table), but I can
imagine it being an integral part of many projects.

Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>This article says Murphy's oil soap can work and
> that would keep you from having to use solvents on the fresh finish.
> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00133.asp
> Pumice and your white pads are shown, too.

An interesting article. And the link comparing the various roughnesses
of steel wool, pads and sandpaper was quite helpful.

Thanks!

Photo posted of deglossing test: http://www.windinthetrees.com/table/


Test deglossing of six rag-wiped coats of Waterlox on a white oak table
leaf: Used gray "scotch-brite"-type pad by itself (no wax) on half
closest to camera. Tried a white pad first and as had been predictied by
netizens, its impact was amost unnoticable.

I'm not a big fan of the high shine on the untouched portion on the back
half of the leaf, but I'm a bit suprised at my feeling that the
deglossed portion seems "dead". Having spent the last three weeks seeing
the shine, I'm going to wait a day or two to see if I get used to the
deglossed look before continuing.

Perhaps the suggestions to finish up with waxing need to be
reconsidered! :-)

Advice, suggestions and critiques welcome -- email or leave 'em in the
newsgroup.

I try to wait a week if I can in 70+ degree environment before rubbing
out a Waterlox finish. I have tried the white Scotch-Brite, but go
back to 0000 Steel Wool and wax as it seems to give a more uniform and
softer glow. Have had the best luck with Arborwax, but have used
everything from Briwax to Trewax. Buff a little after the wax/steel
wool and you will have a very fine finish that never fails to get
questions about "how did you get such a nice finish".

I have also used this technique with polyurethane as the base varnish,
to rescue a piece from the dreaded plastic coated look and feel
(grin).

Sawblade




[email protected] (Ladd Morse) wrote in message news:<1g5n7v2.19s7d5w1scwct8N%[email protected]>...
> I have finished applying six rag-wiped coats of Waterlox Original Medium
> Sheen to the new, unfinished white oak table (24 hours drying time
> between coats, light 320-grit sanding, vacuuming and tack cloth also
> between each coat). Current plans are to go over the table with a white
> Scotch-Brite to degloss the finish, and I've read that it is best to
> wait until the finish is fully cured.
>
> Requesting net-wisdom estimates for how long I need/should wait to do
> the deglossing.
>
> The last coat was put on four days ago; after drying/curing in the
> 60-degree basement for four days, the various table pieces are now
> upstairs where the air is 70 degrees with 50% humidity.
>
> Re: using white Scotch-Brite to do the deglossing -- any suggestions for
> a better method also appreciated.

There is NO grit in the white pads. They are for polishing.
Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:22:40 -0500, [email protected] (Ladd Morse)
brought forth from the murky depths:

>I have finished applying six rag-wiped coats of Waterlox Original Medium
>Sheen to the new, unfinished white oak table (24 hours drying time
>between coats, light 320-grit sanding, vacuuming and tack cloth also
>between each coat). Current plans are to go over the table with a white
>Scotch-Brite to degloss the finish, and I've read that it is best to
>wait until the finish is fully cured.

Agreed.


>Requesting net-wisdom estimates for how long I need/should wait to do
>the deglossing.
>
>The last coat was put on four days ago; after drying/curing in the
>60-degree basement for four days, the various table pieces are now
>upstairs where the air is 70 degrees with 50% humidity.

I'd give it a week in the warmth and then degloss with Johnson's
paste wax on the pad. Or I'd use a crappy lemon oil gunk after
deglossing if I weren't going to wax. It will even out the sheen
before it dissipates in a few months. I used that on my first
kitchen cabinet doors (back before I found out why I would always
again try to avoid poly) after deglossing. I oiled 'em 3 times a
year after that.


>Re: using white Scotch-Brite to do the deglossing -- any suggestions for
>a better method also appreciated.

I've used the extra-fine gray or worn-out maroon scotchbrite
but not the white. How well does the white work on Waterlox?
The white pads are much less abrasive.


--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

Ladd,

TRY the white one for a few moments and see what it does; the gray one
might give you a less glossy surface than a medium sheen finish. All
mfg's products don't dry to the same sheen, even with the same general
descriptions like "semi-gloss" or "satin". All you can do is try first
what you think will work, and if the results don't match your
expectation, switch pads. It won't hurt to spend a few minutes using
the white one. You'll know pretty quickly if the sheen is going flatter.

dave

Ladd Morse wrote:

> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>good luck deglossing a medium sheen with the white pads! I just used a
>>white one on semi gloss and it turned out every so slightly glossier
>
>
> Are you suggesting that white Scotch-Brite is too fine a "grit" and that
> I should use a coarser one?
>
> I've got some gray pads ...
>
>
>
>
>> I rubbed gently.
>
>
> Always my intention, regardless of what I'm rubbing. :-)
>
> Ladd

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:23:38 -0500, [email protected] (Ladd Morse)
brought forth from the murky depths:

>Received an email from the folks at Waterlox and they said I could
>expect the finish to be fully cured in 3-5 days. So your advice is
>pretty close. And either time frame is much quicker than I had expected.

