OT:We saw Lightfoot last night.

On 4/18/2010 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
>>> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
>>> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
>>> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
>>> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
>>> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
>>> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
>>> Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>>
>> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
>> convenience they are usually very valid.
>>
>> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them as a
>> musician.
>>
>> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
>> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
>> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
>> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>>
>> Record that, and you've got gold!
>>
>> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>>
> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
> Microwave ovens?

Playing like Mark Knopfler does, it's a slam dunk that he played many a
gig for nothing, for the sheer joy of playing. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/17/2010 10:00 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> Skaggs is a criminal<G> So is Vince Gill... Yup, Ricky can really fly.

Ricky Skaggs played on two cuts of Manhattan Transfer's "Swing" album.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 18, 3:04=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 4/18/10 1:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 1:01 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 4/18/2010 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>> On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0 =A0wrote:
> >>>> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>>>> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
> >>>>> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reaso=
ns
> >>>>> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few son=
gs
> >>>>> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
> >>>>> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
> >>>>> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, the=
y
> >>>>> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
> >>>>> Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>
> >>>> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
> >>>> convenience they are usually very valid.
>
> >>>> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them a=
s a
> >>>> musician.
>
> >>>> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
> >>>> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hear=
ts
> >>>> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
> >>>> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>
> >>>> Record that, and you've got gold!
>
> >>>> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>
> >>> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
> >>> Microwave ovens?
>
> >> Playing like Mark Knopfler does, it's a slam dunk that he played many =
a
> >> gig for nothing, for the sheer joy of playing. =A0:)
>
> >> --www.e-woodshop.net
> >> Last update: 4/15/2010
> >> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> > He's coming to Toronto...Massey Hall a nice small venue..GOT to get me
> > some tickets.
> > (I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before:) The Concert For
> > Montserrat at Royal Albert Hall had Knopfler do his Brothers In Arms.
> > No
> > tape-dubbin' there. Just a great big dose of awesomeness.
> > Paul McCartney does a great version of Golden Slumbers on the same
> > DVD. A must have.
>
> Massey Hall is great, if you are short.
> I'm 6'5" tall, always come out with cramps in my legs.
>
> --
> Froz...
>
> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

I am 5'10 63/64" and the main floor is cramped for me. The side
balconies? Forget it.
The sound is pretty good though. Way better than anything else in TO.

On Apr 17, 11:48=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/17/2010 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > I walked by some open windows of the Chapel when The King's College
> > Choir was rehearsing on the Cambridge U(UK) campus. The goosebumps
> > damn near broke my skin. (Truth be told, *I* have never been the same
> > since.. it was a life-changing 'experience'.)
>
> For thick, goose bump raising harmonies, there's also Ladysmith Black
> Mombaza.
>
> First heard them shortly after the release of Paul Simon's "Graceland"
> (one of the best, if not the best, examples of 1980's style
> recording/production values)
>
> Have you experienced "Straight No Chaser"?
>
> ... and Manhattan Transfer, on their 1997 "Swing", one of the hottest
> examples of the concept of "swing", both vocally and instrumentally,
> ever recorded, IMNSH opinion.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

LBM's Oh Happy Day is awesome. (Again.. on vinyl)

Hell yes. I played the grooves off many a Manhattan Transfer LP. The
Boy From New York City wasn't done till they did it. The transfer
(ugh) to CD wasn't done well though... undithered 44K...blech. Sounded
like a raspsody. <<Rob made a funny.

I shall round up the troops in search of "Straight No Chaser". Your
recommendations have done well for me in the past.

On Apr 17, 6:36=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Then again, something like that is almost impossible to capture on a
> recording, it has to be physically experienced, whereas MT lends itself
> well, and can be enjoyed and appreciated, in all mediums.
>

You can't capture anything like that any more than you can capture a
view of the Rockies on a photograph or even a painting.

On Apr 19, 2:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Swingman =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 4/17/2010 4:27 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> >> In article<[email protected]>,
> >> Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >>> On 4/17/2010 3:31 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
> >>>> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ mo=
re of
> >>>> them I could trout out. =A0Including some that are really crappie, o=
thers
> >>>> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. =A0That sai=
d,
> >_anybody_
> >>>> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. =A0Shad, but true. =A0=
And, yes, I
> >>>> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>
> >>>> <*BIG* grin>
>
> >>> And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)
>
> >> Abalone! =A0That _was_ just a start.
>
> >> As for 'muffin left to say', I've got others that are bran new.
>
> >Orange you something ...
>
> As Dave's .sig line says "in every neighborhood, there's one. =A0In my
> neighborhood it's me."
>
> There's only about _one_ matter I have trouble coming up with puns about,
> and that's _dirt_. =A0It takes real work to make the punishment fit the g=
rime.

Humus be busy then, eh?

On Apr 18, 12:44=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
> > tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
> > were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
> > with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
> > that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
> > concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
> > only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
> > Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>
> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
> convenience they are usually very valid.
>
> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them as a
> musician.
>
> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>
> Record that, and you've got gold!
>
> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>
Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
Microwave ovens?

On Apr 18, 1:27=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/17/2010 10:00 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > Skaggs is a criminal<G> =A0So is Vince Gill... Yup, Ricky can really fl=
y.
>
> Ricky Skaggs played on two cuts of Manhattan Transfer's "Swing" album.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

I'll order it.
I watched Elvis Costello's show Spectacles this evening.
John Prine, Lyle Lovett and Ray LaMontagne. They did, as a group, Van
Zandt's Loretta.
Kinda cool that.

In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 4/17/2010 4:27 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 4/17/2010 3:31 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ more of
>>>> them I could trout out. Including some that are really crappie, others
>>>> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. That said,
>_anybody_
>>>> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. Shad, but true. And, yes, I
>>>> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>>>>
>>>> <*BIG* grin>
>>>
>>> And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)
>>
>> Abalone! That _was_ just a start.
>>
>> As for 'muffin left to say', I've got others that are bran new.
>
>Orange you something ...

As Dave's .sig line says "in every neighborhood, there's one. In my
neighborhood it's me."

There's only about _one_ matter I have trouble coming up with puns about,
and that's _dirt_. It takes real work to make the punishment fit the grime.

On Apr 17, 4:12=A0pm, "Tom Dacon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:e0d4b1d8-bcd1-4370-a5eb-56cc8bd680a9@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> > he can still 'do it'.
> > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> > okay with that.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> That takes me back. I remember one quiet mid-week night at the Ash Grove =
or
> the Troubador when he and I were both young, with Gordon doing a solo set=
to
> a room of no more than a dozen, just him and his six-string and another g=
uy
> called "Red" backing him on 12-string. He was probably about 30 or a litt=
le
> more, I was an aspiring but not very good folksinger in my middle 20's. S=
ome
> people say he had the best voice in folk, in those days.
>
> Tom

That would have been Red Shea. He passed away almost 2 years ago. He
was a finger-picker from the Kotke way of getting things done. Even
though he had extraordinary picking skills, he always stayed tasty.

Lightfoot has a very distinctive voice but what made him was his song
writing ability. That and Elvis doing his Early Morning Rain.

