Uneven surface after edge glueing

1. When cutting the biscuit slots
- Clamp the boards down to the table before cutting slots
- Be very careful with technique to apply down pressure on tool
when cutting slot
- Be sure you mark the "up" side of the board so you use the
same alignment when you put then together later

2. Utilize "flattening" techniques when clamping up the panel
- You can use "hand screw" clamps across the ends of the panel
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=3D5335
- And\or you can use clamping cauls across the panel, lots of
methods for this but here is a good description
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pdf/FWW141-044.pdf

3. You could buy a hand plane and start learning the old school method
of flattening the panel after it's glued. Confession: I consider
myself an accomplished woodworker and I really don't know the proper
techniques of using hand planes. I'm signing up for my first class
next month.



On Mar 15, 6:45=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, you will find that you don't actually need biscuits for edge
> gluing for strength but for alignment they are very helpful. That
> being said here are a few pointers.
>
> 1. When cutting the biscuit slots
>
> On Mar 15, 6:40=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
> > I glued up four 3/4" thick, 2" wide, 3' long birch boards. I used a
> > biscuit joiner with #10 biscuits. I think I got a pretty good hang of
> > ensuring the slots were cut evenly.
>
> > After I finished glueing, I noticed that the resulting 8" wide board
> > had uneven surface due to slight misalignment of the 2" boards from
> > which it was made, maybe not more than 1/16" of an inch, but it was
> > obvious that it wasn't due to the different thicknesses of the boards,
> > since in that case one side would be perfectly flat and the other
> > not.
>
> > Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
> > experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
> > doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
> > am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.- Hide quoted te=
xt -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Mar 15, 9:56=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1. When cutting the biscuit slots
> =A0 =A0 =A0 - Clamp the boards down to the table before cutting slots

I did.

> =A0 =A0 =A0 - Be very careful with technique to apply down pressure on too=
l
> when cutting slot

I think I mastered it pretty well. I have Ryobi JM82, well yeah, not
deWalt or Porter Cable, but I still think it can cut good slots. I
developed a technique to ensure that the fence is resting square on
the workpiece, and if it is flat then the slot should be parallel.

> =A0 =A0 =A0 - Be sure you mark the "up" side of the board so you use the
> same alignment when you put then together later

All done.

>
> 2. Utilize "flattening" techniques when clamping up the panel
> =A0 =A0 =A0 - You can use "hand screw" clamps across the ends of the panel=
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=3D5335
> =A0 =A0 =A0 - And\or you can use clamping cauls across the panel, lots of
> methods for this but here is a good descriptionhttp://www.taunton.com/fine=
woodworking/pdf/FWW141-044.pdf

Yep, I'll try that. Thanks.

>
> 3. You could buy a hand plane and start learning the old school method
> of flattening the panel after it's glued. Confession: I consider
> myself an accomplished woodworker and I really don't know the proper
> techniques of using hand planes. I'm signing up for my first class
> next month.
>

There must be something about them since people pay so much money for
them despite all the other more modern tools.

If you set the biscuit in the centers the boards could be different
thicknesses and both side wouldn't be flat. Make sure you're setting the
biscuit offset from one side and keep this side down when gluing up.
Maybe then you can get one good side.

> Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
> experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
> doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
> am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.

I'm not that experienced, but I do glue-ups often.
Yes, it's normal to not execute a new procedure perfectly the first time,
at least for me.

Start with correct components. Tune your table saw. It sounds like it may
not be cutting perfect 90deg. The problem could also be different
thicknesses. Get a micrometer and angle, ensure parallel - consistent
thickness and right angles on all edges.

Perhaps a jig with a hand plane for 90's, easier done on a well tuned
tablesaw or chopsaw.

A jig with a router for a thickness planer. Like this. Plans and usage
instructions available in many routing books.
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/6227-router-planer-sled-
thinnest-you-ve-cut-wood.html

Whenever this happens to me it's because I rushed, didn't measure and
check angles and started with material of different dimensions or angles.
I do marquetry and the condition of the starting components, their
dimensions, angles and moisture content, determine the success of the
project.

Use a micrometer and hand pick your stock for critical sections of the
project. You may find variances within your stock.

In the end some tasks are more difficult without tools available for that
task. A jointer and a thickness planer would probably fix everything.
Have someone else with the tools prepare this stock for you.