I like to wait a week, especially after a whole lot of coats.
Finishes should NEVER be rushed, EVER.


>As the table will be used in the kitchen, the protection purportedly
>offered by Waterlox was one of the major reasons for selecting that
>particular finish. Putting wax on top of this finish seems to be
>reducing the "little-to-no-care" and "protection from water and other
>common kitchen chemicals" aspects. If it turns out that the look
>presented by waxing the table is really what I wanted from the beginning
>and didn't know it, I'm guessing I should have gone with an oil finish
>to begin with.

Waterlox is just an oil finish with varnish in it for a buildable
layer. It's great stuff.


>Unless you were saying that the wax was to be used as part of the
>deglossing process AND removed afterward (using mineral spirits or
>whatever), in which case I am now more educated than I was before. :-)

I had forgotten that you wanted a kitchen table finish and
yes, you can either forego the wax or remove it later. It
might help ease the deglossing process.


>I have both white and gray, so I'll give both a try on the underside of
>the table leaves and see what happens. Looking forward to your response
>regarding the waxing question above.

Be sure to use them in the direction of the grain. You'll end
up with a "brushed" finish. The wax would otherwise hide the
against-grain or orbital scratch marks.


----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
====================================================

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:28:12 -0500, [email protected] (Ladd Morse)
brought forth from the murky depths:

>Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>> I like to wait a week, especially after a whole lot of coats.
>> Finishes should NEVER be rushed, EVER.
>
>Fortunately, that advice will be easy to follow. I'll be experimenting
>tomorrow morning with the underside of the table leaves -- the last coat
>went on them about three weeks ago as they were the very first thing I
>worked on. By the time I get through those undersides, then the
>undersides of the table, then the legs of the table, then back to the
>leaf tops, not only should I have a better idea of how this process is
>going to work, but the table top itself will have well over a week of
>warm, dry curing time. :-)

Wax on, wax off, Grasshoppah. Simple and straightforward.


>> I had forgotten that you wanted a kitchen table finish and
>> yes, you can either forego the wax or remove it later. It
>> might help ease the deglossing process.
>
>good to know, thanks.

Care should be used in removing the wax. Try some naphtha first.
I believe it's safer on varnish. OTOH, you might try leaving it
on and seeing how it wears. You might find it OK if you're not
slobs at the table, leaving wet chunks of food on it for hours or
days at a time. Married people seldom have that problem, but I've
had roommates (eons ago) who wanted to live like that. ;)

Another alternative is a steel wool lube. I've heard about it but
never used it. This article says Murphy's oil soap can work and
that would keep you from having to use solvents on the fresh finish.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00133.asp
Pumice and your white pads are shown, too.


>> Be sure to use them in the direction of the grain. You'll end
>> up with a "brushed" finish. The wax would otherwise hide the
>> against-grain or orbital scratch marks.
>
>I'm sufficiently new to this whole process that I have yet to learn of
>any case when it is good to go AGAINST the grain! :-)

Oil finishes are one of few exceptions to the rule for both
application and buffing.


>My guess it would usually been at the start of construction when one
>wants to remove material quickly and plan on doing lots of
>with-the-grain sanding afterwards. Not applicable to my particular
>project (adding finish to a purchased, unfinished table), but I can
>imagine it being an integral part of many projects.

You're better off always working wood -with- the grain.


----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
====================================================

good luck deglossing a medium sheen with the white pads! I just used a
white one on semi gloss and it turned out every so slightly glossier,
not that I minded. Some folks are big on waiting ages to touch a new
surface with anything. I did mine the next day, but I wouldn't want to
put liquids and a power buffer to it for quite a while to be sure. I
rubbed gently.

dave

Ladd Morse wrote:

> I have finished applying six rag-wiped coats of Waterlox Original Medium
> Sheen to the new, unfinished white oak table (24 hours drying time
> between coats, light 320-grit sanding, vacuuming and tack cloth also
> between each coat). Current plans are to go over the table with a white
> Scotch-Brite to degloss the finish, and I've read that it is best to
> wait until the finish is fully cured.
>
> Requesting net-wisdom estimates for how long I need/should wait to do
> the deglossing.
>
> The last coat was put on four days ago; after drying/curing in the
> 60-degree basement for four days, the various table pieces are now
> upstairs where the air is 70 degrees with 50% humidity.
>
> Re: using white Scotch-Brite to do the deglossing -- any suggestions for
> a better method also appreciated.