On 4/17/2010 10:58 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote
>>
>> Have you experienced Manhattan Transfer?
>
> Yep, they did a concert at a local college. It was stunning.
>
> Did you know that they based much of their vocal work on Louis Armstrong's
> trumpet riffs?

Oh hell yes! Many of the "rides" on their albums are vocal's imitating
horn riffs.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/17/2010 10:36 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
>>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
>>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
>>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
>>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
>>> the drummer was.
>>>
>>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>>
>> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
>> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
>> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
>> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
>> need.
>>
>
> Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. :-)

LOL <but preaching to the choir any way>.

Hey, like I've told any number of drummer's I've worked with in the past
(those who never grasped the concept, present company excluded because
I've heard you play on that webcast, and when I said your snare "sounded
great", it wasn't all bout the tone, it was a large part the "feel") ...
_it's all in the back beat_.

A well placed, in time, snare drum is one of the most uplifting things
in music ... from a strong mandolin back beat in a grooving bluegrass
tune, to the metronomic snare in a rock tune, to the well placed
just-behind-the-beat feel of the snare in a blues tunes (that snare
placement that makes the bass player's head bob), to the swing "feel"
added by the snare in a swing tune.

Some drummers are a pleasure to play with on any tune. Those who only
know one thing, when it comes to placing that back beat in a measure,
are a nightmare on anything that is not there particular thing.

It's unfortunate how many drummers fall into that category.

Ask any bass player who has spent more time standing next to a drummer
on stage than many people have breathing. <g>

It's all in the back beat ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e0d4b1d8-bcd1-4370-a5eb-56cc8bd680a9@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> he can still 'do it'.
> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> okay with that.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg


Where?
You didn't go to Interlochen did you?

Max

"Swingman" wrote:

> Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few
> musicians who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it
> is indeed awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.
-------------------------------------------
Even Sinarta had problems walking away on top.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few musicians
>> who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it is indeed
>> awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.
> -------------------------------------------
> Even Sinarta had problems walking away on top.
>
At least old blue eyes had an exit song. (My Way)

"Swingman" wrote
>
> Have you experienced Manhattan Transfer?

Yep, they did a concert at a local college. It was stunning.

Did you know that they based much of their vocal work on Louis Armstrong's
trumpet riffs?

"Robatoy" wrote

Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!
================

Just be grateful it isn't volcanic ash!!

"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:4bca171f$0
> [email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Robatoy" wrote
>>
>> Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
>> a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
>> one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
>> white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
>> micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!
>> ================
>>
>> Just be grateful it isn't volcanic ash!!
>
> Not yet, just wait a bit ...
>
I lived close to Mt St Helens when it blew. I remember it well. Every night
everybody watched the news for the "volcanic ash report'. Which was
basically which way was the wind blowing.

If the wind is blowing in your direction when an eruption takes place, you
are in trouble. If it is blowing in another dirction, big sigh of relief.
Of course, that means somebody else is in trouble.

Somebody wrote:
(A compliation)

>>> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_
>>> more of
>>> them I could trout out. Including some that are really crappie,
>>> others
>>> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. That
>>> said, _anybody_
>>> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. Shad, but true.
>>> And, yes, I
>>> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>>>
>>> <*BIG* grin>
>>
>>And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)
>
> Abalone! That _was_ just a start.
>
> As for 'muffin left to say', I've got others that are bran new.

---------------------------------------------

More Fish:


A redneck was stopped by a game warden in Alabama recently with two
ice chests full of fish. He was leavin' a cove well-known for its
fishing.

The game warden asked the man, 'Do you have a license to catch those
fish?'

'Naw, sir', replied the redneck. 'I ain't got none of them there
licenses.., these here are my pet fish.'

'Pet fish?'

'Yeah.. Every night, I take these here fish down to the lake and let
'em
swim 'round for awhile. Then, when I whistle, they jump right back
into
these here ice chests and I take 'em home.'

'That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that.'

The redneck looked at the warden for a moment and then said, 'It's the
truth Mr. Government Man. I'll show ya. It really works.'

'O. K.', said the warden. 'I've got to see this!'

The redneck poured the fish into the lake and stood and waited.

After several minutes, the warden says, 'Well?'

'Well, what?', says the redneck.

The warden says, 'When are you going to call them back?'

'Call who back?'

'The FISH', replied the warden!

'What fish?', replied the redneck.

Moral of the story:

We may not be as smart as some city slickers, but we aren't as dumb as

some government employees.

You can say what you want about the South, but you never hear of

anyone retiring and moving north.

"Robatoy" wrote:

> That would have been Red Shea. He passed away almost 2 years ago. He
was a finger-picker from the Kotke way of getting things done. Even
though he had extraordinary picking skills, he always stayed tasty.
----------------------------------------------------
Some years ago, NPR brocast a night of pickin from someplace in North
Carolina.

Ricky Skaggs on mandolin, Doc Watson on guitar & Earl Scruggs on
banjo.

Quite an evening's entertainment.

Lew

On 2010-04-17 15:44:08 -0400, -MIKE- <[email protected]> said:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ThSi1wbqU

Speaking of that song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d0li1lsbxM

Sorry, no tractors.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cde4890b-f97b-4d6c-b125-3db796d10188@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 16, 8:00 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> > he can still 'do it'.
> > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> > okay with that.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> What was the problem?
>

His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
fun.
Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
that's a bit different.)
Like I said... it was awkward.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I saw Gord in concert about 20 years ago in NJ. He kept having to stop and
apologize for forgetting the words - to songs that HE WROTE!

B.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Apr 17, 10:31 pm, "Buddy Matlosz" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:cde4890b-f97b-4d6c-b125-3db796d10188@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 16, 8:00 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > > I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> > > he can still 'do it'.
> > > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> > > okay with that.
>
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> > What was the problem?
>
> His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
> through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
> few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
> younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
> fun.
> Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
> that's a bit different.)
> Like I said... it was awkward.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I saw Gord in concert about 20 years ago in NJ. He kept having to stop and
> apologize for forgetting the words - to songs that HE WROTE!
>
> B.

20 years ago he was still doing all kinds of substances....booze in
particular. A lot of people in the Toronto music scene wouldn't have
anything to do with him for the longest time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd never heard that about him, but that would explain it. But in his more
lucid days he produced some of the best music ever.

B.

On 2010-04-17 12:12:54 -0400, Swingman <[email protected]> said:

>> Did you know that they based much of their vocal work on Louis Armstrong's
>> trumpet riffs?
>
> Oh hell yes! Many of the "rides" on their albums are vocal's imitating
> horn riffs.

perzakly. see Hendrix, Lambert and Ross -- "Vocalese"

On Apr 19, 2:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Swingman =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 4/17/2010 4:27 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> >> In article<[email protected]>,
> >> Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >>> On 4/17/2010 3:31 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
> >>>> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ mo=
re of
> >>>> them I could trout out. =A0Including some that are really crappie, o=
thers
> >>>> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. =A0That sai=
d,
> >_anybody_
> >>>> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. =A0Shad, but true. =A0=
And, yes, I
> >>>> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>
> >>>> <*BIG* grin>
>
> >>> And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)
>
> >> Abalone! =A0That _was_ just a start.
>
> >> As for 'muffin left to say', I've got others that are bran new.
>
> >Orange you something ...
>
> As Dave's .sig line says "in every neighborhood, there's one. =A0In my
> neighborhood it's me."
>
> There's only about _one_ matter I have trouble coming up with puns about,
> and that's _dirt_. =A0It takes real work to make the punishment fit the g=
rime.

