There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
that defines the term. Maybe a discussion of design should
start with a definition of the term. I found this one while
going through book reviews on WoodCentral
Steven Aimon, in his book "Design!" provides a useful definition
"Simply put, design is the arrangement of visual elements in space"
Visual elements
arrangement
in space
We know what a desk, table, chest of drawers or a chair
generally looks like and what each is supposed to do. We have
a general idea of basic shapes, sizes and components dictated
by the piece's function - function being important if we're
talking about furniture that can actually be used - and lived
with (as opposed to some "studio furniture makers'"
"inrerpretation" of a table, chair etc.).
But, given each is about the same size and with the same number
of drawers, it's the things that make one chest of drawers more
attractive than another that we search for.
Let's start with the "visual elements"
There's a big box with a top, bottom, two sides - and a back
you'll seldom see (unless your spouse is one who likes to
re-arrange the furniture on a bi-annual or annual basis).
From the front we see only the front outline of the box, the
edges of the top, bottom and sides. Inside the big box are a
series of smaller boxes typically arranged in horizontal
layers stacked on top of each other. There may or may not
be visual elements separating the drawer boxes. There's
likely drawer pulls and something to hold the big outside
box off the floor.
Aside from the wood, a big "aside" I'll admit, all we have
to work with are a bunch of boxes, with actual thicknesses
in the 1/2" to 3/4" thickness range, maybe even 1" thick.
Going with a "face frame" the big box visual element can be
added to in order to increase the apparentt thickness, and the
mass it implies. If that doesn't do it there's always molding
and trim. If you want to lighten up the look of the big box
then you can chamfer some edges or round them over to
make them look thinner/lighter or to make the outline of the
big box a bit ambiguous - maybe to make one or more of the
smaller boxes more noticable.
Now we've got the little boxes to work with. They can be
emphasized or blended together. Drawer dividers can
act as visual frames for the drawers. Or, you can go with
overlay drawers and chamfer or shape their edges or even
add cock beading to make each a visual element. To further
distinguish each drawer, you can vary their size or better
yet, graduate them, shortest on top and widest on the bottom,
or visa versa - but that falls under "arrangement" so
let's skip that for now.
Drawer pulls can also be used to either draw attention to
the drawers or act as another visual element. Where
on each drawer you put them falls under "arrangement".
Edge treatment was touched on earlier, but how they
work to change the look of the piece wasn't. Edge treat-
ments add new surfaces for light to play with - either
to create another plane or two OR to cast a shadow.
Shadows can also be visual elements. A plane inset
drawer doesn't cast a shadow. An overlay drawer does.
But a flush drawer with chamfered edges will have
shadows.
One more thing to keep in mind when you're thinking
about visual elements - shadows. You don't normally
think about shadows - but they can be an important
visual element - defining edges and outlines - or not.
Got you thinking yet?
On to "arrangement".
Assuming that there needs to be smaller boxes inside
the bigger box, their arrangement is important.
For the chest of drawers "box", lets assume you
need six drawers, or better yet five. You could
stack them on top of each other, and maybe graduate
them. Or you could put two side by side - twice
and a long one on the bottom. If you go with the
side by side thing, what about the left one narrower
than the other on the top row, reverse that for the
second row and the one long one on the bottom.
OR - two narrow ones flanking a wider one
on the top and two the same width below. Or ...
You can also use an arrangement that surprises.
Sam Maloof does a chair with arms, but the arms
are too low to actually rest your arms on when
seated. He used the "arms" as structural elements
of his chair. The chair seat acts as one leg stretcher
- and the "arms" as another. That re-arrangement
of parts makes his chair interesting, even if you
don't know why. Structurally it's just as strong
as the traditional stretcher arrangement.
This can go on and on. Hell, there are four
or five types of graduated drawers.
So on to "in space"
The one most often overlooked part of "design"
is the "in space" part of design. When "space"
IS considered it's usually because the "space"
is limited. "Can't be any wider than ... in order
to fit in that space."
But "in space" should also be thought of in
terms of the context of the space the piece
will occupy. A big, overpowering piece
in a small room can be a disaster, no matter
how good the woodworking, the proportions,
and even the wood. By the same token, a small
delicate piece in a room full of Greene & Greene
pieces just won'tfit in.