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 18:40:30 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>I glued up four 3/4" thick, 2" wide, 3' long birch boards. I used a
>biscuit joiner with #10 biscuits. I think I got a pretty good hang of
>ensuring the slots were cut evenly.
>
>After I finished glueing, I noticed that the resulting 8" wide board
>had uneven surface due to slight misalignment of the 2" boards from
>which it was made, maybe not more than 1/16" of an inch, but it was
>obvious that it wasn't due to the different thicknesses of the boards,
>since in that case one side would be perfectly flat and the other
>not.
>
>Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
>experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
>doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
>am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.

No, this is not the usual in gluing up panels. It is very important
to make certain all the boards are flat, square, 90-degree edges, and
the same thickness. Work on a well-lit flat surface to check the fit
for any gaps. K-Body clamps work best for panel glue-ups. Over
tightening clamps may cause misalignment. After the boards are in the
clamps, check again for flatness with a long straightedge or winding
sticks. Biscuits are optional.

For what it's worth, I don't use biscuits or dowels for edge
joining, as the glue provides more strength than the wood. Biscuits
or dowells are there solely for allignment. And with 2-4 inch boards,
I don't use anything but glue. That said, the above comments are very
useful if you do use a biscuit cutter.

I have a 13" planer, and when I have a 16 inch board to make, I use
glue, and a load of clamps. Some to squeeze the joint, smaller ones
on the ends to keep the edges flush ( one per joint, each side ), and
cauls if needed for the middle. After drying overnight, I use a plane
to get the big chunks down, a belt sander if I get lazy, and then a
ROS and finally hand sand paper to finish. I keep forgetting to use
my scraper, but am usually impressed when I do use it.

I do use dowels when joining longer boards, just to make the
assembly easier to handle. It's a race to get the joint glued,
alligned and clamped within the open time of the glue, and the dowels
seem to help there.

Hope this helps.

Rich.....

<snip>
> Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
> experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
> doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
> am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.

I don't use biscuits or dowels. Clamps and cauls work for me.
I recently learned to plane both edges with a hand plane (#6 or #7), and it
works great.
My cs will make a glue line cut with a Forrest blade.
Another tip I've used is that a few grains of sand in the glue line (4-5
grains, not much) will lock the edges up when applying clamp pressure.

Lowell Holmes wrote:
> <snip>
> Another tip I've used is that a few grains of sand in the glue line (4-5
> grains, not much) will lock the edges up when applying clamp pressure.
>
>
What a neat concept! I've never glued up a panel and had never heard
of this tip, but it sounds like a touch of genius.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

I'm not broke, I'm just badly bent.

Yes, I was wondering how good the instructor will be. I'll let ya
know.

Having taught various subjects myself over the years, I realize it is
as much the student as the teacher. I taught a one day technical class
to several hundred folks at the same time and got reviews from "You
are a god" to "You are worse than a high school science teacher."

On Mar 17, 6:15=A0pm, Tanus <[email protected]> wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> > Yes, I am really looking forward to learning how to sharpen, setup and
> > use the various planes. I've seen the old guys (I'm 50 so I guess they
> > are really old) do magic with a sharp well handled plane and I really
> > need the skils.
>
> I'd be really interested to hear how
> those classes work out for you. If you
> get a half-decent instructor, I think
> you'll find that it's not only time
> nicely invested in skill acquiring, but
> it's a really enjoyable gabfest on top
> of it.
>
> Let us know how it goes.
>
> Tanus
>
> --

Yes, I am really looking forward to learning how to sharpen, setup and
use the various planes. I've seen the old guys (I'm 50 so I guess they
are really old) do magic with a sharp well handled plane and I really
need the skils.