Soil in how you approach the topic.

On 4/17/2010 3:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Not to offend anyone, but to me it is the difference between
> performers and musicians.

By any other name, anyone who can sing four, five and six part harmony,
unaccompanied, _is_ a musician. ;)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 18, 11:43=A0am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/18/10 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:13:48 -0500, the infamous -MIKE-
> >>> That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. =A0They never sound as g=
ood
> >>> in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
> >>> 'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...
>
> >> It's come full circle, Larry.
> >> Now, many shows just play the album and pantomime to it.
>
> > Milli Vanilli incarnate, wot? =A0Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
>
> > It's DEPENDS time, folks.<thud>
>
> What is getting very common is to have the road band and singers go in
> the rehearsal studio before the tour, and record the "live" performance
> to a multi-track recorder.
>
> Then, the live show sound engineers have the option of what to mix in
> the house sound, live or recorded. =A0So, essentially, you are hearing an=
d
> seeing what the people on stage are playing and singing.... it may have
> been performed weeks ago, but it's the people you're seeing... their
> performance. =A0If that makes sense.
>
> You're getting a mix of live with recorded that is different every night
> depending on circumstances.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
Certainly never because they 'had' to.

On 4/17/2010 11:57 AM, Swingman wrote:

> Heavenly, when they work together:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhQJPaDwd0c&feature=related
>
> (Don't know if that is Merle Perkins or not, but it sure sounds like it)
>
> I want to go to heaven, but only to get a chance to jam with Merle
> Perkins and SRV.

Well duh! Here is the man himself, and Big Twist (RIP) on the same tune,
live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeuHWGqj_GA

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 4/17/2010 3:31 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ more of
>> them I could trout out. Including some that are really crappie, others
>> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. That said, _anybody_
>> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. Shad, but true. And, yes, I
>> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>>
>> <*BIG* grin>
>
>And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)

Abalone! That _was_ just a start.

As for 'muffin left to say', I've got others that are bran new.

`

On Apr 17, 12:03=A0pm, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi)
wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
> -MIKE- =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> >> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been aroun=
d
> >>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys =
on
> >>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, go=
od
> >>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
> >>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other wh=
o
> >>> the drummer was.
>
> >>> --www.e-woodshop.net
> >>> Last update: 4/15/2010
> >>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> >> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
> >> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
> >> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
> >> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
> >> need.
>
> >Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. =A0 =A0:-)
>
> Well, they say if you slap a bass right, you can play _scales_.
>
> I'm told some guys do it just for the halibut. =A0
>
> The whole thing seems somewhat fishy to me!

GO to your room!

On Apr 18, 1:01=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/18/2010 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
> >>> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
> >>> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
> >>> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
> >>> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
> >>> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
> >>> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
> >>> Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>
> >> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
> >> convenience they are usually very valid.
>
> >> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them as =
a
> >> musician.
>
> >> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
> >> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
> >> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
> >> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>
> >> Record that, and you've got gold!
>
> >> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>
> > Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
> > Microwave ovens?
>
> Playing like Mark Knopfler does, it's a slam dunk that he played many a
> gig for nothing, for the sheer joy of playing. =A0:)
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

He's coming to Toronto...Massey Hall a nice small venue..GOT to get me
some tickets.
(I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before:) The Concert For
Montserrat at Royal Albert Hall had Knopfler do his Brothers In Arms.
No
tape-dubbin' there. Just a great big dose of awesomeness.
Paul McCartney does a great version of Golden Slumbers on the same
DVD. A must have.

On Apr 18, 5:42=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 4/18/10 5:08 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 3:04 pm, FrozenNorth<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> On 4/18/10 1:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>> On Apr 18, 1:01 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0 =A0wrote:
> >>>> On 4/18/2010 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0 =A0 =A0wrote:
> >>>>>> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Squa=
re
> >>>>>>> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the rea=
sons
> >>>>>>> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few s=
ongs
> >>>>>>> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason w=
as
> >>>>>>> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
> >>>>>>> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, t=
hey
> >>>>>>> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
> >>>>>>> Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>
> >>>>>> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
> >>>>>> convenience they are usually very valid.
>
> >>>>>> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them=
as a
> >>>>>> musician.
>
> >>>>>> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
> >>>>>> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your he=
arts
> >>>>>> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaki=
ng
> >>>>>> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well=
!
>
> >>>>>> Record that, and you've got gold!
>
> >>>>>> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>
> >>>>> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
> >>>>> Microwave ovens?
>
> >>>> Playing like Mark Knopfler does, it's a slam dunk that he played man=
y a
> >>>> gig for nothing, for the sheer joy of playing. =A0:)
>
> >>>> --www.e-woodshop.net
> >>>> Last update: 4/15/2010
> >>>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> >>> He's coming to Toronto...Massey Hall a nice small venue..GOT to get m=
e
> >>> some tickets.
> >>> (I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before:) The Concert For
> >>> Montserrat at Royal Albert Hall had Knopfler do his Brothers In Arms.
> >>> No
> >>> tape-dubbin' there. Just a great big dose of awesomeness.
> >>> Paul McCartney does a great version of Golden Slumbers on the same
> >>> DVD. A must have.
>
> >> Massey Hall is great, if you are short.
> >> I'm 6'5" tall, always come out with cramps in my legs.
>
> >> --
> >> Froz...
>
> >> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
>
> > I am 5'10 63/64" and the main floor is cramped for me. The side
> > balconies? Forget it.
> > The sound is pretty good though. Way better than anything else in TO.
>
> Absolutely, the best sounding hall in town.
> Last show I saw was Squires, White and Howe from YES there, absolutely
> amazing, but ouch.
>
> --
> Froz...
>
> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

I saw Prine there a few months back and the seats were great. Main
floor.
Before that, I attended the Rheostatics farewell party at Massey, and
the seats sucked canal water. Left, balcony. I wandered about a fair
bit, which is nice too. Those balcony seats were as bad as the Transat
seats to Punta Cana.

On Apr 17, 10:31=A0pm, "Buddy Matlosz" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:cde4890b-f97b-4d6c-b125-3db796d10188@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 16, 8:00 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > > I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to preten=
d
> > > he can still 'do it'.
> > > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> > > okay with that.
>
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> > What was the problem?
>
> His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
> through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
> few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
> younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
> fun.
> Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
> that's a bit different.)
> Like I said... it was awkward.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I saw Gord in concert about 20 years ago in NJ. He kept having to stop an=
d
> apologize for forgetting the words - to songs that HE WROTE!
>
> B.

20 years ago he was still doing all kinds of substances....booze in
particular. A lot of people in the Toronto music scene wouldn't have
anything to do with him for the longest time.