"In space" should not only be thought of as the
volume the piece will fill, nor just when space
is tight. "In space" should also be thought of in
terms of context. What space will it live in , and
with what other pieces.
just something to think about when designing
your next project - or not.
charlie b
J wrote:
> "charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>Steven Aimon, in his book "Design!" provides a useful definition
>>"Simply put, design is the arrangement of visual elements in space"
>>
>> Visual elements
>> arrangement
>> in space
> What a narrow viewpoint!
> Why only visual elements?
I think it's a very poor definition, as well. Suitable for woodwork, I
suppose.
But if I can cover up the tool marks a bit:
"Design is the arrangement of interacting elements in a functional
matrix toward a specific (but not necessarily singular) purpose."
I don't think art and craft are separable, either, or at least not
mutually exclusive. Sure, you can bang out a hundred thousand dowhats
according to a design template, and that's pure craft. But if the
design is especially well thought out to accomplish something in an
elegant way, you may find art in there.
Think of what the greeks thought of art. Or the classic european
meaning of the word. It's technology, accumulated knowledge.
Art as in Orange-blankets-waving-in-the-trees is moving away from a
necessary function into something only aesthetic, but you could argue
that the same creativity of thought is common to the elegant tool.
er
--
charlie b said:
>There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
Since this is already pretty long (not a criticism), and not many will
want to read it twice, although they probably _should_, I'm snipping
out all but my unsolicited observations.
>But, given each is about the same size and with the same number
>of drawers, it's the things that make one chest of drawers more
>attractive than another that we search for.
And occasionally achieve.
>Let's start with the "visual elements"
OK.
>There's a big box with a top, bottom, two sides - and a back
>you'll seldom see (unless your spouse is one who likes to
>re-arrange the furniture on a bi-annual or annual basis).
What furniture? You have furniture? I'm still planning ours...
Seriously, though, you immediately point out one limitation of
conventional wooddorking.
The Box.
Made from flat sticks and panels.
Yes, the Non-Organic, Conventional Box. Ornated, radiused, ogeed,
(are those words?), veneered, inlayed, but still at heart, The Box.
And a wide range of tools designed to work with..., you guessed it,
flat stock and panels that comprise... The Box.
>From the front we see only the front outline of the box, the
>edges of the top, bottom and sides. Inside the big box are a
>series of smaller boxes typically arranged in horizontal
>layers stacked on top of each other. There may or may not
>be visual elements separating the drawer boxes. There's
>likely drawer pulls and something to hold the big outside
>box off the floor.
More stinking boxes. And a stand to facilitate sweeping the
roaches out from under. (Yeah, I know.)
>Got you thinking yet?
Always...
>On to "arrangement".
OK.
>Assuming that there needs to be smaller boxes inside
>the bigger box, their arrangement is important.
>For the chest of drawers "box", lets assume you
>need six drawers, or better yet five. You could
>stack them on top of each other, and maybe graduate
>them. Or you could put two side by side - twice
>and a long one on the bottom. If you go with the
>side by side thing, what about the left one narrower
>than the other on the top row, reverse that for the
>second row and the one long one on the bottom.
>OR - two narrow ones flanking a wider one
>on the top and two the same width below. Or ...
More about freaking boxes. <g>
>You can also use an arrangement that surprises.
>Sam Maloof does a chair with arms, but the arms
>are too low to actually rest your arms on when
>seated. He used the "arms" as structural elements
>of his chair. The chair seat acts as one leg stretcher
>- and the "arms" as another. That re-arrangement
>of parts makes his chair interesting, even if you
>don't know why. Structurally it's just as strong
>as the traditional stretcher arrangement.
But if it's not comfortable or functional, it's superfluous eye candy.
>This can go on and on. Hell, there are four
>or five types of graduated drawers.
And they're all... The Box.
>So on to "in space"
OK.
>The one most often overlooked part of "design"
>is the "in space" part of design. When "space"
>IS considered it's usually because the "space"
>is limited. "Can't be any wider than ... in order
>to fit in that space."
Which is also, generally, The Box.
>But "in space" should also be thought of in
>terms of the context of the space the piece
>will occupy.
Balance...
> A big, overpowering piece
>in a small room can be a disaster, no matter
>how good the woodworking, the proportions,
>and even the wood.
So can a really ugly small piece...
>just something to think about when designing
>your next project - or not.
Yes, it is... Or not. <G>
Great post BTW.