On Mar 16, 10:01=A0am, Tanus <[email protected]> wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> > 1. When cutting the biscuit slots
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 - Clamp the boards down to the table before cutting slots
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 - Be very careful with technique to apply down pressure on t=
ool
> > when cutting slot
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 - Be sure you mark the "up" side of the board so you use the=

> > same alignment when you put then together later
>
> > 2. Utilize "flattening" techniques when clamping up the panel
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 - You can use "hand screw" clamps across the ends of the pan=
el
> >http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=3D5335
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 - And\or you can use clamping cauls across the panel, lots o=
f
> > methods for this but here is a good description
> >http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pdf/FWW141-044.pdf
>
> > 3. You could buy a hand plane and start learning the old school method
> > of flattening the panel after it's glued. Confession: I consider
> > myself an accomplished woodworker and I really don't know the proper
> > techniques of using hand planes. I'm signing up for my first class
> > next month.
>
> I'm at the other end of that spectrum.
> I'm not sure that I"m an accomplished
> woodworker, but when I started ruining
> wood, I did the very thing that you
> mention in #3 above. I took a course at
> a local college and all they taught us
> was hand plane techniques. At the time,
> I felt we weren't getting anywhere
> because we weren't "making anything".
>
> In the end, we never did. Ostensibly, we
> were supposed to make a small bookshelf
> out of pine, but in the end, that was
> secondary. As I recall, it never got
> completed.
>
> But I could sharpen. I understood how a
> plane worked, and some of the reasons it
> wouldn't do as I wished. It started a
> love of planing that continues to this
> day. Once the technique is acquired, it
> stays with you, and classes like that
> are invaluable.
>
> To the OP: What was mentioned above
> about planing is very good advice.
> Planing that 1/16" would take very
> little time and you'd end up with a nice
> flat smooth surface. However, as
> mentioned there is a learning curve
> associated with planing, and having a
> dull plane iron is worse than not having
> a plane at all. Inasmuch as I'd
> encourage anyone in the hobby to learn
> these skills, you probably don't want to
> take the time at this point in your
> project to buy the necessary tools. (The
> plane is only the start. Sharpening is
> key to the whole thing working.)
>
> Maybe it's just as easy to take it into
> someone and have them belt sand it for
> you for this go-round. But keep in mind
> hand planing for the next one...
>
> YMMV
>
> Tanus- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"Nova" wrote

[email protected] wrote:
>
> > I think I mastered it pretty well. I have Ryobi JM82, well yeah, not
> > deWalt or Porter Cable, but I still think it can cut good slots. I
> > developed a technique to ensure that the fence is resting square on
> > the workpiece, and if it is flat then the slot should be parallel.
> >
> >
>
> I had the same problem with the Ryobi JM80 biscuit joiner. The blade
> cuts a thicker slot than most other joiners. I contacted Ryobi to see if
> I had a defective blade. Their tech support told me they intentionally
> made the blade thicker to prevent the biscuit from telegraphing through
> to the surface.
>
> I dumped the joiner.

There you have it!

Anything to do with "alignment" is only as accurate as each of the
tools/techniques with which you do it.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article <[email protected]=
m>,=20
[email protected] says...
> On Mar 15, 9:49=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > 1/16" seems like a lot of slop for a tight-fitting, aligned biscuit.
> > Half that or even less would be more what I'd expect if the stock was
> > finished to the same thickness.
>=20
> That is one of my concerns. The biscuit seems to be loose in the slot.
> I bought another bag of #10 (Freud) - same thing. My technique? I
> don't wobble around with the joiner, I use one quick move to cut the
> slot and retract it, that's it. I don't think this is causing the slot
> to be wider than it should be. Change the cutter? I don't know. When
> you say tight-fitting, you mean, there should be slight resistance
> when inserting the biscuit, and it should not be easy to take it out?
>=20
> >
> > One trick to help is to use a batten across the boards (place a piece o=
f
> > wax paper between it and the surface to avoid gluing it to the finished
> > piece) and clamp it to hold the alignment (this also aids in maintainin=
g
> > /establishing a flat piece by counteracting the tendency of the clampin=
g
> > pressure to cause bowing).
>=20
> Thanks, I'll try that.

I suspect the Ryoby, sorry. I just did a real slap-dash job making a pine w=
ork-
bench top - put bisquits in every 8" to help with alignment. I have a Makit=
a=20
bisquit joiner, and I use Lamello bisquits. I didn't glue the bisquits this=
=20
time, but I have to lightly tap them into place with a wooden hammer, or pr=
ess=20
them in with my thumb - they don't fall into the slot even when dry. I glue=
d up=20
without any further alignment procedures described by other posters and the=
=20
biggest step on the surface would be around 1/5 of a mm -- um, not sure wha=
t=20
that's in inch but I guess well below 1/32 in any event; mostly I can't see=
any=20
stepping at all.=20

I made all the cuts with the 'native' setting of the joiner, in other words=
I=20
lightly press the board to be joined face down on to one of my worktables a=
nd=20
slide the joiner across the table top to make the cuts, not using any fence=
for=20
height setting, which works well for 3/4" boards. Because it eliminates any=
=20
accidental angling of the cuts, this makes it somewhat more accurate, in my=
=20
experience, than using a fence for height adjustment, but not THAT much of =
a=20
difference if one works carefully with a fence.