On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> he can still 'do it'.
> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> okay with that.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg

What was the problem?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 17, 1:07=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/17/2010 11:57 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
> > Heavenly, when they work together:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DnhQJPaDwd0c&feature=3Drelated
>
> > (Don't know if that is Merle Perkins or not, but it sure sounds like it=
)
>
> > I want to go to heaven, but only to get a chance to jam with Merle
> > Perkins and SRV.
>
> Well duh! Here is the man himself, and Big Twist (RIP) on the same tune,
> live:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjeuHWGqj_GA
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!

In article <7e53a7a8-0839-441b-adbe-11060b9696d4@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> robatoy write:
>On Apr 17, 12:03 pm, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi)
>wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -MIKE-  <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>> >> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]>  wrote:
>> >>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
>> >>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
>> >>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
>> >>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
>> >>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
>> >>> the drummer was.
>>
>> >>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> >>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>> >>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>>
>> >> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
>> >> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
>> >> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
>> >> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
>> >> need.
>>
>> >Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed.    :-)
>>
>> Well, they say if you slap a bass right, you can play _scales_.
>>
>> I'm told some guys do it just for the halibut.  
>>
>> The whole thing seems somewhat fishy to me!
>
>GO to your room!

Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ more of
them I could trout out. Including some that are really crappie, others
that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. That said, _anybody_
engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. Shad, but true. And, yes, I
not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.

<*BIG* grin>

On 4/17/2010 12:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

> That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. They never sound as good
> in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
> 'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...

That's certainly true for many ... then again. I've known a number of
groups that you could simply not capture what they did live on any medium.

First to mind in that regard is New Grass Revival (the later version,
with John Cowan and Bela Fleck). To see them live was an overpowering,
knock you back in your seat, experience. They did with acoustic
instruments (except for Cowan on electric bass), what most rock bands
with towering stacks of amps could not do.

No one, producer or engineer, to this day has been able to capture that
powerful live stage show on tape or vinyl ... it defies the medium.

Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
the drummer was.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/16/2010 9:05 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Apr 16, 8:00 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
>>> he can still 'do it'.
>>> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
>>> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
>>> okay with that.
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>>
>> What was the problem?
>>
>
> His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
> through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
> few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
> younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
> fun.
> Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
> that's a bit different.)
> Like I said... it was awkward.

Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few musicians
who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it is indeed
awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e0d4b1d8-bcd1-4370-a5eb-56cc8bd680a9@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> he can still 'do it'.
> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> okay with that.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg

Retire? Why? Because he was 72? At 72 I could put in a full days hard
work. Built a deck onto the house. 13 x 42 and 12 feet high. By
myself.
But now 2 months away from 83 I am s l o w i n g d o w n.
ww

On 4/17/2010 4:27 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/17/2010 3:31 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>>
>>> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ more of
>>> them I could trout out. Including some that are really crappie, others
>>> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. That said, _anybody_
>>> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. Shad, but true. And, yes, I
>>> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>>>
>>> <*BIG* grin>
>>
>> And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)
>
> Abalone! That _was_ just a start.
>
> As for 'muffin left to say', I've got others that are bran new.

Orange you something ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/17/2010 11:37 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Apr 17, 12:11 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/17/2010 10:36 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
>>>>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
>>>>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
>>>>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
>>>>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
>>>>> the drummer was.
>>
>>>>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>>>>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>>>>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>>
>>>> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
>>>> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
>>>> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
>>>> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
>>>> need.
>>
>>> Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. :-)
>>
>> LOL<but preaching to the choir any way>.
>>
>> Hey, like I've told any number of drummer's I've worked with in the past
>> (those who never grasped the concept, present company excluded because
>> I've heard you play on that webcast, and when I said your snare "sounded
>> great", it wasn't all bout the tone, it was a large part the "feel") ...
>> _it's all in the back beat_.
>>
>> A well placed, in time, snare drum is one of the most uplifting things
>> in music ... from a strong mandolin back beat in a grooving bluegrass
>> tune, to the metronomic snare in a rock tune, to the well placed
>> just-behind-the-beat feel of the snare in a blues tunes (that snare
>> placement that makes the bass player's head bob), to the swing "feel"
>> added by the snare in a swing tune.
>>
>> Some drummers are a pleasure to play with on any tune. Those who only
>> know one thing, when it comes to placing that back beat in a measure,
>> are a nightmare on anything that is not there particular thing.
>>
>> It's unfortunate how many drummers fall into that category.
>>
>> Ask any bass player who has spent more time standing next to a drummer
>> on stage than many people have breathing.<g>
>>
>> It's all in the back beat ...
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> It was always fun to watch Entwistle walk up to Moon and bring him
> back to the what the rest of the band was doing. I have a dozen DVD's
> (Bootleg and otherwise) of The Who proving that if you have a bass/
> drum package. you have 7/8th of a band.


Heavenly, when they work together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhQJPaDwd0c&feature=related

(Don't know if that is Merle Perkins or not, but it sure sounds like it)

I want to go to heaven, but only to get a chance to jam with Merle
Perkins and SRV.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/17/2010 11:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

> There have been virtual dissertations written on the placement of the
> back beat.
> Ahead, right on, or behind. It's a very subjective and "sensed" thing.

In the sense that you can't teach it, I agree. But boy howdy, can I feel
it when attempting to play bass with it.

> Personally, I've noticed that I'm usually in the back seat when it comes
> to driving that bus. :-)

As a bassist, I follow the drummer instinctively ... that's why I say it
is a nightmare to play with a drummer who can't get the feel of the
genre right.

We had a female drummer who sat in with us occasionally who is an
excellent rock and country drummer and much in demand, routinely tours
all over the country and Europe ... very solid drummer, and metromic,
timewise ... but she absolutely ruins a swing or blues tune ... just
can't do it.

That _is_ a nightmare, in a band that plays primarily Western Swing ... :(

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in news:4bca171f$0
[email protected]:

>
> "Robatoy" wrote
>
> Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
> a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
> one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
> white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
> micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!
> ================
>
> Just be grateful it isn't volcanic ash!!

Not yet, just wait a bit ...


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:

> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
> Certainly never because they 'had' to.

There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
convenience they are usually very valid.

Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them as a
musician.

There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!

Record that, and you've got gold!

Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article <[email protected]>,
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
>>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
>>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
>>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
>>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
>>> the drummer was.
>>>
>>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>>
>> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
>> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
>> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
>> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
>> need.
>>
>
>Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. :-)

Well, they say if you slap a bass right, you can play _scales_.

I'm told some guys do it just for the halibut.

The whole thing seems somewhat fishy to me!

On 4/17/2010 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:

> I walked by some open windows of the Chapel when The King's College
> Choir was rehearsing on the Cambridge U(UK) campus. The goosebumps
> damn near broke my skin. (Truth be told, *I* have never been the same
> since.. it was a life-changing 'experience'.)

For thick, goose bump raising harmonies, there's also Ladysmith Black
Mombaza.

First heard them shortly after the release of Paul Simon's "Graceland"
(one of the best, if not the best, examples of 1980's style
recording/production values)

Have you experienced "Straight No Chaser"?