Charlie, I'm really not trying to belittle your observations, which
are quite valid, but only point out that we generally think of
furniture as... The Box. Granted, changing this mindset is a
difficult thing to accomplish considering the medium and tools with
which it is worked, but integration of organic elements is something
that I find to be a challenge. You're not going to design a piece of
classic furniture "organically", but if you tried, then it wouldn't be
what it's master intended - it would be something new.
Or something like that...
Besides, I wanted to elicit a grin or two at your expense... <g>
Greg G.
Prefaces prior to responding:
(there seem to be some early risers n the group)
(I've got pretty thick skin so don't worry about
offending me or hurting my feelings with any
criticisms, though I'd prefer constructive criticism)
(elicited grins are always good - even at my expense)
Response:
So function should be added to the definition - it is furniture we're
talking about. How tightly the form must conform to the function
still has some wiggle room.
Maybe "function" is what distinguishes "art" from "craft"?
(he said, shit stick firmly in hand and stirring).
That being the case, all advertising illustrations/pictures/
images are craft?
"Art" is an arrangement of elements in space that has no function?
Yes, I have furniture. In the house it's mainly chinese - traditional
stuff, in rosewood, which I inherited. In the shop it's almost all
stuff I've built - "shop furniture". But if you've visited my
woodworking site, you know that I try "house furniture" ideas
and techniques when making my "shop furniture". The drawer
unit under the drill press has overlayed ,graduated, half
blind dovetailed, cherry drawer faces and a cheery top - with
lots of hand rubbed shellac. The small router bit cabinet has
coopered doors with knife hinges and the honey locust it's
made out of is french polished. Did I mention the sliding
dovetail construction of the carcase? Not braggging but
rather pointing out that making "shop furniture" is a
great place to try stuff you think you may want to use
in future "house furniture" projects. Trying something
new on expensive stock and for something that SWMBO
will have to approve before it gets into the house is a
bit risky and frought with anxiety and pressure. But
"shop furniture" - well, sinces it's JUST shop furniture...
Should you make an occasional mistake, it's a great time
to learn to turn them into "features".
While most furniture is basically a box or group of
boxes, some of the Art Nouveau stuff does a good job
of obscuring the underlying box pretty well - to my
eye.
How the box is de-boxified by curves, tapers, edge
treatments, overlays, carvings etc. is superfluous
if it's a) not functional and b) not comfortable (to
look at or use?)?
"Balance" was also introduced as a design criteria.
and I'm assuming the term is used in its broader
sense rather than just meaning that the piece won't
fall over by itself.
Adding "organically" to furniture design criteria
would be doing something new?
But perhaps The Wood can serve that purpose?
Wood selection, grain pattern selection AND
orientation (and maybe even joinery selection)
surely sets solid wood furniture making apart
from other design areas. A nice form, with
good proportions and details, that functions
properly - BUT has the grain running every
which way and conflicting with adjacent parts
ain't "good design" in my book.
And that's probably a topic to discuss at some
point. Since wood is expensive, we often try
and stretch it, shooting for "least waste" and
thus missing our real target. Cut lists are
for production shops. Having a bunch of
different types of wood with different grain
patterns may be the starting point, or at least
a major component of solid wood furniture
design.
got to play school bus driver for a neighor.
More comments, insights, suggestions, addendums
please
charlie b
Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> Stephen M wrote:
> >
> ...
> > Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time, not
> > space.
> ...
>
> Not according to our present understanding--spacetime is one entity...
> :)
If you've ever heard E. Power Biggs' perform live, were at
Radio City Music Hall when the giant Wurlitzer was there,
or been in a cathedral when a BIG pipe organ was playing,
you know that music can truly occupy a space - and then some.
(There was also a group called Blue Cheer, that, with the
help of HUGE Marshall amps and even HUGER speakers,
could occupy a large space AND nearly deafen its occupants.
But that gets into what differentiates music from noise ...)
As for furniture that has "no inside space" - perhaps they
have fewer design constraints. On the other hand, balance
becomes somewhat critical.
But, rather than go down the Art vs Crafts path, I'd like to
stick with design, and specifically furniture design. What
defines the term?
Is Kitchen furniture design a special subset of furniture
design? Perhaps how domininant "function"'s role in
the design criteria might be a major criteria. Maybe
kitchen furniture design is more difficult because it
is dominated by function -and yet SHE wants it to look
really nice. Often those two criteria can conflict, the
resolution arrived at through heated "discussions" and
some give and take.