-Peter

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

In article <07baffd9-f34c-4850-95a3-18fb7b3a469b@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
[email protected] says...
>
> 3. You could buy a hand plane and start learning the old school method
> of flattening the panel after it's glued. Confession: I consider
> myself an accomplished woodworker and I really don't know the proper
> techniques of using hand planes. I'm signing up for my first class
> next month.
>

An Ulmia finishing plane with a lignum vitae sole is a beautiful tool to use.
Really really sharp, really really fine setting, I usually flatten my panels
first with a homebrew jack plane and then with the Ulmia with cuts angled at
around 30-45 degree to the joins, in a diamond pattern; mostly because I seem
to work with stubborn timbers that are prone to tear-out, even with this tool.
The more stubborn the timber, the more I go cross-grain. Once the plane finds
nothing more to flatten I switch to the cabinet scraper.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lowell Holmes wrote:
>> <snip>
>> Another tip I've used is that a few grains of sand in the glue line (4-5
>> grains, not much) will lock the edges up when applying clamp pressure.
> What a neat concept! I've never glued up a panel and had never heard of
> this tip, but it sounds like a touch of genius.
>
> --
> Gerald Ross
> Cochran, GA
>
> I'm not broke, I'm just badly bent.
>
I can't take credit for it. I don't remember where I ran across it. I kinda
think that box maker from Arkansas might have put it in an article. :-)

[email protected] wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rich" <[email protected]>
> Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Uneven surface after edge glueing
>
>
>
>> I have a 13" planer, and when I have a 16 inch board to make, I
>> use glue, and a load of clamps. Some to squeeze the joint,
>> smaller ones on the ends to keep the edges flush ( one per joint,
>> each side ), and cauls if needed for the middle. After drying
>> overnight, I use a plane to get the big chunks down, a belt sander
>> if I get lazy, and then a ROS and finally hand sand paper to
>> finish.
>
> So then, you do find it normal to have an uneven board after the
> glue has
> dried? Even after clamping everything you can? More to my previous
> point: If
> all my slots are done right, and I clamp it the way you do, should I
> still
> expect an uneven board?

I don't use biscuits but I would suspect unevenness to be a function
of their spacing. Even using a spline I would suspect some.

One thing not mentioned is that you shouldn't be too quick to cut down
the uneveneness on your glue up. A lot of moisture was added to the
wood by the glue so let it dry thoroughly before you sand/plane it
down else you'll be sanding/planing a second time.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[email protected] wrote:

> I think I mastered it pretty well. I have Ryobi JM82, well yeah, not
> deWalt or Porter Cable, but I still think it can cut good slots. I
> developed a technique to ensure that the fence is resting square on
> the workpiece, and if it is flat then the slot should be parallel.
>
>

I had the same problem with the Ryobi JM80 biscuit joiner. The blade
cuts a thicker slot than most other joiners. I contacted Ryobi to see if
I had a defective blade. Their tech support told me they intentionally
made the blade thicker to prevent the biscuit from telegraphing through
to the surface.

I dumped the joiner.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Well, you will find that you don't actually need biscuits for edge
gluing for strength but for alignment they are very helpful. That
being said here are a few pointers.

1. When cutting the biscuit slots



On Mar 15, 6:40=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I glued up four 3/4" thick, 2" wide, 3' long birch boards. I used a
> biscuit joiner with #10 biscuits. I think I got a pretty good hang of
> ensuring the slots were cut evenly.
>
> After I finished glueing, I noticed that the resulting 8" wide board
> had uneven surface due to slight misalignment of the 2" boards from
> which it was made, maybe not more than 1/16" of an inch, but it was
> obvious that it wasn't due to the different thicknesses of the boards,
> since in that case one side would be perfectly flat and the other
> not.
>
> Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
> experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
> doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
> am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.

<[email protected]> wrote

> Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
> experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
> doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
> am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.