... and Manhattan Transfer, on their 1997 "Swing", one of the hottest
examples of the concept of "swing", both vocally and instrumentally,
ever recorded, IMNSH opinion.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 17, 11:58=A0am, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" =A0wrote
>
>
>
> > Have you experienced Manhattan Transfer?
>
> Yep, they did a concert at a local college. It was stunning.
>
> Did you know that they based much of their vocal work on Louis Armstrong'=
s
> trumpet riffs?

*raises hand*

On Apr 17, 9:10=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/17/2010 12:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. =A0They never sound as goo=
d
> > in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
> > 'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...
>
> That's certainly true for many ... then again. I've known a number of
> groups that you could simply not capture what they did live on any medium=
.
>
> First to mind in that regard is New Grass Revival (the later version,
> with John Cowan and Bela Fleck). To see them live was an overpowering,
> knock you back in your seat, experience. They did with acoustic
> instruments (except for Cowan on electric bass), what most rock bands
> with towering stacks of amps could not do.
>
> No one, producer or engineer, to this day has been able to capture that
> powerful live stage show on tape or vinyl ... it defies the medium.
>
> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
> the drummer was.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
need.

Then there is 'magic time' when harmonies create an illusion of there
being more than the people singing it. Mommas & The Pappas called that
"Harvey came to sing."
I walked by some open windows of the Chapel when The King's College
Choir was rehearsing on the Cambridge U(UK) campus. The goosebumps
damn near broke my skin. (Truth be told, *I* have never been the same
since.. it was a life-changing 'experience'.)

Hollies, Peter & Gordon, CSN & Y, Everly Brothers and many more have
always been on my list of things I like.

Oh... Speaking of drums <g>, Neil Peart is coming to Sarnia dragging
the rest of RUSH along with him. (I will go see them and Weezer, and
Road Hammers.) http://www.sarniabayfest.com/2010performers

On Apr 18, 1:41=A0pm, "Buddy Matlosz" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 17, 10:31 pm, "Buddy Matlosz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:cde4890b-f97b-4d6c-b125-3db796d10188@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Apr 16, 8:00 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > > > I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pret=
end
> > > > he can still 'do it'.
> > > > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > > > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would b=
e
> > > > okay with that.
>
> > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> > > What was the problem?
>
> > His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
> > through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
> > few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
> > younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
> > fun.
> > Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
> > that's a bit different.)
> > Like I said... it was awkward.
>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> > I saw Gord in concert about 20 years ago in NJ. He kept having to stop =
and
> > apologize for forgetting the words - to songs that HE WROTE!
>
> > B.
>
> 20 years ago he was still doing all kinds of substances....booze in
> particular. A lot of people in the Toronto music scene wouldn't have
> anything to do with him for the longest time.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I'd never heard that about him, but that would explain it. But in his mor=
e
> lucid days he produced some of the best music ever.
>
> B.

He wrote some absolutely beautiful ballads. Many.

His problems had a lot to do with Cathy Evelyn Smith. Read up on that
winner.

On Apr 17, 1:17=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 1:07=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/17/2010 11:57 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
> > > Heavenly, when they work together:
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DnhQJPaDwd0c&feature=3Drelated
>
> > > (Don't know if that is Merle Perkins or not, but it sure sounds like =
it)
>
> > > I want to go to heaven, but only to get a chance to jam with Merle
> > > Perkins and SRV.
>
> > Well duh! Here is the man himself, and Big Twist (RIP) on the same tune=
,
> > live:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjeuHWGqj_GA
>
> > --www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 4/15/2010
> > KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
> a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
> one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
> white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
> micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!

To which I will add:

Go out yonder, peace in the valley
Come downtown, have to rumble in the alley
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in

Has anybody seen my lady
This living alone will drive me crazy
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in

I'm gonna go down by the wa - ter
But I ain't gonna jump in, no, no
I'll just be looking for my mak - er
And I hear that that's where she's been? Oh!

Out of nine lives, I spent seven
Now, how in the world do you get to Heaven
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in

I just spent 60 days in the jailhouse
For the crime of having no dough
Now here I am back out on the street
For the crime of having nowhere to go

Save your neck or save your brother
Looks like it's one or the other
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in

Now two young kids might start a ruckus
You know they feel you trying to shuck us
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in

On Apr 16, 8:00=A0pm, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:e0d4b1d8-bcd1-4370-a5eb-56cc8bd680a9@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> > he can still 'do it'.
> > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> > okay with that.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> Where?
> You didn't go to Interlochen did you?
>
> Max

London, ON

On Apr 17, 2:27 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

> By any other name, anyone who can sing four, five and six part harmony,
> unaccompanied, _is_ a musician. ;)

Absolutely no doubt. I wasn't speaking badly about SNC at all.

What I meant to point out that was to me, there was a wide gap in
choice of style and presentation between MT and SNC.

As I said, both have the place. SNC came here some time back, and the
reviews were stellar.

Like those female voices in MT, though....

Robert

On 4/18/2010 10:43 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

> What is getting very common is to have the road band and singers go in
> the rehearsal studio before the tour, and record the "live" performance
> to a multi-track recorder.
>
> Then, the live show sound engineers have the option of what to mix in
> the house sound, live or recorded. So, essentially, you are hearing and
> seeing what the people on stage are playing and singing.... it may have
> been performed weeks ago, but it's the people you're seeing... their
> performance. If that makes sense.
>
> You're getting a mix of live with recorded that is different every night
> depending on circumstances.

And, a treatise on why most all pop music these days basically sucks.

In a nutshell, the opportunity for an exciting _live_ performance based
on the oftentimes magical interaction between a band, the music, and the
audience is being traded for what is perhaps an adequate, but above all
safe for all concerned performance, with little or now chance for the
former.

Then throw in a gallon or so of AutoTune ... :(

<From an admittedly old fart musician> :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 17, 12:11=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/17/2010 10:36 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> >> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been aroun=
d
> >>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys =
on
> >>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, go=
od
> >>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
> >>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other wh=
o
> >>> the drummer was.
>
> >>> --www.e-woodshop.net
> >>> Last update: 4/15/2010
> >>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> >> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
> >> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
> >> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
> >> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
> >> need.
>
> > Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. :-)
>
> LOL <but preaching to the choir any way>.
>
> Hey, like I've told any number of drummer's I've worked with in the past
> (those who never grasped the concept, present company excluded because
> I've heard you play on that webcast, and when I said your snare "sounded
> great", it wasn't all bout the tone, it was a large part the "feel") ...
> _it's all in the back beat_.
>
> A well placed, in time, snare drum is one of the most uplifting things
> in music ... from a strong mandolin back beat in a grooving bluegrass
> tune, to the metronomic snare in a rock tune, to the well placed
> just-behind-the-beat feel of the snare in a blues tunes (that snare
> placement that makes the bass player's head bob), to the swing "feel"
> added by the snare in a swing tune.
>
> Some drummers are a pleasure to play with on any tune. Those who only
> know one thing, when it comes to placing that back beat in a measure,
> are a nightmare on anything that is not there particular thing.
>
> It's unfortunate how many drummers fall into that category.
>
> Ask any bass player who has spent more time standing next to a drummer
> on stage than many people have breathing. <g>
>
> It's all in the back beat ...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

It was always fun to watch Entwistle walk up to Moon and bring him
back to the what the rest of the band was doing. I have a dozen DVD's
(Bootleg and otherwise) of The Who proving that if you have a bass/
drum package. you have 7/8th of a band.