Regarding paintings being 3-D but not very interesting
when viewed from the side - I've looked at some of
Picasso's oils from the side and up close it's still
interesting. But that's really not the topic I'd like
to pursue.
charlie b
ps - the spacetime - music for strings was great!
ps - as for shit stirring sticks - the Chinese provence
of Dung specializes in making the best ones on
the planet (see reference to Dung in my Pointy
Stick Compendium Project - first paragraph, right
after Pique de Point and Ponte Sticco.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/PointyStick/PSdesignsources.html
Stephen M wrote:
>
> > > Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time,
> not
> > > space.
> >
> > Whoa there....!! Music does occupy space. As stereo adds the third
> dimension, it
> > occupies space.
>
> Sure, in that same way that oil paintings are 3-dimensional, but the Mona
> Lisa would not look like much from the side.
Sound doesn't exist w/o space for the audio waves to fill, however. The
representation of a 3D object in a 2D projection is a reduction in one
dimension, but there's no parallel for audio.
Australopithecus scobis wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:29:47 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> > but there's no parallel for audio.
>
> Nah. The psychoacoustic boffins do some amazing things. Enhanced stereo
> comes to mind. Contrast that with a mono speaker.
Precisely my point...they couldn't that if audio waves were constrained
to 2D ...
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 00:24:14 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:10:28 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
>>that defines the term. Maybe a discussion of design should
>>start with a definition of the term.
>
>Antichaoticism.
trancendental meditation as a furniture making disclipine... : )
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:24:59 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "J"
<[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
>> that defines the term. Maybe a discussion of design should
>> start with a definition of the term. I found this one while
>> going through book reviews on WoodCentral
>>
>> Steven Aimon, in his book "Design!" provides a useful definition
>> "Simply put, design is the arrangement of visual elements in space"
>>
>> Visual elements
>> arrangement
>> in space
>
>What a narrow viewpoint!
>Why only visual elements?
He would have added tactile elements but he'd already polyed 'em.
Nuff said?
--
...the last thing I want is a toilet seat that pisses back at me...
--Wrecker Greg G on the www.CleanButt.com system
Stephen M said:
>>
>> Maybe "function" is what distinguishes "art" from "craft"?
>> (he said, shit stick firmly in hand and stirring).
>
>As much as I aspire to think of myself as a craftsman, I dislike the work
>craft. For me it elicits the image red and white yarn woven into a plastic
>matrix to form a really tacky Christmas themed tissuebox cover.
Well if you don't like the work, pick a new hobby. <g>
As for the misnomer, it does imply a "me too" class of creativity.
And my niece resents that last comment.
>> That being the case, all advertising illustrations/pictures/
>> images are craft?
Hardly - I think you made a typo.
>Avoiding the 'C'-word altogether:
I have to do that around here too - SWMBO resents it.
>> "Art" is an arrangement of elements in space that has no function?
>
>Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time, not
>space.
You haven't seen my record/CD racks, they take up ALL kinds of space.
OK, pretty bad... Sorry, I'll lay off now.
Greg G.
charlie b said:
>(there seem to be some early risers n the group)
Shoot, I'm left over from last night... <g>
>(I've got pretty thick skin so don't worry about
>offending me or hurting my feelings with any
>criticisms, though I'd prefer constructive criticism)
I'll try to keep it under control.
>(elicited grins are always good - even at my expense)
I'll be gentle, dear...
I've wanted to respond to this thread again, but haven't had time.
Hope it's still around when I do. But in the meanwhile, remember to
think outside The Box. That is what makes some Oriental and
Scandinavian designs so interesting.
Thanks,
Greg G.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Therefore, I beleive that function is an
> integral part of design not simply an asterisk and a footnote.
Agreed. Yet there is the movie poster.... as an example. In my mind, pure
design, but the function can't be as simple as selling a movie, can it?
I guess that's where the classifications come in:
Graphic design.
Furniture design.
Interior design.
Etc.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote:
> For me it elicits the image red and white yarn woven into a plastic
> matrix to form a really tacky Christmas themed tissuebox cover.
You really know how to ruin a guy's lunch.
Just for that, here's an image of a plastic wrought-iron-looking torch holder
coming at you.
( I was going to toss a velvet Elvis at you, but...truth is..I wish I had one.)
Art sub categories:
Kitsch (which can be really interesting).
Stuff so bad, you want it...(think a paint-by-numbers of dogs playing poker)
Oh No, they're back-kinda art...(think lava lamp)
....I'm still trying to trump the red & white tissue box cover to no
avail...the image is stuck..like a bad theme song.