There are many ways, like cauls and good clamps, that will help with panel
glue-up alignment. Most importantly, particularly when you're working with
expensive wood, is a practice glue-up during which you take care to study
and implement anything that will get the job done.

One of my methods to assist in alignment, along with a careful and practiced
tecnique with a _quality_ biscuit jointer, is use of these little clamping
assists across the glue joints as seen in the link below:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Jigs.htm (scroll down to "I-Beam Supports/Clamp
Assists", second picture with description)

Another way is break the task into smaller and more managable sections, do
those perfectly, then glue these already leveled sections together.

In the "Trestle Table" section of the below page is a description of what it
took to get this 100 pound plus glue-up perfectly flat.

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm (scroll to "3/20/04" section, where
the table top is being glued up)

Look carefully and you can see the use of the clamp assists mentioned above,
along with 'whatever it takes to get the job done' techniques that were
worked out beforehand, like jointed flat "cauls" beneath the top, and use
of a handy "paperweight".

IOW, the more practice, planning and thought you put behind it, the more
sucessful the endeavor.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I've used a biscuit jointer for edging several times, and I find that
the slightest slip or shake of the hand translates into the
workpiece. As a result, I would say I get a perfectly aligned edge
only about 60% of the time, and the other times I have to compensate
somehow (either by sanding the edge flat, or removing an offending
buscuit and using clamps to align).

I have never once had a problem with splining though. From my very
first attempt, I have gotten perfect results every time. I use an
interchangable arbor with a 1/4" cutter, so my piece slides flat on
the router table (or I slide my router on the surface for really big
pieces). The router always slides on the 'good' surface, which means
the grove is the exact same distance from the good surface on both
pieces, and as long as you use tight splines, the two pieces will
allign perfectly with 0 error. The only way you would get missaligned
pieces using this method is if the router leaves the surface of your
piece, your piece leaves the surface of the router table, or the depth
of the bit changes -- none of which are likely to happen.

On Mar 15, 9:49=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

> 1/16" seems like a lot of slop for a tight-fitting, aligned biscuit.
> Half that or even less would be more what I'd expect if the stock was
> finished to the same thickness.

That is one of my concerns. The biscuit seems to be loose in the slot.
I bought another bag of #10 (Freud) - same thing. My technique? I
don't wobble around with the joiner, I use one quick move to cut the
slot and retract it, that's it. I don't think this is causing the slot
to be wider than it should be. Change the cutter? I don't know. When
you say tight-fitting, you mean, there should be slight resistance
when inserting the biscuit, and it should not be easy to take it out?

>
> One trick to help is to use a batten across the boards (place a piece of
> wax paper between it and the surface to avoid gluing it to the finished
> piece) and clamp it to hold the alignment (this also aids in maintaining
> /establishing a flat piece by counteracting the tendency of the clamping
> pressure to cause bowing).

Thanks, I'll try that.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rich" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Uneven surface after edge glueing



> I have a 13" planer, and when I have a 16 inch board to make, I use
> glue, and a load of clamps. Some to squeeze the joint, smaller ones
> on the ends to keep the edges flush ( one per joint, each side ), and
> cauls if needed for the middle. After drying overnight, I use a plane
> to get the big chunks down, a belt sander if I get lazy, and then a
> ROS and finally hand sand paper to finish.

So then, you do find it normal to have an uneven board after the glue
has
dried? Even after clamping everything you can? More to my previous
point: If
all my slots are done right, and I clamp it the way you do, should I
still
expect an uneven board?

> I keep forgetting to use
> my scraper, but am usually impressed when I do use it.
>
> I do use dowels when joining longer boards, just to make the
> assembly easier to handle. It's a race to get the joint glued,
> alligned and clamped within the open time of the glue, and the dowels
> seem to help there.
>
> Hope this helps.

Sure...thanks.

[email protected] wrote:
> I glued up four 3/4" thick, 2" wide, 3' long birch boards. I used a
> biscuit joiner with #10 biscuits. I think I got a pretty good hang of
> ensuring the slots were cut evenly.
>
> After I finished glueing, I noticed that the resulting 8" wide board
> had uneven surface due to slight misalignment of the 2" boards from
> which it was made, maybe not more than 1/16" of an inch, but it was
> obvious that it wasn't due to the different thicknesses of the boards,
> since in that case one side would be perfectly flat and the other
> not.
>
> Anyway, since this is my first edge joining, I would like to ask the
> experienced guys, do you find this normal? If not, how do I ensure it
> doesn't happen? I neither have a jointer, nor a thickness planer, so I
> am limited to an old orbital sander to fix this problem.