To watch Sly & Robbie is just farking amazing. Hence Sheffield Steel
is still one of my favourite Joe Cocker LP's. Cocker's version of
Dylan's Seven Days has Sly & Robbie go for a walk IN the PARK. (I have
a small reggae infliction. Picked it up on the Island, mon.)

I hate to say it...but here it comes..."They don't make music like
that anymore"...and "Get OFF my lawn!!" <G>

For those more adventurous, see if you p2p a copy of Dark Side Of The
Dub somewhere. Not for everybody, but if you like it, go buy it.

Meanwhile, enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DM9f7uhZcbfQ

On Apr 17, 11:36=A0am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
> >> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys o=
n
> >> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, goo=
d
> >> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
> >> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
> >> the drummer was.
>
> >> --www.e-woodshop.net
> >> Last update: 4/15/2010
> >> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> > Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
> > without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
> > of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
> > Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
> > need.
>
> Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. =A0 =A0:-)
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Well, there are drummers who push a band around and those who
punctuate music already in progress....<S>

On Apr 17, 10:19 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> I shall round up the troops in search of "Straight No Chaser". Your
> recommendations have done well for me in the past.

I guess it is a matter of taste. SNC is a nifty band, and they are
quite polished. They do a lot of novelty type stuff. There is plenty
of their work on the 'tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fe11OlMiz8

I don't think they compare to MT, though. JMO, but compare this
little impromtu scat they did with Ella:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNNzarG15tU&feature=related

Not to offend anyone, but to me it is the difference between
performers and musicians.

Both have a place on stage.

Feeling mellow, listening to Oscar Peterson's live solo performances
(with an occasional guest such as Ella or Nat) on a rainy day....

Robert

On Apr 16, 8:00=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> > he can still 'do it'.
> > We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> > Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> > okay with that.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> What was the problem?
>

His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
fun.
Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
that's a bit different.)
Like I said... it was awkward.

On 4/17/2010 12:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
> a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
> one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
> white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
> micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!

Yep ... was just thinking the same thing. Waiting on Dad (86) to bring
Mom (who is 87 and can't remember who anyone is, including him) down for
a visit while he gets a rare chance to get out by himself and go to an
outdoor bbq/birthday party for one of his graduate school buddies.

They babysat for us, now it's our turn ... wouldn't have it any other way.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 17, 4:16=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Robatoy" =A0wrote
>
> Nothing like blowing a couple of hours on a Saturday morning following
> a music thread on the Wreck and rearranging a whole mess of music on
> one of the iPods.... It was 86F here day before yesterday now we have
> white global warming shit falling from the skies.... welcome to the
> micro-weather systems of The Greatest Lakes Evar!
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> Just be grateful it isn't volcanic ash!!

The British and Dutch bankers to Iceland: "Send us SOMETHING!!"

Icelanders: " =D8kayy "

On Apr 17, 9:47=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
> > That would have been Red Shea. He passed away almost 2 years ago. He
>
> was a finger-picker from the Kotke way of getting things done. Even
> though he had extraordinary picking skills, he always stayed tasty.
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Some years ago, NPR brocast a night of pickin from someplace in North
> Carolina.
>
> Ricky Skaggs on mandolin, Doc Watson on guitar & Earl Scruggs on
> banjo.
>
> Quite an evening's entertainment.
>
> Lew

Skaggs is a criminal <G> So is Vince Gill... Yup, Ricky can really fly.

On 4/16/10 8:16 PM, WW wrote:
> "Robatoy"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
>> he can still 'do it'.
>> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
>> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
>> okay with that.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>
> Retire? Why? Because he was 72? At 72 I could put in a full days hard
> work. Built a deck onto the house. 13 x 42 and 12 feet high. By
> myself.
> But now 2 months away from 83 I am s l o w i n g d o w n.
> ww
>

What does that have to do with singing?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/16/10 10:33 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few
>> musicians who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it
>> is indeed awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.
> -------------------------------------------
> Even Sinarta had problems walking away on top.
>
> Lew
>

I think he was about 20 years late on that. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/17/10 12:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few musicians
>> who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it is indeed
>> awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.
>
> That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. They never sound as good
> in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
> 'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...
>

It's come full circle, Larry.
Now, many shows just play the album and pantomime to it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/17/10 10:25 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
>> the drummer was.
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
> need.
>

Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/17/10 11:03 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>> On Apr 17, 9:10 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Then there is a very successful duo, now out of AR, that's been around
>>>> for years, "Trout Fishing in America". On an album they are two guys on
>>>> bass and guitar singing and picking, with remarkable musicianship, good
>>>> songs ... on stage they morph into an orchestra of sound. I've heard
>>>> folks in the mezzanine after a show sincerely wonder to each other who
>>>> the drummer was.
>>
>>>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>>>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>>>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>>
>>> Got to love that. Dave "Daddy" Jacques and Jason Wilber get by fine
>>> without a drummer when backing up John Prine. They have been accused
>>> of hiding a drum machine or SUMPtin'.... LOL
>>> Personally, just the right amount of slap on an upright bass is all I
>>> need.
>>
>> Hmmmm... I'm not sure I like where this discussion is headed. :-)
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>
> Well, there are drummers who push a band around and those who
> punctuate music already in progress....<S>

And I guess you'll get to see Neil do both. :-)

What's the difference between a drummer and a toilet?
A toilet only has to carry one a$$hole at a time.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/17/10 11:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
> Hey, like I've told any number of drummer's I've worked with in the past
> (those who never grasped the concept, present company excluded because
> I've heard you play on that webcast, and when I said your snare "sounded
> great", it wasn't all bout the tone, it was a large part the "feel") ...
> _it's all in the back beat_.
>
> A well placed, in time, snare drum is one of the most uplifting things
> in music ... from a strong mandolin back beat in a grooving bluegrass
> tune, to the metronomic snare in a rock tune, to the well placed
> just-behind-the-beat feel of the snare in a blues tunes (that snare
> placement that makes the bass player's head bob), to the swing "feel"
> added by the snare in a swing tune.
>
> Some drummers are a pleasure to play with on any tune. Those who only
> know one thing, when it comes to placing that back beat in a measure,
> are a nightmare on anything that is not there particular thing.
>
> It's unfortunate how many drummers fall into that category.
>
> Ask any bass player who has spent more time standing next to a drummer
> on stage than many people have breathing. <g>
>
> It's all in the back beat ...
>

There have been virtual dissertations written on the placement of the
back beat.
Ahead, right on, or behind. It's a very subjective and "sensed" thing.