Let's try the original Flintstones theme. The original, not the B-52 version,
because that's cool.
In article <[email protected]>,
Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stephen M wrote:
> >
> ...
> > Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time, not
> > space.
> ...
>
> Not according to our present understanding--spacetime is one entity...
> :)
Maybe he's talking about music written only for strings?
In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
> >
> >Maybe he's talking about music written only for strings?
>
>
> That would be String Theory.
>
>
That's what I had on the brane when I wrote that.
In article <[email protected]>, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Visual elements
> arrangement
> in space
.......to perform a function.
Functionality, IMHO, has to be a part of 'design', otherwise it would be called
art? I subscribe to the 'form follows function' school of design.
Rob is big on Bauhaus.
just my 2 centimes
In article <[email protected]>,
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time, not
> space.
Whoa there....!! Music does occupy space. As stereo adds the third dimension, it
occupies space. (..and I'm not implying that the shape of the oracle doesn't add
its own minimal phase-shift in order to allow to hear sounds 'from
behind'....but that's for another day.)
*Waves at charlie* "I brought my own shit-covered stick."
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, charlie b
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Visual elements
> > arrangement
> > in space
>
> .......to perform a function.
>
> Functionality, IMHO, has to be a part of 'design', otherwise it would be
called
> art? I subscribe to the 'form follows function' school of design.
> Rob is big on Bauhaus.
>
> just my 2 centimes
I was thinking the same But let me add to that one more thought:
Without function, the first three describe "art". Design is not normally a
word used to describe pure "art". Therefore, I beleive that function is an
integral part of design not simply an asterisk and a footnote.
-Steve
> > Therefore, I beleive that function is an
> > integral part of design not simply an asterisk and a footnote.
>
> Agreed. Yet there is the movie poster.... as an example. In my mind, pure
> design, but the function can't be as simple as selling a movie, can it?
> An example of Graphic design.
IMHO design *is* the marriage of form and function. Some people collect
movie posters, frame tham and hang them on a wall. In that context, I would
argue that it is simply art. I think few would argue that the poster's
effectiveness at selling the movie would have any influence over their
desire to hang it on their wall.
I guess buy extension, pure art is form whose function is none other than
presentation of the form itself.
-Steve
>
> Maybe "function" is what distinguishes "art" from "craft"?
> (he said, shit stick firmly in hand and stirring).
As much as I aspire to think of myself as a craftsman, I dislike the work
craft. For me it elicits the image red and white yarn woven into a plastic
matrix to form a really tacky Christmas themed tissuebox cover.
> That being the case, all advertising illustrations/pictures/
> images are craft?
>
Avoiding the 'C'-word altogether:
Math is to Engineering as Art is to graphic design
> "Art" is an arrangement of elements in space that has no function?
Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time, not
space.
>
> While most furniture is basically a box or group of
> boxes, some of the Art Nouveau stuff does a good job
> of obscuring the underlying box pretty well - to my
> eye.
I'll buy that for furniture with interior space. A candlestand (pedistal
table), hat rack or a chair have exclusively exterior space. That is, that
which they support/hold/display, is on/under/outside of the structure.
> > Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time,
not
> > space.
>
> Whoa there....!! Music does occupy space. As stereo adds the third
dimension, it
> occupies space.
Sure, in that same way that oil paintings are 3-dimensional, but the Mona
Lisa would not look like much from the side.
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
> that defines the term. Maybe a discussion of design should
> start with a definition of the term. I found this one while
> going through book reviews on WoodCentral
>
> Steven Aimon, in his book "Design!" provides a useful definition
> "Simply put, design is the arrangement of visual elements in space"
>
> Visual elements
> arrangement
> in space
What a narrow viewpoint!
Why only visual elements?
-j
Boy I guess I really misspoke when I said that music does not occupy space.
I should know better, I have personally sat in front of the mixing board
adjusting the stereo pan of each track.
Dragging this back onto topic a bit.... a songwriter "designing" his or her
"art" isn't particularly concerned (unless, maybe you're Pink Floyd
producing a live show) with spacial sound placement.
That's sort of like saying that the choosing Waterlox vs Minwax wipe-on poly
is a design decision.
In the strictest sense, it is but it's pretty minor.
-Steve
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Australopithecus scobis wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:29:47 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:
> >
> > > but there's no parallel for audio.
> >
> > Nah. The psychoacoustic boffins do some amazing things. Enhanced stereo
> > comes to mind. Contrast that with a mono speaker.