1/16" seems like a lot of slop for a tight-fitting, aligned biscuit.
Half that or even less would be more what I'd expect if the stock was
finished to the same thickness.

One trick to help is to use a batten across the boards (place a piece of
wax paper between it and the surface to avoid gluing it to the finished
piece) and clamp it to hold the alignment (this also aids in maintaining
/establishing a flat piece by counteracting the tendency of the clamping
pressure to cause bowing).

Here's where a scrub plane, sharp scraper, belt sander or similar will
come in handy lacking the surface plane. It's a ready-made excuse,
right? :)

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[email protected] wrote:
> On Mar 15, 9:49 pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> 1/16" seems like a lot of slop for a tight-fitting, aligned biscuit.
>> Half that or even less would be more what I'd expect if the stock was
>> finished to the same thickness.
>
> That is one of my concerns. The biscuit seems to be loose in the slot.
> I bought another bag of #10 (Freud) - same thing. My technique? I
> don't wobble around with the joiner, I use one quick move to cut the
> slot and retract it, that's it. I don't think this is causing the slot
> to be wider than it should be. Change the cutter? I don't know. When
> you say tight-fitting, you mean, there should be slight resistance
> when inserting the biscuit, and it should not be easy to take it out?

No, it should be snug, not loose in the slot.

Some less expensive biscuit cutters I've seen reviewed have problems w/
runout/wobble in spindles. Also possible the cutter isn't mounted
perfectly flat against the spindle or there's a manufacturing defect
there. Also the cutter itself could either not be quite flat/in line or
just slightly oversized...

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SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> 1. When cutting the biscuit slots
> - Clamp the boards down to the table before cutting slots
> - Be very careful with technique to apply down pressure on tool
> when cutting slot
> - Be sure you mark the "up" side of the board so you use the
> same alignment when you put then together later
>
> 2. Utilize "flattening" techniques when clamping up the panel
> - You can use "hand screw" clamps across the ends of the panel
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5335
> - And\or you can use clamping cauls across the panel, lots of
> methods for this but here is a good description
> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pdf/FWW141-044.pdf
>
> 3. You could buy a hand plane and start learning the old school method
> of flattening the panel after it's glued. Confession: I consider
> myself an accomplished woodworker and I really don't know the proper
> techniques of using hand planes. I'm signing up for my first class
> next month.
>

I'm at the other end of that spectrum.
I'm not sure that I"m an accomplished
woodworker, but when I started ruining
wood, I did the very thing that you
mention in #3 above. I took a course at
a local college and all they taught us
was hand plane techniques. At the time,
I felt we weren't getting anywhere
because we weren't "making anything".

In the end, we never did. Ostensibly, we
were supposed to make a small bookshelf
out of pine, but in the end, that was
secondary. As I recall, it never got
completed.

But I could sharpen. I understood how a
plane worked, and some of the reasons it
wouldn't do as I wished. It started a
love of planing that continues to this
day. Once the technique is acquired, it
stays with you, and classes like that
are invaluable.

To the OP: What was mentioned above
about planing is very good advice.
Planing that 1/16" would take very
little time and you'd end up with a nice
flat smooth surface. However, as
mentioned there is a learning curve
associated with planing, and having a
dull plane iron is worse than not having
a plane at all. Inasmuch as I'd
encourage anyone in the hobby to learn
these skills, you probably don't want to
take the time at this point in your
project to buy the necessary tools. (The
plane is only the start. Sharpening is
key to the whole thing working.)

Maybe it's just as easy to take it into
someone and have them belt sand it for
you for this go-round. But keep in mind
hand planing for the next one...

YMMV

Tanus

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> Yes, I am really looking forward to learning how to sharpen, setup and
> use the various planes. I've seen the old guys (I'm 50 so I guess they
> are really old) do magic with a sharp well handled plane and I really
> need the skils.
>

I'd be really interested to hear how
those classes work out for you. If you
get a half-decent instructor, I think
you'll find that it's not only time
nicely invested in skill acquiring, but
it's a really enjoyable gabfest on top
of it.

Let us know how it goes.

Tanus

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