Personally, I've noticed that I'm usually in the back seat when it comes
to driving that bus. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/17/10 11:34 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/17/2010 11:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> There have been virtual dissertations written on the placement of the
>> back beat.
>> Ahead, right on, or behind. It's a very subjective and "sensed" thing.
>
> In the sense that you can't teach it, I agree. But boy howdy, can I feel
> it when attempting to play bass with it.
>
>> Personally, I've noticed that I'm usually in the back seat when it comes
>> to driving that bus. :-)
>
> As a bassist, I follow the drummer instinctively ... that's why I say it
> is a nightmare to play with a drummer who can't get the feel of the
> genre right.
>

I think that's the key... getting a bass player and drummer who are in
the same school.

I go to a lot of blues jams.... even though I really can't stand blues. :-)
It's sort of a requirement of the job to play at these things and you
meet a lot of great (and bad) players.

Last one I was at, the host drummer was a great player. He and the bass
player were definitly in the same school as far as back beat *and*
downbeat was concerned.

On the double-shuffle tunes (ie: Pride & Joy), their downbeats were way
in the back seat and the drummer's back beat was so in front, it
could've been a hood ornament. It was a little strange, but it fell
together and sounded great... *and*... they were obviously digging it,
together.


> We had a female drummer who sat in with us occasionally who is an
> excellent rock and country drummer and much in demand, routinely tours
> all over the country and Europe ... very solid drummer, and metromic,
> timewise ... but she absolutely ruins a swing or blues tune ... just
> can't do it.
>
> That _is_ a nightmare, in a band that plays primarily Western Swing ... :(
>

In a lot of the two-beat stuff I hear, the snare sounds pushed a little,
like it's almost rushing, but stays in time. I can't really play that
way, naturally.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/17/10 11:37 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> It was always fun to watch Entwistle walk up to Moon and bring him
> back to the what the rest of the band was doing. I have a dozen DVD's
> (Bootleg and otherwise) of The Who proving that if you have a bass/
> drum package. you have 7/8th of a band.
>

My facebook status update, yesterday, after hearing "Real Me" on the
radio....

"...thinks on The Who's "Real Me," Keith Moon and John Entwistle weren't
sure who Pete was talking to when he said, "You take lead on this one."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/18/10 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:13:48 -0500, the infamous -MIKE-
>>> That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. They never sound as good
>>> in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
>>> 'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...
>>>
>>
>> It's come full circle, Larry.
>> Now, many shows just play the album and pantomime to it.
>
> Milli Vanilli incarnate, wot? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
>
> It's DEPENDS time, folks.<thud>
>

What is getting very common is to have the road band and singers go in
the rehearsal studio before the tour, and record the "live" performance
to a multi-track recorder.

Then, the live show sound engineers have the option of what to mix in
the house sound, live or recorded. So, essentially, you are hearing and
seeing what the people on stage are playing and singing.... it may have
been performed weeks ago, but it's the people you're seeing... their
performance. If that makes sense.

You're getting a mix of live with recorded that is different every night
depending on circumstances.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/18/10 11:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/18/2010 10:43 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> What is getting very common is to have the road band and singers go in
>> the rehearsal studio before the tour, and record the "live" performance
>> to a multi-track recorder.
>>
>> Then, the live show sound engineers have the option of what to mix in
>> the house sound, live or recorded. So, essentially, you are hearing and
>> seeing what the people on stage are playing and singing.... it may have
>> been performed weeks ago, but it's the people you're seeing... their
>> performance. If that makes sense.
>>
>> You're getting a mix of live with recorded that is different every night
>> depending on circumstances.
>
> And, a treatise on why most all pop music these days basically sucks.
>
> In a nutshell, the opportunity for an exciting _live_ performance based
> on the oftentimes magical interaction between a band, the music, and the
> audience is being traded for what is perhaps an adequate, but above all
> safe for all concerned performance, with little or now chance for the
> former.
>
> Then throw in a gallon or so of AutoTune ... :(
>
> <From an admittedly old fart musician> :)
>

True dat. Pretty much, any time you see dancers and/or video
presentations along with the music, you can be certain that much of what
you are hearing is canned.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/18/10 11:44 AM, Swingman wrote:
> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>
> Record that, and you've got gold!
>
> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>

The big inside joke in the biz, is that *the* benchmark live rock album,
"Frampton Comes Alive," was about 70 percent overdubs.

Might be an urban myth, but it's still funny.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/18/10 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
> Microwave ovens?
>

I can get all the chicks I want, *real* cheap, down at Tractor Supply,
the week after Easter.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/18/10 1:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Apr 18, 1:01 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/18/2010 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>>>> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
>>>>> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
>>>>> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
>>>>> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
>>>>> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
>>>>> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
>>>>> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
>>>>> Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>>
>>>> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
>>>> convenience they are usually very valid.
>>
>>>> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them as a
>>>> musician.
>>
>>>> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
>>>> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
>>>> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
>>>> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>>
>>>> Record that, and you've got gold!
>>
>>>> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>>
>>> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
>>> Microwave ovens?
>>
>> Playing like Mark Knopfler does, it's a slam dunk that he played many a
>> gig for nothing, for the sheer joy of playing. :)
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> He's coming to Toronto...Massey Hall a nice small venue..GOT to get me
> some tickets.
> (I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before:) The Concert For
> Montserrat at Royal Albert Hall had Knopfler do his Brothers In Arms.
> No
> tape-dubbin' there. Just a great big dose of awesomeness.
> Paul McCartney does a great version of Golden Slumbers on the same
> DVD. A must have.
Massey Hall is great, if you are short.
I'm 6'5" tall, always come out with cramps in my legs.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 4/18/10 5:08 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Apr 18, 3:04 pm, FrozenNorth<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On 4/18/10 1:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 18, 1:01 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 4/18/2010 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/18/2010 11:33 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Stevie Wonder did that 30 years ago during his Circle In The Square
>>>>>>> tour. I discussed this with Mark Smith, his engineer, and the reasons
>>>>>>> were, I thought, quite valid. First of all, they only did a few songs
>>>>>>> with only Stevie's voice, the band was live, and the big reason was
>>>>>>> that Stevie's voice had to be conserved for the last part of the
>>>>>>> concert. That particular night at The Memorial in Rochester NY, they
>>>>>>> only did two songs that way. Sometimes 3 or 4, sometimes none.
>>>>>>> Certainly never because they 'had' to.
>>
>>>>>> There's always a rationale, and when it comes to time, money and
>>>>>> convenience they are usually very valid.
>>
>>>>>> Being a realist, I concur with the methods, although I regret them as a
>>>>>> musician.
>>
>>>>>> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
>>>>>> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
>>>>>> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
>>>>>> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>>
>>>>>> Record that, and you've got gold!
>>
>>>>>> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>>
>>>>> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
>>>>> Microwave ovens?
>>
>>>> Playing like Mark Knopfler does, it's a slam dunk that he played many a
>>>> gig for nothing, for the sheer joy of playing. :)
>>
>>>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>>>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>>>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>>
>>> He's coming to Toronto...Massey Hall a nice small venue..GOT to get me
>>> some tickets.
>>> (I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before:) The Concert For
>>> Montserrat at Royal Albert Hall had Knopfler do his Brothers In Arms.
>>> No
>>> tape-dubbin' there. Just a great big dose of awesomeness.
>>> Paul McCartney does a great version of Golden Slumbers on the same
>>> DVD. A must have.
>>
>> Massey Hall is great, if you are short.
>> I'm 6'5" tall, always come out with cramps in my legs.
>>
>> --
>> Froz...
>>
>> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
>
> I am 5'10 63/64" and the main floor is cramped for me. The side
> balconies? Forget it.
> The sound is pretty good though. Way better than anything else in TO.