>
> Precisely my point...they couldn't that if audio waves were constrained
> to 2D ...
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:10:51 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 00:24:14 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:10:28 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
>>>that defines the term. Maybe a discussion of design should
>>>start with a definition of the term.
>>
>>Antichaoticism.
>
>trancendental meditation as a furniture making disclipine... : )
Actually, Bridge, I meant it to be a one word response to the call for
definition.
I think that the intent to design is the intent to manage chaos.
Certainly there have to be parameters that will be applied.
But, I figure that the general intent of design is to take us out of
the chaotic world of experience, and into the world of managed
priorities.
The priorities may be multivalent, and the valences would have
assigned values.
If I want to design a kitchen, I would assign a higher priority to
function, if I were designing for a cook - but I have designed
kitchens for people who would never do more than boil water in the
space.
These were Show kitchens, intended to impress their fellows - I
designed them to look good, following the glossy magazine crap that
was currently purveyed in the designer level rags.
If someone wanted a wall to encompass their stereo and TV, I would try
to manage the chaos according to their needs.
Let's take this to a different level.
Let's say that you are a GUI designer.
You have a given level of functionality that you must present.
It really needs to be graded according to importance.
This gradation must be available on a graphic level.
The user's relationship to the object must be intuitive.
Oh, and for a minute I didn't think that I was talking about
furniture.
Silly me.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:10:28 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:
>There have been many threads on Design but I've not seen one
>that defines the term. Maybe a discussion of design should
>start with a definition of the term.
Antichaoticism.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:20:29 -0800, Enoch Root <[email protected]>
wrote:
>J wrote:
>> "charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>Steven Aimon, in his book "Design!" provides a useful definition
>>>"Simply put, design is the arrangement of visual elements in space"
>>>
>>> Visual elements
>>> arrangement
>>> in space
>
>> What a narrow viewpoint!
>> Why only visual elements?
>
>I think it's a very poor definition, as well. Suitable for woodwork, I
>suppose.
>
>But if I can cover up the tool marks a bit:
>
>"Design is the arrangement of interacting elements in a functional
>matrix toward a specific (but not necessarily singular) purpose."
a clever stringing together of words, but functionally bullshit.
"the arrangement of elements" is succint, to the point and clear. it's
what design is all about.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:20:29 -0800, Enoch Root <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>>"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> Visual elements
>>>> arrangement
>>>> in space
>>"Design is the arrangement of interacting elements in a functional
>>matrix toward a specific (but not necessarily singular) purpose."
> "the arrangement of elements" is succint, to the point and clear. it's
> what design is all about.
I think "interacting" is necessary to this. Think of children's blocks:
you can arrange them all sorts of different ways (ooh, that calculation
would have an answer much larger than 42) but it is the way they work
together to affect some goal that determines whether you have a genius
on your hands...
"Purpose" is a little less definite (or meaningful?), as you can have
the most abstract things in mind as you design...
er
--
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:10:28 -0800, charlie b wrote:
> "In space" should not only be thought of as the
> volume the piece will fill, nor just when space
> is tight. "In space" should also be thought of in
> terms of context. What space will it live in , and
> with what other pieces.
Don't forget the negative spaces. One can do subtle things with the space
not occupied by the wood.
[snipping from different posts:]
>Maybe "function" is what distinguishes "art" from "craft"?
"Graphic Design" used to be called "business art." (Still is, as long as
there aren't any business artists around to poke you in the eye with a
stylus.)
>"Art" is an arrangement of elements in space that has no function?
Post-Modern crap, possibly. Real art most certainly does have a function;
it's just not tangible.
>Having a bunch of
>different types of wood with different grain
>patterns may be the starting point, or at least
>a major component of solid wood furniture
>design.
Milwaukee Art Museum had an Arts&Crafts exhibition recently. (Maybe
the exhibit is showing elsewhere now?) One piece was a Finnish sideboard
of birch, alder and pearwood. It was stained with greens and golds. The
piece was large, yet didn't overpower because of the grain and color
variations. Sure, it was a Box, but the verticals were curved to break the
boxiness.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:50:26 -0500, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Stephen M wrote:
>> >
>> ...
>> > Perhaps that is too restictive. Is not music art? Music occupies time, not
>> > space.
>> ...
>>
>> Not according to our present understanding--spacetime is one entity...
>> :)
>
>Maybe he's talking about music written only for strings?
That would be String Theory.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)