Absolutely, the best sounding hall in town.
Last show I saw was Squires, White and Howe from YES there, absolutely
amazing, but ouch.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:02:42 -0500, the infamous Swingman
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 4/16/2010 9:05 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 8:00 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 4/16/2010 6:25 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>>> I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
>>>> he can still 'do it'.
>>>> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
>>>> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
>>>> okay with that.
>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg
>>>
>>> What was the problem?
>>>
>>
>> His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
>> through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
>> few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
>> younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
>> fun.
>> Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
>> that's a bit different.)
>> Like I said... it was awkward.
>
>Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few musicians
>who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it is indeed
>awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.

That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. They never sound as good
in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...

---
A book burrows into your life in a very profound way
because the experience of reading is not passive.
--Erica Jong

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e0d4b1d8-bcd1-4370-a5eb-56cc8bd680a9@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
> he can still 'do it'.
> We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
> Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
> okay with that.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GordonLightfoot_Interlochen.jpg

That takes me back. I remember one quiet mid-week night at the Ash Grove or
the Troubador when he and I were both young, with Gordon doing a solo set to
a room of no more than a dozen, just him and his six-string and another guy
called "Red" backing him on 12-string. He was probably about 30 or a little
more, I was an aspiring but not very good folksinger in my middle 20's. Some
people say he had the best voice in folk, in those days.

Tom

>I liked the ballads, but at age 72, he really shouldn't try to pretend
>he can still 'do it'.
>We came away pleased but feeling a bit awkward.
>Glad to have seen him again, and if he decided to retire, I would be
>okay with that.

Here in my town, Dixon, CA ("Gateway to Davis") we have the Dixon May
Fair, the oldest Fair in America that's still in it's original
location.

We get a LOT of aged and past-their-prime bands, in the last few years
(some still VERY good). But then, we also have the Demolition Derby,
sheep dog trials, the FFA animal competitions, funnel cakes and greasy
Carni food, and the carnival rides.

This May:
Foreigner, Pat Benatar, Creedence Clearwater Revisted

Former years:
REO Speedwagon
ZZTop
Doobie Brothers
"Lynard Skynard" (well, kinda')
many others

"We all get old".
-Ronnie Wood

On 4/17/2010 5:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 17, 2:27 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> By any other name, anyone who can sing four, five and six part harmony,
>> unaccompanied, _is_ a musician. ;)
>
> Absolutely no doubt. I wasn't speaking badly about SNC at all.
>
> What I meant to point out that was to me, there was a wide gap in
> choice of style and presentation between MT and SNC.
>
> As I said, both have the place. SNC came here some time back, and the
> reviews were stellar.
>
> Like those female voices in MT, though....

Manhattan Transfer is tops in my book also ... probably one of the best
blends of "jazz" and "swing" ever, vocal and instrumental alike.

Like I said, their "Swing" album is one of the absolutest hardest
_swinging_ albums of all time. Anyone wanna know what "swing" is ...
introduce them to that album, it is the veritable definition of the
genre. That particular album is also some of the most stellar
musicianship you will ever hear, with virtuoso performances on every
single instrument, on every single track.

Dayum, I wish I had had that recording budget a couple of times ... :)

You're right, SNC is not in the same genre, but damn those multi-part a
capella harmonies. If you've ever been in a room and feel how they can
acoustically make the air resonate without mics ... like Rob said, it'll
make the hair on your arms stand up.

Then again, something like that is almost impossible to capture on a
recording, it has to be physically experienced, whereas MT lends itself
well, and can be enjoyed and appreciated, in all mediums.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

That would have been Red Shea. He passed away almost 2 years ago. He
was a finger-picker from the Kotke way of getting things done. Even
though he had extraordinary picking skills, he always stayed tasty.

Thanks for filling in that missing piece for me, RT. I'll say that guy could
pick a 12-string.

Tom

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:13:48 -0500, the infamous -MIKE-
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 4/17/10 12:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> Knowing when to quit is tough on a talent. I know quite a few musicians
>>> who've play a bit too far past their prime. To witness it is indeed
>>> awkward, for all concerned ... a good description.
>>
>> That's why I gave up concerts 25+ years ago. They never sound as good
>> in concert as they did on studio albums, so why waste your time?
>> 'Course, I gave up partying hearty about that time, too, so...
>>
>
>It's come full circle, Larry.
>Now, many shows just play the album and pantomime to it.

Milli Vanilli incarnate, wot? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

It's DEPENDS time, folks. <thud>

---
A book burrows into your life in a very profound way
because the experience of reading is not passive.
--Erica Jong

On 4/17/2010 3:31 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:

> Be warned, if you want to mako something of it -- I've got _lots_ more of
> them I could trout out. Including some that are really crappie, others
> that are merely tilipiadated, and a few that just smelt. That said, _anybody_
> engaging in fish puns is likely to get scrod. Shad, but true. And, yes, I
> not only *did* do it all on porpoise, I manta every word.
>
> <*BIG* grin>

And now you got muffin left to say ... ;)


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/18/2010 12:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/18/10 11:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>> Not money for nothing and the chicks for free?
>> Microwave ovens?
>>
>
> I can get all the chicks I want, *real* cheap, down at Tractor Supply,
> the week after Easter.

Correction ... real cheep! ;)


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/18/2010 12:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/18/10 11:44 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> There is absolutely nothing on this earth like the HIGH of a live,
>> spontaneous, musical interaction with other musicians when your hearts
>> are beating as one and you're meeting on top of the beat and shaking
>> hands ... and that goes doubly for the witnessing audience as well!
>>
>> Record that, and you've got gold!
>>
>> Besides, it's why most musicians play in the first place ...
>>
>
> The big inside joke in the biz, is that *the* benchmark live rock album,
> "Frampton Comes Alive," was about 70 percent overdubs.
>
> Might be an urban myth, but it's still funny.

It is funny ... equally funny/appropriate is the quote attributed to
Hunter S. Thompson on the music biz. :)

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cde4890b-f97b-4d6c-b125-3db796d10188@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> What was the problem?
>

His upper register is shot and he tried to power his way up and
through, but it sounded like air escaping, no tone. That happened on a
few occasions. I do know he is 72 and he no longer has the voice of a
younger man. I know this. But to see him struggle like that wasn't
fun.
Imagine Ali going in for 15 rounds the shape he is in.....(I know
that's a bit different.)
Like I said... it was awkward.


Have you seen Rod Stewart perform lately? I swear he leaves his walker off
stage. He gets to jerking around so much trying to dance that I think he is
going to fall and break a hip. ;~)